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Breakdown of new Xpansion Trailer

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  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by TheMaahes
     

    When it comes to Blizzard, the only thing I really hammer them for is stories, because they are consistently lazy. Not terrible mind you, but very basic and with little exploration of it inside the actual game. They need to constantly push their writers to come up with better ideas and intricacies. I don't have any beef with them using the plot line of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" (even if it is the same theme from the others), but there is no "meat 'n potatoes" in the story.

    I would prefer they spend their resources on stuff that matter more to me, like polishing combat (which they do).

    The story in D3 works. Given how much time i am spending on farming vs going through the stories .... i am glad they made combat fun.

    In fact, things like loot run in the expansion is 1000x more exciting to me, than any stories.

     

    Do not even discuss with this guy. He takes on Blizzard for having a lazy story in an ... Action packed dungeon crawler and then comes up with TL1/2 as being better games.

     

    What a joke this guy is.

     

    Listen ANYONE, yes ANYONE who comes up with such garbage as TL1/TL2 better then D3 should have his head examined.

    It takes exaclty 15 seconds to see the difference in ART style and ENGINE to see the TL garbage and D3.

    Not even talking about the excellent combo of hardcore play and hardcore economy (AH) in D3.

    Stop insulting our intelligence dude.

     

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon
    But if Malthael has fallen(well...I reckon he has, but seeing how High Heavens themselves tried to kill you for uncovering some secrets in D2, I wouldn't be so sure), what act made him go crazy?

    I take it for granted that you know about the balance...

    (If not I'll gladly explain)

    And Diablo's just fine. The problem is with the game and not with the setting(it being one of better settings I encountered). The game is what it is. A Hack n Slash. That's why I am rooting for Diablo classical(typical RPG set in Diablo universe). One simply can't Expect much from trite stuff such as beat em ups!/Hack n Slashes. While fun, they are very marginal in the story dept. which I find odd seeing how much time, money and, most importantly, love Blizz put into the lore of Diablo.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    One simply can't Expect much from trite stuff such as beat em ups!/Hack n Slashes. While fun, they are very marginal in the story dept. which I find odd seeing how much time, money and, most importantly, love Blizz put into the lore of Diablo.

    Agreed.

    The cut-scenes are all beautifully produced. The quality of animation is better than most animated movies out there.

    But at the end of the day, it is just gravy.

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member

    Originally posted by sportsfan

    Do not even discuss with this guy. He takes on Blizzard for having a lazy story in an ... Action packed dungeon crawler and then comes up with TL1/2 as being better games.

     

    What a joke this guy is.

     

    Listen ANYONE, yes ANYONE who comes up with such garbage as TL1/TL2 better then D3 should have his head examined.

    It takes exaclty 15 seconds to see the difference in ART style and ENGINE to see the TL garbage and D3.

    Not even talking about the excellent combo of hardcore play and hardcore economy (AH) in D3.

    Stop insulting our intelligence dude.

     

    You're the one that's a joke if you think aRPGs should even have an economy. They sub-genre itself has evolved into grinding out dungeons for items, not buying everything you need off an AH.

    And while aRPGs don't need stories (like I said in the same post that you quoted), Diablo's universe is extremely compelling to many people. So forgive us if we like to discuss it.

    Originally posted by Gorwe
    But if Malthael has fallen(well...I reckon he has, but seeing how High Heavens themselves tried to kill you for uncovering some secrets in D2, I wouldn't be so sure), what act made him go crazy?

    I take it for granted that you know about the balance...

    (If not I'll gladly explain)

    In the overall sense, the destruction of the Worldstone starts his "madness" and I'm guessing he encountered one of the Prime Evils who manipulated him to fall completely (remember, he disappeared quite a bit before the events in D3). Also (at your mentioning of balance), I'm not really sure Blizzard remembers Trag'Oul. The D3 story focused more on aspects of humanity and it being the rising power in the universe; which actually makes no sense when you realize how the Acts unfold. If Hell did indeed invade Heaven, Trag'Oul can very much stop the Prime Evil at will because it is his responsibility towards creation. Blizzard can probably just make the statement of "Trag'Oul's fixing of the situation was actually the Nephalem", but one can go a step further than that and ask "How does he keep the Nephaelm in check then? If they can swing the balance in favor of either faction, shouldn't Trag'Oul destroy the Nephalem entirely (since they actually helped create the Prime Evil)?"

    What would be interesting to see would be Malthael as Traq'Oul's Harbinger, come back to release the Prime Evils and destroy the Nephalem in an attempt to restore balance to where it was before Inarius and Lilith created Sanctuary. Afterall, Humanity in the Diablo universe has made the war between Heaven and Hell far more destructive and perilous than it ever had been before; best to get rid of the problem.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon
    Somehow I doubt that we're going to see Trag(or Trang-I prefer this one, love the ng sound). And it's a mighty shame indeed! But it is what it is(Blizzard). And they love action and awesome stuff. Complicated plots(Starcraft 1, Diablo 1+2 anyone?) are the thing of the past for them. The future is, sadly, filled with Buff looking characters and bazinga! KABOOOOM! explosions and other assorted FX. Shame.

    I completely forgot who were the Nephalem. If the memory serves, that term had to sth with Harrogath and barbarians. That and I keep mixing them with RL Nephilim lol! Tho that plot of yours sounds VERY interesting, I highly doubt It'd happen. One good reason is enough. When you ask Blizzard who are the Heroes, the answer you're going to get is "well those that Save the world and all the people". By acting against Malthael and Trang in that example of yours, our Heroes would just be helping Diablo himself lol. He'd try to fix the only error that Angels ever had, we'd resist, more errors would happen...

    OH HAI THAR DIABLO 4! (or another expansion)

    A good theory maah. Very good indeed.
  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Somehow I doubt that we're going to see Trag(or Trang-I prefer this one, love the ng sound). And it's a mighty shame indeed! But it is what it is(Blizzard). And they love action and awesome stuff. Complicated plots(Starcraft 1, Diablo 1+2 anyone?) are the thing of the past for them. The future is, sadly, filled with Buff looking characters and bazinga! KABOOOOM! explosions and other assorted FX. Shame.

    I completely forgot who were the Nephalem. If the memory serves, that term had to sth with Harrogath and barbarians. That and I keep mixing them with RL Nephilim lol! Tho that plot of yours sounds VERY interesting, I highly doubt It'd happen. One good reason is enough. When you ask Blizzard who are the Heroes, the answer you're going to get is "well those that Save the world and all the people". By acting against Malthael and Trang in that example of yours, our Heroes would just be helping Diablo himself lol. He'd try to fix the only error that Angels ever had, we'd resist, more errors would happen...

    OH HAI THAR DIABLO 4! (or another expansion)

    A good theory maah. Very good indeed.

    The original Nephalem were the direct offspring on Inarius and Lilith and they had the combined power of both races. Through a series of events, the descendants of the Nephalem lost that power until the destruction of the Worldstone at the end of D2 LoD. We then got the new generation of Nephalem (the characters we play in D3) because their power began returning with the absence of the Worldstone. Funny, that gives Traq'Oul even more reason to seek out their destruction; at least before they didn't have powers, now they do.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon
    So, only Diablo 3(which would include Diablo 2's barbarian as well) characters are Nephalem? Or are the protagonists of the other two as well? I don't think they are seeing how all the Heroes from Tristram(Diablo 1) have fallen. Warrior was...rather well known( ;) ), Rogue was known as the Blood and, if I'm right, that guy who impersonates the Summoner would be the Sorcerer from Diablo 1. Come to think of it:

    Is Diablo 3's barbarian just an older version of Diablo 2's? I got lost in Blizz designers' ideas. First it was, then it wasn't and wtf is it now? If you ask me, it is, but that could be true only for my barbarian because his name ends on -Kathos. I thought it wise if an actual heir of Bul's rose up to fight the evil( :D ). So are those two barbs(d2, d3) the exact same person?

    As to the lore: Would I be wrong if I said that twas Tyrael that doomed the sanctuary? I mean when he descended from Heavens above, so did Diablo ascend from the Hells below. In his perhaps rather zealous, but ultimately good intended act he unleashed the unspeakable. That which nobody should name, remember or depict. Him Himself-the Lord of Terror. Diablo.

    (How could Tyrael be so naive as to forget about the balance? Anyhow, I LOVE Blizzard's version of Prometheus-Tyrael himself. And how he brings doom instead of salvation lol)

    And I see that Tyrael just can't learn, can he? He stubbornly remains with the humans, IN the sanctuary as if he is provoking the balance to just churn its wrath upon the sanctuary. Because as long as he is there, the awkward shit is just going to repeat itself in various patterns. Look what happened to the poor world because of his intervention in Diablo 2-it nearly got destroyed! And now he is here again, hoping to help the humans. The only thing he is going to do is provoke evil to strike. And the only way for him to help the sanctuary is for him to simply withdraw and NEVER again meddle with affairs of mortals. Come to think of it, wasn't he punished in the High Heavens because of helping humans? But somehow I doubt that he is ABLE to LEAVE the humans to FEND for THEMSELVES. As long as his hubris stands, so long are the doors to the sanctuary wide open for the hordes of fathomless, unspeakable horrors from the Maw of Burning Hells itself.

    Dam that was inspired!
  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Is Diablo 3's barbarian just an older version of Diablo 2's? I got lost in Blizz designers' ideas. First it was, then it wasn't and wtf is it now? If you ask me, it is, but that could be true only for my barbarian because his name ends on -Kathos. I thought it wise if an actual heir of Bul's rose up to fight the evil( :D ). So are those two barbs(d2, d3) the exact same person?

    As to the lore: Would I be wrong if I said that twas Tyrael that doomed the sanctuary? I mean when he descended from Heavens above, so did Diablo ascend from the Hells below. In his perhaps rather zealous, but ultimately good intended act he unleashed the unspeakable. That which nobody should name, remember or depict. Him Himself-the Lord of Terror. Diablo.

    (How could Tyrael be so naive as to forget about the balance? Anyhow, I LOVE Blizzard's version of Prometheus-Tyrael himself. And how he brings doom instead of salvation lol)

    And I see that Tyrael just can't learn, can he? He stubbornly remains with the humans, IN the sanctuary as if he is provoking the balance to just churn its wrath upon the sanctuary. Because as long as he is there, the awkward shit is just going to repeat itself in various patterns. Look what happened to the poor world because of his intervention in Diablo 2-it nearly got destroyed! And now he is here again, hoping to help the humans. The only thing he is going to do is provoke evil to strike. And the only way for him to help the sanctuary is for him to simply withdraw and NEVER again meddle with affairs of mortals. Come to think of it, wasn't he punished in the High Heavens because of helping humans? But somehow I doubt that he is ABLE to LEAVE the humans to FEND for THEMSELVES. As long as his hubris stands, so long are the doors to the sanctuary wide open for the hordes of fathomless, unspeakable horrors from the Maw of Burning Hells itself.

    Dam that was inspired!

    No, they are not the same person.

    It would be wrong, yes. In The Sin War novels, the Burning Hells discover Sanctuary first and attempt to subvert control over it via the religion called the Triune. The High Heavens only become aware of its existence at the end of the conflict.

    Neither the angels or demons know of Traq'Oul's existence. Tyrael does what he does because he is blindly lead by the virtue he personifies, exactly like Imperius. When he destroys the Worldstone, you can actually see this blindness because he considers none of the consequences of the action, just that Baal tainted it and he needs to finish bringing Justice by destroying it. The fact that he became the Archangel of Wisdom at the end of D3 was after all his actions is simply wrong. He was a being created to be Justice, not Wisdom, and by saying his actions in the name of Justice were so Wise that he now personifies Wisdom is completely counter-intuitive. I've always seen him and Imperius as the same beast, and it's why I think Tyrael should wear the brass armor of the Warrior Pantheon instead of the robes for the Scholar Pantheon. They make the same rash decisions, except it's easier for the common person today to relate to Justice instead of Valor, and that is why he is the "hero" in D3.

    So, in a way, you are right in thinking Tyrael causes a number of problems. I wish we got to see the Angiris Council's reasoning for making him the Arch-Nephalem(?) of Wisdom. Imperius wouldn't vote for it, Itherael would abstain (like he always does; Fate simply has to run its course), Auriel would vote for it (blindly giving Hope regardless of reason), so who broke the stalement? One could argue that since Tyrael is now a Nephalem, Itherael casted a vote since he can't see that race's Fate, but that is counter to what he personifies, since he would be meddling in destiny and potentially altering it.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon
    I believe they are the same one. It makes more sense than the opposite, but Hey! We're talking about modern Blizz here...

    And the last statement explains quite a lot actually. It seems to me as if Blizz himself forgot about some parts of Diablo and just went for the "McKool" solutions. Whatever makes the least sense, but the most awesome/cool effects is what they choose these days. In all their franchises sadly.
  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    I believe they are the same one. It makes more sense than the opposite, but Hey! We're talking about modern Blizz here...

    And the last statement explains quite a lot actually. It seems to me as if Blizz himself forgot about some parts of Diablo and just went for the "McKool" solutions. Whatever makes the least sense, but the most awesome/cool effects is what they choose these days. In all their franchises sadly.

    Not overly thrilled about Brian Kindregan's description of the plot here.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon

    So, about my hardcore characters...

    From where do the Monk, Hunter, Wizard and Doctor originate? IE: what are the proper ways of naming them(besides stupid things :D )? 

  • PsychoticHamsterPsychoticHamster Brooklyn, NYPosts: 97Member Common
    The only Nephalem left is you the player. That's why he yell to fund the Nephalem, dragging you into the story.

    image
  • mrshroom89mrshroom89 madison, WIPosts: 224Member
    Hey bud I don't think anyone actually cares about the story in diablo. And clearly you never beat the hardest difficulty settings if you think people "beat it with their eyes closed". Most people quit because you would get face rolled so hard in inferno b4 the nerf (6+ months after release). Diablo is about slaying monsters and collecting loot, always has been always will be. Hence the largest selling point of this new expansion, random generates levels with random boss encounters.

    C

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,476Member Uncommon

    I care about its story. Hell, I ought to buy the Sin War trilogy. Should even.

    But then again, I could be the odd man out. Focusing on the wrong things xD.

    But yeah, beating the shit out of monsters and getting generous l0Ot is fun as well.

    p.s I hate how Diablo 3 forbids the use of these two signs: - '. So many nice names could be made with those two signs(hell they broke my Barb down to just Bron{or rather Bron with that scandinavian o with a strikethrough-sounds good?}). Doctors could use ' imo by adding 'Iar or 'Amo/'Amu. What a shame. You could do it in d2 btw.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    There are only so many stories, so many motivations, so many emotions and reasons in the world...

    If you weren't complaining about this, you'd be complaining about the other option(s) they could have taken.

    People say that they want complex characters, with complex emotions, and complex motivations.

    Yet they complain when they spend too much time in a game listening to dialogue, watching cut scenes, and/or reading text...

    And no matter how good the story is or isn't, the gameplay is what people really notice and respond to.

     

    And everything has been done before...

    Maybe this angel guy steals the stone... to protect it? Maybe he's really the good guy? More complex - but that's been done before too.

    Point is - there is no winning - only complaining.

    Complaining is easy.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    There are only so many stories, so many motivations, so many emotions and reasons in the world...

    If you weren't complaining about this, you'd be complaining about the other option(s) they could have taken.

    People say that they want complex characters, with complex emotions, and complex motivations.

    Yet they complain when they spend too much time in a game listening to dialogue, watching cut scenes, and/or reading text...

    And no matter how good the story is or isn't, the gameplay is what people really notice and respond to.

     

    And everything has been done before...

    Maybe this angel guy steals the stone... to protect it? Maybe he's really the good guy? More complex - but that's been done before too.

    Point is - there is no winning - only complaining.

    Complaining is easy.

    I agree.

    Stories in ARPGs are more or less just excuses to set up good guys killing lots of bad guys.

    D3 story works .. and it looks gorgeous ... and that is enough for me.

     

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Gorwe

    So, about my hardcore characters...

    From where do the Monk, Hunter, Wizard and Doctor originate? IE: what are the proper ways of naming them(besides stupid things :D )? 

    The Monk and Demon Hunter are both from certain orders with no exact location. While the Demon Hunters take no specific real-world cultural influences, the Monk seems to go the Mortal Kombat route mixed with Eastern European. The Wizard is from Xiansai which borrows heavily from multiple Asian cultures and the Witch Doctor is from Teganze which mixes Carribean and African cultures.

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