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Elder Scrolls Online: Subscription Model Announced

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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

  • nuttobnuttob Plantation, FLPosts: 291Member
    It's easy to see that by the time EQ Next comes out we will have a total of 3 more FTP options...
  • DrDreamDrDream Mill Hall, PAPosts: 163Member
    Originally posted by Xarko
    Originally posted by vmoped
    Originally posted by DrDream
    Originally posted by Xarko
    Well this gonna be interesting. Since ESO and Wildstar plan to launch around the same time and both go p2p, most people who wanted to try both will just choose one of them. ESO might win this fight thx to IP.

    Personally im still going for Wildstar, i may try ESO when it has a free trial or if i hear amazing things otherwise im not much for Real time combat in my MMO's i like Tab-target.

    From what I understand I believe Wildstar is action combat as well.  Both use telegraphs, dodge mechanics, limited action bars, and cone/aoe for hit determination.  I haven't played either, so maybe I have the wrong impression here.

    Cheers!

     

    You are right, Wildstar is not tab-target. Actually even ESO is closer to tab-target than WS, because it has abilities locked on red marked targets.

     

    damn i couold have sworn it was tab-target with a splash of aiming kinda like some moba characters from oh say Heroes of newerth mostly devo comes to mind. either way i guess its good i got FFXIV:ARR im hoping it sucks me in as much as ive heard about it.

    image

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by onlinenow25

    What console player wants to pay another monthly fee to play a single game?  Not to mention on fragmented servers where PC/Xbone/PS4 are all on separate servers.  

     

    It's not like this sort of thing doesn't have precedent

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Elite

    http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/xbox-one-unboxing-key-features-locked-behind-subscription-fees-video/

     

     

    Hell with Xbox Live they try to lock you into a 24 month (!!!!) contract

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms

    Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

    Year One of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

    Months Post Purchase  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    ETF for Cancellation $250 $250 $250 $240 $228 $216 $204 $192 $180 $168 $156 $144

     

    Year Two of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

    Months Post Purchase  13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    ETF for Cancellation $132 $120 $108 $96 $84 $72 $60 $48 $36 $24 $12 $0
     
     

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • DrDreamDrDream Mill Hall, PAPosts: 163Member
    Originally posted by DeVoDeVo
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    The frustrated tears

    Of the F2P kiddies

    Taste just like candy.

     

     

    Edit for Haiku

     

    So many sub games

    Soon they will change their model

    F2P laughs last

     

     

    Just kidding around:)

     

    I truly hope F2P doesnt laugh last so many games get ruined by F2P b/c the community of a game is flooded with rude/disgusting/arrogant players who come in a spew out WOW CLONE WOW CLONE! or other stupid stuff like Barrens chat use to be.

    image

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

    Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

    And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

    (I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

  • onlinenow25onlinenow25 San Diego, CAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by onlinenow25

    What console player wants to pay another monthly fee to play a single game?  Not to mention on fragmented servers where PC/Xbone/PS4 are all on separate servers.  

     

    It's not like this sort of thing doesn't have precedent

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Elite

    http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/xbox-one-unboxing-key-features-locked-behind-subscription-fees-video/

     

     

    Hell with Xbox Live they try to lock you into a 24 month (!!!!) contract

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox-live-contract-terms

    Schedule of Early Termination Fees to be paid to Microsoft:

    Year One of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

    Months Post Purchase  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    ETF for Cancellation $250 $250 $250 $240 $228 $216 $204 $192 $180 $168 $156 $144

     

    Year Two of Subscription (Months After Purchase)

    Months Post Purchase  13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    ETF for Cancellation $132 $120 $108 $96 $84 $72 $60 $48 $36 $24 $12 $0
     
     

    And that is just another reason I will not be getting the new Xbox.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

    Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

    And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

    (I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

    I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

    You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

    I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

    And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

    But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nanoentity

    KEY WORD!

    "changes to which we just were not ready"

    Which means the game will go Free 2 Play like the others at the later date...

     

    Skyrim is only successful becouse of the 9,000,000,000,000 MODS there are for the game.

    Skyrim Online (AKA 

    Elder Scrolls Online)

    will have 0 MODS...

     
     

    I think there's merit in your first statement and your second statement shows that you are just saying things.

    Not only do the console sales outmatch the pc sales by a significant portion but if you look at the mod downloads that are, available, very very rarely,do these downloads get into thousands. The most popular downloads, on skyrimnexus, not including their mod manager, "might" break into 1,000 plus and I did see a mod that had 3,000 plus.

    that's hardly a dent into the 10 million + sales that the game has sold.

    Skyrim Nexus isn't where most people are getting their mods - Steam is. Take a look at the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. It paints a very different picture.;)

     

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 664Member Uncommon

    This is AWESOME!!!!

     

    Ok so FF 14 Check!

    Wildstar Check!

    TESO Check (was not even considering this until now)

     

    Looks like 2013/2014 is going to be dark days for the leechers who feel it's their right and entitlement to not have to pay nor support the very entertainment they are so passionate about.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by nanoentity

    KEY WORD!

    "changes to which we just were not ready"

    Which means the game will go Free 2 Play like the others at the later date...

     

    Skyrim is only successful becouse of the 9,000,000,000,000 MODS there are for the game.

    Skyrim Online (AKA 

    Elder Scrolls Online)

    will have 0 MODS...

     
     

    I think there's merit in your first statement and your second statement shows that you are just saying things.

    Not only do the console sales outmatch the pc sales by a significant portion but if you look at the mod downloads that are, available, very very rarely,do these downloads get into thousands. The most popular downloads, on skyrimnexus, not including their mod manager, "might" break into 1,000 plus and I did see a mod that had 3,000 plus.

    that's hardly a dent into the 10 million + sales that the game has sold.

    Skyrim Nexus isn't where most people are getting their mods - Steam is. Take a look at the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. It paints a very different picture.;)

     

     

     

     

    And can you point me to individual mods that go into the millions?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Let me explore the entire world from level 1, facing all the challenges and progression from every map no matter what race i am, and ill pay the sub. I dont pay for limited content.

    image
  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

    Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

    And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

    (I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

    I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

    You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

    I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

    And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

    But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

    Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

    Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

    Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

    These developers are not running a charitable organization.

    The investors are not fooling around.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,379Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fly666monkey
    A now to circle overhead like a vulture... in time, TESO, in time...

     This actually made me laugh..   Well played sir.

     

    I actually give them props for choosing 12.99 rather than the standard BS number that's been attached to subs for how many years now?  

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • captainpostcaptainpost Raymond, NHPosts: 2Member Common
    I'll wait till it goes F2P. After Guild Wars 2 being pay once play forever and Rift going F2P. There is no reason for another 15 dollars a month MMO. The market has changed. 
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NBlitz
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

    Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

    And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

    (I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

    I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

    You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

    I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

    And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

    But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

    Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

    Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

    Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

    These developers are not running a charitable organization.

    The investors are not fooling around.

    I like it when someone comes up with cool hard and really not made up facts!

  • TookyGTookyG Warhammer Online Correspondent Alameda, CAPosts: 1,188Member
    I have no interest in TESO but I'm thrilled they're going P2P.  Same with FFXIV and Wildstar.  Down with F2P!  That fact that EQ Next will be F2P is so disappointing.

    Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  • HusvikHusvik Somewhere, ONPosts: 440Member

    Bookmark my words.


    They will launch suck up box sales on the shiny new factor, ride monthly subs until the novelty wears off, and once subs plummet, they will go F2P and then nickel dime you to death.

    It’s the “real” new pricing model. Watch and learn.

    You heard it here first, I’m so sure of this i would bet on it.

  • TookyGTookyG Warhammer Online Correspondent Alameda, CAPosts: 1,188Member
    Originally posted by r3t3

    Bookmark my words.


    They will launch suck up box sales on the shiny new factor, ride monthly subs until the novelty wears off, and once subs plummet, they will go F2P and then nickel dime you to death.

    It’s the “real” new pricing model. Watch and learn.

    You heard it here first, I’m so sure of this i would bet on it.

     

    Of course they will.  TESO won't have the draw to stay P2P.  Just the fact that they're launching with P2P, however, pleases me.

    Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  • swedagoswedago GrevePosts: 72Member Uncommon
    I am glad they are going P2P...  Keeps the riff raff out =P

    image
  • achesomaachesoma Portland, ORPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bdew

    So FFXIV, Wildstar and now TESO are all sub based, I can't be happier.

    So tired of all thos bullshit nickle-and-dime P2W cash shop crap.

    I have to agree. The phrase "free to play" is the biggest misnomer  in this genre. I also believe a lot of these F2P games will eventually crash and burn in the coming years. Reminds me of the old Dot Coms bubble burst in 2000. 

    image

  • Shanks123Shanks123 Newburgh, NYPosts: 100Member
    nothing worse then people who complain about 50 cents a day. get your ass off the internet and go to work/school if you cant afford that.

    I'm Here. I'm Awesome. Get Used To It.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by bloodaxes

    I saw posts saying wildstar will fail for being P2P when there's ESO and EQN being f2p.

    Now that ESO is P2P too their only hope for free is EQN.

    Unless..... 

    im betting EQN will have an optional sub image

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    So is this game going to be $60 and sub?  I would possibly consider it at $30 and a sub after the first month (assuming the game isn't a linear quest hub themepark).

     

    No way will I pay $60 and a sub for Wildstar or this game.  I'll give both games  6 - 12 months before Freemium kicks in and then I will give them a try.

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy
    Originally posted by NBlitz
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Gorwe
    The idea of paying for something that is ABSOLUTELY unnecessary(the sub) just abhors me. As was visible by games such as GW1, GW 2, LoL, DoTA 2, SMITE, TSW(you choose the game),... it is CLEARLY visible that there is NO need for subscriptions.

    You have no idea as to what is necessary or not.

    GW1 was b2p and slowly added a cash shop. GW 2 launched with a cash shop.

    I haven't played the others but do they have cash shops? can you buy things and spend money other than the purchase of the game.?

     

    As I said in another thread, these games need "x" amount of dollars to stay afloat. Period. Developers moved to f2p because, though it does lower the barrier to entry and keep a healthy (hopefully) churn going, it uncaps the amounts that players can spend and a certain demographic will spend quite a lot.

    But with that model, they don't know how much money they will rake in from month to month and they need to constantly monetize new aspcects of their game to keep money flowing.

    The amount of money that it takes to run these things (and I'm not talking about internet use) is still the same. All developres/producers have done is try to figure out a way to get more of it. If you aren't paying then I can assure you someone else is paying for you.

    Regardless if this bothers you or not the bill is being paid. And once they have sold as much as they can they will come up with new ways to make ends meet.

    Game costs for development and keeping the company afloat haven't magically gone away.

    Yes, they have costume or such cash shops. Similar to GW 1. But it DOES NOT bother me! It's not like the dreaded pay2win(which is a nonsense outside of TRUE f2ps-as long as it is obtainable within the game, it is not pay2win).

    And yes. It is 110% unnecessary. I can't see how have we returned from the Modern ages(B2P, Freemium) to the Middle ages(P2P). Is just...wrong. Heh it reminds me of Egypt and how they are regressing back what with salafists and all.

    (I blame the CIA! They are ALWAYS guilty xD )

    I'm not talking about pay to win. I'm talking about "games need x amount of dollars to stay afloat.

    You are essentially making a statement saying that games only need to charge for initial cost of the game and if they have a cosmetic shop then that's fine "no biggie".

    I'm saying that games need x amount of dollars and game companies need to make that money. If they charge a monthly fee they make x amount of dollars. If they get rid of that monthly fee they still need those dollars so they hope that they can make enough oncosmetics.

    And they constantly have to offer new cosmetics, I see a banker's gollum there and I wonder what else? Doesn't matter, they still need the money. "X" amount of dollars always needs to be made. And if they don't get it one way they get it another. So "no" you don't know what is needed to keep these games afloat. All you see is that "now" they get their money from others willing to pay it and it doesn't affect you as it once did.

    But yet you have no idea the costs these business still have to incur.

    Exactly what I was getting at earlier.

    Let's not forget that games are becoming more expensive to develop. On WoW it used to take them a week to create a new monster. Nowadays it can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks to complete. Add in several more weeks just to complete a boss creature.

    Larger feature sets. Graphics. Having to hit the ground running vs other titles already launched and beefed up with content.

    These developers are not running a charitable organization.

    The investors are not fooling around.

    I like it when someone comes up with cool hard and really not made up facts!

    I got my "really not made up facts" from a column WoW's former Team lead, Mark Kern, wrote a while ago.

    Mark Kern: MMO Development Needs Change

     

    Edit: derp, grammar.

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