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Stop complaining about the gameplay.. This is what we asked for.

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Comments

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member

    It might be what YOU asked for but I've never asked for any solo heavy MMORPGs with ultra dumbed down gameplay.

     

    I don't want a full return to the classics, I'd rather have something somewhat in between, but one thing I DO want is a return to the MM in MMORPG...and to me that means grouping, community, less solo...I don't play MMORPGs to solo, there are WAY better single player games out there for solo play.  The best part of MMORPGs is the cooperative element, and without that being the focus, the games are lame (and ultimately fail).

     

    I seriously don't think anybody asked for what's been done in FFXIV, because the mentality this game is shooting for (ultra dumbed down and simplistic) is most suited to infants that can't even talk yet.  :P

     

    Seriously, even the most casual of the casual should be insulted because SQEN obviously thinks most players are helpless fools.  The intro parts of the game feel like they are literally designed for small children and ~20 levels of "tutorial" gameplay is a wee bit drastic.

     

    The problem is, MMORPGs have two main audiences.  Those who prefer challenge and group based play, and those who do not, and no dev can satisfy both.  This is the main flaw tihe post WoW clones - they try to do both.  Early MMORPGs, which were successful and still run today, only really went for the challenge/group crowd.  The horrific new trend in so-called MMORPGs is the GS2/TESO(/likely EQN too) style of not even really attempting to be an MMORPG and just being and online game for soloists.  There is no challenge in solo.  Solo has to be doable by the least common denominator of every class and role.  Solo cannot be anything other than solo ez mode - not in an MMORPG - maybe in a single player game with a difficulty setting.

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member

    I don't see how anyone can call any recent MMO a WoW clone. First of all, that complaint is probably 75% baseless because a genre tends to follow a mold. It's like calling every FPS, a Counter Strike-clone because they all involve shooting weapons.


    I wouldn't call FFXIV a clone of WoW specifically as a clone of many other MMO's put together. Combined, it makes the game itself fairly unique and I believe they implemented the strengths of other MMO's fairly well.


    Hey isn't that what WoW did to develop into one of the greatest games? Take already successful features, implement it into its own game and polish it very well? Wow, by that logic, anyone wanting to actually call FFXIV a WoW clone should ultimately call it an EQ clone because thats the mold every theme-park MMO follows to this day. I'm tired of everyone calling theme park MMO's a WoW clone when they weren't even the first to do it.


    Ultimately, expect games of the same genre to follow the same mold, but expect them to also implement the various features that comprise the genre in its own way. This is what separates the MMO's from each other. Otherwise, if you want to call every other MMO a WoW clone, please call every FPS, a CS clone and every RTS, a Command and Conquer clone, because that is basically what you are doing. Generalizing games way too far.

  • Synns77Synns77 StaffsPosts: 124Member

    Bar the loading screens for every zone this game is everything I've been looking for in an mmo since I quit wow after wotlk so I think this game is awsome. So if it is a everquest/wow clone and personally I think it's got enough differences to be in a class of its own then I'm more than happy with that. I'm sick of these dull action mmos with poorly written story lines. Give me a good old tab targeting RPG any day.

    i say we'll done SE for turning around this 2010 flop and making it a great game.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shrilly

    Originally posted by gessekai332
    again with the wow clone stuff. its like saying call of duty is a doom clone or mortal kombat was a street fighter clone. cant we just say its more like a classic mmorpg? 

    Sounds like a great idea. Should be that way less hate... 

     

    No, a classic MMO would be DAOC, EQ1, AC1, AO, SWG, UO, EVE, L1, or M59. If you ever played them you'd know just how different gameplay can be in this genre. What we have today is clearly a very common model best described as standard theme park but since that tends to be unwieldy people prefer to call them WOW clones, most especially when trying to be insulting.

    Might be inflammatory, but certainly is reasonably accurate as a short descriptor as almost everyone knows exactly what they are trying to say, even if they don't agree with the term.

    But don't ever think this is the only easy an MMORPG has to be designed, they could be so much more, but currently only cater to what developers believe to be the largest target audience.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by daystar18
    i like when people complain about quest trackers/ect.  When those were non existent, most of these same people were the first ones to google/search for locations and guides to where the spots were. They just took one step out of the equation. 

    I remember the days you actually had to read the quest text to know where your objective was. Then you had to wave your cursor around your screen and wait for it to change so you know there was something to interact with. 

     

    Now a days, Every quest box can be replaced with

    "Go to the highlighted circle on your map and click where we sprinkled the glitter"

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    again with the wow clone stuff. its like saying call of duty is a doom clone or mortal kombat was a street fighter clone. cant we just say its more like a classic mmorpg? 

    It follows that "classic" format, but it's no clone. 

     

    Semantics.  If that's so, then every themepark that's ever been accused of being a "WoW-clone" has actually had a "classic" format.

    FFXIV is just as much a WoW-clone as any of them.

    UO, EQ1, DAOC, AC - those were the classic format.

    FFXIV, with quest-helper, fast travel all over the place, cut-up gameworld with tiny zones, etc, isn't "classic" by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how fast and loose people want to play with the language.  It's an easy-mode, post-WoW themepark, just like most games that have come out in the last decade.  It offers the same gameplay in largely the exact same way.

    It's an easy game, and one I've already played a dozen times over the last several years.  It's more of the same.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member

    For those worried about it being a solo game, there seems to be a good amount of required grouping content at least from what I've seen so far.

     

    A lev 16 or so story quest has you going to your first dungeon, required grouping to advance it.

    At lev 17, you have another one.

    At lev 18-19, you have another one.

    At 20 you have yet another one.

     

    Grouping in this game even below cap seems very rewarding.   You get better exp clearing those dungeons than you do doing the solo overworld quests.   The gear drops are also quite a bit better too.   I don't know exactly how they compare to high quality crafted gear of the same level, but they're surely better than what you get for solo quest rewards.

     

    I think you'll be seeing peopel run plenty of group dungeons for a long time.   Unless people want to level purely through guildleves and FATEs or something, the normal world quests you'll have used up when you go back to level more classes.

     

  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by denshing
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    I'm not complaining. I actually managed to comprehend the concept that different games will offer different things. People who are looking for action combat can go look for MMO's with action combat. People wanting traditional tab-target combat can look for those games.

     

    Not sure if that concept is hard for people or if I'm way off base and every game needs to be exactly what I like every time and if it doesn't I should make it my life's duty to troll every thread and try to convince anyone who likes something I don't that they are wrong and are destroying the gaming industry. I'm pretty sure I'm not off base tho...

    Although FFXIV has tab targeting, I wouldn't call it a tab targeting game. It's horrendous at tabbing targets. Tank is on mob and there's one next to him. Most of the time when I tab it doesn't target tanks mob, or the mob next to him, it tabs through 10 other mobs starting with the absolute furthest away possible.

    Are there options to fix that? Or a better alternative to hitting the tab key?

     

    I'd like to know for myself actually.

     There was an f key you could press in ffxi and ffxiv to target closest mob instead of tab.  I havent played in a while but i think it was the f8 key targets closest mob to you.

  • lafaiellafaiel harrisburg, PAPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by denshing
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    I'm not complaining. I actually managed to comprehend the concept that different games will offer different things. People who are looking for action combat can go look for MMO's with action combat. People wanting traditional tab-target combat can look for those games.

     

    Not sure if that concept is hard for people or if I'm way off base and every game needs to be exactly what I like every time and if it doesn't I should make it my life's duty to troll every thread and try to convince anyone who likes something I don't that they are wrong and are destroying the gaming industry. I'm pretty sure I'm not off base tho...

    Although FFXIV has tab targeting, I wouldn't call it a tab targeting game. It's horrendous at tabbing targets. Tank is on mob and there's one next to him. Most of the time when I tab it doesn't target tanks mob, or the mob next to him, it tabs through 10 other mobs starting with the absolute furthest away possible.

    Are there options to fix that? Or a better alternative to hitting the tab key?

     

    I'd like to know for myself actually.

    Macros are your friend, if you play on keyboard and mouse, /action "skill"  <mo> its a mouseover macro, its awsome for healers as you can keep your focus on the tank and cure him with your regular cure and mouseover everyone else with another cure macro.

       That macro also works on people and mobs out of party although I have not tried it with attack spells/skills, but its a healer's friend, there are also assist macros for assisting the tank as a dps and such.  There is an  F key to target the closest mob but I forgot what it was.

     

     On topic, the gameplay felt a little slow at first but then it started feeling just fine a couple levels in, I have no complaints about it at this time.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    again with the wow clone stuff. its like saying call of duty is a doom clone or mortal kombat was a street fighter clone. cant we just say its more like a classic mmorpg? 

    It follows that "classic" format, but it's no clone. 

     

    Semantics.  If that's so, then every themepark that's ever been accused of being a "WoW-clone" has actually had a "classic" format.

    FFXIV is just as much a WoW-clone as any of them.

    UO, EQ1, DAOC, AC - those were the classic format.

    FFXIV, with quest-helper, fast travel all over the place, cut-up gameworld with tiny zones, etc, isn't "classic" by any stretch of the imagination, no matter how fast and loose people want to play with the language.  It's an easy-mode, post-WoW themepark, just like most games that have come out in the last decade.  It offers the same gameplay in largely the exact same way.

    It's an easy game, and one I've already played a dozen times over the last several years.  It's more of the same.

    It shares some fundamental similarities, but it's different enough in my book to distinguish it from a game like Rift that is more of a clone. Just the fact that there hasn't been a crafting system this comprehensive since SWG is enough to break it away from being a clone.

  • wowclonezwowclonez Scripps Ranch, CAPosts: 74Member
    lol at threads like this "stop expressing you opinion". fanboism cannot stop people from not liking a game. it just isn't for everyone, we will have to except that. nothing wrong with not liking the game or being disappointed in specific things, no game is perfect.
  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rohn

    I don't recall asking for yet another "more of the same" game.  We've had literally dozens and dozens of them come out over the last decade.  Enough is enough.

    In fact, what most people, myself included, have been asking for is something different - an actual change in the genre.

    There's no sense in leaving a standard themepark, in which a player may have years of equity built, just to play the same game with a different title.  And that's what  FFXIV is, a standard, run-of-the-mill themepark.  I've already played it, a dozen times over.

    Actually, I don't think you have, because I haven't.  Not since FFXI.  I've played and enjoyed WoW, Lotro, Rift, GW2, EQ2 and a few others but NONE of them gave me the layered content and immersion and awesome quality of gaming FFXI gave me until now.  FFXIV:ARR has managed to bring back that which I love about the genre. 

    Sure, many gamers want something different or new, and that's fine, those games are coming(EQN).  But don't think that you are a majority opinion, as I am not a majority opinion.  We are just looking for something different in our MMOs.  I'll be happy playing FFXIV:ARR while you go be hopefully happy with EQN and other games attempting to be "different".

    image
  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member
     Perhaps I didn't get far enough into the game, only being a level 17 Lancer, but I never once felt like I was playing anything that resembled WoW. Has WoW changed that much, or was my experience completely different from others? /shrug .. it was Final Fantasy to me.
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    The game has many good points, unfortunately the combat is a deal breaker for me. It isn't even just because it is tab target hotbar... EQ2, WoW and even Rift manage to have more interesting combat. But all the best to those who have found a new home.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,464Member Uncommon

    I agree OP this is what everyone was crying for.I personally did not.I cannot be overly critical because i still have FFXI to play.

    However ever since i started in FFXI waaaaaay  back when,i was dreaming of a newer spiffy version.They had already announced a new game engine and a possible new game very early on,so it was a long wait for me.

    The problem with every single developer in this day n age is MONEY.There is far too much risk for all developers,so they are very hesitant to go the whole nine yards,hence rushed games or shallow games.

    Devs have no choice if they want to stay in business,buckle up and try to work the PR and advertising teams.That is why i commend Sqaure Enix,you really don't hear a lot of BS from them.They give you videos to watch and go to events and show you their work,not often if ever do you hear them bragging or telling YOU that the game is the best thing since sliced cheese.

    The way Square works is they show you what they have and let you decide,they don't put words in your mouth or feed you crap about how they made the game for you and everything you do is game changing.They; keep everything honest and on the up n up and i really appreciate that.

    A bad PR team/developer can really make a game a lot worse,i HATE bragging of any kind.I don't think there is any surprise at all that Square is the ONLY developer with no hidden strings attached,NO CASH shop,a straight up fee,you know what you get each time you login.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • time007time007 Houston, TXPosts: 494Member Uncommon

    I find it funny the OP is indirectly making fun of the game by calling it a wow clone (again, indirectly) so I'm sure he could re-post if needed and say "I never actually said it was a wow-clone". another poster said never for one second did he feel like he was in wow.  And I feel the same way.  I didn't feel for a second I was in wow.  wow is a cartoon.  FFXIV really stuck to its rpg roots in its look and gameplay.  I mean its basically final fantasy and its online.  that's fine enough for me.  Im willing to sub for this if the quality of the content stays good which I think it will. 

     

    I think we got a ton of complaints about gameplay when free opened up, and now those comments have sort of died down and those threads are being archived.  I think the gameplay is great and I look forwarding to seeing you guys in-game.

     

    This game isn't a wow clone, its a final fantasy clone.  final fantasy is older than wow.  warhammer is older than wow. wow races, classes, and lore and the overall look of wow ganked everything from the warhammer universe.  when I first played wow, I thought I was in a warhammer fantasy novel.

    image
  • ShelvinarrShelvinarr Albuquerque, NMPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by time007

    I find it funny the OP is indirectly making fun of the game by calling it a wow clone (again, indirectly) so I'm sure he could re-post if needed and say "I never actually said it was a wow-clone". another poster said never for one second did he feel like he was in wow.  And I feel the same way.  I didn't feel for a second I was in wow.  wow is a cartoon.  FFXIV really stuck to its rpg roots in its look and gameplay.  I mean its basically final fantasy and its online.  that's fine enough for me.  Im willing to sub for this if the quality of the content stays good which I think it will. 

     

    I think we got a ton of complaints about gameplay when free opened up, and now those comments have sort of died down and those threads are being archived.  I think the gameplay is great and I look forwarding to seeing you guys in-game.

     

    This game isn't a wow clone, its a final fantasy clone.  final fantasy is older than wow.  warhammer is older than wow. wow races, classes, and lore and the overall look of wow ganked everything from the warhammer universe.  when I first played wow, I thought I was in a warhammer fantasy novel.

     

    QFT. You hit the nail on the head. People are always calling new MMOs "WoW-Clones", and a good majority are. However, FFXIV has a lot of innovations that do not make it a " run of the mill themepark" or "WoW-clone". Chaining from FFXI is present in FFXIV, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe WoW has Chaining when you're killing mobs.

    Second, WoW crafting was pointless. In FFXIV I feel like the gear I craft is actually worth something, especially since I can control the quality of it (with skills). I was able to craft gear that I couldn't get via questing/grinding, which made it better than WoW in the first place. 

    Third, you only need ONE character and you can be ANY class/job. You can even pick up all the crafting, unless I'm mistaken. I don't need to re-roll a million different characters and figure out which one I like best, I can just go unlock a different class, if I level it to twenty and decide I don't like it, no harm no foul I just switch back to my original class or move on to another and I won't even have to log out to do so.

    In the end, people will play what they like. I like FFXIV ARR, it's way better than 1.0 and WoW IMHO. 

  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Posts: 803Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shelvinarr
    Originally posted by time007

    I find it funny the OP is indirectly making fun of the game by calling it a wow clone (again, indirectly) so I'm sure he could re-post if needed and say "I never actually said it was a wow-clone". another poster said never for one second did he feel like he was in wow.  And I feel the same way.  I didn't feel for a second I was in wow.  wow is a cartoon.  FFXIV really stuck to its rpg roots in its look and gameplay.  I mean its basically final fantasy and its online.  that's fine enough for me.  Im willing to sub for this if the quality of the content stays good which I think it will. 

     

    I think we got a ton of complaints about gameplay when free opened up, and now those comments have sort of died down and those threads are being archived.  I think the gameplay is great and I look forwarding to seeing you guys in-game.

     

    This game isn't a wow clone, its a final fantasy clone.  final fantasy is older than wow.  warhammer is older than wow. wow races, classes, and lore and the overall look of wow ganked everything from the warhammer universe.  when I first played wow, I thought I was in a warhammer fantasy novel.

     

    QFT. You hit the nail on the head. People are always calling new MMOs "WoW-Clones", and a good majority are. However, FFXIV has a lot of innovations that do not make it a " run of the mill themepark" or "WoW-clone". Chaining from FFXI is present in FFXIV, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe WoW has Chaining when you're killing mobs.

    Second, WoW crafting was pointless. In FFXIV I feel like the gear I craft is actually worth something, especially since I can control the quality of it (with skills). I was able to craft gear that I couldn't get via questing/grinding, which made it better than WoW in the first place. 

    Third, you only need ONE character and you can be ANY class/job. You can even pick up all the crafting, unless I'm mistaken. I don't need to re-roll a million different characters and figure out which one I like best, I can just go unlock a different class, if I level it to twenty and decide I don't like it, no harm no foul I just switch back to my original class or move on to another and I won't even have to log out to do so.

    In the end, people will play what they like. I like FFXIV ARR, it's way better than 1.0 and WoW IMHO. 

    Your post creates a few questions for me. First what is chaining? Second you said you crafted gear and it was better then what you found questing / grinding. My first experience with crafting was alchemy and the potions where no better then the drops I were getting. This tuned me off right there and I didn't play the rest of Sunday.  I'm sorta kicking myself now for I could have at least saw what was beyond level 15 where everyone keeps saying the game takes off.

  • ShelvinarrShelvinarr Albuquerque, NMPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Zeppelin4
    Originally posted by Shelvinarr
    Originally posted by time007

    I find it funny the OP is indirectly making fun of the game by calling it a wow clone (again, indirectly) so I'm sure he could re-post if needed and say "I never actually said it was a wow-clone". another poster said never for one second did he feel like he was in wow.  And I feel the same way.  I didn't feel for a second I was in wow.  wow is a cartoon.  FFXIV really stuck to its rpg roots in its look and gameplay.  I mean its basically final fantasy and its online.  that's fine enough for me.  Im willing to sub for this if the quality of the content stays good which I think it will. 

     

    I think we got a ton of complaints about gameplay when free opened up, and now those comments have sort of died down and those threads are being archived.  I think the gameplay is great and I look forwarding to seeing you guys in-game.

     

    This game isn't a wow clone, its a final fantasy clone.  final fantasy is older than wow.  warhammer is older than wow. wow races, classes, and lore and the overall look of wow ganked everything from the warhammer universe.  when I first played wow, I thought I was in a warhammer fantasy novel.

     

    QFT. You hit the nail on the head. People are always calling new MMOs "WoW-Clones", and a good majority are. However, FFXIV has a lot of innovations that do not make it a " run of the mill themepark" or "WoW-clone". Chaining from FFXI is present in FFXIV, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe WoW has Chaining when you're killing mobs.

    Second, WoW crafting was pointless. In FFXIV I feel like the gear I craft is actually worth something, especially since I can control the quality of it (with skills). I was able to craft gear that I couldn't get via questing/grinding, which made it better than WoW in the first place. 

    Third, you only need ONE character and you can be ANY class/job. You can even pick up all the crafting, unless I'm mistaken. I don't need to re-roll a million different characters and figure out which one I like best, I can just go unlock a different class, if I level it to twenty and decide I don't like it, no harm no foul I just switch back to my original class or move on to another and I won't even have to log out to do so.

    In the end, people will play what they like. I like FFXIV ARR, it's way better than 1.0 and WoW IMHO. 

    Your post creates a few questions for me. First what is chaining? Second you said you crafted gear and it was better then what you found questing / grinding. My first experience with crafting was alchemy and the potions where no better then the drops I were getting. This tuned me off right there and I didn't play the rest of Sunday.  I'm sorta kicking myself now for I could have at least saw what was beyond level 15 where everyone keeps saying the game takes off.

    Chaining is when you kill a mob equal to your level or higher and if you kill another mob of the same level or higher you get an XP bonus, the timer is 60-80 seconds if I recall correctly. Also, I was using Goldsmithing, I was able to craft a better scepter than what I was using as well as better jewelry. At first at the lower levels it wasn't as good, but once you get higher and are able to increase the quality of the items, it's loads better than the cut and dry standard gear you find/receive as quest rewards.

  • PulsarManPulsarMan Tampa, FLPosts: 289Member
    I am quite pleased with how ARR has turned out. It's pretty damned good. I'm an optimist, so I assume it will only get better. :D 
  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Zeppelin4
    Your post creates a few questions for me. First what is chaining? Second you said you crafted gear and it was better then what you found questing / grinding. My first experience with crafting was alchemy and the potions where no better then the drops I were getting. This tuned me off right there and I didn't play the rest of Sunday.  I'm sorta kicking myself now for I could have at least saw what was beyond level 15 where everyone keeps saying the game takes off.

    Chaining is when you kill a mob fast enough, it triggers a timer that counts down. Each mob you kill during the timer adds another chain. Each chain increases xp. I think they did this because after you level up a few classes, the rest of the classes are basically grinding mobs for xp. Chains in a group give a lot of xp especially when fate hunting. It reminds me of spin groups on dantooine in SWG which were a lot of fun.

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