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Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Gorwe Originally posted by MMORPGtester well me and the wife were going to play this one. We have played every single one they made and loved them all. I however am not willing to pay for the game, then pay for a monthly fee tho. When there are so many free ones we can jump to and from. I guess our elder scrolls hit the last scroll.
I wanted to address this one.
You said "We have played every single one they made". That is ABSOLUTELY wrong. Them(Zenimax Online studios) haven't made a single TES game besides this one. All the other ones are made by Bethesda(who is only helping with lore of TESO it seems). So, there shouldn't be any hard feelings(besides the missed opportunity) seeing how BethSoft had NOTHING to do with it.
Glad to resolve your confusion.
You do know that Zenimax Online owns both Bethesda and the studio they created specifically for making this MMO, Zenimax Studios don't you? Details...details... don't let them get in your way of a good rant though.
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Originally posted by Adalwulff Originally posted by adidassnofkle Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Brabbit1987 It's really getting so much negativity ... it wouldn't shock me if they changed it even before launch.
they will keep it p2p because they know that some "gamers" will complain no matter what but in the end still buy it/subscribe. Then they will keep it p2p but if subs fall below a certain threshhold they will "then" add some sort of freemium plan.
They will get more money up front with p2p as opposed to the inundation of players who have no intent of paying a dime but still flooding servers at launch.
And again with the boycott threats.
Also, you are wrong. It would be illegal for anyone to start up a server for people to play TESO for free. I cant believe you even said it.
Originally posted by Gorwe Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by Gorwe Originally posted by MMORPGtester well me and the wife were going to play this one. We have played every single one they made and loved them all. I however am not willing to pay for the game, then pay for a monthly fee tho. When there are so many free ones we can jump to and from. I guess our elder scrolls hit the last scroll.
You got it wrong. Zenimax LLC is the owner of both Zenimax Online AND Bethesda. We'll call Zen.LLC A, Zen.Online B and BethSoft C. A=B+C. B is strictly different than C.
Basically what you are saying is that Activision and Blizz were the same studio while they worked under Vivendi. Excuse me?
Hardly a relevant example... it'd be the same as saying that Zenimax is EA and they acquired Bethesda, specially since it was started by Chris Weaver the Bethesda founder.
Your portrayal of the relationship is just plain wrong. Zmax studios can more accurately be described as the MMO arm of Bethesda - not this alien entity you're trying to make them out to be.
This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content.
It is like GW2 launching with a subscription! This is pure unadulterated greed.
Mark my words this game will be B2P within 6 months.
That said though, they will likely make more money this way than they ever would with just B2P.
Damn greedy corporations!
Originally posted by Makidian If ESO were a single player game then I would understand you b2p guys, but this is an mmo so p2p is a good thing.
It isn't an MMO...just ask Zenimax when they are talking to TES fans. This is just a multiplayer TES game according to them. And being in beta...it isn't even that. Its SWTOR all over again. a failed Multiplayer RPG that lacks the depth of an MMO and the quality of a SRPG. Hell, at least SWTOR had a decent story and, lol, better graphics. Oblivion looks better than TESO and worse yet, the has the combat animation almost as bad as TSW.
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Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
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Originally posted by Makidian If $15 a month is a lot to you then you can't afford popcorn sir.
o.o *coughs* Not sure where you get your popcorn from. But it's certainly not even close to that expensive. I guess it was a good try at being funny though ... I guess.
Also ... I think I would get more out of spending $15 a month on popcorn then I would spending $60 initially and $15 a month for TESO. At least the popcorn feeds me xD.
I am sorry but $200+ for a single game for 1 year is to much to me. It doesn't seem like much till you play it for 4 years .. then you realize you wasted $500 - $600 on one game. Sounds expensive to me. I think people are nuts for willing to spend such money with out a second thought.
Originally posted by jtcgs Originally posted by Makidian If ESO were a single player game then I would understand you b2p guys, but this is an mmo so p2p is a good thing.
Pretty much sums up my opinion as well.
I personally feel that they know, much like Bioware knew, that their game is subpar. They're getting as much out of boxes and subs as they can before a transition to another model. It is what it is but i do agree that the first thing i thought of upon logging in was TOR all over again.
gameplay > graphics
So, 180 dollar per year is alot to some people? Really? You should go and get a job then and stop playing FTP games.
Seriously, get a job, i mean it.
That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
Ill take that 15 dollar a month. Cheaper. No roadblocks. No frustration with silly chests dropping that have BIS gear,... if opened with a cashshop key.
And again. Get a job, then you will not even notice that 15 dollar a month. Hell, show me a cheaper hobby that gives that many hours of fun.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Now since they decided to go P2P isntead, they essentially need a player to spend money on an extra 4 months for every player they lose due to this decision.
The problem with your argument is that you base it on some facts (your estimate of sales is good) but you then base it on a huge assumption.
that the amount of players who won't buy because of p2p is large. You are basing this on forum bitching.
Some of these forum complainers will complain and then cave in and buy the game anyway.
And through the years I've noted certain individuals on this site who claimed they wouldn't play a game or that they were quitting and then "yadda, yadda, yadda" they make a post based on them buying the game or going back to it.
So you don't know how many players will not purchase it because of this decision, only that some players on a forum say they won't. "Yes" it is true that some really won't buy it but the numbers are anyone's guess.
While I applaud companies shifting away from F2P suck, I'm not seeing how this game will be worth a sub.
TESO is following the GW2 template of being a single player game that's online. No structured grouping and a definite planned lack of MMORPG features. What is going to make it worth a sub? I'm not seeing it.
Skyrim is an awesome game. Skyrim where you host a persistent world yourself ala minecraft or cubeworld servers, where you could have a few friends play with you in a persistent world. That would rock. Paying some kind of fee for a steady stream of content for something like that would be worth it.
Single player gameplay on a server filled with pinheads? What's the point? Some of the best elements of ES series are the immersion and quality of PvE content. You're not going to get immersed with xXDrizzt732Xx running naked across your screen shouting doodspeak and the quality of PvE will be diminished by the fact that there are 50 other people running all over the place when you want to do or view something. And where exactly does PvP fit in for a series of games that has had absolutely zero PvP in it for over 10 years?
F2P is trash. All players should have the same opportunities where how much and how well you play determine your success, not how much you're willing to pay.
F2P has lower quality players overall. People who think they deserve free games. People who act like tools because they're not paying and don't care about the game or other people playing. People who are flitting around between lots of games and as such are useless to guilds or community. You can have this in sub-based but it's amplified considerably in F2P.
Pay 2 win and facilitated cheating (currency exchange systems where players ultimately pay cash for in-game currency) are both lame. Losers who can't be bothered to play games and would rather buy their way thru them should just not play games.
Cash shops with fluff items that destroy immersion are lame (bikinis, cowboy hats, similar nonsens in fantasy themed worlds for ex).
Microtransactions or cash barriers are lame.
Limited features and paying to get reasonable service or to get a experience in the game (say with number of character slots, bag capacity, bank capacity) are lame. The prices they charge for this are ridiculous? Why, because they know some scrubs won't pay at all but some will so the people that will pay get to pay more to subsidize losers.
The only real positive to F2P is that it lets you dink with sub par games that aren't worth a sub or to revisit games you used to play when you thought they were a sub but stopped playing once you figured out they're not worth a sub. For games that are worth a sub, the sub is trivial, or should be, and if it's not, you should probably have other priorities in life besides gaming or maybe MMORPGs aren't for you and you should stick to playing $70 console games that...hey, that's not free by any means...wtf!
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Originally posted by Zaradoom That being said: 180 dollar per year is alot less then FTP games go for, unless you are part of the vocal minority that really never pays a cent. About every ftp game i tried made me pay way more then 180 a year to unlock the basics of the game, let alone the full game.
That seems to be the general concensus but its seriously wrong from the start. I NEVER pay a dime in a F2P game and it never stopped me from doing all the content in every single games. We aren't in 2005 anymore where most F2P MMO locked content and made you buy stuff in the cash shop to unlock it. Sure there's may be some MMO that still doing this kind of model, but they are the minority and if you are stupid enough to play that kind of game and spent more money in their cash shop than a sub in a P2P, well blame yourself, not the game. The game didn't force you to play or pay for anything.
Also, I would like to know, which MMO you've played recently that was F2P and made you pay more than a sub in a P2P game?
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Brabbit1987
You could be right, but I am not just basing it on forums. I am basing it on forums, comments, videos, and the general public.
There is no doubt by going P2P the number of players will lower by a fair bit, that is just going to happen no matter what. How much is the hard part to gauge though. The only way you can gauge it is by the comments.
Now under normal circumstances you might be correct. However, you have to remember a large portion of the fans of this game are TES fans. They may have only been interested because it's an TES game. They simply may not be interested in MMOs. By making it P2P ... a lot of those fans, simply will pass this game up.
The mmo fans are the ones who where initially skeptical of this games success to begin with. They are going to lose some of these people as well. They are all to familiar with how easy it is to be fooled. It's happened time and time again. How many times do you think they are willing to make the same mistake?
Then you also have to include the players who can not afford paying the monthly fees. Students in college as an example. They may not be willing to spend the $15 a month for the amount of time they would be able to spend playing it.
Then you have the people who simply do not like sub based mmos to begin with.
So while my numbers may not be entirely correct, I really can't be that far off in my opinion. P2P is going to alienate a lot of players, and that shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's minds.
Then you also have to think about the amount of players who are assuming it's going to go F2P. These players will simply wait.
B2P to me would have made so much sense for this game. No matter how much I think about it, it always seemed like the obvious choice to me. It pretty much assures that you will at least get a sale for anyone who is interested in the game.
As I said before, Just about every TES fan WOULD have purchased it. That would have been automatically just about 9 - 12 million copies sold.
Anyway, that is my opinion. It may not end up being true I suppose, but really we will see. Only time will tell.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
Originally posted by adidassnofkle Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by adidassnofkle I predicted ESO would become P2P, but only under as the worst possible option. This game seems to clearly be a B2P quality game, and they are using its IP and hype to go P2P. They have no intent at all to make end game content. I
Uh, they have two whole other continents of content to play through as well.