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Instances are confirmed in EQnext...

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  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Two things the above post made me think of..

    1) I too am not a fan of having 200 mobs standing around picking their noses on every acre of land..  In my opinion I want to see more random roaming mobs, where tracking might be desired..  I always thought Rift was insane with the mob density.. I would like to see more open spaces, and less mobs..

    2) I'm curious if people think they can just go to Landmark, design whatever they want, and just plop it down in the world.. Cause that won't be the case.. Landmark is a game to toy around with.. With EQN "emergent" AI, it makes no sense to have mobs move to strategic areas on their own, when players are pooping buildings and ruins all over the landside..  I suspect that very very very very FEW things players design in Landmark will actually make it in the game..  And those items that do make it will be placed BY SOE for their intended use.. 

     

    The lead designer has spoken of land grants in next given as some kind of quest reward, I am not of the mindset they will have an open world plop anywhere build anywhere mechanic in Next but they seem to be going for a build out in the open mechanic.

    And we'll see how that pans out..  For a FREE to Play game to allow open world building is opening a Pandora's box.. It could get ugly..  Could you imagine SWG if they allowed F2P accounts and building.. OMG.. The landside would of been peppered with harvesters, factories and homes.. LOL   The mobs would of had to relocate to a new planet.. LOL

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

    need more details

     

    the interview said EQN will be using instances for storytelling

    beyond thatt,   who knows?

    True.. and I hope that is very limited.. I hope it's not like GW2, or SWTOR.. but we'll see

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by joe2721
    instances were mentioned from the get go with the focus on we want to used them as a little as possible

     I hope instances are kept to a mimimum, would prefer the tutoiral the only instance personaly along with possible player housing depending on how they do it.

  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon

    Basically what I'm hearing is this:

     

    This game is not everything I ever wanted in my perfect MMO game (A game that has never and will never exist) therefore it will fail and be the worst game ever and anybody who says different doesn't know MMO's, doesn't play "real" games and has probably started a petition for panda paladins in wow!

     

    Yeah that about sums it up.

     

    In all seriousness so it has instancing...WHO CARES! If instancing is really a deal breaker for you, perhaps MMO's in general aren't for you.

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Posts: 1,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dwarfkinglords

     

    you just can't do that in openword.. you can't have set paths everywhere in the open world.. and whats with this new obsession with immersion, its a game get over it, 

     

     

    Wait....what?  New obsession with immersion?  Have you been hiding under a rock for the past 14 years?  People have been talking about immersion since I first started reading posts about MMORPGs.

    And what's this about "set paths"?  Do we want set paths?  Ok...um, so now we're supposed to want games to funnel us down narrow corridors and not allow us to stray off the set path? 

    All hail the invisible walls!  Glory and praise to connect the dots gameplay!

     

    Geez, if that's how you defend the game I'd hate to see you bashing it. 

     

    To address the use of instances in general; I can't say that they should never be used.  They have their place but should be used as little as possible.  It should be possible in a persistent world to be going through a dungeon and just happen to bump into some other player who is trying to go through the same dungeon.   He's having trouble with a rough fight so you jump in to help.  Then the two of you decide to group up.  After that maybe you become great friends.  Or maybe he acts like an ass and does something incredibly stupid which gets you both killed and you end up never wanting to be around him again.

    But either way at least you interacted with another human being.  The more instances are used the less interaction you have with other people.  And yeah, there could be a dungeon finder function in the game but if that's what it comes down to they really might as well just make a lobby game and be done with it.

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    Its just another thread from someone trying to crap on a game...  There is this premise that there is a "reason" for it... yet its not really a reason just an excuse.

     

    Instances obviously have no effect on whether a game was a "sand box" or not.   As the only definition of sand box is creating things with your imagination (not zoneless/instanceless worlds...) oddly enough.   Oh and that of course means no PvP required another one of those "excuses" often used.

     

    Plus there is this logical thing... 

     

    1) If you have any kind of event where a party is supposed to go somewhere "dangerous" ... going there and finding 1000 other players and "no danger" breaks the immersion (which is why instances should be used for some things...)

     

    2) If you really want to support player and/or guild housing then you are likely going to have to instance it... because unlike the days of UO... most people don't really enjoy having no place for their home.   Plus it negates that issue of having huge areas of the countryside filled with houses or housing zones like DAoC had.. what a pita those were to find the thing you were trying to buy to avoid broker fees.

     

    *edit*

     

    I just want to make clear that I am not saying EQN won't um I guess the word is suck...  However, I grow tired of the amount of threads with no real logical point or even thought behind them.   Now if you wanted to make a thread about the importance of the AI SOE keeps talking about.. and how if they fail with it.. then the games core design will be flawed... I'd be right with you on that thought process.

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • KarbleKarble San Diego, CAPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by Vutar

    Pixel Planet interview at about the 3:42ish mark.

    http://www.guildm8s.com/

     

    So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

    I would like to see them use instancing in EQ Next.

    There are a few things a game benefits from with Instancing.

    #1---Newb areas are a place where people first pop in and many will have no clue how do do much. If you instance a newb area, it can be tailored specifically to give totally new people a really nice,full tutorial on many of the systems and how they work without the fear of getting slaughtered by a huge invasion or lava or some other thing as they might in a non-tutorial sandbox.

    #2---People's pc's can only handle a certain amount of action on screen at any given time. The more players you have in one spot, the more an older pc will start showing low frames. Once the game gets to a certain number, about half or more players will have such slow frames per second that they will not be able to move correctly or see 80% of the greatness that the game has and then they will want to quit since they would have to go buy a new rig to get faster performance just to see over 250+ people onscreen or whatever the amount is that starts making their current rig choke. Who knows...maybe with Voxels this will be far less an issue. Never played a voxel game before.

     

    #3---If there is some form of mass transit in the game, it makes sense to have some of it instanced since you can pull off some crafty things that would change mass transit quite a bit. Things like a sky jacking with sky pirates, or perhaps an earth elemental stopping your underground train that must be killed before it smashes the train. Basically they can make new encounters all the time with this and make them deep enough to still be interesting and engaging.

    #4---possibly upon collecting a class you are knocked into a dream arena where you must prove yourself against a shadow version of yourself in that class style. This would basically show that you have an understanding of the powers and limitations of that class by having to overcome it in combat. Once you have defeated your shadow self you are popped back to the regular world right where you were.

    All these things are helpful to the player or small group of players without disrupting the overall game structure in general.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by joe2721
    instances were mentioned from the get go with the focus on we want to used them as a little as possible

     I hope instances are kept to a mimimum, would prefer the tutoiral the only instance personaly along with possible player housing depending on how they do it.

    I guess it depends on how you define instances but when you think about dynamic content it's easy to imagine where they will need to find ways to divide players in the world.  At least dynamic content that makes a difference in how the world looks.  Dynamic content like how Rift and GW2 does it really has no meaning as everything resets once it's complete.

    If your questing away and come across that farmer for instance where you either help the farmer or help the orcs destroy the farm what happens when there are dozens of players each trying for a different outcome?  It might work out on a PVP server but people would just get in each others way on the PVE server and it would be impossible to completely save or destroy the farm because others would always be working to push the outcome the other way.

    What I expect will happen is a next generation version of what EQ2 last couple expansions have done.  They have NPC's and set pieces that can move around on a per person basis depending on where you are personally in the quest.  Each person sees the world from a slightly different perspective so it's possible for one person to save the farm and another to destroy it at the same time and each see the world from the perspective of their toon.

    What I see happening is that unique player view will be for small content meant to be soloed.  I expect there will also be larger community events that will not be personally instanced in the above manner and will require many people working together for either the positive or negative result.  

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,431Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jagsman32
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    From the clip it sounds like instances will be used for story (first person questline) that all mmo's now follow which I can't stand.  It doesn't make me feel heroic it is just a single player game mode.

     

    Agreed. First person questlines make absolutely zero sense in an MMO, specifically if they involve instances. Are you supposed to pretend that you are the only one doing said quest? You are the only individual in the game that is the hero of the world? You are the only one who fought that dragon with an army of NPCs?

    I am looking at you, GW2 and SWTOR. Unless the game is designed as a lobby based instance simulator, an MMO should be about continuity, community, socialization, and adventure. Dailies, instances, 100% soloability provides none of that (and also occupy 95% of MMOs to date).

    I strongly agree.

    Once upon a time....

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar

    Pixel Planet interview at about the 3:42ish mark.

    http://www.guildm8s.com/

     

    So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

    You do realize that sandbox has nothing to do w/ being instanced.

    Instancing is server tech. Sandbox is a type of gameplay mechanic.

    While one can influence the other, they aren't attached at the hip.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    I could care less if instancing qualifies it or not as a "sandbox" - that whole term is so amorphous and everyone has a different idea of what it is.  What I do know is that I hate instancing and am very disappointed this game will have it.
  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    It's really funny how before the reveal pretty much everyone posted about how they don't want instancing of any kind, but now that they have announced there will be instancing countless people on this thread are talking about how it doesn't matter and how it's dumb if you don't like instancing yadda yadda yadda.  Sure changed tune a lot.  Smells like fanboyism to me.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Vutar

    So at what point can we go ahead and give up this notion of sandbox?

    About two minutes after that first announcement?

    Just had to translate MarketingSpeak into "what really always happens in the months following new game announcements".

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • FratmanFratman Bumpkinville, WYPosts: 344Member
    Someone needs to ask if Rallying Calls will be instanced.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Victor_Kruger
    Originally posted by Gwendal Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
    Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
    the mission gates are instances.

    Originally posted by Drakephire
    Originally posted by Gwendal Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
    Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
    Each space station is an instance. Wormholes are instances.

    Also, SWG had instances.


    Um...no there not?

    Mission gates to my knowledge can be probe and scanned down.
    Wormholes and stations create a static environments which everyone is sharing.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Victor_Kruger

    Originally posted by Gwendal

    Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
    Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
    the mission gates are instances.

    Originally posted by Drakephire

    Originally posted by Gwendal

    Originally posted by krage Eve is commonly touted as one of the better sandbox games Eve has instancing Is Eve no longer qualified as a sandbox?  IMO its how much and how instancing is implemented that affects a games "sandboxiness" From the video the instances will be used to tell part of the story or for certain events, I don't think thats too bad, but we have to see the actual implementation and frequency.  
    Umm eve online has no instances... every system is its own unique entity, there is never 2 of jita lol.
    Each space station is an instance. Wormholes are instances.

     

    Also, SWG had instances.


     

    Um...no there not?

    Mission gates to my knowledge can be probe and scanned down.
    Wormholes and stations create a static environments which everyone is sharing.

    If your know nothing bout EVE then you just need to stfu.  Wormhole space has specific ID that anyone can enter as long as the mass limit is not exceeded at it specific entry points along with people live in Wormhole space.

  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member

    Hmm Themepark?  Get a quest that you need to find something or kill something or what ever.  Instanced it get it done and get out.

    Or Sandbox?  Get the same quest, go to the quest area.  But dear god there are 100,000 people in here, how they hell am I supposed to get done what I need to get done?

    Also some of you are not thinking right?  An Instance can be just as fleeting as the Orcs that are leaving the highway to go find a better place to steal gold from people.  Take the first part of my statement.  You have just completed the quest.  Now no one else can do the quest and guess what, you can't go back in either.  Sounds mostly sandbox to me. 

    Edit: There is such a thing as too much immersion.  I don't want to be competing for resources, quests, drops etc with 1,000,000 people at the same time.  This is why they will have multiple servers.  It is also why some content will be instanced. 

  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Fratman
    Someone needs to ask if Rallying Calls will be instanced.

    Rallying Calls will be World Wide events that all players participate in (or chose not to).  New player characters will be starting in whatever Rallying Call is going on.  So all bets are that Rallying Calls will not be instanced.  Also Dave says that Rallying Calls are like the public quests so again not instanced.

  • solarbear88solarbear88 BathurstPosts: 73Member

    I see instances as providing a positive experience for people.  

    ie you adventure down into a dungeon to defeat some boss that is plaguing a local town - when you get to the bottom there is an instance to fight the boss

    this sure beats the situation in Aion - have a quest to kill a boss mob -arrive to find a 100 person queue and it respawns every 10 minutes... so 20x10 min wait... :/

  • joe2721joe2721 las vegas, NVPosts: 161Member
    But they said quests are not static and will appear throughout the world so that alone should help with the mass camping of a single quest mob.  But instance at the same time because everyone that did find the quest may choose to do something different i can see instancing helping. if  for example want to be a necro or other darker class i might have to help the monster instead of killing it which would be very hard to do if do gooders keep killing him.

    image
  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by joe2721
    But they said quests are not static and will appear throughout the world so that alone should help with the mass camping of a single quest mob.  But instance at the same time because everyone that did find the quest may choose to do something different i can see instancing helping. if  for example want to be a necro or other darker class i might have to help the monster instead of killing it which would be very hard to do if do gooders keep killing him.

    This is the exact reason to have instances.  What better way to ensure that if you need to go into a dojo to learn the martial arts of a monk then through an instance?  Then the instance gets deleted and the quest giver goes about their merry way.

    The alternative?  Get in a queue and patiently wait your turn to execute the training.  Or worse some griefer comes through and kills the trainer.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar
    Originally posted by MrSalty
    its going to be such a disappointment

     

    Ya I am starting to understand now why they don't want to show much of the game. The more that comes out about it, the less "original" the ideas are.

     Thats just it...its all hype and smoke and mirrors right now....They are buying time...They have little or nothing at this point.

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by Jagsman32
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

     

     

    Agreed. First person questlines make absolutely zero sense in an MMO, specifically if they involve instances. Are you supposed to pretend that you are the only one doing said quest? You are the only individual in the game that is the hero of the world? You are the only one who fought that dragon with an army of NPCs?

    I am looking at you, GW2 and SWTOR. Unless the game is designed as a lobby based instance simulator, an MMO should be about continuity, community, socialization, and adventure. Dailies, instances, 100% soloability provides none of that (and also occupy 95% of MMOs to date).

    I strongly agree.

    MMO's just aren't what they started out as anymore. Concepts from single player rpg, fps, and other game types have made their way into MMOs now, and probably aren't going to revert back to the pure mmo concepts since they've mainstreamed so much. I do think some changes are for good, but many take away from what drew many of us to the genre.

  • Victor_KrugerVictor_Kruger La Mesa, CAPosts: 268Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Vutar
    Originally posted by MrSalty
    its going to be such a disappointment

     

    Ya I am starting to understand now why they don't want to show much of the game. The more that comes out about it, the less "original" the ideas are.

     Thats just it...its all hype and smoke and mirrors right now....They are buying time...They have little or nothing at this point.

    Yet they are able to launch a full featured minecraft game in the winter complete with mounts, guilds, character creation. They are are not going to come out publicly with a big game like this if it still going to take years to make and let their competitors take their ideas and release games with them before they do.  Its original in that all those features haven't been in one game before which makes it new.

  • Jagsman32Jagsman32 Atlanta, GAPosts: 109Member

    Do all the people asking for instances not realize that the game is going to feature procedurally generated content? What purpose is there of having an instance when whatever is created one day wont be there the next?

    You won't have 100 people sitting in the same spot waiting for the same mob because that same mob, dungeon, area, or item will not be there the next day, or the next, or the next, but maybe the day after that depending on the RNG. The whole purpose of this is so that you explore and discover your items instead of going through the same dungeons and landscapes the same time. You don't need instances when everything is generated like this. There wont occur a situation when you have 100 random people sitting in a location (unless it is an above world Rally or city) because everyone will need to discover and explore the content themselves. It completely defeats the purpose of the game to instance this. If someone follows you into a dungeon that you discovered on your own, thats great. That dungeon wont be there the next day, and you will have to discover a new one.

    Instances are completely detrimental to the development of this game, and advocating for them is advocating for WoW with a new skin, which the devs are trying to get away from.

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