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[Survey] How do you feel about the artistic direction for Everquest Next?

2

Comments

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member
    Originally posted by georgatos7
    Originally posted by Karteli

    The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

     

    Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?



     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

     

    It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

    Where do you guys get your info from?

    dont you know?

    eating hogies and wearing tin foil hats. real information? bah! thats for fools, /sarcasm

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by georgatos7
    Originally posted by Karteli

    The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

     

    Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?



     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

     

    It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

    Where do you guys get your info from?

    dont you know?

    eating hogies and wearing tin foil hats. real information? bah! thats for fools, /sarcasm

    ^ LOL!!

    Yeah the Voxels can make incredible stuff. Not sure why anyone would even have an opinion otherwise if they knew it's beginnings and such. Voxel based graphics are used in such a wide array of visuals.

  • KurealKureal Irvine, CAPosts: 3Member

    Hello everyone!

    As promised, I have returned with the results of the survey! Here is a direct link to the results:

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qidxdaZKQFV25yqlSgmcn14H_vbqWZvOQDCqKSI0z_w/viewanalytics#start=publishanalytics

    And here is a link to the new reddit post I made with the results, for those that are interested:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comments/1lrkdj/art_survey_results/

    To paraphrase the reddit post:

    The responses seem to have trailed off and mostly stopped, so I would like to share the results of the art direction survey. I'm excited to report that within just a few days there were 832 responses. I would like to also make an important note: Consider the results thoroughly, for certain responses it is more appropriate to group two or more of the responses together. For instance, "love it" and "good" could both be considered overall positive responses, and could be grouped together to provide a more accurate assessment of the results. The same is true of indifferent or negative responses. I hope that you all find the results as exciting as I do. Finally, I just want to go on record saying that I had no agenda in creating this survey, I hope that these results will serve as the basis for some great conversations and excellent progress.

    Thank you again, and I hope that you enjoy reviewing the numbers. I will check back in on this thread after work tomorrow.

    Kureal

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by georgatos7
    Originally posted by Karteli

    The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

     

    Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?

    It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

    Where do you guys get your info from?

     

    Where do we get our info from ... hmmm ...

     

    Oh yeah, from the SOE Live presentation!

     

    .. and those visuals were not ultra realistic, sorry to bust your bubble .. you may have seen something similar elsewhere but then you are just daydreaming as to what EQN is going to have ... go by what SOE shows you, not what some other shows you ..

    .. I bought a motorcycle because it looked like a Harley ... it's not a Harley  .. but it looked like one   ... you mean just because something else looks similar it's not the same??  :(

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Kureal

    Hello everyone!

    As promised, I have returned with the results of the survey! Here is a direct link to the results:

    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qidxdaZKQFV25yqlSgmcn14H_vbqWZvOQDCqKSI0z_w/viewanalytics#start=publishanalytics

    And here is a link to the new reddit post I made with the results, for those that are interested:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comments/1lrkdj/art_survey_results/

    To paraphrase the reddit post:

    The responses seem to have trailed off and mostly stopped, so I would like to share the results of the art direction survey. I'm excited to report that within just a few days there were 832 responses. I would like to also make an important note: Consider the results thoroughly, for certain responses it is more appropriate to group two or more of the responses together. For instance, "love it" and "good" could both be considered overall positive responses, and could be grouped together to provide a more accurate assessment of the results. The same is true of indifferent or negative responses. I hope that you all find the results as exciting as I do. Finally, I just want to go on record saying that I had no agenda in creating this survey, I hope that these results will serve as the basis for some great conversations and excellent progress.

    Thank you again, and I hope that you enjoy reviewing the numbers. I will check back in on this thread after work tomorrow.

    Kureal

     

    Surprised at how many liked the art style to be honest, I guess that really does show that there is a vocal minority on here.

    Out of curiousity, where else did you post the link to the survey? Was it just the MMORPG community? Or did you post on another site as well?

    I have found users on Massively and other sites to be far more positive regarding EQN.

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    People do not have any individual taste at all - they simply align with the herd and follow the trends reassuring each other how great it looks til they believe it for real.

    Damage is done - taste is gone...

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon
    As far as what we are shown so far for the characters, I like the facials animations, but that's it.
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Out of curiousity, where else did you post the link to the survey? Was it just the MMORPG community? Or did you post on another site as well?

    I have found users on Massively and other sites to be far more positive regarding EQN.

    "The survey has been posted on the Everquest Next forums on MMORPG.com as well as EQNforum.com." - from the reddit thread.

    The results are generally in line with what I thought at that time, although the latest parkour video soured by opinion a bit. The only pre-parkour thing I really disliked was the Lion Man and his armor, but that's not a big deal.

  • MagicabbageMagicabbage virginia beach, VAPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by darker70

    Not bad as long as there is game play graphics come second in my book,buts still say that tiger fella looks like Tony the tiger from the frosties ads,it did not have the raw primal power that the Charr convey in GW2.

    Other than that

     

    They're Gr-r-reat!

     

    image

    The "lion" looked like Tony the Tiger? Doesn't make sense nor is it even close. I know you were "trying" to be funny but alas. NO

  • georgatos7georgatos7 RPosts: 54Member
     

    Where do we get our info from ... hmmm ...

     

    Oh yeah, from the SOE Live presentation!  Derp.

     

    .. and those visuals were not ultra realistic, sorry to bust your bubble .. you may have seen something similar elsewhere but then you are just daydreaming as to what EQN is going to have ... go by what SOE shows you, not what some other shows you ..

    Derp .. I bought a motorcycle because it looked like a Harley ... it's not a Harley  .. but it looked like one   ... you mean just because something else looks similar it's not the same??  :(

     

    SOE Live?

    Give me the source where they say that you can't have realistic scenery with Voxels and that's why the went full disney.

    And that "other guy" that made those sceneries isn't a random guy. He is the one who made the base of EQN's Voxel engine.

     

    Don't base your info on mmorpg fanboys and don't pull stuff out of your imagination.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    As with most biased surveys and polls, you can tell what the author's intent is.  To make that more objective, it should have just been "yes or no" type of answers.  Not one way to say "yes" and 4 or 5 ways to say "no" per item.  Then again, I'm sure objectivity wasn't your intent, so meh.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • EnrifEnrif PforzheimPosts: 151Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rodingo
    As with most biased surveys and polls, you can tell what the author's intent is.  To make that more objective, it should have just been "yes or no" type of answers.  Not one way to say "yes" and 4 or 5 ways to say "no" per item.  Then again, I'm sure objectivity wasn't your intent, so meh.

    actually the survey isn't very biased as you have many options to grade the art direction from very good to absolute disaster. And the majority seems to like the art direction. the only ones who seems to really hate it are the ones that again and again post it in this forums that they hate it. 

    And from the developer's view its better to go the way many like then what some crybabies want

  • KaeriganKaerigan None Of Your BusinessPosts: 689Member
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

    People do not have any individual taste at all - they simply align with the herd and follow the trends reassuring each other how great it looks til they believe it for real.

    Damage is done - taste is gone...

    So if you like it, you're part of the herd mentality, but if you do not, you're an individual?

    *snicker* Keep telling yourself that.

    <childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Enrif
    Originally posted by rodingo
    As with most biased surveys and polls, you can tell what the author's intent is.  To make that more objective, it should have just been "yes or no" type of answers.  Not one way to say "yes" and 4 or 5 ways to say "no" per item.  Then again, I'm sure objectivity wasn't your intent, so meh.

    actually the survey isn't very biased as you have many options to grade the art direction from very good to absolute disaster. And the majority seems to like the art direction. the only ones who seems to really hate it are the ones that again and again post it in this forums that they hate it. 

    And from the developer's view its better to go the way many like then what some crybabies want

    Not really trying to argue with you here, but when you look at the second option down from most of the items, you will see "..looks good, but...".  There is a caveat on each of those.  It's just my opinion that it's unnecessary to add that and tends to lean this survey into a certain direction. 

    I'm not defending the art style of EQN, in this thread.  Just pointing out what I see.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member
    Originally posted by georgatos7
    Originally posted by Karteli

    The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

     

    Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

    It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

    Where do you guys get your info from?

     

    Wow I wasn't to keen of the current disney style, but now I'm glad since the "realistic" stylized approach you showed is so bad. Everything looks like a big pile of clay with tileable textures on it. This is a nature of voxel technology. There is no structure to it, everything has the same form bottom to top. I guess you can see how big step back in terms of realism needs to be taken in order to implement voxel technology. If it weren't for the tons of procedural grass, I would think those clips are from before 2005.. The lighting and texture is so bad... maybe textures have good resolution, but that won't help the artificial look.

    It is much safer to go with a style that can be drawn like a painting. Not like it matters, since a company decides which group of people they are targeting.

  • georgatos7georgatos7 RPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

    ...Everything looks like a big pile of clay with tileable textures on it. This is a nature of voxel technology. There is no structure to it, everything has the same form bottom to top...

     

    This is the nature of voxels?

    I don't think you understand. There is nothing you can do with polygons that can't be done with voxels. There is no predifined nature of voxels. It's just what you are capable of doing as an artist.

    And guess what. It's the same Voxel engine that you saw at SOE Live so if this has no structure and everything looks like clay the based on your logic EQN should have the same fate.

     

    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

    ...The lighting and texture is so bad...

     

    You don't seriously judge the lighting and the textures of a Voxel engine that can be embedded on other rendering engines and be handled by real artists, do you?

     

    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
    ...Not like it matters, since a company decides which group of people they are targeting.

     

    We agree on that.

    It doesn't matter if voxels are more than capable of doing awesome realistic scenes. If the company decides they are going to target kids then there is no way to change that.

    But i just can't hear that this style was forced upon them because of voxels and destructibility. This is fanboyism to the level of stupidity or just plain ignorance.

     

    Anyway, about the poll what i see is that in some cases a third or up to more than half of the ones who voted are just meh or negative about the art direction. Alienating all those ppl so early isn't something you should be proud of.

     

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member

    Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

    I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

     

    percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

    • overall feel              52%
    • dark elf:                   46%
    • general art style:   39%
    • kerra:                       34%
    • Firiona Vie:              34%
    • armour:                    34%
    • female dwarf:          27%
    • weapons:                 26%
    • ogre:                         21%
    • male dwarf:             15%
    • elves:                        11%
    • human wizard:          9%
    • world graphics:         3%

    It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by georgatos7
     

    Anyway, about the poll what i see is that in some cases a third or up to more than half of the ones who voted are just meh or negative about the art direction. Alienating all those ppl so early isn't something you should be proud of.

     

    It is pretty safe to say, that you are going to "alienate" a third of the people in any online poll no matter what you do

    If you offer instances, you will anger the sandbox crowd

    if you don't offer instances, you anger the raiders.

     

    Make the graphics too Asian, and you get people calling them hollow souled toons and not in the style of EQ1

    Make them stylized, you get people saying it is aimed at kids and not in the style of EQ2.

     

    The majority of people like the art direction.

  • MarvisMarvis ZurichPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by Sengi

    Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

    I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

     

    percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

    • overall feel              52%
    • dark elf:                   46%
    • general art style:   39%
    • kerra:                       34%
    • Firiona Vie:              34%
    • armour:                    34%
    • female dwarf:          27%
    • weapons:                 26%
    • ogre:                         21%
    • male dwarf:             15%
    • elves:                        11%
    • human wizard:          9%
    • world graphics:         3%

    It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

     

    For me, the interesting bit of the survey is that some elements really score well, so it's not like there are a lot of people who are categorically putting in a negative feedback. Hence, they need to work on everything that has less than 50% of the people voting for the best option (as this was achieved for several topics).

  • EeksEeks New York, NYPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by Sengi

    Thank you for making this survey, it is really interesting.

    I've made a little list about peoples top dislikes.

     

    percentage of people who voted overly negative about the:

    • overall feel              52%
    • dark elf:                   46%
    • general art style:   39%
    • kerra:                       34%
    • Firiona Vie:              34%
    • armour:                    34%
    • female dwarf:          27%
    • weapons:                 26%
    • ogre:                         21%
    • male dwarf:             15%
    • elves:                        11%
    • human wizard:          9%
    • world graphics:         3%

    It seems many people really don't the dark elf, even more then the kerra. I find that surprising.

    To be fair, the overall feel question wasn't overly balanced in its options =p

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Surprised at how many liked the art style to be honest, I guess that really does show that there is a vocal minority on here. ...

    Really? I see something completely different in the results.

    • I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony.                                     20%
    • I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different.      10%
    • I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it.               6%
    • I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games.                       3%

    Altogether 39% of the people said they overly dislike the graphics. And 52% said they didn't like the overall feel of the graphics. That is a significant group.

    895 people is not a small sample. This survey is definitively saying something.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Surprised at how many liked the art style to be honest, I guess that really does show that there is a vocal minority on here. ...

    Really? I see something completely different in the results.

    • I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony.                                     20%
    • I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different.      10%
    • I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it.               6%
    • I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games.                       3%

    Altogether 39% of the people said they overly dislike the graphics. And 52% said they didn't like the overall feel of the graphics. That is a significant group.

    895 people is not a small sample. This survey is definitively saying something.

    Oh come on, if this was a standard 1-5 results poll over 50 percent would have been in the positive camp for most of the questions asked.

     

    When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

    only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

    and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

    The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

     

     

    Yes, I think the art direction for EQ Next should be something different. 91      10%
    I like some of the art that we've seen, but I dislike more of it. 54        6%
    I dislike some of the art we've seen, but I like more of it. 209       23%
    No, I love the current art direction. 358       39%
    I feel that it looks too generic or similar to other games. 23         3%
    I think the style is too juvenile and/or cartoony. 181       20%
     

    Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

     
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by georgatos7
    Originally posted by Karteli

    The general artwork that I've seen is good.  It uses Voxels, which can't make ultra realistic graphics because of the destructibility aspect...

     

    Oh the voxels can't create realistic graphics?



     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aTsZGAK8Lo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btc7gFIjJco

     

    It's the same engine that is going to handle voxel creation and editing in EQN.

    Where do you guys get your info from?

    dont you know?

    eating hogies and wearing tin foil hats. real information? bah! thats for fools, /sarcasm

    ^ LOL!!

    Yeah the Voxels can make incredible stuff. Not sure why anyone would even have an opinion otherwise if they knew it's beginnings and such. Voxel based graphics are used in such a wide array of visuals.

    just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that it will work in the context of a mmo. There is probabally a massive advantage to use simplified cartoony blocks as opposed to a trillion blocks for 1 tree. All that stuff has to be tracked because its destructible.

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

    only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

    and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

    The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

    Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

     

    The most unpopular character was actually the dark elf, even more then the kerra. Not many people seem to care about the human. I think I overestimated that. The reason for this might be that the art style suit the serious and sinister dark elf much less, while this human "Jaleena" character appears rather funny.

     

    With the 52% I was referring to the last question "How do you feel about the overall emotional effect of the artistic direction?" This was the one with the greatest dissent. This is probably the most important question, because it is about the effect the art style has on the game. A majority people thinks the art style makes the game feel wrong, and most of them wan't it to be grittier or more realistic.

     

    My point is that is that it does not really matter what group is the majority. 39% is a percentage that can't be ignored. If 2 out of 5 people say they are discontented with the art style SOE should do something about it.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    When asked if the direction should be changed 62% either loved the current art or liked most of it, 

    only 10% expressed a strong dislike of the human model we have seen.

    and an overwhelming 72% liked the landscapes. You can't get 72% of most online polls to agree on anything these days. (88% if you include the second option of I think they look good)

    The only one that trended negative was the Kerra question, all the others either break even or lean towards the positive....as for your quoted results posted above.

    Over 62% like the majority of what they have seen. I don't know how your coming to your 52% don't like the art.

     

    The most unpopular character was actually the dark elf, even more then the kerra. Not many people seem to care about the human. I think I overestimated that. The reason for this might be that the art style suit the serious and sinister dark elf much less, while this human "Jaleena" character appears rather funny.

     

    With the 52% I was referring to the last question "How do you feel about the overall emotional effect of the artistic direction?" This was the one with the greatest dissent. This is probably the most important question, because it is about the effect the art style has on the game. A majority people thinks the art style makes the game feel wrong, and most of them wan't it to be grittier or more realistic.

     

    My point is that is that it does not really matter what group is the majority. 39% is a percentage that can't be ignored. If 2 out of 5 people say they are discontented with the art style SOE should do something about it.

    People in the MMO community, especially this forum, never agree on anything.

    You could carry this same scenario over to the ESO forum, where you hear people complaining about the exact opposite thing...the over use of grey and browns and the overall dreary look...which according to this poll 22% would prefer EQ be more like.

    I personally do not want instances in a sandbox, not one...I am willing to make exceptions for some amazing event or tutorial areas but other than that I think they are a hindrance on sandbox games not a boon. However, I know for a fact at least two out of five people would disagree with me, especially raiders. However if the game was heavily instanced then two out of five (or more) would bemoan another themepark MMO coming out.

     

    Your argument assumes there is some magic solution that creates a 90% or 100% satisfaction rate and I just do not see that, and have not seen that, in the MMO community. In todays climate just topping 50% in your favor is a boon, I imagine less than 50% were happy with SWOTR's f2p model, or Age of Wushu's timed items, or TSW lack of end game content. Frankly people who put graphics above gameplay can go find some other graphic demo mmo to play (TERA is free to play right now). I for one am in the majority camp that likes the way the game looks and would rather have the wide range of innovative terrain and gameplay effects than another pretty empty game.

    62% of the respondents like the majority of the graphics, and a small 20% think it is too cartoony.....whatever those people in the cartoony camp want to claim they can not claim majority. There are a couple of asian MMO's coming out that, perhaps, will satisfy them better...though I imagine those asian mmo's will be full of outlandish looking weapons and goofy animations that do not exactly scream realism either...guess there is always ESO.

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