Because Vanguard launched with only $3,000 computers being able to play it and even then it was a buggy mess. But instead of doing what SE did and shutting it down and fixing it they sold it to SoE who tried to fix it a bit.
Not every company has the balls or money to do what Square Enix did but it was a smart move.
Vanguard - buggy, incomplete, one of the worst launches ever, 2003 graphics, uninspired and uninteresting gameplay, game world, lore...
If you were comparing FFXIV 1.0 to Vanguard I'd say they were much, much closer in comparison, but comparing FFXIV:ARR to Vanguard is just... asinine.
Apples to oranges.
Yeah - seriously OP, did you even think this through before you posted? Vanguard had a shitty launch. Vanguard barely made a splash in the MMORPG community, let alone the gaming community. Vanguard is old as balls now. And finally, Vanguard was not a prequel or a sequel of any kind. Players new to Vanguard would have no idea whats it about.
Now lets take FF14. Its new. Its made by square enix who, to some people, are the gods of game development. It has a slew of lore and backstory already established. It has a very successful MMO prequel. On top of that: players know that a ton of money was dumped into it to make it better. Why wouldn't people be excited.
Vanguard - buggy, incomplete, one of the worst launches ever, 2003 graphics, uninspired and uninteresting gameplay, game world, lore...
If you were comparing FFXIV 1.0 to Vanguard I'd say they were much, much closer in comparison, but comparing FFXIV:ARR to Vanguard is just... asinine.
Apples to oranges.
What planet did you live on? The only thing on your list that was accurate was that it was an awful launch and that Vanguard was buggy. Vanguards gameplay is still worlds ahead of most MMOs out today, and at the time its graphics were the best in the industry, so much so that people couldn't run the game maxed out. It sounds like you never even played the game and fired out a bunch of words you thought might be accurate.
FF14 was closer to launch Vanguard in that it had a lot of good ideas. The difference is, Vanguard executed its good ideas but was forced out early with a ton of bugs. FF14 had a lot of good ideas but didn't execute them well.
The new FF basically spent a couple years making itself more like WoW.
1. Close your eyes and image what you look like in a fantasy world. Think also about what you want other people to look like - especially women. Now look through the vanguard screenshots and FFXIV screenshot. In Vanguard, the guys look uninspiring and the women look homely. In FFXIV i want to be that guy, and be with that girl.
It may be petty, but it is actually important for immersion
As for Vanguard in general:
2. I tried Vanguard online 2 weeks ago (after SOE Live). Quests weren't interesting. After having played wow until I couldn't stand it any longer, Vanguard was just more of the same "Here's an excuse to kill n of creature xyz. Come back and get loot y". I can't do that any more. I don't know if I'll ever be able to again.
3. Tradeskilling was better than most in Vanguard, but it was still all about running out to harvest a pile of resources to make a bunch of items that nobody ever wanted.
In review, Vanguard is everything that an MMO should have been 8 years ago, but the world has moved on.
Thanks...the title of this thread made me laugh. Fine stuff. Now, I thought VSOH had some good elements but overall it was never in the same class as a heavy hitting MMORPG. Poor launch, unfinished game, rough in too many ways. It had potential but never really fulfilled.
"More popular" is a weird way to put it. This game is hyped. Popular is what game *might* be after it's out. In the case of MMORPGs, popular is more suitable for describing games that have a lot of subscribers over time.
This is factual.
I predict this game ends up more like SWTOR. Hyped. Nice release numbers. Huge drops in pop in 3-6 months (how long it'll take the slower players to exhaust solo ez-mode, the single player content). Empty servers and/or moving towards being more F2P trash in a year or so.
This is an assumption and a very poor one considering SE's track record. Final Fantasy XI is still a sub based game and still is updated quite often. They released an expansion earlier this year and they just had a content update last week. Let me say this ....... Final Fantasy XI is still sub based after being out for 11 years ........ If you think this will ever go the F2P route I don't know what to tell you. They only want a modest 400k players they will exceed that number for at least the first 2-3 years. As a fact That number can pretty much be sustained with just the Asian fan base.
Which is just like all the other post WoW clones that emphasisze solo ez-mode, release with little to no endgame and/or incomplete small amounts of endgame, and that lack enough challenge to even satisfy the least able of gamers. Single player games aren't worth a sub. Games that lack challenge are boring and not worth a sub. All signs point to FFXIV being an easier than usual clone.
What exactly makes you think this game is "solo ez-mode"? Have you even played past level 20 yet? Do you have all classes and jobs unlocked and all at max level? Did you Fate, Leve or Party grind for you other classes/jobs because after taking 3 or 4 to 30+ that's what you are going to have to do. Leveling slows down quite a bit after you burn out all the city quests, but of course you already knew that...... right? You keep saying the word easy when their track record suggests otherwise....... were you in the LS that spent hours upon hours trying to kill AV or PW in FFXI? I mean they were so easy right? Then when we finally found out how to Drk zerg it down what did SE do? They made it even easier by making him build resistance to Souleater..... I mean then he really got easy right? There are multiple versions of every HNM with varying rewards for different difficulties and as has been stated even the DEV team is having a rough ass time dealing with Titan Extreme. So I am sure it will be easy to Solo him.
As far as endgame they have new raids and dungeons that were not in V.1 that are due to drop on release and be updated soon after. The new dungeon crawl vid shows a bunch of new obviously end game stuff..... also shows that Shiva (Another Primal) is ready to go...... There is some more endgame for your endgame to put or add to your endgame.
Shiny. New. Fun for a couple months. Same old same old. Sigh.
/wrist
The fanboys saying this game is the greatest thing ever or that this is the kind of game they want will be the first people to bail. Designing MMORPGs for this type of player is what is causing all of the clones to fail and is driving the genre into the F2P toilet. Why would you ever design a multiplayer cooperative style of game that you want people to play for years by going heavy solo and catering to single player gamers? It continues to boggle the mind.
No one has said this is the greatest thing ever but it is definitely the best thing to come out in a very very long while. I say this as an MMO fan that has played just about everything that has come out in the last 10 years. I still have a sub to FFXI and I enjoyed this in beta much more than I currently enjoy XI...... When the game comes out grab a copy .... its only 30 bucks and your first month is free. See if you can solo all the way to 50 then get back to me about the whole "Heavy Solo" thing.
The negativity some people bring to this forum about this game is asinine, Name me another game that is this in depth this fun and has had this amount of care put into it that has come out in the last 6 years.(I'll wait) Name me another company that released a failed product and instead of crapping on their fans and saying "Sorry you bought our shit too bad." they scrapped it completely revamped and re -eleased a much better product.
To all of you entitled new age ,F2P, Cash shop Loving , I want my action and fps to invade your genre players this game is not for you. If you want to bash it bash it for what it's not and not for what it is ........ It is NOT what you want it to be..... what it is, well that remains to be seen.
or Tera or even Tor. I can only think it is because people are graphic worshipers or have some type of idealized thought about FF. Of course when we play these games it is only natural to compare them to others we have played.
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre. Yes the graphics are much better than the years old Vanguard but the crafting, combat, freedom (zones) diplomacy (one of a kind) exploration value, do not come close to Vanguard. Even Tera-both games have generic quests and both have great graphics but the combat is light years ahead in Tera. Even Tor with its average mmo mechanics has a much better quest system and cut scenes.
I guess what I am asking is How could this game be more popular than Vanguard-beats me? I am guessing it is because we are living in the "Latest and Greatest" generation I do understand the latest, but where is the Greatest?
Why is a Ferrari better then a Kia or Hyundai or even Daewoo.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life" My opinion
Originally posted by Scalpless Quality wise, FFXIV is clearly above TERA, Vanguard and TOR. That's what people like about it.
No. It's not.
Yes, it is.
What a strong argument you both have :P. But, I do agree it's above them because the only one of those that I played for more than a day was TERA and that didn't last a month.
Originally posted by Scalpless Quality wise, FFXIV is clearly above TERA, Vanguard and TOR. That's what people like about it.
No. It's not.
Its because vanguard has that /rope thing isn't it? god damn thats one of the best features of any mmo I've come across where you can fall into ditch (not lying here lol it was the bee's knees)
GIve it a rest man, I played FFXIV open beta all weekend and it only crashed twice on me, vanguard crashed every few minutes after realease, and I had a kick ass rig I built at the time for it.
Originally posted by Scalpless Quality wise, FFXIV is clearly above TERA, Vanguard and TOR. That's what people like about it.
No. It's not.
I believe he was talking polish and presentation, and he is absolutely correct. VG is obviously lacking polish, even in its fixed up state. SWTOR is pretty good now, but it needed a LOT of polish at launch. Good presentation though. TERA wasnt bad in the polish department, but its presentation is lacking.
FF14 succeeds where vanguard failed because they keep trying. They failed miserably, but they did not give up. They were covered in the smelliest crap but they washed themselves off and recoded AND redesigned the whole thing.
Originally posted by elocke Vanguard should what FFXIV did. ... In other words the game has potential that won't come about until some major overhauls are done. Can SOE do it? Do they have the cajones that Square has?
No. Not because S/E has cajones or that SoE couldn't do it. But the only reason ARR came about was to protect the Final Fantasy IP. If it had not had the FF name 1.0 would have just quietly drifted into the nether.
Vanguard is an original IP, so there is no cash cow IP to protect by letting it sit in a dusty corner on ancient servers letting the existing players tool around on it as long as it remains at least cash neutral to do so.
I guess what I am asking is How could this game be more popular than Vanguard-beats me? I am guessing it is because we are living in the "Latest and Greatest" generation I do understand the latest, but where is the Greatest?
Not SOE.
Not a cash shop money game.
Players are willing to give it a chance because it doesn't have a nefarious background.
or Tera or even Tor. I can only think it is because people are graphic worshipers or have some type of idealized thought about FF. Of course when we play these games it is only natural to compare them to others we have played.
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre. Yes the graphics are much better than the years old Vanguard but the crafting, combat, freedom (zones) diplomacy (one of a kind) exploration value, do not come close to Vanguard. Even Tera-both games have generic quests and both have great graphics but the combat is light years ahead in Tera. Even Tor with its average mmo mechanics has a much better quest system and cut scenes.
I guess what I am asking is How could this game be more popular than Vanguard-beats me? I am guessing it is because we are living in the "Latest and Greatest" generation I do understand the latest, but where is the Greatest?
As one of the people that preordered the specia ledition of vanguard (with map and lal kinds of crap i never needed).. It is still one of the most broken games i ever played.
Vanguard was amazing in many, many ways.. but it was broken as shit.
FF is bland, generic and boring. But atleast it is not broken.
Originally posted by svann FF14 succeeds where vanguard failed because they keep trying. They failed miserably, but they did not give up. They were covered in the smelliest crap but they washed themselves off and recoded AND redesigned the whole thing.
This isnt fair to say at all. FFXIV would have to fail a second time to compare to VG, because SoE spent millions and almost 2 years fixing it. People need to quit being so ignorant.
Did SoE spend as much as S/E? Probably not, but then they dont have the resources S/E has. Did they do a whole game redo? No, because people didn't want that. Did they make a serious and significant attempt? Absolutely, and anyone who thinks otherwise is 100% wrong. Did they give up eventually? Yes, but thats because they held up their end of the bargain and the players didn't.
In retrospect maybe a shut down/relaunch would have been a better idea, but i doubt it would have made a huge difference.
Originally posted by teakbois2112 Did SoE spend as much as S/E? Probably not, but then they dont have the resources S/E has.
Wait - SoE is owned by Sony, which is a ~huge~ company. As a total company, they have a revenue in excess of $72 Billion (US). They make everything from Playstations to John Mayer records to Walkmans to Matt Daemon movies to Everquest to OLED screens - and a lot of stuff inbetween.
Square/Enix isn't small by any stretch of the imagination. They have a revnue of around Y128,000 Million (JP) - which is roughly equivalent to around 1.3 Billion US (depending on exchange rates and etc). They are pretty much just a gaming company, with a bit of dabbling in video production.
S/E is less than 1/5 the size of Sony, if your looking at revenue. Sure, we are talking about SoE here, and not Sony as a whole, but you can't just isolate them either, since we are looking at S/E as a whole. SoE, if needed, could and would certainly pull resources and assets from the parent company if it required them and it was warranted.
Originally posted by elocke Vanguard should what FFXIV did. ... In other words the game has potential that won't come about until some major overhauls are done. Can SOE do it? Do they have the cajones that Square has?
No. Not because S/E has cajones or that SoE couldn't do it. But the only reason ARR came about was to protect the Final Fantasy IP. If it had not had the FF name 1.0 would have just quietly drifted into the nether.
Why they did it doesn't matter, and at any rate, what you put forth is just pure conjecture. You don't know what they would have done were it not a FF game.
What matters is that they did it and that, yes, it took balls to do. Do you really think it was an "easy" thing for SE to decide to scrap several years and untold millions of dollars on a game, to completely rebuild it, completely restructuring the team around it, bringing on many more people, spending several years and untold millions more on the effort... with no guarantee that it would pay off, or that it wouldn't turn out even worse?
You seriously think a decision like that doesn't take some serious cajones?
I suppose it's easy to dismiss what they're doing as "merely being to protect the IP" when you're not the one making all those decisions, with the health of an entire company on the line.
It's funny. How many times have people said "If only "developer here" would rebuild their buggy game from the ground up, it could be so much better"? Quite a lot in my experience. Yet, as soon as a developer actually does just that... people start looking for ways to dismiss it... especially when it isn't "their game", or otherwise a game they don't like.
Of course, knowing the attitudes and "logic" (cough) people use on gaming forums in general, that shouldn't surprise me.
or Tera or even Tor. I can only think it is because people are graphic worshipers or have some type of idealized thought about FF. Of course when we play these games it is only natural to compare them to others we have played.
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre. Yes the graphics are much better than the years old Vanguard but the crafting, combat, freedom (zones) diplomacy (one of a kind) exploration value, do not come close to Vanguard. Even Tera-both games have generic quests and both have great graphics but the combat is light years ahead in Tera. Even Tor with its average mmo mechanics has a much better quest system and cut scenes.
I guess what I am asking is How could this game be more popular than Vanguard-beats me? I am guessing it is because we are living in the "Latest and Greatest" generation I do understand the latest, but where is the Greatest?
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre.
So you are not saying the game is terrible but you are saying it's mediocre.... makes sense.
or Tera or even Tor. I can only think it is because people are graphic worshipers or have some type of idealized thought about FF. Of course when we play these games it is only natural to compare them to others we have played.
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre. Yes the graphics are much better than the years old Vanguard but the crafting, combat, freedom (zones) diplomacy (one of a kind) exploration value, do not come close to Vanguard. Even Tera-both games have generic quests and both have great graphics but the combat is light years ahead in Tera. Even Tor with its average mmo mechanics has a much better quest system and cut scenes.
I guess what I am asking is How could this game be more popular than Vanguard-beats me? I am guessing it is because we are living in the "Latest and Greatest" generation I do understand the latest, but where is the Greatest?
Come on dude, it's because it's Final Fantasy, one of the best selling series of all time. Being surpassed by only Call of Duty.
Comments
Not every company has the balls or money to do what Square Enix did but it was a smart move.
Yeah - seriously OP, did you even think this through before you posted? Vanguard had a shitty launch. Vanguard barely made a splash in the MMORPG community, let alone the gaming community. Vanguard is old as balls now. And finally, Vanguard was not a prequel or a sequel of any kind. Players new to Vanguard would have no idea whats it about.
Now lets take FF14. Its new. Its made by square enix who, to some people, are the gods of game development. It has a slew of lore and backstory already established. It has a very successful MMO prequel. On top of that: players know that a ton of money was dumped into it to make it better. Why wouldn't people be excited.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
No. It's not.
What planet did you live on? The only thing on your list that was accurate was that it was an awful launch and that Vanguard was buggy. Vanguards gameplay is still worlds ahead of most MMOs out today, and at the time its graphics were the best in the industry, so much so that people couldn't run the game maxed out. It sounds like you never even played the game and fired out a bunch of words you thought might be accurate.
FF14 was closer to launch Vanguard in that it had a lot of good ideas. The difference is, Vanguard executed its good ideas but was forced out early with a ton of bugs. FF14 had a lot of good ideas but didn't execute them well.
The new FF basically spent a couple years making itself more like WoW.
1. Close your eyes and image what you look like in a fantasy world. Think also about what you want other people to look like - especially women. Now look through the vanguard screenshots and FFXIV screenshot. In Vanguard, the guys look uninspiring and the women look homely. In FFXIV i want to be that guy, and be with that girl.
It may be petty, but it is actually important for immersion
As for Vanguard in general:
2. I tried Vanguard online 2 weeks ago (after SOE Live). Quests weren't interesting. After having played wow until I couldn't stand it any longer, Vanguard was just more of the same "Here's an excuse to kill n of creature xyz. Come back and get loot y". I can't do that any more. I don't know if I'll ever be able to again.
3. Tradeskilling was better than most in Vanguard, but it was still all about running out to harvest a pile of resources to make a bunch of items that nobody ever wanted.
In review, Vanguard is everything that an MMO should have been 8 years ago, but the world has moved on.
The negativity some people bring to this forum about this game is asinine, Name me another game that is this in depth this fun and has had this amount of care put into it that has come out in the last 6 years.(I'll wait) Name me another company that released a failed product and instead of crapping on their fans and saying "Sorry you bought our shit too bad." they scrapped it completely revamped and re -eleased a much better product.
To all of you entitled new age ,F2P, Cash shop Loving , I want my action and fps to invade your genre players this game is not for you. If you want to bash it bash it for what it's not and not for what it is ........ It is NOT what you want it to be..... what it is, well that remains to be seen.
Why is a Ferrari better then a Kia or Hyundai or even Daewoo.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
Yes, it is.
"mmorpg.com forum admins are all TROLLS and losers in real life"
My opinion
What a strong argument you both have :P. But, I do agree it's above them because the only one of those that I played for more than a day was TERA and that didn't last a month.
Its because vanguard has that /rope thing isn't it? god damn thats one of the best features of any mmo I've come across where you can fall into ditch (not lying here lol it was the bee's knees)
GIve it a rest man, I played FFXIV open beta all weekend and it only crashed twice on me, vanguard crashed every few minutes after realease, and I had a kick ass rig I built at the time for it.
I believe he was talking polish and presentation, and he is absolutely correct. VG is obviously lacking polish, even in its fixed up state. SWTOR is pretty good now, but it needed a LOT of polish at launch. Good presentation though. TERA wasnt bad in the polish department, but its presentation is lacking.
No. Not because S/E has cajones or that SoE couldn't do it. But the only reason ARR came about was to protect the Final Fantasy IP. If it had not had the FF name 1.0 would have just quietly drifted into the nether.
Vanguard is an original IP, so there is no cash cow IP to protect by letting it sit in a dusty corner on ancient servers letting the existing players tool around on it as long as it remains at least cash neutral to do so.
You should really really re-think that one.
As one of the people that preordered the specia ledition of vanguard (with map and lal kinds of crap i never needed).. It is still one of the most broken games i ever played.
Vanguard was amazing in many, many ways.. but it was broken as shit.
FF is bland, generic and boring. But atleast it is not broken.
- Nothing lasts.. but nothing is lost. -
This isnt fair to say at all. FFXIV would have to fail a second time to compare to VG, because SoE spent millions and almost 2 years fixing it. People need to quit being so ignorant.
Did SoE spend as much as S/E? Probably not, but then they dont have the resources S/E has. Did they do a whole game redo? No, because people didn't want that. Did they make a serious and significant attempt? Absolutely, and anyone who thinks otherwise is 100% wrong. Did they give up eventually? Yes, but thats because they held up their end of the bargain and the players didn't.
In retrospect maybe a shut down/relaunch would have been a better idea, but i doubt it would have made a huge difference.
Vanguard? Where did that comparison come from? Seriously? Vangaurd of all games?
http://www.youtube.com/ffxivartist
Best post on this thread so far...
Wait - SoE is owned by Sony, which is a ~huge~ company. As a total company, they have a revenue in excess of $72 Billion (US). They make everything from Playstations to John Mayer records to Walkmans to Matt Daemon movies to Everquest to OLED screens - and a lot of stuff inbetween.
Square/Enix isn't small by any stretch of the imagination. They have a revnue of around Y128,000 Million (JP) - which is roughly equivalent to around 1.3 Billion US (depending on exchange rates and etc). They are pretty much just a gaming company, with a bit of dabbling in video production.
S/E is less than 1/5 the size of Sony, if your looking at revenue. Sure, we are talking about SoE here, and not Sony as a whole, but you can't just isolate them either, since we are looking at S/E as a whole. SoE, if needed, could and would certainly pull resources and assets from the parent company if it required them and it was warranted.
Why they did it doesn't matter, and at any rate, what you put forth is just pure conjecture. You don't know what they would have done were it not a FF game.
What matters is that they did it and that, yes, it took balls to do. Do you really think it was an "easy" thing for SE to decide to scrap several years and untold millions of dollars on a game, to completely rebuild it, completely restructuring the team around it, bringing on many more people, spending several years and untold millions more on the effort... with no guarantee that it would pay off, or that it wouldn't turn out even worse?
You seriously think a decision like that doesn't take some serious cajones?
I suppose it's easy to dismiss what they're doing as "merely being to protect the IP" when you're not the one making all those decisions, with the health of an entire company on the line.
It's funny. How many times have people said "If only "developer here" would rebuild their buggy game from the ground up, it could be so much better"? Quite a lot in my experience. Yet, as soon as a developer actually does just that... people start looking for ways to dismiss it... especially when it isn't "their game", or otherwise a game they don't like.
Of course, knowing the attitudes and "logic" (cough) people use on gaming forums in general, that shouldn't surprise me.
I am not saying that ff is a terrible game just bland, ie mediocre.
So you are not saying the game is terrible but you are saying it's mediocre.... makes sense.
Come on dude, it's because it's Final Fantasy, one of the best selling series of all time. Being surpassed by only Call of Duty.