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A cautionary tale...

ConsequenceConsequence Lake Worth, FLPosts: 358Member

So last year I preordered DF:UW after playing and enjoying the original DF. I had 2 accounts in my household and both were linked to previous accounts so as to get the discount.

 

However, sometime last fall I realized that this new game wasn't for me. So, just prior to release, I cancelled both my accounts  and the on going subscriptions.  I was concerned at the time that there is no way to delete your credit card information from their system.

A couple weeks ago I noticed a charge for the month of July his my account. I immediately submitted a ticket. My account was still intact, there was no password change and I had not been hacked in any way.  After having them close my ticket 3 times immediately following the initial automated response and for no reason, I finally  got a different automated response saying that there are no refunds, and that the security of the account was my responsibility....etc. The ticket was closed again.

 

I immediately resubmitted that the  account was not hacked, and that even if it had ben hacked the only reason this happened is because when you cancel your subscripion it does not allow you to erase your payment details. 

This is a long story short deal. But, in the end I am here to warn you guys about doing business with this company. I'm not concerned about my money, but I am concered that this VERY dishonest company still has my credit card information in their system and they will not allow me to erase it. So today I reported AV to the fraud department of my Bank(also cardholder.) I will get the money back.

 

I would recommend anyone who, like me cancelled your subscription, to review your CC bills. AV cannot be trusted and once they steal your money they will simply tell you "no refunds"

Comments

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Then you didn't cancel your subscription, even if you think you did...
  • WATSKIWATSKI Franklin Square, NYPosts: 37Member

    EA tried doing that to me after I subbed using Paypal. They refunded me once, claiming it was an error. I took screenshots showing my account was cancelled and made a note of any confirmation numbers they gave me and the conversations between myself and paypal. When they tried to do it to me again, I showed them, then just cancelled my paypal after the refund. Now I have three emails of their system trying to put back on the subscription but can't due to the account being closed.

     

    Always pays to be wise in the situations where you feel you can not get personal details back. Could be either party's fault, so the best idea is to always have proof.

    Aim Small, Miss Small.

  • injenuinjenu miami, FLPosts: 142Member
    Yea, they never charged me after I canceled by subscriptions.  Just have to use paypal so there's 2 sides to the equation in regards to having a reoccurring charge. 
  • ConsequenceConsequence Lake Worth, FLPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Then you didn't cancel your subscription, even if you think you did...

    Ok I know this not to be the case, but for arguments sake I will pretend it is the case. So lets assume I did in fact forget to cancel.

     

     

    Why, after the game has been out for a few months did they decide to charge me  randomly on for the month of July and only for the month of July? They charged me for a 1 month non reoccurring. If they account had not been deactivated, it would have been a 1 month reoccurring.

     

    Also, Why in my correspondence with them, after several attempts on their part to close the ticket, did they agree that the account was cancelled back in April?  In fact, they were treating this incident like it was a hacked account. I do not believe that to be the case, as all my password was intact(before I changed them to be sure) as was my character and his belongings.  However, even if my account was hacked, it brings me to my next point.

     

    Why wont they let me delete my credit card information from their accounts page, even without my subscription active I cannot delete that card #? No matter what explanation you come up with for my card being charged, it all comes down to the fact that they would not let me delete my information. I even Submitted a ticket back in April, on that account, asking them why they were not allowing me to delete my information. Like pretty much all ticket submissions, it was closed after an automated response.

     

    Not allowing customers to remove their charge information from the site is BEGGING for a disaster.  Sites far more secure than that 1 are hacked every day.

     

    You can try to turn this on me, but you will fail because it all comes down to that 1 simple fact. NONE of this  would have happened if my info wasn't stored on the site permanently.

     

    It doesn't matter to me, I easily got the money put back in my account with a simple call to my Bank and an honest explanation of what happened. The real problem is now Aventurine's as BoA actually has had multiple comlpaints even before I called them today. So the 2nd largest bank in North America now has  Anenturine on their Fraud list. If you don't believe me, call them if you are a BoA customer.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • OnodrimOnodrim Mesa, AZPosts: 16Member
    Lol this is no surprise. These guys are crooks. IMO of course.
  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    Come back when you have a decent sample size of non-playing DF players, even if most of your accounts are not subbed AV will still see your bank account or paypal account on their end and, if they do these sorts of things,  would be wiser than that.

    image
  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    Come back when you have a decent sample size of non-playing DF players, even if most of your accounts are not subbed AV will still see your bank account or paypal account on their end and, if they do these sorts of things,  would be wiser than that.

    Look in US we have PCI compliance and other rules to protect customer.  EU has similar laws.  No company including AV we be dumb to sneak in charges intentionally.  If they systematically does this, it is guaranteed they will be pretty much out of business and be in prison.  If you feel you got robbed by AV please go ahead take them to the court.  If you have evidence you will win and be compensated instead of making up stores in MMORPG to create Fear Uncertainty and doubt.  Tech AV can come after you with slander charges in US

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    1) Billing is not handled by AV directly

    2) There is a way to delete you credit card information, just delete it and then save. 

    3) I find it hard to believe you are just now noticing the charges.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by xpiher

     

    2) There is a way to delete you credit card information, just delete it and then save. 

     

    That's not true, it will be repopulated the next time you log in.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Billing is not handled by AV directly

    2) There is a way to delete you credit card information, just delete it and then save. 

    3) I find it hard to believe you are just now noticing the charges.

    I disagree with point 3.

     

    As human beings, we are 'programmed' to notice changes. It's quite possible to become used to a small amount of money being taken out of your account every month and not notice.

    This is why spies are trained to blend into the environment - we notice differences.

  • ThaliostThaliost LeiriaPosts: 99Member
    This happened to me once in DF1 times.

    Immortals [EU] - Darkfall:UW Clan
    http://immortals-online.eu/

  • BoognisheBoognishe Fort Myers, FLPosts: 83Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    I've never been car-jacked, therefore nobody has ever been car-jacked...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Consequence

     

    It doesn't matter to me, I easily got the money put back in my account with a simple call to my Bank and an honest explanation of what happened.

     

    exactly.

    And just make sure that they block any transactions from this company "just in case".

  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Originally posted by Boognishe
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    I've never been car-jacked, therefore nobody has ever been car-jacked...

    Does AV make billing mistake?  Like any company the have a chance of making billing mistakes. But my doctor is worse. People in here are making it sound like AV is running a scam like Bernard Madoff and leaching people left and right as a standard practice.  That is complete BS.

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    AV has a long history of "billing errors", if it's intentional or ineptitude is rather moot.  It's a risk you take dealing with them.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by Boognishe
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    This is all complete BS.  I have multiple DF accounts and never had any discrepancy in my bank statement.  I asked people in my clan and nobody had any kind of billing dispute with AV. 

    I've never been car-jacked, therefore nobody has ever been car-jacked...

    Does AV make billing mistake?  Like any company the have a chance of making billing mistakes. But my doctor is worse. People in here are making it sound like AV is running a scam like Bernard Madoff and leaching people left and right as a standard practice.  That is complete BS.

    Make up your mind!!! You basically called the OP a liar, now you're back peddling saying these things happen.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Originally posted by Consequence

    So last year I preordered DF:UW after playing and enjoying the original DF.

     This is a long story short deal. But, in the end I am here to warn you guys about doing business with this company. I'm not concerned about my money, but I am concered that this VERY dishonest company still has my credit card information in their system and they will not allow me to erase it. So today I reported AV to the fraud department of my Bank(also cardholder.) I will get the money back.

    Make up your mind!!! You basically called the OP a liar, now you're back peddling saying these things happen.

    So read what OP said above.  He said AV is a dishonest company (as if fraud is intentional) . That is a fat out lie. No where he said it could be an innocent mistake.  I stand by what I said. 

     

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by Consequence

    So last year I preordered DF:UW after playing and enjoying the original DF.

     This is a long story short deal. But, in the end I am here to warn you guys about doing business with this company. I'm not concerned about my money, but I am concered that this VERY dishonest company still has my credit card information in their system and they will not allow me to erase it. So today I reported AV to the fraud department of my Bank(also cardholder.) I will get the money back.

    Make up your mind!!! You basically called the OP a liar, now you're back peddling saying these things happen.

    So read what OP said above.  He said AV is a dishonest company (as if fraud is intentional) . That is a fat out lie. No where he said it could be an innocent mistake.  I stand by what I said. 

     

    AV IS dishonest, they've (Tasos) been lying to us for years.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • mackdawg19mackdawg19 Shiloh, ILPosts: 864Member

    I'm going  to make this easy for the so-called non-readers on this thread and to help the OP out:

    1. He was charged ONCE for a payment in July after cancelling in April.

    2. Aventurine is on several banks list reported as Fraud.

    3. They have several BBB complaints against them.

    4. Why do people still defend logic?

    Anymore? Quit messing with Aventurine, enough said.....

     

  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Originally posted by mackdawg19

    I'm going  to make this easy for the so-called non-readers on this thread and to help the OP out:

    1. He was charged ONCE for a payment in July after cancelling in April.

    2. Aventurine is on several banks list reported as Fraud.

    3. They have several BBB complaints against them.

    4. Why do people still defend logic?

    Anymore? Quit messing with Aventurine, enough said.....

     

    The legal definition of this is slander.  Bring up baseless stuff without any proof.  You think AV will survive if they have fraud case against them?  They will loose their credit card merchant license. 

    BTW are you not the same person that claimed exactly the same charges against Blizzard back in 2009 because of so called unproved "fraudulent charges" initiated by Blizzard for World of Warcraft?  

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • g0m0rrahg0m0rrah indianapolis, INPosts: 269Member
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Billing is not handled by AV directly

    2) There is a way to delete you credit card information, just delete it and then save. 

    3) I find it hard to believe you are just now noticing the charges.

     

     This has to be the worst company that I have ever dealt with.  I have had an open ticket for a while trying to get them to remove my credit card information from their site and they simply refuse. There simply is no way to delete it. I have tried deleting it from every possible avenue including re-subing and puting in a bad card. If the card is not valid it will not save the information.
     So your point 2 is invalid.

     I have screen shots of my account showing it is not set to renew yet at random I get charged.  In the end I just canceled the card.

     With every single MMO that I play, the first thing I do is remove all Credit Card information upon un-subing so these issues do not arise. Its funny how this company doesnt let you delete this information.

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    I haven't been robbed to the same degree as OP, yet. I hope it doesn't happen. But I was disappointed with AV when I pre-purchased DFUW and reserved my character's name as was promised as part of the deal. I entered my name and it said "your name is reserved." I couldn't believe my good luck because it was a very cool name (IMO, of course) and I though it would be taken. But since they said it was "reserved" I thought it was. Come game launch and I create my character and - bam. "Name unavailable. Already taken."

     

    So I open a ticket, not expecting much, but just pointing out to them what happened. They answered that they had "no record" of my name reservation. I thought that was dodgy. 

     

    I renamed and played and had fun for a while, but my image of AV was tainted after that. I would think they are more incompetent with the billing than criminal, but you never know. They are certainly not into customer service.

  • g0m0rrahg0m0rrah indianapolis, INPosts: 269Member

    This was my last response from aventurine support.  I told them that I do not have a serial key.  I assumed it would be attached to the purchasing account like every other game purchased on the internet. In the case of DarkFall, this does not happen. I game them my account name, which I can log into.  To remove my credit card information they want my credit card info and a picture of a gov. issued photo ID.  So they are asking for more personal information when the entire point of this exercise is to remove my personal information from the account.

    I highlighted the part that bothers me in red. If I am getting billed inappropriately the last thing I am going to is give this company more personal information for them to delete the information that they already have.  How hard would it be to set up the website so we can delete our own personal information. Pretty funny stuff...

     

    Dear Customer,

    Thank you for replying back to us. The serial key was provided to you at the time of your initial purchase of Darkfall: Unholy Wars Game Client and you were asked to secure it for future customer support issues.

    Understandably, vital information can be lost or misplaced, which is why we have a secondary verification process.

    As you do not have the serial key for your account, at this time we will require the below information, in full, for the original client purchase.

    For credit card purchases:
    1. Account name
    2. Original credit card that purchase the official Darkfall: Unholy Wars Game Client

    If Paypal was used, please provide the following information:
    1. Paypal Invoice ID or Paypal Transaction ID for Game Client purchase
    2. Full name and address of the or Paypal account holder

    For both scenarios, we will also require a photocopy of a valid Government issued Photo ID of the original credit card or Paypal account holder.You may send this information by either attaching a JPEG image to this ticket or via email to cs@aventurine.gr. Please make sure to include the Account Name, Server and the Ticket Number (from this ticket) on the email and to notify us of your action by replying to this ticket.

    Once we have received this information, we will try to resolve your issue as quickly as possible.

    Thank you,
    Darkfall Unholy Wars Customer Support

    Always Remember! Darkfall Unholy Wars employees will never ask for your password. Please never share your account details with anyone as this will seriously compromise the security of your account and influence the level of support that we can offer you.

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by g0m0rrah
    Originally posted by xpiher

    1) Billing is not handled by AV directly

    2) There is a way to delete you credit card information, just delete it and then save. 

    3) I find it hard to believe you are just now noticing the charges.

     

     This has to be the worst company that I have ever dealt with.  I have had an open ticket for a while trying to get them to remove my credit card information from their site and they simply refuse. There simply is no way to delete it. I have tried deleting it from every possible avenue including re-subing and puting in a bad card. If the card is not valid it will not save the information.
     So your point 2 is invalid.

     I have screen shots of my account showing it is not set to renew yet at random I get charged.  In the end I just canceled the card.

     With every single MMO that I play, the first thing I do is remove all Credit Card information upon un-subing so these issues do not arise. Its funny how this company doesnt let you delete this information.

    Cancelling you credit card is the only certain method to avoid future billing "errors" by AV. 

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

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