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FFARR from Polished? Seeking answers from FFARR players

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Comments

  • steusssteuss Libertyville, ILPosts: 129Member Uncommon

    I think you wasted your time writing this with your pedantic tone, combatitive title, and ridiculous intro.

     

    In short, you seem angry about FATEs, but are okay with everything else. I'm irritated I spent the time to read your drivel and am only bolstered by the fact I can block you.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon

    Soooo. Let me get this straight... You played the game for 16 hours during open beta? And you're ready to make all these observations from that kinda play time? Most of the comments you make on "polish" have nothing to do with what is actually considered polish. Grindy? Since when does that have anything to do with polish? Engaging lore? Polish? This along with some other categories you list are pure opinion and personal preference. 

     

    You wanted to reach out to ARR players, so that is why I'm responding. I think that making a "sincere perspective" of a game with so little play time under your belt is straight up wrong. Especially when you chose to compare it directly to a game you have obviously played for long periods of time. 

     

    I mean really... think about it. 9 years of good times conjuring up images of late night raids, laughs on vent, good friends vs. a game you played for 16 hours with no one. Fair? Nope. Ridiculous? Yup. 

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shadow9d9

    How anyone could play wow for 9 years is staggering.. 5 dungeons to repeat over and over and some raids(the whole idea behind it and execution is absolutely awful imo)... to be in the same walled off tiny zoned world, with characters that can barely maneuver around a walled off environment... shiver... 

    Yeah, that does sound horrible and I couldn't imagine anyone playing that for 9 years.

    Good thing that's nothing like WoW. Have you ever played WoW?

    5 dungeons? Vanilla alone had 20 dungeons.

    +16 from BC

    +15 WotLK

    +14 Cata

    +9 MoP +13 scenarios (which hasn't reached the end and they usually add another 3-4 dungeons in the last major patch)

    So, if by 5 dungeons, you meant 74 dungeons, then yes I agree. No I did not count raids or sceanrios as dungeons.

    Walled off tiny zoned world? Where are the walls? Halfway in the middle of the ocean? Game world is pretty seamless save for travel to other continents.

    Bad raid execution? WoW probably has the best raids on the market, it has 36 total atm (no LFR doesn't count - that's introductory content for non-raiders) Normal and Heroic modes are still excellent and the encounters are more complex than ever.

     

    So yeah, what you described is totally not worth playing for 9 years. But it's not WoW.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
     

    I made it even more clear that my OP was not a review of the game. I thought I also made it clear why I picked the topics to weigh my opinions on.

    Yes, I admit I threw in TSW out of nowhere. I do this sort of thing a lot. After playing as many MMORPGs as I have for as long as I have I find odd connections out of nowhere that just spontaneously manifest.

    Even as I was grinding through hecklar sessions I felt that it was cheating but I had no fear of being banned. So,in that light I agree that I probably cast the FATEs grinding into a darker light than it deserved. Perhaps it's the claims of hordes of campers inside the cities waiting for the next FATEs pop that makes this behavior such an eyesore for me. If it were contained out in the wilderness I would not be belly-aching so much.

    I have been playing from beta until this morning.. and I have never seen this. It's clear you only played the game for a very short amount of time. The problem with you researching the game more then you played the game is that the internet is for complaining. Most of the reviews out there are from people that spent less time then you in game, and the forums are full of complainers. You need to play the game for longer then 16 hours to get a feel for it. What level did you attain might I ask?

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by shadow9d9

    How anyone could play wow for 9 years is staggering.. 5 dungeons to repeat over and over and some raids(the whole idea behind it and execution is absolutely awful imo)... to be in the same walled off tiny zoned world, with characters that can barely maneuver around a walled off environment... shiver... 

    Yeah, that does sound horrible and I couldn't imagine anyone playing that for 9 years.

    Good thing that's nothing like WoW. Have you ever played WoW?

    5 dungeons? Vanilla alone had 20 dungeons.

    +16 from BC

    +15 WotLK

    +14 Cata

    +9 MoP +13 scenarios (which hasn't reached the end and they usually add another 3-4 dungeons in the last major patch)

    So, if by 5 dungeons, you meant 74 dungeons, then yes I agree. No I did not count raids or sceanrios as dungeons.

    Walled off tiny zoned world? Where are the walls? Halfway in the middle of the ocean? Game world is pretty seamless save for travel to other continents.

    Bad raid execution? WoW probably has the best raids on the market, it has 36 total atm (no LFR doesn't count - that's introductory content for non-raiders) Normal and Heroic modes are still excellent and the encounters are more complex than ever.

     

    So yeah, what you described is totally not worth playing for 9 years. But it's not WoW.

    Agreed. I'm not playing WoW currently, but I love it. I always will. I always go back to it regardless of what I just stopped playing LOL. There is TONS of content and to say there isn't is just ridiculous. 

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

  • redo123redo123 Larryberg, IAPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lucrecia

     I made a longer response that got ate by a miss-click so I'll just simply state: There are a lot of elements that FFXIV excels but these elements are not as important to me.

    Allow me to clarify: This was a selfish post. Perhaps this thread will help someone in the same boat as I so that they can decide as well. Otherwise, this was an outreach to the FFARR players to state my case of what is important to me; how I see World of Warcraft in it's current state; how I perceive FFARR to be in its current state.

    It does matter. If this was a review I would be right there with you raising up my cardboard sign with the scrawling  'WTF OP!?!'. It does matter.

    No one should ever fault you for saying WoW is still better than XIV. And I am sure you have your reasons and they are valid to you. But it's in the presentation...that is of course if you want to share why you feel as you do (Which you have done here) but you have to present your case squarely. This I don't feel you have done.

    It's like trying to say Chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla because vanilla doesn't have any fruity flavors like Strawberry does.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by timeraider

    Not having any problems with grindyness.. at the first playthrough you dont need to do ANYTHING but quests and will never have to grind... looking at how me and some guildmembers went you can almost lvl 2 classes to 50 without having to grind alot

     

    and innovation.. you mean the flashy things that the worst mmo's use to attract people to their game? not a single game has had a USEFULL innovation since about the first mmo ever... its always useless addition that attracts people to their game which they then leave 1 month after because they notice how bad it is. I prefer a normal mmo based on solid gameplay instead of 500 useless additional features

    No...I mean the definition of innovative. What you described are gimmicks.
    For better or worse World of Warcraft did revolutionize how we play MMORPGs. Their methods have been copied to newer MMO's ad nauseum. This is a commonly agreed upon fact (and complaint) by a majority of the community.

     

    Yes..

     

    They also copied and refined from other games and still do that to this day. They were certainly more innovating in 2004-2007 than they are in present.

  • redo123redo123 Larryberg, IAPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by timeraider

    Not having any problems with grindyness.. at the first playthrough you dont need to do ANYTHING but quests and will never have to grind... looking at how me and some guildmembers went you can almost lvl 2 classes to 50 without having to grind alot

     

    and innovation.. you mean the flashy things that the worst mmo's use to attract people to their game? not a single game has had a USEFULL innovation since about the first mmo ever... its always useless addition that attracts people to their game which they then leave 1 month after because they notice how bad it is. I prefer a normal mmo based on solid gameplay instead of 500 useless additional features

    No...I mean the definition of innovative. What you described are gimmicks.
    For better or worse World of Warcraft did revolutionize how we play MMORPGs. Their methods have been copied to newer MMO's ad nauseum. This is a commonly agreed upon fact (and complaint) by a majority of the community.

     

    Yes..

     

    They also copied and refined from other games and still do that to this day. They were certainly more innovating in 2004-2007 than they are in present.

    Games were more innovative prior to 2004.  Before wow took EQ merged it with DAOC pvp, and used Anarchy onlines style of instancing for dungeons.  Hell they even took anarchy onlines idea of dynamic events (was alien invasions back then) and made it a staple of games (wow didn't do that though)

    Ever since then we have been innovating the same thing over and over.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

  • redo123redo123 Larryberg, IAPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

    You are clearly preaching, and becoming very defensive regarding your opinion.

    Your post isn't asking questions, its dictating your point of view in a flawed form of review.  The fact that you are arguning with anyone who responds makes it clear you are not here for answers as you put it but something else.

    All im saying is that you would probably have people high fiving you and agreeing with you over on the wow forums, rather than having to argue with people responding to you here.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Lucrecia

     I made a longer response that got ate by a miss-click so I'll just simply state: There are a lot of elements that FFXIV excels but these elements are not as important to me.

    Allow me to clarify: This was a selfish post. Perhaps this thread will help someone in the same boat as I so that they can decide as well. Otherwise, this was an outreach to the FFARR players to state my case of what is important to me; how I see World of Warcraft in it's current state; how I perceive FFARR to be in its current state.

    It does matter. If this was a review I would be right there with you raising up my cardboard sign with the scrawling  'WTF OP!?!'. It does matter.

    No one should ever fault you for saying WoW is still better than XIV. And I am sure you have your reasons and they are valid to you. But it's in the presentation...that is of course if you want to share why you feel as you do (Which you have done here) but you have to present your case squarely. This I don't feel you have done.

    It's like trying to say Chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla because vanilla doesn't have any fruity flavors like Strawberry does.

    I present my opinions so that the reader can better understand what is important to me and what I like and dislike about both games. I said this was a selfish post as I want to know from FFARR if my observations are incorrect. Helpful responses have been few and far between. Others have been needlessly very offended by and defensive of FFARR. Others have been very defensive or offensive with World of Warcraft. Neither are desired by me. I think it was the title that is off putting so I am going to go change that right now.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

    You are clearly preaching, and becoming very defensive regarding your opinion.

    Your post isn't asking questions, its dictating your point of view in a flawed form of review.  The fact that you are arguning with anyone who responds makes it clear you are not here for answers as you put it but something else.

    All im saying is that you would probably have people high fiving you and agreeing with you over on the wow forums, rather than having to argue with people responding to you here.

    Did you read every post here? If you did you would see that it is you and few others I am having any "arguments" with. There are some that I get into a nice little discussion with. At this point I think it is you with the bias.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shadow9d9
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by grapevine
    WoW didn't bring any of those things you mention in (1).  Other MMOs had them prior. 

    Yes, I agree. Don't tell me I didn't raid in EQ1. XD I smacked Lady Vox around with the best of them! <3

    But, it did bring:

     

    "Instancing, LFR, LFG tool with auto sign up, (mostly) seamless world, quest tracking (even though, yes, it was a rip from a popular addon, they adopted it and refined it), gathering nodes, flight paths, intuitive and smart tradeskill interface, addon inclusion, and many variety of boss fight mechanics that were never seen before but are replicated in newer titles."

     

    ...and likely more stuff I forgot to mention.

    Seamless world?  It is a world of walled off tiny zones where you could walk from one to another through tiny pathed areas.... Asheron's Call from 5+ years before had an entire zoneless world about 1000x the size of wow, in which you could go anywhere you'd like and jump anywhere/run anywhere, as long as your abilities are high enough.  

     

    Nevermind

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

    You are clearly preaching, and becoming very defensive regarding your opinion.

    Your post isn't asking questions, its dictating your point of view in a flawed form of review.  The fact that you are arguning with anyone who responds makes it clear you are not here for answers as you put it but something else.

    All im saying is that you would probably have people high fiving you and agreeing with you over on the wow forums, rather than having to argue with people responding to you here.

    Also..I am not seeking /h5's. I've already revealed what I am searching for. I do not need people to agree with me. I need people to disagree with me for the right reasons.

    The wrong reasons are:

    -Not enough experience in the game (counter-intuitive for the purpose of this post as I am searching for reasons to purchase this game and place WoW aside for good)

    -Bias (If this was an actual review then this criticism would bear some weight. But it's not. How can I be bias when I am asking for my observations to be proven wrong and corrected in a respectful manner?)

    -Other obvious reasons that do not contribute to the intended purpose of this thread.

  • redo123redo123 Larryberg, IAPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

    You are clearly preaching, and becoming very defensive regarding your opinion.

    Your post isn't asking questions, its dictating your point of view in a flawed form of review.  The fact that you are arguning with anyone who responds makes it clear you are not here for answers as you put it but something else.

    All im saying is that you would probably have people high fiving you and agreeing with you over on the wow forums, rather than having to argue with people responding to you here.

    Also..I am not seeking /h5's. I've already revealed what I am searching for. I do not need people to agree with me. I need people to disagree with me for the right reasons.

    The wrong reasons are:

    -Not enough experience in the game (counter-intuitive for the purpose of this post as I am searching for reasons to purchase this game and place WoW aside for good)

    -Bias (If this was an actual review then this criticism would bear some weight. But it's not. How can I be bias when I am asking for my observations to be proven wrong and corrected in a respectful manner?)

    -Other obvious reasons that do not contribute to the intended purpose of this thread.

    Well saying all that stuff is one thing, when you start to argue and get defensive over your point of view it becomes clear what your intentions are, and those intentions appear to be the exact opposite as what you have stated here.

     

    Its pretty obvious to be honest.  Which is fine if you want to do this...just at least be honest with yourself and stop pretending this was some noble quest for information.  I mean the first post wasn't asking questions, it was preaching one game as better than the other.  The thread title, does nothing but preach one game over another.

    No one is buying your white knight quest just for others opinions, especially when you go on the offensive when people do.

    This really is nothing more than a poorly veiled troll thread.  That's fine, you like wow, don't like this game.  Time to move on, unless you want to keep arguing with people who like the game...which it seems is what you want here.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by redo123
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by evilized

    your assertion that wow is in any way innovative is completely wrong. i honestly can't think of anything wow did that was "new" or innovative over the years since it released in 2004. 

     

    flight paths - daoc had horse routes on release

    instances - anarchy online beat wow on this one

    raids - name an mmo made before 2004 and more than likely it had raids in it, bigger and meaner than anything in wow

    skill trees - taken from diablo 2 and eq's alternate advancement system

    player mounts - ultima online

    large seamless world (save changing continents and dungeons) - ultima online and anarchy online to a degree

    pvp - almost every mmo up to 2004 had pvp in one form or another

     

     

    now for final fantasy arr

     

    is anything in the game unique? 

    the only thing i can think of is the single character, every class system. i can't think of any other mainstream mmo's currently on the market that offer something like this. 

     

    everything else is pretty cut and dry themepark fare.

     

     

    my point is, don't tout wow as some great and innovative product when it isn't. the only thing that made the game what it is today is blizzard's ability to market their name to appeal to  previously untapped demographics and a good bit of luck that when they decided to release, everybody was looking for something a little less "hardcore" than the typical mmo of the time. 

    I am not touting WoW. I am not promoting WoW. I am not saying anyone should play WoW. Your criticism of my post is simply misguided. I am giving my personal opinion of WoW. I said this in the very begining. To me it was innovative. To a lot of people it was innovative. It was how they did things. Sure there were raids in many predecessors but the boss mechanics were innovative.

     

    For the record- Anarchy Online WAS NOT SEAMLESS!  You are the second person to make this false statement and it is mind boggling.

    As I said, the had some huge zones but there was a lot of zoning!

    Yunni (Solitus Adventurer) Angellis (Opi-Fex Shade) RK-1  ~Society of Salvation~

    Im telling you that this thread would have done more in the wow forums.

    You are preaching to the wrong crowd here.  People here can go play WOW if they want, and most have.

    I think you completely miss the reason why people are not playing that game here.

    Also I don't think you know what the term polished actually means, however I would agree that a 10 year old game would have more polish than a two week old game.  FFXIV is very polished tough. 

     

    It really just seems this thread was designed to spark an argument.  I don't think a single person is going to read your post, unsub to FFXIV and go sub to WOW.  Which seems to be the goal here.

    No. I am not preaching. I've stated this repeatedly in the begining and throughout this thread that I am searching for answers from FFARR players. How would that help me in the WoW forums?

    You are clearly preaching, and becoming very defensive regarding your opinion.

    Your post isn't asking questions, its dictating your point of view in a flawed form of review.  The fact that you are arguning with anyone who responds makes it clear you are not here for answers as you put it but something else.

    All im saying is that you would probably have people high fiving you and agreeing with you over on the wow forums, rather than having to argue with people responding to you here.

    Also..I am not seeking /h5's. I've already revealed what I am searching for. I do not need people to agree with me. I need people to disagree with me for the right reasons.

    The wrong reasons are:

    -Not enough experience in the game (counter-intuitive for the purpose of this post as I am searching for reasons to purchase this game and place WoW aside for good)

    -Bias (If this was an actual review then this criticism would bear some weight. But it's not. How can I be bias when I am asking for my observations to be proven wrong and corrected in a respectful manner?)

    -Other obvious reasons that do not contribute to the intended purpose of this thread.

    Well saying all that stuff is one thing, when you start to argue and get defensive over your point of view it becomes clear what your intentions are, and those intentions appear to be the exact opposite as what you have stated here.

     

    Its pretty obvious to be honest.  Which is fine if you want to do this...just at least be honest with yourself and stop pretending this was some noble quest for information.  I mean the first post wasn't asking questions, it was preaching one game as better than the other.  The thread title, does nothing but preach one game over another.

    No one is buying your white knight quest just for others opinions, especially when you go on the offensive when people do.

    This really is nothing more than a poorly veiled troll thread.  That's fine, you like wow, don't like this game.  Time to move on, unless you want to keep arguing with people who like the game...which it seems is what you want here.

    I've changed the title 3 times now. The first time was "FFARR From Polished" changed to "FFARR From Polished: Guess I'm sticking to World of Warcraft" as sort of a warning that this contains World of Warcraft points of view. Some people need that warning because there are those who are vehemently against the game. I changed it again and I think it speaks more clearly of my intentions and just left the warning in the disclaimer.

     

    In what way have I argued something that falls in line with your claim here? Sure..I defend my point of views when they are attacked in such a way that a responder says "Those are just your points of views"....

     

    Yes....they are. And I will defend myself and my ability to have my points of views while discussing them with people who consider them (but don't necessarily agree with them) and offer their counter or support or respectful corrections.

    Your replies are just pulling this thread off in a tangent that is not in line with the original purpose of this thread which I have stated time and time again. This will be my final response on this matter.

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member

    I added a bit more in the beginning of my OP to better clearly define my intentions. I hope it works to clear up some of this confusion.

    "In light of that, what I am seeking are counters and corrections that might offer me a better perspective beyond what I already know (or think I know) . Why don't I just go buy the game and decide on my own? Good question. Well, for personal reasons that,strangely enough, do not involve money. I have to know, before purchasing this game, to the best of my ability, that this game will keep me and I will not drop it in the matter of months to return to World of Warcraft. This is essential. It is a personal (perhaps selfish) quest and if you are looking to help me decide for or against playing FFARR then I would appreciate this very much. I am not seeking criticisms of how I present my case. As stated, these are opinions very personal to myself that should only be seen as a tool to help you examine some of my stronger preferences."

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member
    Originally posted by timeraider

    Not having any problems with grindyness.. at the first playthrough you dont need to do ANYTHING but quests and will never have to grind... looking at how me and some guildmembers went you can almost lvl 2 classes to 50 without having to grind alot

     

    and innovation.. you mean the flashy things that the worst mmo's use to attract people to their game? not a single game has had a USEFULL innovation since about the first mmo ever... its always useless addition that attracts people to their game which they then leave 1 month after because they notice how bad it is. I prefer a normal mmo based on solid gameplay instead of 500 useless additional features

    Yep

    The "Check out all the COOL things we are putting/trying to do in our MMO" Followed by CGI hype trailers :)

    There is really not much inovation to be had, as most of it has been done. Now is the time to use what we have and apply it in a fun and engaging manner. A good example, at least from my persepctive are FPS, they all basicly have the same/similar mechanice IE Left Mouse Button:Fire Main Weapon, R: Reload, G/F/Right Mouse Button: Throw grenade, etc...but yet the CoD, and BF games are still very successful because of good GAME design.

  • Dagon13Dagon13 Posts: 269Member Uncommon

     

    Sorry I had to cut short since I ran out of time.  Bottom line is that your "review" is fair although I disagree on some points.

     

    High production quality: Yes. However the long GCD makes what could be responsive combat feel clunky. To my knowledge this problem is lessened in some way with decreasing the GCD through points or skill unlocks of some sort. The other issue that makes a strike against this game are all the bloody invisible walls I ran into. If you peeked at my World of Warcraft achievements you would see that exploration is sort of 'my thing'. If I see a dock that goes into beautifully pristine waters I am going to try and dive in. FFARR crafted a beautiful world with borders that are placed in heart wrenching ways.

    GCD should not be linked to production quality.  The current GCD was a conscious decision made by the development team and one that was explained during the beta phases.  It is a core mechanic to their combat system with a solid purpose.  You may not enjoy it, but that does not impact production quality.

    I absolutely appreciate your feelings regarding the borders.  I often find the first thing I do in many areas is test the limitations of exploration.  This was most heart wrenching for me when I could not enter a cave outside Ul'dah because it had a waist high blockade in the way.  My experience was marginally better than FFXI, atleast we can jump over fences.  I don't know if this should be consider in production quality, but regardless they deserve a demerit for this.  

    Non-grindy: No. FATEs camping. Oh yes, I have heard the notorious behavior and it is not fun Yoshida. In the recent interview on MMORPG.com he stated "for now, they are allowing players to have fun with it and that they are confident the issue will solve itself as the game matures." This has been the most niave and/or lazy response I have heard uttered by a game director ever. I am sure they are out there (Oh wait..Jennifer Hepler) but this is inexcusable. People are not having fun doing them. They are doing them because they feel they have to because others are doing them and they want to keep their edge and not fall behind. Do you have to do them? No. Should you defend Yoshida's decision based on this irrelevant question? No!  That's madness!

     I defend Yoshida's decision on the basis that you attack my character for doing so.  Yoshida is absolutely correct to assume a natural resolution to the perceived problem.  Will it be a good resolution?  Maybe not, but there will be one!

    Players make a conscious choice to participate in these activities because they enjoy it, because they believe they are in direct competition with other players to "get ahead", or for any other reason they may have dreamed up.  Let them grind their fates, if you take that away they'll just find the next activity to exploit.

    Myself?  I have put days worth of hours into this game already and at no single point have i perceived myself as grinding.  My experiences thus far lead me to give this category a favorable rating.

     

    Smooth performance: Yes. Ignoring the server issues that some are experiencing that I am semi-confident will get under control either by maintenance or player intervention, this game runs very well. In OB I had my settings at ultra and then some (1980x1020) and nay came a time that I dropped below 60 FPS despite my expectations. Even wading through a sea of people, the game kept being a champ through it all. This will eventually get a Yes vote should/when the servers stabilize.

    Absolutely agree.  The game performs once you can get in.

    A clear artistic direction: Yes. It looks like Final Fantasy. Though I cringe at some of the character customization options (namely the face tattoos), the designers have a very clear artistic direction and it appeals to and is understood by a lot of people.

    Anti-exploitative gameplay: No. The FATEs camping is exploitative as surely everyone can agree that any sane game designer would never intend for you to experience their game in such a manner. AFK camping is exploiting the fact you won't get kicked and you won't have to suffer the login issues others are having and in doing so inflames those issues. It could be forgiven if change was on the horizon but any such hope is lost with these words:"The team is willing to look into an AFK kick or queue system, but as of this moment, they are devoting 100% of their efforts towards getting the aforementioned additional servers and server changes implemented this week." It doesn't take much though to realize the backwards method they are using. An AFK kick system should have been featured on day 1.  It is an MMORPG standard and to neglect it is madness.

     

    I won't regurgitate my input on FATEs, but you are absolutely correct on the AFK situation.  While I appreciate their decision to focus on implementing the new hardware, AFK systems are base functionality for any software system relying on remote resources.   Not only is it an asset for the players, it's a means for the company to protect it's own interests.  I have not encountered any feature of the game that requires a player to stay logged in while AFK, thus there is no excuse for not having such a basic piece of functionality.

     

    Engaging Lore: Yes. However it is inundated with forgettable names. That isn't the major problem though. There is very little tie in with most of the quests (the side quests) to the over arching plot. In The Secret World, when you do something, even a side mission, it tied in to the theme and/or current story of the area. The same quality can be found in World of Warcraft.

    This quality is very much present in FFARR.  Expecting every single side quest to be directly related to the main story is creating the expectation that the world revolves around you.  This is a method of developing a world outside of current events and lends itself well to engaging lore.  What would you say about the Elder Scrolls series?  Does that game's lore suffer because the quests do not always tie into an overarching story?

    Innovative concepts: No. Final Fantasy XIV brings nothing new to the MMORPG genre so most of the desire to play this game is based on Final Fantasy IP loyalty which is understandable. It is what kept STO afloat until they worked some improvements into their game so perhaps FFARR will receive similar treatment from their developers and designers. For some, this is a refreshing step backwards into what they perceive to be old school (however much I disagree with those sentiments because there are so many new school elements to this game). Perhaps the slow GCD can be considered innovative as it does give the Final Fantasy combat feel but it ends up being more of a hindrance to my enjoyment than a boon to nostalgia. The class system in FFARR is similar in spirit to that of it's forebearer so as much as I want to count that as innovative, it is not. You might even say EvE has a multi class system that is naturally featured in their sandbox style of character progression. The takeaway from this is: Nothing feels new or innovating.

    I agree that the game is not innovative, however I disagree with your assessment of what this means for the player base.  I did not choose to play this game on the basis of IP alone.  Sure it influenced my decision, but the primary reason I chose to play it was because it WAS NOT INNOVATIVE.  When I signed up for this game I got exactly what I expected.

     

  • LostarLostar Johnstown, PAPosts: 901Member
    Originally posted by Dagon13

     

    Your response on side quests and how their lack of connection to the lore does make sense. I suppose it does add a layer of immersion since similar layers can be found in the real world. Do they get anymore fun beyond 20 though? I got to 20 in OB and most of the side missions, though well executed, did not once give me a "Oh, that's clever" reaction unlike the revamp of the low level quests in WoW (ex. Silverpine Forset). I am looking for a healthy mixture of expected with nice surprises thrown in aside from the main story mission.

     

    Is the above video pretty dead on? That is what worries me. That I am basing my opinions on something that does pass with time and leveling just a touch more. Because I never got to go beyond what essentially was still the tutorial. I have to say, the way they did tradeskills is something I would have loved to see in World of Warcraft years ago and I am glad to see it here. I would get to look that part as a fisher, miner, herbalist...

     

    Pretty neat.

     

    Also: Does the main story mission ever branch out even in a superficial way? Just something so that I feel like my character put in their personal twist.

  • Dagon13Dagon13 Posts: 269Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lucrecia
    Originally posted by Dagon13

     

    Your response on side quests and how their lack of connection to the lore does make sense. I suppose it does add a layer of immersion since similar layers can be found in the real world. Do they get anymore fun beyond 20 though? I got to 20 in OB and most of the side missions, though well executed, did not once give me a "Oh, that's clever" reaction unlike the revamp of the low level quests in WoW (ex. Silverpine Forset). I am looking for a healthy mixture of expected with nice surprises thrown in aside from the main story mission.

     

    Is the above video pretty dead on? That is what worries me. That I am basing my opinions on something that does pass with time and leveling just a touch more. Because I never got to go beyond what essentially was still the tutorial. I have to say, the way they did tradeskills is something I would have loved to see in World of Warcraft years ago and I am glad to see it here. I would get to look that part as a fisher, miner, herbalist...

     

    Pretty neat.

     

    Also: Does the main story mission ever branch out even in a superficial way? Just something so that I feel like my character put in their personal twist.

    If I focus more on the "engaging" aspect of the side quests I would have to say they definitely fall short in comparison to WoW.  While I don't personally find issue with what FFARR has in terms of side quests, I don't think anyone that appreciates what WoW offers would disagree with you.

    I'm going to be frank here.  I believe that FFARR is a boring game.  But this is not a problem for me, in fact, it's exactly what I am looking for.  What games like GW2 make me realize is that I don't want an in your face, hack n slash adventure where I shape mountains with every swing of my sword.  I don't want content vomited all over my screen, tearing me in every possible direction that the world wants me to go in.  

    FFARR provides me with a fresh, polished, and aesthetically pleasing opportunity to go about my business in a bustling world, taking my leisurely time doing whatever it is I want to do whenever I want to do it.  Other players be damned.  It doesn't matter if FATEs are the current, most effective way to level, it doesn't impact me in the slightest.

    I guess my point is, don't cause yourself undue suffering.  There isn't a magical level where everything is going to fall into your lap, wrapped neatly in ribbon.  If the game didn't click with you on day one, it likely will never click no matter how hard you want it to, no matter what someone tells you.

  • vivifloxviviflox lindblumPosts: 15Member

    this game is by far the best mmo i have played in the last 5 years, no grinding at all on my side, nonlinear quests, your own leveling system be it quests main story line class/job quests, grand company leves adventure company leves, dungeons too many u can choose, and i love it. immersion is top notch in my books, lore is amazing, honestly when i played wow i never read anything, and here i am reading every single simple quest there is, i don't know maybe it's just me, but i am loving every word they say. and oh talking about hardcore i love it, the heroic wepons questline is as follows

    1. Beat the main story line

    2. Beat your main quest line

    3. Begin the quest in Vespar Bay (through talking to various NPCs) and continue until...

    4. You need to acquire an old weapon from a coffer

    5. Return to the NPC with the old weapon (NPC is Gerolt)

    6. He then asks you to bring him a Materia-enhanced weapon ; so you can buy or craft the weapon and then attach the specific materia to the weapon

    7. Slay a Chimera in Coerthas requiring a party of 8 people.

    8. Obtain a glyph from Ampador Keep (Level 50 dungeon for 4 people)

    9. Kill a number of beastmen with an unfinished version of your Relic Weapon

    10. Kill the Hydra in Halatali with the unfinished weapon

    11. Obtain 3 items from the Hard Mode of Primals against Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan

    12. Obtain a Rad-At han Quenching Oil for 900 Philosophy Tomes in Mor Dhona

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member

    People can debate these facts of boring/grindy etc to death. But in the end its personal preferences/styles that determine what feels grindy/boring...for the most part, I know there are games out there that are GRIND fests, ive played them. I have also played games that I did not like, but never called them boring specificly, just for me, it was a good game...just not my taste.

    I love my coffee with Cream and Sugar, How about you?

This discussion has been closed.