Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Do you miss corpse runs?

167891012»

Comments

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Space and location adds to depth if it is in relation to a mechanics like combat. Hence, even in instanced game, you have a 3D representation of a dungeon. In chess, the co-ordinates are spatial elements for tactical combat.

    However, an abundance of space with no activity but traveling inside only adds to the boredom. In fact, it is a loss in options, at least temporarily, if you locked a player into a space with nothing but movement. There are more options if you pop up a menu and ask him if he want to go to point A, B or C.

    Note that this is completely different than in a combat situation where distance is a tactical factor.

    Not really. You're pretending that all choices of where to go are moot because one has to move to get there and then ignoring that it gives you much more freedom to choose where to go than clicking on an icon ever will.

     

    That time you drag others out of combat is an important factor too. This is exactly why I mentioned MOBAs, because you have plenty of times where players are forced to shift between lanes to address strong harassment form an opponent who very likely will bail and change lanes solely for the purpose of leading even a single strong player on a wild goose chase long enough for others to suffer for their absence.

     

    This is also you repeating the same fallback notion we've clarified multiple times previously, about you, axe, etc rallying against the notion of 'no activity but travel'. Which seems ironic that parkour is enough for you to consider it interesting.

     

    Fact is that regardless of if you as an individual can or can't tolerate to take a minute of your time to get somewhere, travel is a mechanic that grants options. A design choice that adds a very different feel and play to the game.

     

    Hence the constant popularity of the open world games like Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row, or Elder Scrolls and to a degree Borderlands.

     

    A notion you find present in titles ranging from RTS games like Starcraft 1/2 and Age of Empires, into MOBAS like LoL and Smite, especially in survival and craft games like Minecraft and Don't Starve. Important to the pacing of life cycle in simulations such as Sims or Spore and Flight, and into the genre we all know and love the RPG with Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. Not forgetting our perpetual punching bag the MMO market with WoW and Everquest or Planetside and Secret World.

     

    If you notice, your last post is perhaps the most honest. Rather than try and argue the merits of the system, you simply noted that 'for you' it wasn't fun.

     

    What stands for one on the pretense of fun does not stand universal. That should be evidenced well enough from the many posts you've already responded to, especially the one you last quoted being pretty clear on that matter.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Not really. You're pretending that all choices of where to go are moot because one has to move to get there and then ignoring that it gives you much more freedom to choose where to go than clicking on an icon ever will.

    What pretending? It is true for so many slow travel mechanics.

    EQ boat ride. What choice? You get on. You wait 20 min. There is no freedom. An instant menu option is better.

    Slow flying to a dungeon. Now you can have the option of flying straight, or take a LONGER detour. Uninteresting and trivial option in this case. Why would i want such option in exchange of wasting my time? A simple click is better.

    Slow travel does not always give more options, and even when it does so, the options are not always interesting and fun.

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    Corpse runs? Kinda. They were sometimes too unforgiving.

     

    Serious death penalties, like DAoC's though? Absolutely. There needs to be risk for the reward to be worth it. It's like, the golden rule of game design.

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,751Member Uncommon

    When you have one destination and the means to get there is not something you control, that's what you just griped against in both EQ and WoW.

     

    As for your other comment, well that's natural that not every moment has grand opportunity. The difference is that there is at least opportunity where otherwise there would have been nothing.

     

    EDIT: And I just gave a rundown of a couple games from multiple genres that disagree with the notion. Granted you are still qualifying by singling out an extreme condition that is not the issue itself and making an issue out of it.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • ZydariZydari Fort Worth, TXPosts: 84Member
    I do miss it but not for the reason some may. I miss the way it made you play. You had to be more cautious and consider the consequences of your actions. You had to be more social too because when you did die you might need help getting your corpse back. The corpse run itself though I think is dead in modern MMO's.

    Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.

    Thomas Jefferson

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There needs to be risk for the reward to be worth it. It's like, the golden rule of game design.

    No.  There needs to be a skill challenge for the reward to be worth it.  If all you have is risk than all you have is gambling and you might as well just go to a casino.  In RL challenging things tend to be risky so people tend to confuse the two things.   I consider gambling to be the refuge of those who lack the skill or inclination to tackle challenges.  As such harsh death penalties tend to be Lowest Common Denominator features.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I do miss them.

    And the real corpse runs from EQ, not the watered down invulnerable ones from WoW

     

    I miss them because:

    -like you said, it creates fear.....when you're fighting a mob you need to feel fear, you can not feel fear if there's nothing to lose, XP loss and corpse runs both tap into that fear

    -it creates downtime, which helps the community

    -it creates community like you said, you needed that cleric and necro in the case you lost your corpse, you needed that druid for sow and you needed an invis or IVU sometimes

    If you think EQ1 had " real " corpse runs then you must not have played the games that came before it where if you died mobs would roll your corpse and take your stuff. Often you had to clear an entire dungeon just to get all of your stuff back. EQ1 was cake compared to those games.

    On topic.. Yes and No.

    image

  • OfficialFlowOfficialFlow HelsinkiPosts: 111Member

    Every form of death penalty that serves as an Obstacle to fun and meaningfull gameplay is wrong!!

    Corpse runs are not fun! or meaningfull therefore they are obstacles

    They are just a time sink that frustrates players

    image

    pardon me.. everyone has their own opinion this is mine deal with it i do not miss corpse runs in MMORPGs

     

  • KaledrenKaledren , NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by OfficialFlow

    Every form of death penalty that serves as an Obstacle to fun and meaningfull gameplay is wrong!!

    Corpse runs are not fun! or meaningfull therefore they are obstacles

    They are just a time sink that frustrates players

    image

    pardon me.. everyone has their own opinion this is mine deal with it i do not miss corpse runs in MMORPGs

     

    And what MMORPG's have you played with corpse runs? Just curious as you are 21 (According to your profile).

    Timesinks that frustrate bad layers mostly. If you take heed of your surroundings and play your class well...corpse runs can largely be avoided. But again...not everyone views them as frustrating time sinks...but rather another level of challenge when it comes to recovering that corpse and gear.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There needs to be risk for the reward to be worth it. It's like, the golden rule of game design.

    No.  There needs to be a skill challenge for the reward to be worth it.  If all you have is risk than all you have is gambling

    Skill and risk and the assessment of your own abilities is what goes into the thrill that pulls you into the game world. You THINK you can handle that level 11 ogre. You're taking a risk by attacking it instead of the level 9 boar, but the pay off is you get more XP and better loot. You stay on edge and engaged, and think things through. You are IN this world.

    When there is no risk, you just absent mindedly attack, and if you die, oh well. Memory already forgotten. No stakes. No immersion.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by OfficialFlow

    Every form of death penalty that serves as an Obstacle to fun and meaningfull gameplay is wrong!!

    So we should log in at level cap and one shot ever mob on the map? If obstacles aren't fun...

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There needs to be risk for the reward to be worth it. It's like, the golden rule of game design.

    No.  There needs to be a skill challenge for the reward to be worth it.  If all you have is risk than all you have is gambling

    Skill and risk and the assessment of your own abilities is what goes into the thrill that pulls you into the game world. You THINK you can handle that level 11 ogre. You're taking a risk by attacking it instead of the level 9 boar, but the pay off is you get more XP and better loot. You stay on edge and engaged, and think things through. You are IN this world.

    When there is no risk, you just absent mindedly attack, and if you die, oh well. Memory already forgotten. No stakes. No immersion.

    I agree.. IMO there has to be risk for the reward to be meaningful.. Sure I can charge into Orc camp 1 with my johnson hanging out and kill 1 mob, then die and repeat that 5 more times and the camp is cleared.... For me that isn't rewarding, that is just boring and silly.. 

  • uggeh12uggeh12 Valencia, CAPosts: 44Member
    I don't miss corpse runs but, I do miss having some sort of death penalty.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    When there is no risk, you just absent mindedly attack, and if you die, oh well. Memory already forgotten. No stakes. No immersion.

    Did you actually play any raiding games, or just boss fights?

    If you just absent mindedly attack, you never kill the boss, and never get the purple loot. There is a stake. The stake is the purple loot. Not the death penalty.

    A reward (that can be withhold) is a much better stake than a penalty.

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member

    I found corpse runs novel back when I first experienced them in UO way back when.  Keeping in mind I had way more time to devote to a game.  Nowadays I have experience so many games and death penalty systems that I no longer enjoy the corpse run concept.  I would rather a game innovate with a new way of punishing player death instead of using a system from the past.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon

    I found corpse runs about as pleasant as a root canal with no novocain.

     

    So yeah...good riddance to it.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by kellian1

    I found corpse runs about as pleasant as a root canal with no novocain.

     

    So yeah...good riddance to it.

    And the good news is .. it is not likely to come back, not in most games anyway.

167891012»
Sign In or Register to comment.