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The Real Reason the MMO "Industry" is the way it is now.

124»

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now?

    You might want to reread the thread, as several posts have already pointed out how almost everything the OP said was factually incorrect. If there's a 'fact' that Venge contested that you believe is actually true, definitely share that with us.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ray12k
     

    As I said before wow had a massive player base to start with ( I even use to play warcraft). And its reasons for hand holding were more to do with helping its base to transition into a mmorpg. 

    No other hand holding mmorpg has been able successful. lol except maple story as you pointed out lol.  

    I doubt that was more massive than star wars, or even star trek at the time when WOW was launched.

    I think WOW expand that player base by a huge amount.

    Yes, the following was bigger then both in the sense that warcraft was a computer game and wow was played on the computer. Blizzard turned out a game that many felt was easy to adapt to. It was design to be a first mmorpg and it has expanded the mmorpg player base to a great success. 

    If i am not wrong SWG was a big hit with fans until they started nerfing the gameplay. 

    Star trek I have no clue about.

    So whats your point anyways?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    So what happened? Where did everything go wrong?

     

    Success is what happened

    So after 99.99% of you leave, I'll get good games again?

    Not worth the cost. I could just adapt and evolve, instead.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    facts are the industry is spread out with people jumping from free game to free game because the current models are not working as the panel stated.  Easy mode hand holding ect. is dead live with it or jump on farmville brah.

    But yeah you dont want to hear the truth... head in the sand =)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    facts are the industry is spread out with people jumping from free game to free game because the current models are not working as the panel stated.  Easy mode hand holding ect. is dead live with it or jump on farmville brah.

    But yeah you dont want to hear the truth... head in the sand =)

    Actually what they stated was going after 50% of WoW's playerbase is not realistic.  The model of making a game for hundreds of millions of dollars and expecting to maintain millions of subcribers is not sustainable.  I agree with that wholeheartedly and have stated that for awhilenow.

    They said nothing about easy games or challening games being unsustainable.

    They said nothing about f2p or p2p or b2p being unsustainable.

    Facts are, even with people jumping from game to game, the games are still making money hand over fist.  Easy mode games (as you call them) have content so challenging very few people have done. 

    But yeah you don't want to hear the truth... head in the sand. =)

    What your saying and what the panel said are two different things.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    This also pertains to the unfortunate reality that unless a major studio finally decides to take a risk we'll most likely only see future innovations from unknown smaller companies, or even simply Indie startups to save the MMORPG industry as a whole.

     

     

    So, why is the MMORPG genre the way it is now? Well, part of the truth is in the very title of this thread. The genre of MMORPG's has become an "Industry" in and of itself.

     

    Back in 1998 when I first logged into Ultima Online I was amazed at how many people were playing in the same game as me (I was ~11 at the time). The sheer fact that I could go out and meet people all across the world that I didn't know was an awe inspiring thought to me.

      

    That's my 15year experience of MMORPG's talking anyways.....cheers :)!

    -Bear

    you answered you own question op.  and you don't even know it.  people take the power of the internet for granted nowadays because its become so accessable.  without that brand new feeling of playing with people from all over the world you have finally realized that you A.  don't like mmo's.  B.  don't like rpg's. or C.  don't like video games anymore because you've grown up a little bit. 

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    facts are the industry is spread out with people jumping from free game to free game because the current models are not working as the panel stated.  Easy mode hand holding ect. is dead live with it or jump on farmville brah.

    But yeah you dont want to hear the truth... head in the sand =)

    Actually what they stated was going after 50% of WoW's playerbase is not realistic.  The model of making a game for hundreds of millions of dollars and expecting to maintain millions of subcribers is not sustainable.  I agree with that wholeheartedly and have stated that for awhilenow.

    They said nothing about easy games or challening games being unsustainable.

    They said nothing about f2p or p2p or b2p being unsustainable.

    Facts are, even with people jumping from game to game, the games are still making money hand over fist.  Easy mode games (as you call them) have content so challenging very few people have done. 

    But yeah you don't want to hear the truth... head in the sand. =)

    What your saying and what the panel said are two different things.

    lol who said anything about p2p or ftp hell i dont even know what btp is mabye bang to play????

    The panel said games need to be less hand holding walking someone through a set path and players need more freedom.

    I think you have a lil midget in your head that argues with you. Because you have been off point since page 1. My whole point has been that hand holding ,arrow following,  follow the yellow brick road mmorpgs are a dying breed. its the past they are gone like hammer pants. Well lingering the back ground i would say. 

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    facts are the industry is spread out with people jumping from free game to free game because the current models are not working as the panel stated.  Easy mode hand holding ect. is dead live with it or jump on farmville brah.

    But yeah you dont want to hear the truth... head in the sand =)

    Actually what they stated was going after 50% of WoW's playerbase is not realistic.  The model of making a game for hundreds of millions of dollars and expecting to maintain millions of subcribers is not sustainable.  I agree with that wholeheartedly and have stated that for awhilenow.

    They said nothing about easy games or challening games being unsustainable.

    They said nothing about f2p or p2p or b2p being unsustainable.

    Facts are, even with people jumping from game to game, the games are still making money hand over fist.  Easy mode games (as you call them) have content so challenging very few people have done. 

    But yeah you don't want to hear the truth... head in the sand. =)

    What your saying and what the panel said are two different things.

    lol who said anything about p2p or ftp hell i dont even know what btp is mabye bang to play????

    The panel said games need to be less hand holding walking someone through a set path and players need more freedom.

    I think you have a lil midget in your head that argues with you. Because you have been off point since page 1. My whole point has been that hand holding ,arrow following,  follow the yellow brick road mmorpgs are a dying breed. its the past they are gone like hammer pants. Well lingering the back ground i would say. 

    Right back at you.  

    Totally agree on the freedom part.  Don't expect to see any less quests or any other recommendations in games about where you should go or what you should do.  Thats all they are.  I've never felt any need to obey them.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    When developers went mainstream and started catering to the casuals that is when mmos went downhill.  Years ago players  were happy with their niche mmos that were actually fun and challenging to play. 
    30
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Oh there  was plenty whining on the threads back then too.  Devs made the game more casual and brought the changes because thats when the then players were whining about.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I disagree with pretty much every single point you made.

    I wasn't aware that we can disagree with facts now? And if so many people love the way MMOs are now, why is there such massive scale failure happening to nearly every MMO?

    Good thing he didn't post a single fact.

    And most are making money, making expansions, making profit.

    Facts..... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5949883#5949883

    developers  are feeling the strain as the industry is losing steam due to to much hand holding and simple game play.

    Good thing what the OP stated and what that panel discussed were not the same.

    Short summary of hte panel:

    -Trying to get 50% of WoW is not a good business model.

    -Trying new things.

    -Innovation can be a cool game, innovation is hard to sell.

    -Systems of certain games will start to merge within certain games.

    No doom and gloom

    Nothing about EA and Sony being small in 97 and 99.

    Nothing about Indie being the source of innovatino

    Nothing (despite what you said in your previous thread with badspock) about Rift, War, Swtor, Allods failing.

    Nothing about indie games being the only source of quality or fun.

    So all in all nothing about what the OP said at all.

    And they didn't discuss any facts in that panel either, they talked about their thoughts and musings of where the industry is going.  Thats it.

    You have a strange idea of facts.

    facts are the industry is spread out with people jumping from free game to free game because the current models are not working as the panel stated.  Easy mode hand holding ect. is dead live with it or jump on farmville brah.

    But yeah you dont want to hear the truth... head in the sand =)

    Actually what they stated was going after 50% of WoW's playerbase is not realistic.  The model of making a game for hundreds of millions of dollars and expecting to maintain millions of subcribers is not sustainable.  I agree with that wholeheartedly and have stated that for awhilenow.

    They said nothing about easy games or challening games being unsustainable.

    They said nothing about f2p or p2p or b2p being unsustainable.

    Facts are, even with people jumping from game to game, the games are still making money hand over fist.  Easy mode games (as you call them) have content so challenging very few people have done. 

    But yeah you don't want to hear the truth... head in the sand. =)

    What your saying and what the panel said are two different things.

    lol who said anything about p2p or ftp hell i dont even know what btp is mabye bang to play????

    The panel said games need to be less hand holding walking someone through a set path and players need more freedom.

    I think you have a lil midget in your head that argues with you. Because you have been off point since page 1. My whole point has been that hand holding ,arrow following,  follow the yellow brick road mmorpgs are a dying breed. its the past they are gone like hammer pants. Well lingering the back ground i would say. 

    Right back at you.  

    Totally agree on the freedom part.  Don't expect to see any less quests or any other recommendations in games about where you should go or what you should do.  Thats all they are.  I've never felt any need to obey them.

    I'm sorry :( I just wanted to make the step pyramid taller.

    image

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