Because its p2p is the only reason that I will be playing it. I won't touch F2P games... I don't mind the $0.30 a day it takes to sub... For most people, that is covered within the first few minutes at work.
So, 180 dollar per year is alot to some people? Really? You should go and get a job then and stop playing FTP games.
Seriously, get a job, i mean it.
That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
Ill take that 15 dollar a month. Cheaper. No roadblocks. No frustration with silly chests dropping that have BIS gear,... if opened with a cashshop key.
And again. Get a job, then you will not even notice that 15 dollar a month. Hell, show me a cheaper hobby that gives that many hours of fun.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Now since they decided to go P2P isntead, they essentially need a player to spend money on an extra 4 months for every player they lose due to this decision.
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You pro p2p guys are funny. When the game goes b2p within a year I will come back and laugh just like all the other p2p games that crumbled. I have played beta and while it's a good game, it's not worth the p2p model. Same with Wildstar which I beta in as well.
While I applaud companies shifting away from F2P suck, I'm not seeing how this game will be worth a sub.
TESO is following the GW2 template of being a single player game that's online. No structured grouping and a definite planned lack of MMORPG features. What is going to make it worth a sub? I'm not seeing it.
Skyrim is an awesome game. Skyrim where you host a persistent world yourself ala minecraft or cubeworld servers, where you could have a few friends play with you in a persistent world. That would rock. Paying some kind of fee for a steady stream of content for something like that would be worth it.
Single player gameplay on a server filled with pinheads? What's the point? Some of the best elements of ES series are the immersion and quality of PvE content. You're not going to get immersed with xXDrizzt732Xx running naked across your screen shouting doodspeak and the quality of PvE will be diminished by the fact that there are 50 other people running all over the place when you want to do or view something. And where exactly does PvP fit in for a series of games that has had absolutely zero PvP in it for over 10 years?
F2P is trash. All players should have the same opportunities where how much and how well you play determine your success, not how much you're willing to pay.
F2P has lower quality players overall. People who think they deserve free games. People who act like tools because they're not paying and don't care about the game or other people playing. People who are flitting around between lots of games and as such are useless to guilds or community. You can have this in sub-based but it's amplified considerably in F2P.
Pay 2 win and facilitated cheating (currency exchange systems where players ultimately pay cash for in-game currency) are both lame. Losers who can't be bothered to play games and would rather buy their way thru them should just not play games.
Cash shops with fluff items that destroy immersion are lame (bikinis, cowboy hats, similar nonsens in fantasy themed worlds for ex).
Microtransactions or cash barriers are lame.
Limited features and paying to get reasonable service or to get a experience in the game (say with number of character slots, bag capacity, bank capacity) are lame. The prices they charge for this are ridiculous? Why, because they know some scrubs won't pay at all but some will so the people that will pay get to pay more to subsidize losers.
The only real positive to F2P is that it lets you dink with sub par games that aren't worth a sub or to revisit games you used to play when you thought they were a sub but stopped playing once you figured out they're not worth a sub. For games that are worth a sub, the sub is trivial, or should be, and if it's not, you should probably have other priorities in life besides gaming or maybe MMORPGs aren't for you and you should stick to playing $70 console games that...hey, that's not free by any means...wtf!
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
That seems to be the general concensus but its seriously wrong from the start. I NEVER pay a dime in a F2P game and it never stopped me from doing all the content in every single games. We aren't in 2005 anymore where most F2P MMO locked content and made you buy stuff in the cash shop to unlock it. Sure there's may be some MMO that still doing this kind of model, but they are the minority and if you are stupid enough to play that kind of game and spent more money in their cash shop than a sub in a P2P, well blame yourself, not the game. The game didn't force you to play or pay for anything.
Also, I would like to know, which MMO you've played recently that was F2P and made you pay more than a sub in a P2P game?
Now since they decided to go P2P isntead, they essentially need a player to spend money on an extra 4 months for every player they lose due to this decision.
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
You could be right, but I am not just basing it on forums. I am basing it on forums, comments, videos, and the general public.
There is no doubt by going P2P the number of players will lower by a fair bit, that is just going to happen no matter what. How much is the hard part to gauge though. The only way you can gauge it is by the comments.
Now under normal circumstances you might be correct. However, you have to remember a large portion of the fans of this game are TES fans. They may have only been interested because it's an TES game. They simply may not be interested in MMOs. By making it P2P ... a lot of those fans, simply will pass this game up.
The mmo fans are the ones who where initially skeptical of this games success to begin with. They are going to lose some of these people as well. They are all to familiar with how easy it is to be fooled. It's happened time and time again. How many times do you think they are willing to make the same mistake?
Then you also have to include the players who can not afford paying the monthly fees. Students in college as an example. They may not be willing to spend the $15 a month for the amount of time they would be able to spend playing it.
Then you have the people who simply do not like sub based mmos to begin with.
So while my numbers may not be entirely correct, I really can't be that far off in my opinion. P2P is going to alienate a lot of players, and that shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's minds.
Then you also have to think about the amount of players who are assuming it's going to go F2P. These players will simply wait.
B2P to me would have made so much sense for this game. No matter how much I think about it, it always seemed like the obvious choice to me. It pretty much assures that you will at least get a sale for anyone who is interested in the game.
As I said before, Just about every TES fan WOULD have purchased it. That would have been automatically just about 9 - 12 million copies sold.
Anyway, that is my opinion. It may not end up being true I suppose, but really we will see. Only time will tell.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?
Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option.
This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content.
I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
The only end game content they have is a boring PvP system that will require little to no attention.
Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
That seems to be the general concensus but its seriously wrong from the start. I NEVER pay a dime in a F2P game and it never stopped me from doing all the content in every single games. We aren't in 2005 anymore where most F2P MMO locked content and made you buy stuff in the cash shop to unlock it. Sure there's may be some MMO that still doing this kind of model, but they are the minority and if you are stupid enough to play that kind of game and spent more money in their cash shop than a sub in a P2P, well blame yourself, not the game. The game didn't force you to play or pay for anything.
Also, I would like to know, which MMO you've played recently that was F2P and made you pay more than a sub in a P2P game?
^This.. I have played plenty of F2P mmo's and never spent a dime.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
The only end game content they have is a boring PvP system that will require little to no attention.
Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.
Lol, I could code that by myself in a few days, and I don't even know programming. The content is already there, and all they are doing is changing #s.
That is no more end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option.
This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content.
I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
The only end game content they have is a boring PvP system that will require little to no attention.
Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.
Lol, I could code that by myself in a few days, and I don't even know programming. The content is already there, and all they are doing is changing #s.
That matters why?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option.
This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content.
I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?
The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle It matters, because it isn't end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by adidassnofkle Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?
The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
DAOC was a mediocre game, and was never all that popular. They have done well to remain sub, but I am sure cost had a lot to do with that. Besides, there are lots of other old games you can point to that have been far more successful.
How does it require a lot of attention? What do the devs need to do? Reset it after a few months? I think DAOC itself proves it doesn't! Look how little income they have coming in, and yet they can maintain their servers. GW2 is another example.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle It matters, because it isn't end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle It matters, because it isn't end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Yah, another month sub for a B2P game.
This is pure unadulterated corporate greed!
Endgame content means things to do after you hit cap.....Which if you read my post and understood it was what I was talking about.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
And this is why TESO is failing in the TES community.
DaoC is not popular, it only has a few thousand subs, just like Asherons Call still has, the reason they can run with such a small amount of subs is due to no real cost to keep such an old game running, hell even UO, the Real, Meridian 59 and NWNO are still running....DaoC was never popular, it wasn't even in the top 5 of its time and many of its fans are backing CU more since its closer to DaoC.
NOR DOES IT TARGET THE IPS AUDIENCE IN ANY WAY.
TES is not popular because of PvP. Its popular for its detailed story, depth and freedom. Something TESO is lacking in and even many of the TES fans that like PvP HATE the idea that the PvP is centered behind an invisible wall that closes off the open world they expect in a TES game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Now since they decided to go P2P isntead, they essentially need a player to spend money on an extra 4 months for every player they lose due to this decision.
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
That isn't an assumption, that is a fact. The more things cost the fewer people are willing to buy them. And no, we aren't talking about an extra 30 cents for the name bran ramen noodles. We are talking about larger purchases.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option.
This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content.
I
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?
The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
DAOC was a mediocre game, and was never all that popular. They have done well to remain sub, but I am sure cost had a lot to do with that. Besides, there are lots of other old games you can point to that have been far more successful.
How does it require a lot of attention? What do the devs need to do? Reset it after a few months? I think DAOC itself proves it doesn't! Look how little income they have coming in, and yet they can maintain their servers. GW2 is another example.
Huge game, awesome game and revolutionized PvP in MMOs.
Still has a huge following, and still paying a sub after 12 years!
TESO is built around PvP, so the DAOC system they are using will fit perfectly.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by adidassnofkle It matters, because it isn't end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Yah, another month sub for a B2P game.
This is pure unadulterated corporate greed!
Endgame content means things to do after you hit cap.....Which if you read my post and understood it was what I was talking about.
If you want to define it as end game content, then that is fine. Problem is it is a few days worth of content. What happens after that? Where is the new end game content? The only enduring end game content is the PvP, and lets be honest, it will only be interesting for a short time. There has been no recent MMORPG to stand on PvP alone.
They just can't seem to do anything right, can they? It's a no-go for me. The amount of content and the overall lackluster feel of the game doesn't warrant a fee. Some games do, like Wildstar, but not this title. I hoped they would've released as buy to play, given the success Guild Wars 2 has experienced with that model. They're only alienating more players, especially the console players. I doubt many will want to pay for their live service and the game's fee additionally. They're in for a reality check.
Originally posted by adidassnofkle It matters, because it isn't end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Yah, another month sub for a B2P game.
This is pure unadulterated corporate greed!
Endgame content means things to do after you hit cap.....Which if you read my post and understood it was what I was talking about.
If you want to define it as end game content, then that is fine. Problem is it is a few days worth of content. What happens after that? Where is the new end game content? The only enduring end game content is the PvP, and lets be honest, it will only be interesting for a short time. There has been no recent MMORPG to stand on PvP alone.
Did you read my original post or did you just focus on one sentence?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
So, 180 dollar per year is alot to some people? Really? You should go and get a job then and stop playing FTP games.
Seriously, get a job, i mean it.
That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
Ill take that 15 dollar a month. Cheaper. No roadblocks. No frustration with silly chests dropping that have BIS gear,... if opened with a cashshop key.
And again. Get a job, then you will not even notice that 15 dollar a month. Hell, show me a cheaper hobby that gives that many hours of fun.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
While I applaud companies shifting away from F2P suck, I'm not seeing how this game will be worth a sub.
TESO is following the GW2 template of being a single player game that's online. No structured grouping and a definite planned lack of MMORPG features. What is going to make it worth a sub? I'm not seeing it.
Skyrim is an awesome game. Skyrim where you host a persistent world yourself ala minecraft or cubeworld servers, where you could have a few friends play with you in a persistent world. That would rock. Paying some kind of fee for a steady stream of content for something like that would be worth it.
Single player gameplay on a server filled with pinheads? What's the point? Some of the best elements of ES series are the immersion and quality of PvE content. You're not going to get immersed with xXDrizzt732Xx running naked across your screen shouting doodspeak and the quality of PvE will be diminished by the fact that there are 50 other people running all over the place when you want to do or view something. And where exactly does PvP fit in for a series of games that has had absolutely zero PvP in it for over 10 years?
F2P is trash. All players should have the same opportunities where how much and how well you play determine your success, not how much you're willing to pay.
F2P has lower quality players overall. People who think they deserve free games. People who act like tools because they're not paying and don't care about the game or other people playing. People who are flitting around between lots of games and as such are useless to guilds or community. You can have this in sub-based but it's amplified considerably in F2P.
Pay 2 win and facilitated cheating (currency exchange systems where players ultimately pay cash for in-game currency) are both lame. Losers who can't be bothered to play games and would rather buy their way thru them should just not play games.
Cash shops with fluff items that destroy immersion are lame (bikinis, cowboy hats, similar nonsens in fantasy themed worlds for ex).
Microtransactions or cash barriers are lame.
Limited features and paying to get reasonable service or to get a experience in the game (say with number of character slots, bag capacity, bank capacity) are lame. The prices they charge for this are ridiculous? Why, because they know some scrubs won't pay at all but some will so the people that will pay get to pay more to subsidize losers.
The only real positive to F2P is that it lets you dink with sub par games that aren't worth a sub or to revisit games you used to play when you thought they were a sub but stopped playing once you figured out they're not worth a sub. For games that are worth a sub, the sub is trivial, or should be, and if it's not, you should probably have other priorities in life besides gaming or maybe MMORPGs aren't for you and you should stick to playing $70 console games that...hey, that's not free by any means...wtf!
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
That seems to be the general concensus but its seriously wrong from the start. I NEVER pay a dime in a F2P game and it never stopped me from doing all the content in every single games. We aren't in 2005 anymore where most F2P MMO locked content and made you buy stuff in the cash shop to unlock it. Sure there's may be some MMO that still doing this kind of model, but they are the minority and if you are stupid enough to play that kind of game and spent more money in their cash shop than a sub in a P2P, well blame yourself, not the game. The game didn't force you to play or pay for anything.
Also, I would like to know, which MMO you've played recently that was F2P and made you pay more than a sub in a P2P game?
You could be right, but I am not just basing it on forums. I am basing it on forums, comments, videos, and the general public.
There is no doubt by going P2P the number of players will lower by a fair bit, that is just going to happen no matter what. How much is the hard part to gauge though. The only way you can gauge it is by the comments.
Now under normal circumstances you might be correct. However, you have to remember a large portion of the fans of this game are TES fans. They may have only been interested because it's an TES game. They simply may not be interested in MMOs. By making it P2P ... a lot of those fans, simply will pass this game up.
The mmo fans are the ones who where initially skeptical of this games success to begin with. They are going to lose some of these people as well. They are all to familiar with how easy it is to be fooled. It's happened time and time again. How many times do you think they are willing to make the same mistake?
Then you also have to include the players who can not afford paying the monthly fees. Students in college as an example. They may not be willing to spend the $15 a month for the amount of time they would be able to spend playing it.
Then you have the people who simply do not like sub based mmos to begin with.
So while my numbers may not be entirely correct, I really can't be that far off in my opinion. P2P is going to alienate a lot of players, and that shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's minds.
Then you also have to think about the amount of players who are assuming it's going to go F2P. These players will simply wait.
B2P to me would have made so much sense for this game. No matter how much I think about it, it always seemed like the obvious choice to me. It pretty much assures that you will at least get a sale for anyone who is interested in the game.
As I said before, Just about every TES fan WOULD have purchased it. That would have been automatically just about 9 - 12 million copies sold.
Anyway, that is my opinion. It may not end up being true I suppose, but really we will see. Only time will tell.
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
^This.. I have played plenty of F2P mmo's and never spent a dime.
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
The only end game content they have is a boring PvP system that will require little to no attention.Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.
Lol, I could code that by myself in a few days, and I don't even know programming. The content is already there, and all they are doing is changing #s.
That is no more end game content! It is no different than making an alt on another faction. It is a glorified alt system.That matters why?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Funny part is, Zen is the only studio out of the three (sub based) contenders coming up that have talked any significant amount about "end-game" content. As far as furthering that content who knows, with their actual RvR, and Three different worlds of PVE content, they seem to have quite a bit in regard to that. All WS and FFXIv have shown or talked about are raids and dungeons.
If you are talking about WS, then they have talked about endgame constantly. Throughout the whole development process all they have talked about is end game and content updates.
Primarily ESO devs have talked about lockpicking & RvRvR & Hand animations in 1st person. Ya know gimmicky stuff. I don't wan't gimmicks, I want meat!
The only end game content they have that I am aware of is a boring PvP system. That will require little to no attention. Have the devs ever even said the word update?The PvP system is just like DAOC, a well known and very popular game, even after 10 plus years. It still has a sub too.
So no, your wrong, the PvP in TESO will require lots of attention. The zones are even bigger than DAOC.
DAOC was a mediocre game, and was never all that popular. They have done well to remain sub, but I am sure cost had a lot to do with that. Besides, there are lots of other old games you can point to that have been far more successful.
How does it require a lot of attention? What do the devs need to do? Reset it after a few months? I think DAOC itself proves it doesn't! Look how little income they have coming in, and yet they can maintain their servers. GW2 is another example.What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Yah, another month sub for a B2P game.
This is pure unadulterated corporate greed!Endgame content means things to do after you hit cap.....Which if you read my post and understood it was what I was talking about.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And this is why TESO is failing in the TES community.
DaoC is not popular, it only has a few thousand subs, just like Asherons Call still has, the reason they can run with such a small amount of subs is due to no real cost to keep such an old game running, hell even UO, the Real, Meridian 59 and NWNO are still running....DaoC was never popular, it wasn't even in the top 5 of its time and many of its fans are backing CU more since its closer to DaoC.
NOR DOES IT TARGET THE IPS AUDIENCE IN ANY WAY.
TES is not popular because of PvP. Its popular for its detailed story, depth and freedom. Something TESO is lacking in and even many of the TES fans that like PvP HATE the idea that the PvP is centered behind an invisible wall that closes off the open world they expect in a TES game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Now since they decided to go P2P isntead, they essentially need a player to spend money on an extra 4 months for every player they lose due to this decision.
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
That isn't an assumption, that is a fact. The more things cost the fewer people are willing to buy them. And no, we aren't talking about an extra 30 cents for the name bran ramen noodles. We are talking about larger purchases.Huge game, awesome game and revolutionized PvP in MMOs.
Still has a huge following, and still paying a sub after 12 years!
TESO is built around PvP, so the DAOC system they are using will fit perfectly.
Perhaps minecraft is more your style?
What it is is a reason to spend another months sub, that's all that matters.
A month worth of questing? Lets be honest here, a few days worth of questing & exploring, not months. Regardless, this isn't end game content.
Yah, another month sub for a B2P game.
This is pure unadulterated corporate greed!Endgame content means things to do after you hit cap.....Which if you read my post and understood it was what I was talking about.
If you want to define it as end game content, then that is fine. Problem is it is a few days worth of content. What happens after that? Where is the new end game content? The only enduring end game content is the PvP, and lets be honest, it will only be interesting for a short time. There has been no recent MMORPG to stand on PvP alone.Did you read my original post or did you just focus on one sentence?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson