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This and other sites agree MMORPGs don't have to be "massive"

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Comments

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,309Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by Aysono
     

    Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

    From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

     

     

    No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,754Member Uncommon

    Oh not this again Nari, slow day at the office?

    Your definition of MMORPGs seems to include all online games. Come on that's nonsense.

    I don't mind there being MMO's with midget worlds but lets call them something else Midget MMO's or the like. OK maybe marketing won't accept that how about Mini MMOs? :)

    You cannot put MMOs like EQ, AC, Lotro, WH, DAOC, DF in the same basket as MMOs like Terra, Perfect World and all the other Mini MMO's.

    Gaming sites want to maximise their audience and that means maximising the number of games they cover. Dark Ages got a review on this site, not even you I think will call a single player game a MMO. So it is not surprising that so many games on the games list of all these sites are not MMO's. This does not bother me too much as I like to keep up with various types of online 'MMO like' games.

    If you go to a general gaming mag site you get all the games, which is as it should be. If you want that, that's where you should go for it Nari.

    The gaming industry has for years used the term MMO to indicate any type of online game. I do not think they are happy with the confusion this must cause. But marketing likes it because it gives sub par online games the kudos of being a MMO. We already have some new terms like MMOFPS which are generally understood and accepted, lets keep going down that line.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
     

    The staff on this site have a very VERY loose definition of what MMORPG means. Reall they're just an online game website, they'll cover anything if there's any interest or money to be made off it.

    Hell, Age of Empires Online is even on this site, and that game lets you play with a MAX of 4 people.

    Yes, and also other sites too.

    You know WHY other sites do that? Because they're businesses. And businesses get money by covering a lot of games. By limiting yourself you limit your money. That's why places like Massively cover LoL.

     

    I should be surprised that nobody understands this, but sadly I'm not.

    Its always about money. Pick any subject, ask anyone why they do anything, and the answer is almost always money.

    Also, the definition of MMO has changed so much since I first started years ago, seems no two people can agree. So this whole discussion is a waste of time....lol

    image
  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Aysono

    LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

     

    Actually the reality is that including popular games into your news feed you get a lot more page views which translates directly into your site income. Just because a small simple lobby game like LoL has a huge player base does not make it an MMO. Who the hell even had the absurd idea that the first letter of MMO can be pulled from outside the actual game, such as community or playerbase which has nothing to do with the size of the game it self.

     

    Oh damn I've been waiting for Mass Effect MMORPG, that would be so sweet! But wait a minute, by playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer I already have Mass Effect-MMORPG because it has massive following? Oh wait, it only WAS massive multiplayer at launch, but now that the active players have shrunk it's not MMORPG anymore? The game has not changed AT ALL but the definition should change?

     

    I guess these games should have warning messages for bro dude players: "Warning, the player base has grown so big that the game is now all of a sudden MMO, I know crazy right, but if you dont want to be labeled as MMO-nerd quit playing the game immediately!" >_>

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by Aysono
     

    Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

    From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

     

     

    No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

    Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Aysono

    LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

     

    Actually the reality is that including popular games into your news feed you get a lot more page views which translates directly into your site income. Just because a small simple lobby game like LoL has a huge player base does not make it an MMO. Who the hell even had the absurd idea that the first letter of MMO can be pulled from outside the actual game, such as community or playerbase which has nothing to do with the size of the game it self.

     

    Oh damn I've been waiting for Mass Effect MMORPG, that would be so sweet! But wait a minute, by playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer I already have Mass Effect-MMORPG because it has massive following? Oh wait, it only WAS massive multiplayer at launch, but now that the active players have shrunk it's not MMORPG anymore? The game has not changed AT ALL but the definition should change?

     

    I guess these games should have warning messages for bro dude players: "Warning, the player base has grown so big that the game is now all of a sudden MMO, I know crazy right, but if you dont want to be labeled as MMO-nerd quit playing the game immediately!" >_>

    I think you get a little bit carried away. MOBAs and social games don't call themselves MMOs. The MMO websites put them in their content since there are less and less things to write on traditional MMOs.

     

    To my knowledge LoL, Farmville and such never wanted to be called MMOs. In fact, in most Asian countries they don't even use the term MMOs. WoW, LoL, CoD, Farmville are all simply called Online Games.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,309Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by Aysono
     

    Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

    From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

     

     

    No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

    Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

    It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

    If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

     

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by iixviiiix
    Originally posted by Aysono
     

    Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

    From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

     

     

    No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

    Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

    It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

    If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

     

    I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

    As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

  • SorillSorill Lewisville, TXPosts: 4Member

    You know, way back when, there were games called Online Role Playing Games.  They were games that you could play online, join parties in a lobby and do all that fancy stuff and then play the game with people you found in a lobby and they were coined by the developers as ORPGs.  Here is an example of one that i know of. http://dothack.wikia.com/wiki/Fr%C3%A4gment

    So, by the standard of games like this, ORPGs are games that you can play "multiplayer" with with a few people.  Note that there is no M for multiplayer in ORPG.  It was just understood that the game was multiplayer if it was online.

    That takes me to my point that with the addition of the MM for massively multiplayer in MMORPG would mean that the adverb Massively should completely and only qualify the Multiplayer part of Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game meaning that the games Multiplayer part must be on a massive scale and thus, a massive number of players playing together.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    can we get a list of these "other" sites

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Aysono
    I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

    The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott.

    Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4.

    He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well.

    **

    The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.



    Are you with us?

    Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure.

    Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously.
    Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics.
    Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle.
    Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology.
    Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.




    http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online

    Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so.

    http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Aysono
    I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

     

    As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.


     

    The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott.

    Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4.

    He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well.

    **

    The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.

     



    Are you with us?

     

    Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure.

    Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously.
    Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics.
    Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle.
    Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology.
    Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.


     



    http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online

    Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so.

    http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/

    Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.

     

    Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
      http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
    Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.

     

    Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?




    Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,309Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono

     

    Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

    It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

    If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

     

    I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

    As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

    Once again no.  It shows you fundamentally don't understand what an adverb is.  It clarifies, modifies or qualifies another phrase, verb, word, adjective

    The word it is clarifying is multiplayer. Mulitplayer does not refer to quality, it is quantity.  This is not opinion, mulitplayer means more than one player.  Massively multiplayer is clarifing the word multiplayer, because mulitplayer means more than one, massively multiplayer must mean significanly mean than on one. 

    This is not opinion, that is what multiplayer means, massive means big, grand, large, lots.  The two together with massively as the adverb is accentuating the term multiplayer.  That is not opinion.

    Massive game - could mean a big game, a really great game a grand game.

    Massively multiplayer - qualifes multiplayer, meaning a lot of people.

    If it was a massive mulitplayer gamer - here massive is not an adverb, here it is an adjective relating to the noun (in this use) game.  Meaning it could be all the same things as massive game.

    Massivly multiplayer is only referrring to the multiplayer which means more than one person, so once again massively multiplayer must be significantly more than one person.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member

    This thread is pointless and only serves as giggles for the OP...  (again)

     

     

    So explain to us, how many people = massive ?   (over a million people bought Diablo)

     

     

    Secondly, why are you only concerned with ONE word of the acronym & not the meaning of the whole acronym..?

    (Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.)

     

     

    So why are so happy that these websites mislabel games, so that misguided people visit the sites.. and clogged them up..?

    People like you...  who are not a roleplayer, yet you live on this roleplaying website...   why..?  

    (We all here @ mmorpg.com know why you are here)

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Aysono

    LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

     

    Actually the reality is that including popular games into your news feed you get a lot more page views which translates directly into your site income. Just because a small simple lobby game like LoL has a huge player base does not make it an MMO. Who the hell even had the absurd idea that the first letter of MMO can be pulled from outside the actual game, such as community or playerbase which has nothing to do with the size of the game it self.

     

    Oh damn I've been waiting for Mass Effect MMORPG, that would be so sweet! But wait a minute, by playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer I already have Mass Effect-MMORPG because it has massive following? Oh wait, it only WAS massive multiplayer at launch, but now that the active players have shrunk it's not MMORPG anymore? The game has not changed AT ALL but the definition should change?

     

    I guess these games should have warning messages for bro dude players: "Warning, the player base has grown so big that the game is now all of a sudden MMO, I know crazy right, but if you dont want to be labeled as MMO-nerd quit playing the game immediately!" >_>

    I think you get a little bit carried away. MOBAs and social games don't call themselves MMOs. The MMO websites put them in their content since there are less and less things to write on traditional MMOs.

     

    To my knowledge LoL, Farmville and such never wanted to be called MMOs. In fact, in most Asian countries they don't even use the term MMOs. WoW, LoL, CoD, Farmville are all simply called Online Games.

    Well, saying MMO sites include non-MMO games in their content is true, but does it all of a sudden turn these games into MMO's like the OP seem to think, no I think not (it makes no sense).

     

    I dont agree with there being less and less to write about true (traditional, as you put it) MMO's, we get new MMO's all the time and we have many long running ones now, it's simply about growing your website like this one.

     

    What's strange to me is why cant they just have separate news feed for non-MMO titles so people who come here for real MMO's dont have to crawl through the basic multiplayer games stuff. It would be a good time to overhaul the look and purpose of this site. Not bringing more sister sites, just clear up this one and add separate news feeds, come clear with what your site is about and stop confusing people.

     

    Or, like your Asian example, just get rid of the MMO/MMORPG term and start talking about online games and simply explain the scope of the game in question.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Aysono

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
      http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
    Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.

     

     

    Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?



    Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.

     

    Taking this from the wikipedia:

    Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model. At the time, AOL was still charging per minute, though a change to flat fees was anticipated. The game received multiple awards, including the fantasy-role-playing game of the year for 1996. It also has had various updates throughout its life, each adding new monsters, spells, and areas. In its early years it was commonly conceived of as a graphical MUD,[2] though this term, and M59's preferred "MMPRPG", was eventually displaced by the now-ubiquitous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, a term coined by Richard Garriott of Ultima Online in 1997.[3]

     

    ^ Meridian 59's History". In Mulligan, Jessica; Patrovsky, Bridgette. Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders. pp. 363–371. ISBN 1-59273-000-0.

     

    I didn't read the publication but if it was true "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game" wasn't coined by Garriott, only that 3DO called it MMPRGP instead of MMORPG. Also please note that MUDs were also categorized as MMORPGs too and there were a lot of MUDs before M59.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono

     

    Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

    It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

    If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

     

    I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

    As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

    Once again no.  It shows you fundamentally don't understand what an adverb is.  It clarifies, modifies or qualifies another phrase, verb, word, adjective

    The word it is clarifying is multiplayer. Mulitplayer does not refer to quality, it is quantity.  This is not opinion, mulitplayer means more than one player.  Massively multiplayer is clarifing the word multiplayer, because mulitplayer means more than one, massively multiplayer must mean significanly mean than on one. 

    This is not opinion, that is what multiplayer means, massive means big, grand, large, lots.  The two together with massively as the adverb is accentuating the term multiplayer.  That is not opinion.

    Massive game - could mean a big game, a really great game a grand game.

    Massively multiplayer - qualifes multiplayer, meaning a lot of people.

    If it was a massive mulitplayer gamer - here massive is not an adverb, here it is an adjective relating to the noun (in this use) game.  Meaning it could be all the same things as massive game.

    Massivly multiplayer is only referrring to the multiplayer which means more than one person, so once again massively multiplayer must be significantly more than one person.

    Please check this out from Meridian 59's Wikipedia:

    Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model.

    Assuming it is true then the originator of  "massively multi-player role-playing game", 3DO, apparently referred M59 to some sort of "large-n multi-player online game". You may argue if it was the case they should have dubbed it "massive multi-player role-playing game" instead of "massively multi-player role-playing game".

    Allow me to point out that M59 never was a game with "massive" fanbase. A population of a tiny 25k was specified on the wikipedia page, not merely a portion of the numbers registered for many MUDs at that time. If 25k registered players are what it takes to be considered "massvely" then almost every online game under the sun is a "massively online game".

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,309Member Uncommon
    IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by Aysono

    LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

     

    Actually the reality is that including popular games into your news feed you get a lot more page views which translates directly into your site income. Just because a small simple lobby game like LoL has a huge player base does not make it an MMO. Who the hell even had the absurd idea that the first letter of MMO can be pulled from outside the actual game, such as community or playerbase which has nothing to do with the size of the game it self.

     

    Oh damn I've been waiting for Mass Effect MMORPG, that would be so sweet! But wait a minute, by playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer I already have Mass Effect-MMORPG because it has massive following? Oh wait, it only WAS massive multiplayer at launch, but now that the active players have shrunk it's not MMORPG anymore? The game has not changed AT ALL but the definition should change?

     

    I guess these games should have warning messages for bro dude players: "Warning, the player base has grown so big that the game is now all of a sudden MMO, I know crazy right, but if you dont want to be labeled as MMO-nerd quit playing the game immediately!" >_>

    I think you get a little bit carried away. MOBAs and social games don't call themselves MMOs. The MMO websites put them in their content since there are less and less things to write on traditional MMOs.

     

    To my knowledge LoL, Farmville and such never wanted to be called MMOs. In fact, in most Asian countries they don't even use the term MMOs. WoW, LoL, CoD, Farmville are all simply called Online Games.

    Well, saying MMO sites include non-MMO games in their content is true, but does it all of a sudden turn these games into MMO's like the OP seem to think, no I think not (it makes no sense).

     

    I dont agree with there being less and less to write about true (traditional, as you put it) MMO's, we get new MMO's all the time and we have many long running ones now, it's simply about growing your website like this one.

     

    What's strange to me is why cant they just have separate news feed for non-MMO titles so people who come here for real MMO's dont have to crawl through the basic multiplayer games stuff. It would be a good time to overhaul the look and purpose of this site. Not bringing more sister sites, just clear up this one and add separate news feeds, come clear with what your site is about and stop confusing people.

     

    Or, like your Asian example, just get rid of the MMO/MMORPG term and start talking about online games and simply explain the scope of the game in question.

     

     

    My friend, You fail to see the propaganda and marketing arm of MMORPG.com. They want all the funneled "hits", so that their revenues soar. At the cost & detriment to the MMORPG community.

    We have asked repeatedly for heavy moderation & new sections, but Narius doesn't want it yet.

     

     

     

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • worldalphaworldalpha Milton, ONPosts: 403Member
    The word "massive" is a bit subjective term.  What makes a game massive?  100 players on a server, 1,000 or 10,000?

    Thanks,
    Mike
    Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

    The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

    http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

     

    Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

     

    Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,309Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

    The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

    http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

     

    Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

     

    Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

     Whether it made enough money to get off the commercial ground is irrelevant.  Whether the game was a success is irrelvant.

    What matters is, was it (or possible if it never made it off the ground would it) have been able to host more than a traditional multiplayer.

    If the traditional multiplayer at the time was 50, and m59 could host 100, or later 250-500 concurrent users  well that is more than 50, which was ore than the traditional mutliplayer, therefore it was massively multiplayer. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

    The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

    http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

     

    Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

     

    Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

     Whether it made enough money to get off the commercial ground is irrelevant.  Whether the game was a success is irrelvant.

    What matters is, was it (or possible if it never made it off the ground would it) have been able to host more than a traditional multiplayer.

    If the traditional multiplayer at the time was 50, and m59 could host 100, or later 250-500 concurrent users  well that is more than 50, which was ore than the traditional mutliplayer, therefore it was massively multiplayer. 

    You are going back to the same question asked by many posters on this thread that have yet to be answered. What is the "traditional multiplayer" now? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1 million?

    To answer the question on topic. what exactly is the meaning of "massive" is the key point and even if you avoid using M59's definition of "large-n multiplayer rpg" you still have to explain where you pulled your definition of "massiveness" in term of "traditional multiplayer" from.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Aysono Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
      http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
    Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.     Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?
    Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.  
    Taking this from the wikipedia:

    Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model. At the time, AOL was still charging per minute, though a change to flat fees was anticipated. The game received multiple awards, including the fantasy-role-playing game of the year for 1996. It also has had various updates throughout its life, each adding new monsters, spells, and areas. In its early years it was commonly conceived of as a graphical MUD,[2] though this term, and M59's preferred "MMPRPG", was eventually displaced by the now-ubiquitous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, a term coined by Richard Garriott of Ultima Online in 1997.[3]

     

    ^ Meridian 59's History". In Mulligan, Jessica; Patrovsky, Bridgette. Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders. pp. 363–371. ISBN 1-59273-000-0.

     

    I didn't read the publication but if it was true "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game" wasn't coined by Garriott, only that 3DO called it MMPRGP instead of MMORPG. Also please note that MUDs were also categorized as MMORPGs too and there were a lot of MUDs before M59.




    Now that's interesting. I'm not that familiar with Meridian 59 at all, other than it existed, it had ugly skeletons and it's considered an MMORPG.

    Keep in mind that we're talking about specific terms here. Richard Garriott did coin the term, "MMORPG" and the first game it was applied to was Ultima Online. MMRPG is a different term, doesn't look like it was used publicly, and nobody outside of 3DO used it.

    That does not mean Richard Garriott created the genre. He just coined the term, and was successful enough with UO to get the genre on the map. Any use of the term to refer to MUDs or anything else happened after Richard Garriott coined the term.

    I only brought this up because people were arguing about what the term means, and what it meant. We know what it meant. It meant Ultima Online.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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