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Originally posted by Arndush Originally posted by JasonJ "Just a few days after it was announced, I am already sick of all the talk surrounding the price model of Elder Scrolls Online. I do not understand..." We know you don't understand, you are disconnected from reality and gamers are SICK OF ALL THE MORONIC DEFENSE OF AN OUTDATED PAY MODEL DESIGNED AROUND A LIE."
He just said what he thought they needed to do in order to succeed. That the content and quality of the game was more important than the pricing model. He didn't say that they were actually delivering.
No, he told us to stop complaining about the price model and then went on to speak about how we will be getting what we always get from Bethesda games...something this is NOT. Zenimax Studios is NOT Bethesda and even went so far as to tell us the game is all good by giving a bunch of company talking points.
This is just a mouthpiece article.
If it was written by someone able to give an actual personal opinion and not a corporate one the first paragraph would have ended with something other than "That is the real question we should all be asking, and ultimately the payment model will matter less than this important fact." Because the IMPORTANT FACT coming from the vast majority of people complaining has NOTHING TO DO WITH WANTING A FREE MMORPG...since the majority of those complaining DONT PLAY MMORPGS, they play TES GAMES.
The IMPORTANT question is WHY IS ZENIMAX trying to target TES fans, trying to distance themselves from the MMO label to get those fans, yet are doing everything they can to seem to drive those very fans away. A monthly sub is just ONE in a LONG LINE of WTFH are you doing moves!
Stop acting like this is the first time there has been a massive outcry from TES fans about this game.
"There is one thing people forget about MMOs when talking about the hype of the price model and it is simple…is the game in question good? Zenimax Online has a much bigger responsibility to meet for its players and that is to build a solid game. That is the real question we should all be asking, and ultimately the payment model will matter less than this important fact."
This exactly. But from what we know so far and the fact that the game will be released on consoles, I really doubt it will be worth 15$/month to play. I also really doubt we will see a decent playerbase on console, I don't know many consoles players who will be willing to pay to play a game.
So, IMHO, the games has more chances to become F2P soon after it's release or the player base will just start dropping quickly since most people will be disappointed to pay that amount of money to play the game and will switch to the new ones. If we have a "Skyrim Online MMO" experience, then sure most people wouldn't care about this payment model, but seeing how the game is, it's not worth a sub at all IMO.
No themepark MMO since vanilla WoW had the quality, content, fun aspect to be worth a sub and I highly doubt ESO will change that. Just like I wouldn't pay a sub to play GW2.
Originally posted by Darth-Batman As long as its not a sub with an item shop. Its still hard to pay for a sub after playing gw2 though but I am an elder scrolls fan so i'll have to give it a try, at least for a month.
It will have a shop. What items it will have we don't know yet.
OK...your going to have to pay 2x
-the game purchase
-the monthly fee
All I can say is they better have one heck of an open beta.No way I'm paying and hoping for a game I like.
Originally posted by Brabbit1987 Originally posted by rygard49 Originally posted by Brabbit1987 I somewhat feel this is totally the wrong way to look at it. Ya sure, as long as the game is good people are willing to pay. However, just how many are we actually talking about here?
How many what? People?
Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to. Of course where it stands, it all comes down to quality. However, there is a point where the difference in quality is so little, that the price doesn't seem worth it, unless you are an enthusiast. ESO from what I have seen doesn't show nearly enough for it to really justify it to cost $60 +$15/month.
Saying money isn't a concern if the game is good, is just simply not true at all. This is the same reason why people don't go out to the store buying the most expensive of what they are looking for. They usually try to get the cheapest or something in between if they are able to.
There's a cost/benefit analysis that runs in your mind before making any purchase. Is the product you're buying worth the amount that you're willing to spend? You performed that same subjective analysis in your last paragraph.
Here's where I take issue with your post. You assert that people never look for the most expensive whatever-it-is, and they only look for the cheapest products. That may be subjectively true for you and some others, but certainly not true for most people, and certainly it's not as dumbed down as you try to make it seem.
Most people have a budget set for their purchase, and an idea for what worth you're going to get from that budget. If your budget allows for the most expensive stereo, and the most expensive stereo has every feature you want that the others don't, and a better quality, you're going to get the most expensive stereo. If there's a less expensive model with most of the features you want and reasonable quality, you might decide to save some money and get that. It's all on dependent on that cost/benefit measure going on in your head. What will get you the most value for the money you're about to spend.
That's the point here. It doesn't matter what the price model is. Game boxes are all the same price on release anyway, and whether you pay a sub or buy items from the cash shop, all that truly matters is whether the game is worth that expenditure.
For you, it isn't. On to the next game then.
I agree with what I say here, but that doesn't change the fact you are paying for the most expensive and getting quality in return. My point was, you don't get the most expensive if the quality isn't that much different.
Example: A quality car you can buy for $20,000. However, there are cars that cost upward beyond $100,000 to $1,000,000. People don't just go out and buy the most expensive thing like that. Of course they follow their budget and it also has a lot to do with quality.
Also, you are right, if people HAVE the money, they are more likely to pay more for something. That doesn't mean the price is justifiable. Someone can be bad all they want with their money. That really wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Even if there is a percentage of people that pay for the most expensive item, just to do so, doesn't change much. That percentage is very likely to be fairly low.
I think you are missing the point a bit. Below a certain price point, the average person just isn't going to place price very high up on thier list of considerations about making a purchase. Where that exact point is will be different for everyone both based upon thier personality and the percentage of thier income (and overall financial situation) the purchase represents.
For example, a car is a very large expenditure compared to most peoples incomes. The price being charged is going to factor very heavly in the purchasing decision. On the other hand, alot of folks aren't going to fret much over the cost of fries at McDonalds vs the cost of fries at Burger King if they take thier kids out to eat once a month. It'll be whatever the kids like better or whatever is in a more convenient location for Mom and Dad or the place that looks cleaner or that has the "friendlier staff", etc....alot of people won't even be able to tell you what the price of the fries are off the top of thier heads.
It's all about what the cost represents to the person. If it's not percieved as much of a hit out of the wallet....it just doesn't enter into the purchasing decision all that much.
Originally posted by Kaynos1972It all goes down to the fun factor. If i'm having fun i have no problem paying 15$ a month.
The Stranger: It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid.
Originally posted by brihtwulf I think the argument that the game has to be pay-to-play to be quality or not force you to buy things is not a fair one. Look at Guild Wars 2, for example, or Defiance. I think the issue that needs to be considered here is "what is this game offering me that the others aren't, and is it worth paying full price and $15 a month for that different aspect?" Yes, it is about fun first and foremost, but there is also the important factor of competition and don't forget player expectations. There are many ways to do "free to play" and a variety of hybrid models that have rewarded subscribers while not "punishing" more casual players who don't want to pay full fees for a game they don't regularly get on. There are a lot of casual gamers coming into the MMO genre, and many adults who have been part of it for over a decade but now have families and other responsibilities that make them play less often. So, subscriptions are often a reason for those mature gamers to quit playing or avoid starting because they feel like they are wasting money to play 15-20 hours a month.
Even if you play 15 hours in the whole month... Its still 1$ an hour ; where can can you get enjoyment for that amount ?
dont teat at mcdonalds two times in the month and youve got your money and youre heatlhier. See ? MMOs make you healthy ! Lol
It's tough. I payed a sub fee for World of Warcraft for probably 4-5 years. That's almost $1,000 and I don't regret it. Not all anyway (looking at you, Mists...). I'm sure that if the game is good, it's well justified, blah blah blah.
Consider this, however. Right now I'm playing a fantastic game that has tons of content, is updated regularly, and has recently gone sub-free: RIFT. Having purchased Guild Wars 2, I could log into that and play completely free of charge for the considerable future, and that game is also great and updated regularly (almost too much so, imo).
I just need more incentive than that. ESO, Wildstar, and FFXIV need to consider that they have more competition than just each other and other sub games, there are some very powerful free to play contenders in the mix.
And lets not forget the looming giant EQ Next is supposedly Free-to-Play as well...
Bottom line is that I might like to play all three ESO, Wildstar, and FFXIV. But I'm not going to pay $45 a month to sub to all three. And I doubt few people will. If they were f2p, I'd likely play all three, and perhaps spend $5 or $6 in each per month.
I'm buying two accounts and subbing both of them, because I can afford it and it pisses the F2P people off. lol
Originally posted by turinmacleod I'm buying two accounts and subbing both of them, because I can afford it and it pisses the F2P people off. lol T
And you are entitled to do that, but you're not really pissing anybody off. There was a time when I had subscribed to 5 different MMOs simultaneously. I could do so again, and on top of that I could right it off on taxes. However, with my professional commitments, I cannot afford the time to play games the way I used to. I only play casually, perhaps 2 hours a week at most. It's simply a waste to subscribe to multiple games.
Making a column about not talking about it seems a round about way to do just that. SO I will bite and say its fine to ask for sub its not fine to add a cash shop on top of that.
Now to gameplay, It will probably have the best AI of any ES game. As most ES games have horrible AI its not hard to achieve.
Rest is pretty much a wait and see for me, notice I wrote see not experience. As is ESO offers little to nothing that interests me in MMO format. I am more interested in the next fallout.
Originally posted by JasonJ "Just a few days after it was announced, I am already sick of all the talk surrounding the price model of Elder Scrolls Online. I do not understand..." We know you don't understand, you are disconnected from reality and gamers are SICK OF ALL THE MORONIC DEFENSE OF AN OUTDATED PAY MODEL DESIGNED AROUND A LIE. And I really REALLY love how your article says we should focus on the game yet you do not mention ONE SINGLE thing being spoken about by so many beta testers, the piss poor graphics, the Funcom level of bad animations, the combat limitations and the story that doesn't meet up to TES standards. So, go on ignoring the FACT that the internet is ablaze by TES fans talking about how they wont pay to play a game they buy and act as if its just MMORPG players that want a free game. Zenimax is missing their target audience you and playing dumb is only going to insure the fact that this game will be another SWTOR...you know, that OTHER MMORPG that has massive issues due to blind fandom and ignorant developers. And no, SWTOR is not doing well, EAs parting CEO admitted to the lies as he walked away to apologies to shareholders, your whitewashing it and not reporting the facts doesn't change the fact that the game didn't have half the subs EA was saying, nor making near what they were claiming. Face reality, get Zenimax to wake the EFF up to save it from being just another quick money grab fail.
So if you where the boss how would you pay everyone and expect your company to make money???? I loved to know, TOR has made there money and then some, so not sure what your smoking....
If you people think 60 bucks for a game is to much and a monthly fee go find a new hobby because i'm sick of people whining they want everything for free and expect me to work for free , How about you work for free, get a job something, so tired of hearing this about this game.
F2P is a bad model its simple, most community's suck when it has that model, 15 a month is cheaper then the cash shops by far and far more worth it.... If you can't handle this please find a new hobby , because teh prices are going up, and after all the software I have to buy and the schooling I had, I think games should be 80 or more.... Not 50 or 60.
Originally posted by VoreDock This is just wrong yes i will pay for ESO but i will never SUB again i'm not a 20 year old kid with no life and 70+ hours of free time The right way to go is the GW2 way a box price + a cash shop SUB'S are what every company in computers wants and it's wrong you would not pay a sub for windows so why for a game GW2 has made over $200 mil and ESO will blow that away a sub is a betrail of all us old school fans that have been with TES from the start back in the 90's
Lol and look how great GW2 is doing with that so called model, sub model is so DEVS can add and add more content on a monthly time frame. Not wait for years to give a expansion...
Not all companys can use this model, all depends on the game and how its ran , people think its that simple to thow a model on a game and call it a day, well its not...
Low population is a death nail for any MMORPG and certainly F2P can help alleviate that, but my experience has been that sub games have retained my interest longer than F2P. DAoC and WoW kept me interested much longer than Rift or GW2. No matter what, I think a company is better going P2P first, then going F2P if needed, but DAoC and WoW are still in ch-ching mode.
Boxed price + sub + cash shop = WoW mode. Pretty much impossible to argue against that.
The problem with the typical p2p launch. If the game is fun, most people will not know, because there is typically no trial and no way of knowing if it is fun. It throws up a barrier to entry that many will not breach for the 'promise' of a good game.
At this point in my MMO career (yes I said career ) I would not be willing to pay $60 for the chance to try a game that is said to be 'good'. Myself and many have been burned by that game a few to many times. Subscription or not.
Many customers in this economy are gun shy, I speak from many years experience.