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[Column] General: The Petulant Child of PAX

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,572MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

It is no secret that the writers and creators of the Penny Arcade comic and the founders of the PAX convention series have been the center of several year's worth of controversy. In our latest Devil's Advocate column, we take a look at some of that controversy and offer a few thoughts. Read on before heading to the comments to add your voice to the discussion.

The controversy that colors today’s Devil’s Advocate stems from a 2010 PAX comic. The comic strip itself was fairly standard, discussing an existing MMORPG trope about how even epic quests do not task you with saving everyone, but rather, only a small group of people from a horde of needy victims.

The problem with the comic: the people that needed to be saved were “raped to sleep by the dickwolves” every night. For rape survivors, this is a bit insensitive and kind of trigger-inducing. Unfortunately, the reaction of Penny Arcade’s creators to the valid criticism of their comic was basically draw the issue out in a series of posts and to issue a non-apology. Worse still, there was an attempt to monetize this dickishness by selling “Team Dickwolves” wearable merchandise. 

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: The Petulant Child of PAX.

Editor's Note: This article deals with mature subject matter and contains some harsh language.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,404Member Uncommon

    i stopped reading this colum  when i started seein the word 'rape' involved with gaming.

    its just not acceptable. -for me.

     
  • TenebrionTenebrion Hallandale, FLPosts: 179Member

    Butt-hurt about humor in a comic?! Simple solution: don't read it.

     

    But seriously though, if you think the threat of "dick wolves" in a world centered around brutal murder is somehow the worst thing one might have to ponder, then I'd advise you sit down and try a little harder.

    image
    Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
    And overall bitter old man.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    Editor's Note: This article deals with mature subject matter and contains some harsh language.

    translation:
    This article is devoid of substance so we've added shock value in order to gain hits

    Thanks for the heads up.
    Pass.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,356MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Editor's Note: This article deals with mature subject matter and contains some harsh language.

    translation:
    This article is devoid of substance so we've added shock value in order to gain hits

    Thanks for the heads up.
    Pass.

    Quite the opposite, Foom. The note is for parents who let their kids read the site (or kids who let their parents read the site).  It's not exactly a normal topic for our site, but Victor tackles it wonderfully.  You'd be missing out if you don't read it.

  • justinsalesartjustinsalesart Seagrove Beach, FLPosts: 117Member Uncommon

    There are no lines in comedy.

    As soon as you validate one line, all lines are validated.

    I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.

    Current: Dragonrealms (That's right, I pay 15 bucks a month for a text game.)

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Foomerang Editor's Note: This article deals with mature subject matter and contains some harsh language. translation: This article is devoid of substance so we've added shock value in order to gain hits Thanks for the heads up. Pass.
    Quite the opposite, Foom. The note is for parents who let their kids read the site (or kids who let their parents read the site).  It's not exactly a normal topic for our site, but Victor tackles it wonderfully.  You'd be missing out if you don't read it.

    Ok I read it. As a feminist, I agree with the message he is promoting. I don't understand why this had a disclaimer. Anti oppression should not be a taboo subject imho. If we keep treating it as such, then the problem will never get better. Its like those people who don't talk about racism thinking that if you don't talk about it, it will go away.

    Anyway, its a step in the right direction. And a huge step forward for this site. Although, the half dozen T&A ads surrounding the article reeks of hypocrisy. I know I know, you have no control over that, Bill. But maybe you should?

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,424Member Uncommon
    What kind of "creep" is going on at these conventions? I would think that common sense would have prevailed already. That's why I'm curious about what's going on.

    Once upon a time....

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    This article has some substance to it and I don’t have any issues with it. To be honest the penny arcade guys got off on offensive humor and used it to cap a few dollars before realizing the controversy didn’t make them cool in the public eye like a “shock jock” and it never really sunk in with them until that ”apology” that they may have been doing actual harm with their words. Looking at them right now it's kind of like watching Beavis and Butt-head get old and have to mend some behavior to hold down a job before ending up like Dice Clay.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    This reads like Shakespeare i.e Much Ado about Nothing.
  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 953Member Uncommon
    I don't know much about the "Dickwolf Catastrophe", but from what I've read, I feel like people are overreacting. Reading comics, or approached by the situation in our daily lives, should probably be met with different reactions, and I can't get behind the idea of stifling creative talent just because it unintentionally hurts someone, or a group of someone's, feelings. This isn't anything new for Penny Arcade, so you'd think people would have learned by now.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    A joke is a joke. Crude humor sells. If you don't find it funny, get your funny somewhere else.

    South Park, Penny Arcade, The Oatmeal, Funny or Die, 99% of stand up comics...

    If you are sensitive little snow flake, please stick to PG-PG13 Hollywood comedies.

    The world and this country (USA) could do with a lot less political correctness.

    People need to lighten up.

    Rape? Not funny.

    Rape jokes? Can be very funny.

    People who don't or can't understand the difference and/or separate the two should have their heads examined.

     

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    People getting offended by crude jokes? Better hide the 4chan.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon

    Although I tend to agree with some very valid points in this article about the idiocy of a public figure obstinately defending an untenable position, what came to mind to me immediately, since I'd just had a laugh about it again recently when talking to a friend, was what is essentially pedophilia humor from the 1980 movie Airplane. "Joey, do you like gladiator movies?"

    If anything is even less socially acceptable in civilized society than rape, it's pedophilia. Neither is a joke. But can we joke about it? You bet your ass.

    You can find this type of humor everywhere in dead baby jokes or even some jokes I remember from my days in Catholic HS: "What's black and white and red and black and white and red? A nun rolling down a hill."

    There is a big difference between rape jokes and rape. And there is no connection whatsoever between laughing at the joke and condoning the action.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Iselin And there is no connection whatsoever between laughing at the joke and condoning the action.

    /thread

    +1

    *golf clap*

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    A joke is a joke. Crude humor sells. If you don't find it funny, get your funny somewhere else.

    South Park, Penny Arcade, The Oatmeal, Funny or Die, 99% of stand up comics...

    If you are sensitive little snow flake, please stick to PG-PG13 Hollywood comedies.

    The world and this country (USA) could do with a lot less political correctness.

    People need to lighten up.

    Rape? Not funny.

    Rape jokes? Can be very funny.

    People who don't or can't understand the difference and/or separate the two should have their heads examined.

     

    I kind of agree with this.

    Know where you are and what venue/site/book "whatever" you are listening to/viewing.

    I don't believe in shoving one's humor/proclivities into the faces of others. I do believe people should have the right to say what they want in their own "space".

    There is a lot we wouldn't have if it was left up to the tastes of others.

    I personally enjoy things like South Park. I would never force such a thing onto another however.

    If I read a comic with a tasteless joke I might find it funny but might not agree with the sentiment if it were "serious".

    And in the end, vote with your wallet/time.

    If you don't like venues that offer a certain type of entertainment don't go there.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?

    Nope, not at all!

    But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

    Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

    Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

    Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

     

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!

    But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

    Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

    Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

    Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

     


    You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Great article Victor.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!

     

    But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

    Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

    Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

    Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

     


     

    You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?

    So the answer then is to censor and sanitize everything to protect the sensitivities of a few.....

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    A joke is a joke. Crude humor sells. If you don't find it funny, get your funny somewhere else.

    South Park, Penny Arcade, The Oatmeal, Funny or Die, 99% of stand up comics...

    If you are sensitive little snow flake, please stick to PG-PG13 Hollywood comedies.

    The world and this country (USA) could do with a lot less political correctness.

    People need to lighten up.

    Rape? Not funny.

    Rape jokes? Can be very funny.

    People who don't or can't understand the difference and/or separate the two should have their heads examined.

     

    Find hells angels party near you.

    Tell them loud and clear that you gonna rape them.

    -----------------

    Some people might find it funny and good joke.

    Pretty sure its better to get your head examined after the meeting.

    Joke is a joke oh yeah,but its better to check first  for who it is aimed for.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!   But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade. Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined. Don't get all Tipper Gore on us. Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.  
      You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?
    So the answer then is to censor and sanitize everything to protect the sensitivities of a few.....

    Nope. The answer is to recognize that we all have different life experiences and points of view. An acknowledgment rather than a don't like it leave mentality. But that is difficult for some people to do.
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!

     

    But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

    Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

    Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

    Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

     


     

    You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?

    um "yeah".

    Otherwise let's start talking about other things that matter. Violence in movies/TV/Video games.

    the lack of morality and religion in our society

    Or "you name it"; pick your poison.

    People don't really understand what freedom of speech is. It's not about getting to say whatever you want wherever you want it's about not being prosecuted for saying what you say in your own space.

    If someone wants to talk about "anything" I say they should be able to do so within their own venue. It's up to you to decide whether you go to that venue or not.

    I mean. you are here on a video game site that has video games that not only include violence but sexuality, imbibing/ingesting alcohol/drugs, etc.

    do you think for one minute that there aren't a multitude of people/groups out there who would love to have this site shut down because of their beliefs? Do you support that?

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Drakynn

    Originally posted by Foomerang  

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!   But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade. Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined. Don't get all Tipper Gore on us. Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.  
      You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?
    So the answer then is to censor and sanitize everything to protect the sensitivities of a few.....
    Nope. The answer is to recognize that we all have different life experiences and points of view. An acknowledgment rather than a don't like it leave mentality. But that is difficult for some people to do.

     

    People are free to express their views on it for sure,but they aren't free to expect people to change things just for them or to demand people be censored or stop doing what they are doing unless sit is either illegal or depriving someone else of their freedoms.

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
    Nope, not at all!

     

    But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

    Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

    Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

    Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

     


     

    You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?

    um "yeah".

    Otherwise let's start talking about other things that matter. Violence in movies/TV/Video games.

    the lack of morality and religion in our society

    Or "you name it"; pick your poison.

    People don't really understand what freedom of speech is. It's not about getting to say whatever you want wherever you want it's about not being prosecuted for saying what you say in your own space.

    If someone wants to talk about "anything" I say they should be able to do so within their own venue. It's up to you to decide whether you go to that venue or not.

    I mean. you are here on a video game site that has video games that not only include violence but sexuality, imbibing/ingesting alcohol/drugs, etc.

    do you think for one minute that there aren't a multitude of people/groups out there who would love to have this site shut down because of their beliefs? Do you support that?

    They dont lack morality ,theres so deep shit that could be shown but know what they dont show it,for a reason.

    + Do they actually show real rape videos on tv in your country ?

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

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