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Will SWTOR ever recover?

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  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Voqar

    Solo ez-mode MMORPGs where you have 95% solo content, not enough group-based content, and nowhere near enough challenge, end up getting played like single player games by most players.  Finish the solo ez-mode in a few days/weeks, maybe dabble in the weak endgame, and done.  Hardcores obliterate the solo ez-mode and mow thru the endgame and end up done pretty fast too.

     

    SWTOR is just one of many such MMORPGs with the same poor design.  When you spend years and millions developing single player content that gets vaporized in days and spend little time on group content, endgame, or PvP such that endgame and PvP are usually incomplete, unbalanced, or worse at release...is it any wonder that player numbers drop dramatically shortly after release?

     

    F2P isn't a solution.  It might make a few bucks or get a few new and different people to try the game but it doesn't fix the overall problem of MMORPGs that aren't really MMORPGs and that are glorified single player games.

     

    It doesn't help that SWTOR just isn't that great of an overall game.  Some of the content is decent to play thru once...and unfortunately the solo content is probably the best content in the game....which isn't good for an MMORPG.

     

    no mmo will ever launch with complete PVP and endgame content

    they cant finish these, without the numbers and stats from actual users

    even WoT are still tweaking the numbers each patch,,what does that tell you?

    and they cant spend too many resources on them either, they need most on the casual content and bughunting

    in short: youre best off in a hardcore niche game,,casual themeparks are almost bound to disappoint you

    PS! holy..i just saw the EA logo in the TSW ad,,is this true? is EA really responsible for THREE of the

    biggest mmo failures?

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,006Member Uncommon

    It's recovering so well, that they just merged their Asia Pacific servers, the other night, with their Western ones.  /sarcasm

    They had one chance to recover (jk, there never was a chance), with f2p, but blew it.  It's too restrictive and not enticing.  It's actually a detriment for new players.

    The core game is still flawed though, so any hope of a recovery will not matter.

    Major flaws of Swtor:

    • Traveling/Zoning is akin to EQ2 at it's launch.  A very flawed system when most time is spent on clicking buttons, and watching loading screens.
    • Character Species are all humanoid, and there is no variety.
    • Mirrored classes for each faction.
    • 4 starter zones with 2 species sharing one.  Limtied replayability from the start, akin to EQ2 at it's launch.
    • Extreme linear gameplay.  You need to literally quest from A to B to C to progress through a zone.
    • Zones are disjointed and not explorable.  A friend told me earlier that they should've made several gigantic planets instead of so many smaller ones, which would've been a better idea.

    There's obviously more that can be added, but these, in my opinion, are the major ones that made swtor fail.  And by fail, i mean going from almost 1 million players, and over a hundred servers, down to 8 total (NA).  No amount of spin can be positive when swtor had a budget of $100+ million, then goes f2p in around 6 months.

  • PocahinhaPocahinha cidadePosts: 550Member
    No
  • SheritsukiSheritsuki londonPosts: 8Member

    I recently downloaded the F2P version.

    I was a subscriber from Day 1 and stopped my sub in June - very close to the Hutt Cartel Expansion.

    So I skimmed the stickies quickly before redownloading it and thought "what the hey!" - I'll have preferred status and a bunch of Cartel Coins to spend up and purchase a few unlocks.

    So I log in and firstly no Cartel Coins for me =( Seems I stopped subbing a few days before some release deadline so get nothing. Kick in the teeth, but oh well.

    Had an issue with reactivating characters. No worries, contact support quickly - never had any issues with them before. Oh... Wait. I get NO ingame support whatsoever, no forum access to pose a simple question and no email to send them the problem.

    It's cool - I sorted it with several restarts. Yay - I'm playing ... and yes .. I am actualy enjoying it (so Nyahh!)

    I liked the graphics. I liked the Storylines. Hell I even like the Space Combat. I raided alot when I first started so all my toons had pretty good gear - but I need to now purchase the expansion to actually start using them. No worries. You know what ? I like Star Wars. I liked this game. Screw it - I'll buy the expansion. Oh! Wait! I hammered the buy now buttons but it never progresses to a payment screen. K, so I tried 3 different browsers over 2 days. No luck. I want to buy. I can't. I also cannot contact support. Yay!

    Ok. You know what I want an MMO (or close) to play atm, so I think I'll actually sub. Maybe this will make buying the expansion easier or give me another option. I doubt they'll refuse my money ... lol (?)

    Yeah, you guessed it. I cannot sub either. Brilliant. I am (was) willing to buy the expansion and am (was) willing to sub. I can't contact support unless I phone at a cost or install Skype. Can I be bothered to jump through hoops now ? Not really if I am honest.

    Will SWTOR ever recover ?

    Highly skeptical about that. If you cannot even organise a system whereby your customers, new or returning cannot actually give you any money. Also - who's fantastic marketing idea was it to stop you contacting even the most basic of support ?

    What I will do is continue to tool around on my low level toon for free until I'm bored or something takes my eye and maybe even my cash.

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon

    so, you wanted to give them Money, but you couldnt,,sounds like divine intervention to me

    now you have to sacrifice 21 virgins to the God of Games, a fair Price , for saving your soul

  • LordSquirrelShowLordSquirrelShow saginaw, MIPosts: 4Member
    Personally. I wish they would just make this a single player game so they can actually focus on improving on the game itself instead of the d*mn pvp.
  • GrummusGrummus Nantucket, RIPosts: 125Member
    TOR would've been better off if they'd went the route of massive single player RPG with actually open terrain.

    Oh, and a engine not written by a group of mentally deficient chimpanzees.
  • LordSquirrelShowLordSquirrelShow saginaw, MIPosts: 4Member
    You sir just made my day.
  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Keylogger_007
    TOR would've been better off if they'd went the route of massive single player RPG with actually open terrain. Oh, and a engine not written by a group of mentally deficient chimpanzees.

    the version, they use is the Alpha version, it isnt  ready for use yet

    and it wasnt made to run a full game , only  to do short demos

    so, theyre´basically trying to rebuild a lawnmower, to pull a plow

  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member

    Think of it like a CEO would. Would you invest millions more into a game that has so missed the mark and already gone through massive downsizing? Probably not. 

     

    Look at your own playing group or guild. Ask your friends who played the game at launch and about their guilds. I would venture to say that over 90% of the people you talk to already quit and would never come back.

     

    As for "fixing" the engine. That's not what SWTOR's team does. They licensed the engine and use an unsupported version. They arent the creators and cannot service it themselves. They went against the advice of the Hero Engine team themselves and used a broken version of the engine and now they are stuck with it. Forever.

     

    From top to bottom SWTOR was a massive miscalculation. 

     

    Now: Skyrim
    Later: ?
    Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
    BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon

    not true,,they did some things right, too

    the companion system was the best part IMO..on par with the best in the business

    the stories was mostly good, bioware quality

    but everything else was standard, or below

     

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member

    Someone mentioned previously about the player limit per instance, it's 250 right now, I remember it used to be 350 and in the first couple months back in 2011-2012 the fleets easily had 2-3 instances.


    But ever since then the fleet hasn't looked anything like this (Dec 28, 2011):
    image

    image
    image

  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Ganksinatra

    I love how the overwhelming consensus is that this game is a fail pile in a sadness bowl, yet a handful of fanbois come here and claim, without ANY proof whatsoever (all while claiming those that dislike the game did the same), that their game is thriving and amazing. The game sucked. I wanted it to be good SOOO bad, but it was really, really bad. The end game was ridiculously stupid and simplistic. The community was full of WoWtards who switched over to be the new elitist asshats on the newest game. Leveling, outside of the class stories, was repetitive and boring. 

     

    You can continue to claim your game isn't a coiled, steaming pile of crap, or you can admit it wasn't what it should have been, stop throwing good money at bad, and vote with your dollars, effectively forcing EA to make changes and stop bending you over with the cartel shop.

    I don't recall anyone stating the game was amazing or the best MMO ever....what a lot of people are stating however is that they are enjoying the game for what it is and having fun. I am sorry you clearly disapprove of this sentiment.

    Does the game still have issues? Of course it does, however if you cannot acknowledge the fact that the game has made great strides in recent months in terms of financial performance, content releases and a general more upbeat attitude in the game (I KNOW as I ACTUALLY PLAY) then you are simply a butt hurt troll who ignores anything that does not support his narrow minded opinion.

    You clearly hate the game, more power to you, but really? Why do you need to be so venomous towards anyone that DOES enjoy it? That attitude makes YOU look like 10lb of sad in a 5lb bag to the entire internetz lol...what a tool!!

    The truth is you are a little puppy who only feels validated if he is playing a game that the internet tells him he will enjoy rather than playing the games he does enjoy, or even thinking for himself.

    Is SWTOR the best out there? No. Do I pity you? Absolutely.

    Driz

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

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  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

    That would be an accurate and honest appraisal of the current climate in game and as such has no place on this forum ;P

    BWs metric even confirm that most of the CM revenue is coming from subscribers too.

    But yes, I still play regularly and the post I quoted is certainly true.

    I would encourage anyone to give the game a re-visit and see for yourself instead of taking the word of the same half a dozen posters on these boards who simply push their own agenda.

    Driz

  • Rikus25Rikus25 Aubrey, TXPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    No, not before an EXPANSION of epic proportions.

    Space Sim project.

    And it better be good. By good I mean Star Citizen/Elite/EvE.. or at least JTL good.

    Add ship boarding and guild ships and atmospheric flight

    plus get the day night change on planets going, trash the simplistic mount mechanics, those wheel chairs are outright embarrassing

    And make the Space Casino work, Pazaak, Swoop Raging, Animal mounts, double size of the planets, smarter mobs, mobs on speeders, mobs doing stuff instead of standing around.

    Add vehicle combat.

    Or let SOE do SWG2

    AMEN!!

  • DrelkagDrelkag Somewhere in, KYPosts: 56Member Common
    Originally posted by AwDiddums
    Originally posted by Fruxy

    I guess there is no answer.  Fans want to say a dying game is thriving, and people who want the game to be better will continue being honest.

     

    I was looking for an answer, but alas, servers continue to die and no answers.

     

    Last weekend was an all-time low.  1 fleet during primetime, even with the 150 player cap (instead of 250 player cap).  My server is personal.

     

    I guess character transfers will help to keep 20% of the servers maxed out.  Too bad legacy transfers won't happen?  Or am I wrong about legacy?  I hope I'm wrong.  Then again I also hoped Legacy transfers were free since if was BioWare who told players to start characters on other servers when the population died last year.

     

    /sigh

     

    I believe you where looking for posters to be in agreement with you, you don't like the responses you got so you have labelled them as "Fans" thus justifying your original statement which really is a shame if thats how your trying to get your message across.

    May I suggest in future that you need to backup your posts with actual verified information rather than anecdotal comments to drive home your points, that way perhaps you may be better recieved if things can be checked and found to be true.

    As it stands SWTOR is still an active MMO, no more no less, there are many such MMO's out there that are in a very similar position, both have their pros and cons, yet they still manage to provide some entertainment to those players that have chosen to play them.

    SWTOR and EA/Bioware have obviously let you down in some way, your frustrations would be better aimed at the relevant sources so that you can get the answers you desire, as all you will recieve here are players own answers, none of which can alter the gameplay for you, that is a design decision only the makers of the MMO are able to accomplish.

    This sums the general attitude of SWTOR pretty well in a non-biased way.

    I don't post in this forum often, but it seems this place is overflowing with negative posters that spend just a bit more time repeating there 'opinions' than what would be considered healthy IMO.

    Playing: The Secret World
  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
     I must admit I didn't read through the pages of responses so I'll just address the question. I don't think it will recover personally because the F2P model they chose to use is so full of bottlenecks once you hit elder game that the game is unplayable to me personally. As someone who bought the game when it released, so many things were taken away from me that I feel should not have been imposed on people that have already supported Bioware through the purchase of the game. I decided to drop in and test the new setup of the game and must say I was so turned off that I couldn't even begin to invest time in the game. It's a shame to because I am bored and was hoping I could play the game again with the wife because she seemed to enjoy the story but the fact that she couldn't play any of the races we had when we bought the game turned her off as well. 

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

    It doesn't fail at being what it is. But it fails in general. The people playing are subbers because the F2P model is restrictive. I logged back in recently to see if the game was any different, but it isn't.

    If you are waiting for a new gaming experience from SWTOR you won't get it. They will milk this thing up until and beyond the release of the new movies. I imagine EA will commission another game for the new movies but the higher ups will look at the current paradigm instead: F2P, Minecraft, MOBA, Silly art style.

    Or they might get smart and make something that in 2015 resembles the images you saw in the star wars films.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

    they have the biggest IP

    they spent A LOT of Money to make this game

    this is the expensive Ferrari, that can only go 50 mph, and it doesnt even look good, while doing it

    but its NOT a failure?

    i guess, they designed it as a niche game, then, and the jokes on us

  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

    they have the biggest IP

    they spent A LOT of Money to make this game

    this is the expensive Ferrari, that can only go 50 mph, and it doesnt even look good, while doing it

    but its NOT a failure?

    i guess, they designed it as a niche game, then, and the jokes on us

    I guess you haven't played the game since the graphical update. They have implemented new tech within the engine that doesn't slow the game down. It's similar tech to the ones used in films ( movies ) to add colour to 600 areas of the game and it looks stunning.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    What will be will be.

    Personally I hope it does not.The games decision makers still don't get it.

  • WhitestepWhitestep BudapestPosts: 58Member Uncommon

    Stop complain , it is a good game of course i would be happier if they made a kotor 3 with Revan again and his old crew , but the story , the character story still the best on market of MMO . They just need to make a space combat like in BF2 and add some more epic places(world map).

    So BioWare did a great job plus EA gave them a deadline and that ruined the plans of BW .

    What i see is that the game is slowly growing.

    And i still hope that BW will make another KOTOR game with Revan.

     

     

    Peace

  • bobdole1979bobdole1979 beverly hills, CAPosts: 210Member
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    No, not before an EXPANSION of epic proportions.

    Space Sim project.

    And it better be good. By good I mean Star Citizen/Elite/EvE.. or at least JTL good.

    Add ship boarding and guild ships and atmospheric flight

    plus get the day night change on planets going, trash the simplistic mount mechanics, those wheel chairs are outright embarrassing

    And make the Space Casino work, Pazaak, Swoop Raging, Animal mounts, double size of the planets, smarter mobs, mobs on speeders, mobs doing stuff instead of standing around.

    Add vehicle combat.

    Or let SOE do SWG2

    lol not even SOE want's to do SWG2.  You realize that was a pretty big failure for them right?  The only reason they kept it going was to sell the SOE Station Pass. 

     

     

  • simpliussimplius nakskovPosts: 1,043Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadOrb
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by Tygranir

    Started playing the game again a few days ago after over a year playing other games. I was shocked to see that the game is not only well populated, but the majority appears to be subscribers at that.

    Niche game? Sure

    Failure? Not at all

    they have the biggest IP

    they spent A LOT of Money to make this game

    this is the expensive Ferrari, that can only go 50 mph, and it doesnt even look good, while doing it

    but its NOT a failure?

    i guess, they designed it as a niche game, then, and the jokes on us

    I guess you haven't played the game since the graphical update. They have implemented new tech within the engine that doesn't slow the game down. It's similar tech to the ones used in films ( movies ) to add colour to 600 areas of the game and it looks stunning.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    Graphics isnt swtors biggest biggest problem,,its the design of the core game

    small, linear maps, instead of big open ones

    the heavy emphasis on STORY

    when you make a character in swtor,, you can basically only go one way, and thats  the way of the story

    very few choices,besides those in the convo Wheel

    DCUO is similar in structure,,and guess what..they didnt do too well , either

This discussion has been closed.