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Successful MMO without progression



  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,170Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sargos7

    I never once said anything about role playing games. I said mmos. Mmorpgs are massively multiplayer online role playing games, mmos are massively multiplayer online games. Yes, the heart of rpgs is progression, and yes progression appeals to a lot of people, I am not denying that at all. All I am saying is that there is a market for an mmo without progression.


    Perhaps it is the term successful that you are getting confused with. I am not talking about financially stable, I am talking about popular.

    Yup, scrolled up and checked. Still

    You are indeed correct, there is a HUGE MOBA market that could be called MMO, that generally lacks progression.


    Me, I play RPG for character "progression".

  • sargos7sargos7 Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 69Member Uncommon

    You're bringing up aspects outside of the combat progression, and I'm not questioning that at all. You're also saying 'the stats show' but not linking to any of them, which is kind of odd but since they supposedly show something unrelated to the topic that's kind of moot.

    If you feel those are relevant then we go back to the statement your post is based around:

    "A lot of people seem to think that a successful mmo without [combat] progression is not possible. I disagree."

    My question is then - Can you link to where you see this abundance of people that believe that, as games such as There, Kaneva, Second Life, and A Tale in the Desert have been around for almost as long as MMOs have.

    Now, if you are, in fact, talking about combat-based MMOs, then, again, Minecraft is irrelevant unless you have some kind of data showing that people are playing Minecraft primarily because of the combat. Your contention that combat is core to Minecraft is false, as one can toggle off the combat and enjoy the actual core features just the same. Many do. 


    So let's nail down what your stance is here so that we're all on the same page:

    • - There is a large group of people that believe that a combat-based mmo without combat progression is not possible.
    • - A combat-based MMO without combat progression can be successful
    • - There is a substantial community that is crying out for an MMO without combat progression

    Is that an accurate view of what you are presenting in this thread?


    Toggle off the combat? Are you serious? I'm talking about multiplayer Minecraft, on a server. SMP, as it's called, which stands for survival multi player. That means the game is set in survival mode, aka with combat, and you can't change it. SMP is the most popular type of Minecraft server. Combat is a core part of Minecraft, particularly pvp, although there are also mods that introduce new, more challenging mobs and bosses.


  • sargos7sargos7 Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 69Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by sargos7

    This comment doesn't surprise me at all, considering the date you joined this site. I'm not recommending you become a necromancer but there are plenty of dead debates about this subject on this site. I'm merely bring some fresh meat to the table.

    Nice try, but you missed. I've been here for years.

    Easy dismissal of a question you have no answer to?

    Given your previous responses, you feel that the Minecraft audience is big enough to do the job. Okay, how/why does another game company pry the Minecraft fans away from Minecraft? They seem happy enough where they're at--so, as a developer, what more do you offer them to steal the show and the cash?

    You can't just offer the same; WoWClone result. You need to offer them the things they already find

    Oh, I don't know, maybe real graphics, servers big enough to have thousands of people, combat abilities, all the features that people are making mods for included in the game itself, dungeons, quests, all the minigames, etc etc...


  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • sargos7sargos7 Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 69Member Uncommon

    You're also saying 'the stats show' but not linking to any of them


    Only 1688 up to date servers with mcmmo (4422 total up to date servers)


    Also, the total number of players on the average non mcmmo server is higher than that of the average mcmmo server. Just take a look and see for yourself, just don't read into the rankings- they are based on votes. Votes can be repeated, and incentives are given for votes. Also, a large number of the servers that do have that addon just include it as an option in one world (servers can have multiple worlds, with another addon) and such worlds are usually not actually populated with players.


  • JostleJostle Bradenton, FLPosts: 63Member

    Okay, I've caught up with the thread. Unfortunately, a lot of it has been snagging on semantics. It is clear that the OP is talking about mechanical combat progression. I completely agree that an MMO could work without any vertical progression. Gaining new skills and abilities through equipment is a form of horizontal progression, which it sort of seems like the OP is okay with. I think it could work.

    I do maintain my position, however, that there is nothing inherently unbalanced about progression. While I feel that customization (mechanical, not aesthetic) can work just fine without any progression, I do believe that progression aids in customization. If you can increase your chance to critically hit or do more damage at the cost of being less durable, for example, I think that proper implementation of progression is well worth it.

    The problem with many forms and instances of progression is that it goes too far. In some games, it seems to work just fine, but when you have progression that causes high level players to be gods compared to lowbies, a lot of problems arise. Several games have succumbed to population issues. Deliberately spreading the population based on a huge power disparity is pretty stupid. This can be solved with either no progression, or with much less vertical progression. Now that I think about it, a ton of issues can be solved this way. Elitism for one, while not being completely eliminated, could be heavily mitigated.

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