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What is some feature or thing you would hope to see in EQN?

2

Comments

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by coretex666
    Longterm vertical character progression. That would be so awesome.
     

    Really interesting, especially when i read your own "sandbox concept" thread linked in your sig. I will quote..


    Originally posted by coretex666
    ...
    What I think a problem with current games is that they are"
    1) Linear - You have zones, divided by levels. Towns with NPCs that give you quests which make you kill 10 wolves. Then you come back, get exp + gold and you are ready to move on to another quests, where you kill 10 birds for similar reward. It is practically just a way how to get to maximum level. The recently introduced dynamic events work the same way.
    2) Fast paced - You start at level 1. In one week, you are level 50 which is maximum level at which "the game really opens up". It doesnt...
    3) Rides - The game opens up at maximum level, so that you can go to do endgame content. You can choose from battlegrounds, raids, dungeons, arena, some meaningless sieges, quests,. Why? To have quick instant fun like if you play a race in Need for Speed.
    4) Everything is there since start - Again, you start at level 1 and the next day you are killing huge dragons and similar monsters. One hour after you start, you have a glowing sword as large as your body and full gear that makes you look like a raid boss.
    ...

    Looking at especially to your point 1 one would assume that you are against longterm vertical character progression, because it creates linearity and the typical gated content we are used to nowadays.

    Just out of curiosity, what changed your mind about that? That you now would rather see longterm vertical progression and a more linear, gated mmo?

    At that affects point 2), too. Without huge vertical progression you will not rush through the content.. and again affects point 3)


  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    Was UO a RPG, or any Ultima for that matter? You do have almost no vertical progression in any ultima game, and a lot more horizontal progression.

    Just to compare UO vs. any other MMO with vertical progression

    Starting Hitpoints UO 33. Maximum Hitpoints 100. Overall attributes 200 distributed to 3 attributes.. one responsible for Hitpoints.

    Any other game with vertical progression. Starting Hitpoints 10-100. Maximum Hitpoints anywhere between 2000-20000.

    The same is true for dmg.. UO does have almost no vertical progression.. and the recent games do have a huge amount of vertical progression. EQN will be much more like UO in that regard. And i think it is a good thing.. at it seems that you thought the same in the past.

  • jimprounerjimprouner Hooters, VTPosts: 142Member
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

     

    I tend to agree.  Giving everyone everything is a delusion of choice.  There is no choices involved, and not leveling involved.  Is there any meaningful progression at all in this game?   How is this an MMORPG?  Its just an MMO.

  • ReeperReeper Reno, NVPosts: 121Member

    Adventure, REAL ADVENTURE! can a game provide this?

     

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reeper

    Adventure, REAL ADVENTURE! can a game provide this?

     

    No. As long as you life is not on the line you can barely call it a real adventure.. and that is really impossible in a video game.

    And adventure generally speakin is a rather subjective term.. a lot of people will have an adventure other will not.. and that is true for almost any mmorpg out there.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    Was UO a RPG, or any Ultima for that matter? You do have almost no vertical progression in any ultima game, and a lot more horizontal progression.

    Just to compare UO vs. any other MMO with vertical progression

    Starting Hitpoints UO 33. Maximum Hitpoints 100. Overall attributes 200 distributed to 3 attributes.. one responsible for Hitpoints.

    Any other game with vertical progression. Starting Hitpoints 10-100. Maximum Hitpoints anywhere between 2000-20000.

    The same is true for dmg.. UO does have almost no vertical progression.. and the recent games do have a huge amount of vertical progression. EQN will be much more like UO in that regard. And i think it is a good thing.. at it seems that you thought the same in the past.

    Almost no vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    Limited vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    I stated long term, not excessive. I do not need to jump from 1hp to 1 000 000hp during the process. Cant you have a long term progression which would not make such a huge difference between players? I think you can.

    If you read the whole concept, I am clearly speaking about progression in the later parts.

    Georgeson stated that EQN has no vertical progression. I am asking. Is a game with NO vertical progression an RPG?

    Maybe it is subjective. I am trying to find out.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    a) i think pushing games (or anything) into a certain genre/drawer judged by one criteria to be quite ignorant - what if my understanding of rpg is different than yours? is it important that everquest fullfills certain criterias or be in a certain basket or that it is longterm fun?

    b) rpg simply means youre playing a certain role - just because most rpg's run on the basis of vertical progression doesnt mean they have to or that this is what defines them...the very first rpg's had none or just a very very slow vertical progression as far as i can remember...

    c) i dont think a strong vertical progression is beneficial or viable - especially for a sanbox pvp game - look at world of warcraft where this is in place...power creep will be a huge issue, especially when collecting various classes... newer players cannot compete or help older players, strong limitations of access and freedom due to the environment outleveling you or you outleveling the environment. - i only see drawbacks of vertical progression in an sandbox game...look at a moba - horizontal progression works better for sandbox, better for pvp and better for the longterm. Your character can still become more powerful by having access to more powers and variety etc...

    i personally also like horizontal progression and decisions more because i think they make the game experience much more richer and varied - instead of - do i take sword A with 5dps or sword B with 10dps, i want decisions like do i take the the heavy but slow sword or the fast but light...or do i switch between them depending on the situation.

    I think - as you describe - a very slow longterm vertical progression can work - maybe something like original d&d. The problem is just a) it makes it necessary and harder to develop new content on a constant basis and therefore developers have less time for other things imo making the experience worse for everyone and b) if the game runs many years it will still create powercreep. If were talking about an "high end" character being 50% more powerful than a beginner character - thats a different story than being 100x as powerful, but it still leads to issues in the longterm.

    Horizontal progression doesnt mean your character does not develop or become more skilled - i might also combine it a bit to a trading card game...there you also only have horizontal progression - "higher end cards" will not necessarily be better, but they are often more suited for a specific situation and therefore giving you more options to really tailormade and adapt.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    Only thing I like to see right now is my alpha or beta invite.

    After that I will see what feature's the game has, which might be feature's that could be  improved or which feature might be added.

     

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimprouner
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

     

    I tend to agree.  Giving everyone everything is a delusion of choice.  There is no choices involved, and not leveling involved.  Is there any meaningful progression at all in this game?   How is this an MMORPG?  Its just an MMO.

    I don't know. But i guess you missunderstand something. EQN does have progression. You don't have everything from the get go.. and you have to spread out and look for adventure and progress. And you have to decide, where to go, and what to do.. and that more or less all the time, without a linear path to follow as we are used to. But most of the progression will be more horizontally, like learning new skills, get access or master a new class, find new items and stuff like that. Exploring the world, and look for adventure on the way along and progress.. but more horizontally, instead of vertically

    What you will not have is a lot of vertical progression. With other words you Hitpoints will more or less stay the same, your base damage will stay more or less the same.. or just increase slightly.

    There are different difficult areas spread around the world, from Tier 1 to Tier 4. And the following is more a assumption from me.

    Tier 1 may be areas, where you can solo most of the content. Tier 2 may be areas, where you can maybe later on solo most stuff, but especially in the beginning a friend would be helpful. Tier 3 will be areas, where you really should have a few friends, or a group with you.. and Tier 4 is most probably the really difficult and dangerous stuff.. and larger groups could be useful. Something along that line. If you do know UO.. i guess it will somewhat similar, when it comes to world design. Although you do have all the destructable world, and the layers beneath you.

     

  • lumiyalumiya Lafayette, LAPosts: 6Member

    I'm truly hoping for different servers with different rule sets.  Such as having a group of servers labeled as "Classic" that have rules similar to EQ1 classic.  I would love to see those server incorporate naked corpse runs, exp loss, etc and an extreme emphasis on community so no Dungeon Finder features or anything like that.

     

    Similarly I would like some faction or alignment based PVP servers such as existed with VZ and PVP teams.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    1.  Ratonga

    2.  Ratonga that don't look like they escaped from the Lion King. 

    3.  Single-server - everyone plays on same server with population split into phases/instances/whatever (see TSW, Firefall, etc.).  I hate not being part of the same world as everyone else.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    a) i think pushing games (or anything) into a certain genre/drawer judged by one criteria to be quite ignorant - what if my understanding of rpg is different than yours? is it important that everquest fullfills certain criterias or be in a certain basket or that it is longterm fun?

    b) rpg simply means youre playing a certain role - just because most rpg's run on the basis of vertical progression doesnt mean they have to or that this is what defines them...the very first rpg had none or just a very very slow vertical progression as far as i can remember...

    c) i dont think a strong vertical progression is beneficial or viable - especially for a sanbox pvp game - look at world of warcraft where this is in place...power creep will be a huge issue, especially when collecting varoious classes... newer players cannot compete or help older players, strong limitations of access and freedom due to the environment outleveling you or you outleveling the environment. - i only see drawbacks of vertical progression in an sandbox game...look at a moba - horizontal progression works better for sandbox, better for pvp and better for the longterm. Your character can still become more powerful by having access to more powers and variety etc...

    a) Maybe I am a little rigid in this regard. I do not deny it. I think the inclination to classify things is part of human nature.

    b) Very slow vertical progression or limited vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression. It actually did have vertical progression, didnt it.

    From Wikipedia's definition of RPG:

    "Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development."

    Will EQN have any of these?

    c) I did not mention strong. I mentioned long term. At least for me, these two do not necessarily mean the same thing. I believe you can have limited long term progression that does not lead to what you describe.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    Was UO a RPG, or any Ultima for that matter? You do have almost no vertical progression in any ultima game, and a lot more horizontal progression.

    Just to compare UO vs. any other MMO with vertical progression

    Starting Hitpoints UO 33. Maximum Hitpoints 100. Overall attributes 200 distributed to 3 attributes.. one responsible for Hitpoints.

    Any other game with vertical progression. Starting Hitpoints 10-100. Maximum Hitpoints anywhere between 2000-20000.

    The same is true for dmg.. UO does have almost no vertical progression.. and the recent games do have a huge amount of vertical progression. EQN will be much more like UO in that regard. And i think it is a good thing.. at it seems that you thought the same in the past.

    Almost no vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    Limited vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    I stated long term, not excessive. I do not need to jump from 1hp to 1 000 000hp during the process. Cant you have a long term progression which would not make such a huge difference between players? I think you can.

    If you read the whole concept, I am clearly speaking about progression in the later parts.

    Georgeson stated that EQN has no vertical progression. I am asking. Is a game with NO vertical progression an RPG?

    Maybe it is subjective. I am trying to find out.

    Ok. I understand.

    Do you have a quote, where Georgeson stated that they have no vertical progression whatsoever?

    Because.. basicly, it is almost impossible. When you start with one skill, and get later on another skill your power will more or less automatically increase, even if the base damage stays the same. With other words you will have some vertical progression. The same is true with any item. As much as i know some items give you the abilities to mix different skills you couldn't mix before and that alone will make you more powerful and withit another vertical progression.

    I just can't imagine no whatsoever vertical progression. Hell.. we do even have some vertical progression in Battlefield 2-3.

    What i thought, and meant to hear, is that they will focus more on horizontal progression and will not have a lot of vertical progression.. but no. As i said.. i just can't imagine it.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    a) i think pushing games (or anything) into a certain genre/drawer judged by one criteria to be quite ignorant - what if my understanding of rpg is different than yours? is it important that everquest fullfills certain criterias or be in a certain basket or that it is longterm fun?

    b) rpg simply means youre playing a certain role - just because most rpg's run on the basis of vertical progression doesnt mean they have to or that this is what defines them...the very first rpg had none or just a very very slow vertical progression as far as i can remember...

    c) i dont think a strong vertical progression is beneficial or viable - especially for a sanbox pvp game - look at world of warcraft where this is in place...power creep will be a huge issue, especially when collecting varoious classes... newer players cannot compete or help older players, strong limitations of access and freedom due to the environment outleveling you or you outleveling the environment. - i only see drawbacks of vertical progression in an sandbox game...look at a moba - horizontal progression works better for sandbox, better for pvp and better for the longterm. Your character can still become more powerful by having access to more powers and variety etc...

    a) Maybe I am a little rigid in this regard. I do not deny it. I think the inclination to classify things is part of human nature.

    b) Very slow vertical progression or limited vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression. It actually did have vertical progression, didnt it.

    From Wikipedia's definition of RPG:

    "Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development."

    Will EQN have any of these?

    c) I did not mention strong. I mentioned long term. At least for me, these two do not necessarily mean the same thing. I believe you can have limited long term progression that does not lead to what you describe.

    Of course you will have character development. I never heard anything else. You will get more skills, you will find new items, you will get access/master new classes. You will progress. And as much as i assume you will slightly increase vertically and more horizontally. How it will be exactly? I don't know. But as i said.. i can't imagine no vertical progression at all.

    You will most probably not get any additional Hitpoints( or not a lot), or your base damage will not increase a lot. But i guess you will get powerful attacks, which actually increase your damage.. just not your base damage.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    i do understand what you mean...i still think it creates issues and that a moba approach will work better longterm...but i think a 1:1.5 approach can work as well...

    one thing tough, character development does not necessarily have anything to do with getting physically stronger - it just means your character develops over time/story. Every character in a book/movie usually "develops" over time...i dont think you can equalize that with "getting stronger", it just means your character changes, his perspectives, his motivations, his experience etc.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    Originally posted by coretex666

    Longterm vertical character progression.

    That would be so awesome.

    imo thats the enemy of any mmo and especially a sandbox game - horizontal progression seems a lot more advisable and give more longevity...

    Is a game without vertical character progression an RPG?

    Would counter-strike with roaming monsters, possibility to construct and possibility to find other classes which use different weapons, in persistent world be an RPG?

    Isnt developing your character the very core of any RPG?

    What genre is EQN. Is it adventure? Arcade game? RPG?

    Finding other classes is nice, but does it make a game an RPG?

    Was UO a RPG, or any Ultima for that matter? You do have almost no vertical progression in any ultima game, and a lot more horizontal progression.

    Just to compare UO vs. any other MMO with vertical progression

    Starting Hitpoints UO 33. Maximum Hitpoints 100. Overall attributes 200 distributed to 3 attributes.. one responsible for Hitpoints.

    Any other game with vertical progression. Starting Hitpoints 10-100. Maximum Hitpoints anywhere between 2000-20000.

    The same is true for dmg.. UO does have almost no vertical progression.. and the recent games do have a huge amount of vertical progression. EQN will be much more like UO in that regard. And i think it is a good thing.. at it seems that you thought the same in the past.

    Almost no vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    Limited vertical progression does not equal no vertical progression.

    I stated long term, not excessive. I do not need to jump from 1hp to 1 000 000hp during the process. Cant you have a long term progression which would not make such a huge difference between players? I think you can.

    If you read the whole concept, I am clearly speaking about progression in the later parts.

    Georgeson stated that EQN has no vertical progression. I am asking. Is a game with NO vertical progression an RPG?

    Maybe it is subjective. I am trying to find out.

    Ok. I understand.

    Do you have a quote, where Georgeson stated that they have no vertical progression whatsoever?

    Because.. basicly, it is almost impossible. When you start with one skill, and get later on another skill your power will more or less automatically increase, even if the base damage stays the same. With other words you will have some vertical progression. The same is true with any item. As much as i know some items give you the abilities to mix different skills you couldn't mix before and that alone will make you more powerful and withit another vertical progression.

    I just can't imagine no whatsoever vertical progression. Hell.. we do even have some vertical progression in Battlefield 2-3.

    What i thought, and meant to hear, is that they will focus more on horizontal progression and will not have a lot of vertical progression.. but no. As i said.. i just can't imagine it.

    In this video he says "We dont have vertical progression that you are used to. What we have is horizontal progression."

    I agree that new skills and gear make you stronger, so that it can be considered as vertical progression. I am just not sure if that is the progression which makes a game an RPG. Maybe it is just me, I dont know. This type of progression appears in other genres as well. In FPS, you are a soldier with gun. Then you pick up or buy a grenade which is like obtaining a new skill and suddenly you are stronger than you used to before.

    If I imagine that this game was not fantasy setting, but modern world where you play a soldier. Would the scenario above with the grenade make it RPG? Or a possibility to find other classes, such as sniper, support, etc?

    I talked to some people I know who are RPG / MMORPG gamers for decades and they all tend to agree. We discussed it and came to a conclusion that this game is not an RPG. It made me ask others on this forum what their opinion is. It may be subjective as I said. I am rather asking than trying to push my opinion to others. If you consider such game an RPG, it is perfectly fine and I respect that.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    i do understand what you mean...i still think it creates issues and that a moba approach will work better longterm...but i think a 1:1.5 approach can work as well...

    one thing tough, character development does not necessarily have anything to do with getting physically stronger - it just means your character develops over time/story. Every character in a book/movie usually "develops" over time...i dont think you can equalize that with "getting stronger", it just means your character changes, his perspectives, his motivations, his experience etc.

    Fair point with the development.

    I always inclined to think of character development either as getting stronger physically or mentally / intellectually.

    A respected scholar of 16th century John Amos Comenius once said that each day his character does not obtain a new level, he considers wasted. He was referring to himself in terms of mental / intellectual development. I always say he was the first RPG gamer :)

    Anyway, it seems that this is a subjective matter, so that some people may agree with me, some will not. I think I can live with that.

     

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon
    honestly, for me personally any mmo can not be an rpg because the stories are way to weak which i consider the most integral part of an rpg... but thats my personal view...anyway were a bit thread hijacking :-)
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    I get the feeling that people are either being too literal with what SOE says or injecting their own desires in place of what is likely.  Everything points to EQN having vertical progression in some fashion.  Tiers of gear.  Unlocking of classes.  Difficulty of areas (ex: tier 4 of the underworld).  Rally calls.

     

    To make content repeatable and interesting, RPG devs have found that the carrot on the stick works really good in MMORPG's.  It's what is being implemented in games that sell, with players returning for more.  To clarify, EQ:LandMark sounds more sandbox-like than EQN.  In EQN, even Rally Calls would need some form of personal progression when you think about it.... get your magic "number" high enough then you get to unlock a new class, etc.

     

    EQN being a hybrid is not a bad thing!  Players create content, but pure horizontal gameplay is rather boring (GW2 for instance).  Once you do something, get something, achieve something, it's not just a particular zone becoming obsolete, it's the whole game becoming obsolete.  Which IMO is much worse.

     

    If EQN has a hard cap that stops progression and makes everyone more or less the same without much else to do (for that build of choice), that could be the death of the game for some.  Go to the lowest depths and complete tier 4, unlock your latest and greatest class, then never return .. why?  because there is no reward, and the place is a PitA.

     

    I liked how EQ1 did AA's.  There were so many of them to choose from - it was next to impossible to get them all.  They unlocked convenience abilities, and gave players that little extra "OOMPH" to help get past their guilds current roadblocks.  It was a huge amount of work to get a mere +1% damage, or +1% mitigation chance, but it was progression.  Without stuff to keep players setting new personal goals, EQN will end up as a noob friendly game, where older players are few and far between.

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • krulerkruler PerthPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    To  have the faction complexity of EQ1 where you had Good and Evil but many many layers of grey, and if there is factional good versus evil, to make Evil actually evil in direct proportion to how they always make the Good side so damned right overly sickenly  sweet and F-ing fluffy.

    For instance my favorite race combos are Iksar Necro or Sk,  I want to feel like I am taking on an evil xenophobic naturally evil character , im cold blooded and I don't do F-ing Hugs or dancing.

    Give me the tools to create a character along its factional lines, let the evil side be griefers to a certain degree, make them feel hunted by the majority, but hunters of the few, give them enclaves and cities make the factional stuff truly a massive difference between races and roles chosen.

    Like Eve but with more safe options, I'm a realist, I like pvp, but prefer factional pvp, but at the same time I know that a majority would prefer PVE, I'm not sure how that would work, I have an idea of what I want, but even then there is a few conflicting notions.

    To condense it down then to make my feelings better understood, with all the talk of realistic graphics or not, dynamic this and that, all these things miss the point to me, what I want is a realistic character, (in the sense of a realistic personnel involment in a fantasy world)  I want a proper character that does things and is reacted to, probably a lot more so than EQN has thus far alluded to. 

    To clarify I am not talking about flagging or my name turning a dumb ass different colour, I,m talking about Evil races and classes being able to be what it damn well say's on the tin, and not a person choosing a Troll lets say for instance and doing all the same stuff that a person rolling a high elf does.

    Even after that long ramble I still don't think I'm making the point I want to make, suppose that's why it hasn't been done properly in a game to date, once you start thinking how you want, even as a player not a designer you hit these big walls of idea conflict.

    There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member

    Originally posted by Antarious

    Hmm like when someone gets caught exploiting and/or using unapproved 3rd party programs like speed hacks... they get perma banned.   Also that its reported to their ISP so they can be banned from net access for AUP violations....   (while the ISP thing could happen I would be happy to just actually see Eula/ToS enforcement.)

     

    I Guess you don't know why this isn't done yet, so I'll be the one to explain. Since hacking program isn't labeled by its creator "hacking program" in any way, the only way to identify it, is by looking for suspious behavior. Unfortunately this can never be done with good accuracy, so there are many legal applications that have no relation with the game whatsoever, like antiviruses, antimalware or even offline applications that are often mistaken for suspicious behaviors. So you would end up permabaning innocent people. Maybe you would get permabanned for no reason and I can already see you comming on forums angry and complaining about your own idea :)

     

    Originally posted by Gnostik

    I'd like to see a robust building/NPC system that people could use to set up shops that function even when they're offline. The NPCs would be "apprentices" that I could hire, train, and keep in the game when I'm logged out. They could sell my crafted goods to other players, and even craft basic items on commission, provided the mats were available.

     

    Would be nice to be able to write your own dialogue for that NPC and your own shouts, when someone comes nearby. It would bring back that old school market from old mmorpg's, that required some imagination and work to get a good deal. That would be a nice idea indeed.

     

    Originally posted by Burdoc101

    Wow great find! That sword and axe are really hidden in the layers, gonna keep looking for more items!

     

    I'm affraid it is just artists addition, nothing from actual game. Would be good though.

     

    Originally posted by Karteli

    Like making the combat more realistic, instead of arcade'ish moves and MoonBounce-like fights with particle effects instead of realistic choreographed combat.  Better fights than EQ1, but far less repetitive flashy-ness than GW2.
     

     

    I don't think this is going the way you want it so far, the fight on their live demos looked even more flashy then any game I saw so far.

     

    Originally posted by Reeper

    Adventure, REAL ADVENTURE! can a game provide this?

     

     

    Unfortunately, you need to go outside for this. I definately had more real adventures outside, but it might be just me xD

     

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    a) i think pushing games (or anything) into a certain genre/drawer judged by one criteria to be quite ignorant - what if my understanding of rpg is different than yours? is it important that everquest fullfills certain criterias or be in a certain basket or that it is longterm fun?

    b) rpg simply means youre playing a certain role - just because most rpg's run on the basis of vertical progression doesnt mean they have to or that this is what defines them...the very first rpg's had none or just a very very slow vertical progression as far as i can remember...

    c) i dont think a strong vertical progression is beneficial or viable - especially for a sanbox pvp game - look at world of warcraft where this is in place...power creep will be a huge issue, especially when collecting various classes... newer players cannot compete or help older players, strong limitations of access and freedom due to the environment outleveling you or you outleveling the environment. - i only see drawbacks of vertical progression in an sandbox game...look at a moba - horizontal progression works better for sandbox, better for pvp and better for the longterm. Your character can still become more powerful by having access to more powers and variety etc...

     

    a) I don't think anyone cares about "your understanding" of what rpg is. It is what it is. Games are not made to fit genre. Games are created and they are categorized into the genre by what they do. If someone during creation says "I'm going to make rpg", then you should expect everything from that genre, not from fps or rts.

    b) I guess you really don't remember far. Since the beginning when the genre took shape, even before d&d every game had vertical progression slow or not and it is what defines that genre. You are just making stuff up. Even if you can pull out one or two bastard games that had no progression, I could bring out tens of the ones that did, and majority is what makes genre isn't it?

    c) I don't think I should even touch that point, since like I said before it is all part of vertical progression that defines the genre, so it is also a part of genre. Don't say rpg this rpg that. Read definition of genre. There is no such thing as redoing a genre or modifying it, "Genres are formed by conventions that change over time as new genres are invented and the use of old ones are discontinued." You don't want mmorpg, you want something new, I want mmorpg. People who buy mmorpg, want mmorpg.

     

     

     

    Now, what I would like to see in EQN is slow vertical progression, the core of mmo and rpg genre. Decent difficulty, and some objectives be it story vise or mechanic vise that I would want to chase for many months. Old market system, where selling your items requires skill just like any other part of the game. Where you need to look for good prices, analize the market yourself, find good deals, find good places to put out a shop etc. etc. Grouping that is more profitable than soloing (just a dream).

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666

    In this video he says "We dont have vertical progression that you are used to. What we have is horizontal progression."

    I agree that new skills and gear make you stronger, so that it can be considered as vertical progression. I am just not sure if that is the progression which makes a game an RPG. Maybe it is just me, I dont know. This type of progression appears in other genres as well. In FPS, you are a soldier with gun. Then you pick up or buy a grenade which is like obtaining a new skill and suddenly you are stronger than you used to before.

    If I imagine that this game was not fantasy setting, but modern world where you play a soldier. Would the scenario above with the grenade make it RPG? Or a possibility to find other classes, such as sniper, support, etc?

    I talked to some people I know who are RPG / MMORPG gamers for decades and they all tend to agree. We discussed it and came to a conclusion that this game is not an RPG. It made me ask others on this forum what their opinion is. It may be subjective as I said. I am rather asking than trying to push my opinion to others. If you consider such game an RPG, it is perfectly fine and I respect that.

    Ok.. so it is as i thought. Because "We dont have vertical progression that you are used to. What we have is horizontal progression." does not say no vertical progression.. it only says not the amount of vertical progression you are used to the last years... so it will be more or less as i guessed similar to UO. Ok.. we don't know the exact amount.. only that it will not have such a strong vertical progression as lets say a game like WoW.

    About your Shooter example.. i expect a little bit more vertical progression, not just the upgrade from pistol to shotgun to maschine gun.. but it does not need a lot more to be regarded as a RPG.. and horizontal progression is as good for progressing, look at Fallout and you know it exactly.. it is called a RPG.. it is a RPG, and you don't have a lot of vertical progression either, but a hell of a horizontal progression, and a damn cool story.. or as i already mentioned the Ultima series or some others, or to go back to MMORPGs like UO.

    But as from others already mentioned.. it is rather off topic, and finally if you like it or not, if you agree or not.. is more about preference than anything else. But i wouldn't be as worried about that.. you will have some vertical progression.. i can bet on it.

    For me personally is important, that it is not huge, that it is similar to UO, that the world as a whole stays intact all the time, but nevertheless have the feeling that your character actually advance all the time. And i never had the feeling not to advance in UO, although my hitpoints hit maximum rather fast.. but with all the different skills, learn that, learn this, experience the world, i always thought my character advanced.. and although it was totally not that much vertical progression, it felt sometimes even more, because you stayed in that one world.. and you fought the same monsters(like a wild bear) as a veteran, but you actually were, and felt more powerful.

    I just never liked the gated content, the different level areas, all the world felt small, because you actually had 10% or less of the total world at your disposal.. everything else was either far above or below your level range. And the same with the split up of the community, or that you couldn't play with your friends, because they could not invest as much time as yourself.. all that was never a problem in old UO.. and i am happy that EQN will be somewhat similar.

    And hopefully in EQN the world will be actually dynamic, so that you visit one area a few month later, that you really experience completely different as the first time.. with that it could really be possible to enjoy a game a lot longer than the typical 1-3 month of the recent mmos, and invest yourself again for years in one world, in one game.. that is it what i really do want from EQN.

  • GreenWidowGreenWidow little rock, ARPosts: 157Member

    I would like EQ's graphics and lore and game richness with the solo friendly experience of wow.

    I don't play games to have a second job or to deal with adolescent jerks.  I want to relax and explore and enjoy myself.

    “Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.”The Iron Code"

  • Univers0Univers0 SydneyPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Allein

    Originally posted by Univers0
    A continent with faction-based pvp.  Just to throw it out there, Velious has dwarf and giant factions, players alligned with opposite factions can attack each other and similarly it can be on a larger scale such as defence of Kael.

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    open world pvp with restrictions of some kind and also some kind of faction(s)-system...

    As a self-proclaimed PVPer, I'm having a hard time seeing how PVP will fit into the new lore which has less focus on racial tension and god alignments or factions.

    If the world is huge, they could have giant sections for guild structures and land to capture/attack, but I can't see the point besides simply throwing us PVPers a bone.

    Really hope they have something meaningful in place and not just leader board grinding arenas. I prefer when PVP isn't a side mini game, but that is hard not to do in most games.

    Wildstar's 40 vs 40 guild designed Warplots sound interesting and something EQN could probably crank up a notch. Guilds could design their own battlegrounds and could have "friendly" battles which could be interesting. I loved DAoCs lower level battlegrounds that didnt have much importance, but were always fun. A player or guild could easily design something better, visually.

    PVP is probably the only thing I'm worried about EQN not doing well, seems they have pretty much everything else someone could ask for. It is also what I end up focusing on in most mmos, hopefully they get it right. If not there is sure to be plenty to do.

    If they will have a crafter class, maybe one of the 40 classes will be a pvp one with player vs player only abilities so that it does not affect game balance at large.  Sure it is wishful thinking but since they are determined to reimagine mmo genre, it could be on their list.  I personally despise arenas as they serve no roleplaying purpose. 

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