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[Column] General: Blaming “The Kids” Is So Immature

13

Comments

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    I never blamed the "kids" I am annoyed at people with the must "have it now" notion. Plenty of people in the older generation who have these attitudes too.
     
  • scrittyscritty WorcesterPosts: 89Member

    Average age of gamers goes up all the time it's over 35 now. Blizzard puts average wow player age as 33 thats PLAYER not ACCOUNT PAYER. kiddies? nah. Busy adults with no time and no patience to invest in complex play mechanics..that's the gameplay simplification.

     

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by Novusod

    Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.

     

    As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.

     

    Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.

     

    I see he is generalizing my generation?? I am 21 now i did play WoW just like he may have played a game at a young age or did he forget or start when he was 30 so games are for the older now? this comment is just very shallow. I am attending college, I have networks of friends, and if i didn't say yes ma'am i was slapped. He is the one that didnt learn manners. Sorry your time in WoW was horrid it was one of the best for me.

    Not making generalizations here but just pointing out what should be an obvious truth. I stated repeatedly the parents are to blame not the "kids." Every time you see someone loot steal, mouth off in public chat, be rude in party, or otherwise be obnoxious that is the result of bad parents and terrible upbringing. Your reply even proves my thesis is correct. You had good parents who slapped you when you talked back so obviously this doesn't apply to you. But it proves the point good parents produce good kids while bad parents produce rude spoiled brats.

     

    Old saying apple don't fall far from the tree.

  • OniDaimyo77OniDaimyo77 Lincoln, CAPosts: 30Member
    Meh disagree. A lof ot fhe "kids" or 20 somethings are ruder and more immature than the older players I've encountered and the annonymity of the internet just makes it worse. It is indeed their fault much of the time.
  • NightfyreNightfyre Pandora, OHPosts: 173Member Uncommon

    Argh can't ignore work anymore... pick from this what you want.  Wanted to say more, and well organize it better.

     

    I was playing the games of Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest and Ultima Online.  These games were tough in their own ways.  Grouping was a common thing for them, as monsters were tough to try and solo alone.  You could with them, but it wasn't a common thing like the games after them became.  Everquest you could, but it was time consuming.  Ultima Online was a solo game; it was just fun and safer (sometimes) with more people especially with the Open PvP.  PvP in UO and DAoC was the best thing of those two games.  Star Wars Galaxies

    I will not agree that it's the parents fault for how the games are now.  People from the previous games have aged, some matured, some stayed the same, and yes some even went the opposite way.  Though they are not the ones who wanted a lazier style game, it's the new generation that is brought in with each new game.  And you can see how the toughness from the previous games have dropped in the current ones.  WoW brought in a lot of them, it had the advantage with the lore it developed from the RTS. 

    Vanilla WoW was tough, you had to work and coordinate with everyone to get them done.  As it progressed and brought in new people the game changed even worse then it had.  Nerfs became more commonplace, they had to buff or debuff raids so guilds could or even bother to attempt them.  PvP went downhill, the world PvP was fun they took that from us and gave us in instanced PvP and dumbed that down, or Faceroll.  WoW took socializing away by making the world map almost completely soloable, you didn't need a group to get to the max level, heck I leveled to max as a holy Priest.  They held your hand the whole way, and even in the dungeons by

  • ShrillyShrilly Citra, FLPosts: 376Member Common
    Originally posted by Novusod
    Originally posted by Shrilly
    Originally posted by Novusod

    Blaming the "kids" is only a tiny part of the problem. This has nothing to do with easy mode or cartoony graphics. It is the anti-social nature of the WoW kiddies that is the real problem. If you want to blame someone then blame the parents for the bad behavior seen in WoW. Just like the disruptive kids in school it wasn't the child's fault. It was always the parents. Just ask any teacher. As far as the internet communities goes 12 year olds should NOT have unlimited access or a subscription to WoW. Guess who pays for that internet and WoW sub. It is not the kid, it is the parents who pay the bills yet the parents shirk all responsibility when it comes to supervising that child. First it was TV as babysitter now it is the computer and MMOs games. MMOs were not designed to babysit and raise a bunch of brats. That is the parents job and ultimately the parents fault when their kids turn into antisocial jerks.

     

    As time passed fast forward from 2004 to 2013 those 12 year old WoW kiddies are now 20 something adults who: never grew up, never learned responsibility, never learned respect, never learned to properly interact with others in a civilized manner. It was never the game's job to teach people these values. This is really nothing anyone can do about this as this is just a reflection in the overall decay of society.

     

    Social engineering is not in a game developers' job description. We are here to make games that are fun and enjoyable to our target audience.

     

    I see he is generalizing my generation?? I am 21 now i did play WoW just like he may have played a game at a young age or did he forget or start when he was 30 so games are for the older now? this comment is just very shallow. I am attending college, I have networks of friends, and if i didn't say yes ma'am i was slapped. He is the one that didnt learn manners. Sorry your time in WoW was horrid it was one of the best for me.

    Not making generalizations here but just pointing out what should be an obvious truth. I stated repeatedly the parents are to blame not the "kids." Every time you see someone loot steal, mouth off in public chat, be rude in party, or otherwise be obnoxious that is the result of bad parents and terrible upbringing. Your reply even proves my thesis is correct. You had good parents who slapped you when you talked back so obviously this doesn't apply to you. But it proves the point good parents produce good kids while bad parents produce rude spoiled brats.

     

    Old saying apple don't fall far from the tree.

    I agree and what i am pointing out is i am sure it all didnt start during one generation. I am sure every generation of mmo has seen its ragers, childish, garbage speaking, unparented types.

  • VocadiVocadi SH, MIPosts: 205Member

    It is never okay to resort to derogatory  negative name calling. Its true that cartoon movies can portray dark and sometimes adult content, however you cannot compare and draw parallel between two very different forms of media.

    MMO's are interactive, they require participation, decision making and time. A 1 hour Pixar movie is just that, a one dimensional experience that lasts until the rolling credits.

    As an old school gamer I like cartoon movies, I think they are entertaining. But when you add those similar graphics in an up and coming big budget MMO title, my alarm bells sound. Is the choice of  overly stylized graphics a precursor to the depth of game content? I can take simplified bobble head avatars all day if it means I am rewarded with a deep, immersive and challenging gaming experience. But often the two dont mix well. There are not alot of current examples of challenging and immersive gameplay coupled with overly stylized graphics.

    I only speak for myself when I say I hope the style of graphics arent indicative of the type of gameplay.

    image
  • freakkyfreakky Key Largo, FLPosts: 66Member Uncommon

    "It's unhelpful at best and immature at worst since it's nothing more than an ego boost gained by putting others down."

    So are you not doing the same by saying those people are immature?

    I understand your point and agree some what. I also understand how they feel and resepect both. Good luck in trying change reality.

     

  • LungingWolfLungingWolf Valdosta, GAPosts: 73Member
    I am not sure if I see any edifying point to Ms. Gonzalez’s column. While I can understand the viewpoint behind her column, it falls short of addressing the real underlying problem behind the “blame the kids” phenomenon.

    The problem is a problem of customer service. Specifically, the problem is that most bigger companies, for their respective reasons, feel the need to reach the biggest audience as possible or even a universal audience. To do this, they use tactics like appealing to the lowest common denominator of difficulty tolerance, using “one size fits all” approaches, making their games variety games, and/or listening to whatever demands the people on their forums make. So, when people who demand the significant nerfing of enemies, the utmost convenience, absolute equality among players, and other such polarizing things complain, these companies feel the need to accommodate them in order to perfect their games' appeal to the masses.

    In turn, player is pit against player. People with different playstyles, different interests, and/or different needs try to fight over how the said games should be run and getting the said companies’ ears. Some succeed, others fail. And, as this happens, the worst in MMO players usually comes out. And it negatively affects the whole MMO community.

    Seriously, who is willing to pay a subscription fee for an MMO experience like this? Not many people. No wonder MMO players in general are refusing to pay subscription fees anymore—they are unsatisfied customers who see very little value in what is offered by these companies.

    The only true solution to this problem is to have developers in general reorient their business models around targeting certain niche playstyles, interests, and needs. In doing this, the multifaceted communities of MMOs could be untangled into homogenous communities which are more unified and productive, both on the player side and the company side. Then the details of how each MMO should work should be much easier and fun to hammer out among the relevant parties.
     

    Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).

    Keeping an eye on: www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).

  • AlexvanoAlexvano Elgin, ILPosts: 13Member
    Its not kids that are the problem, its the lazy casual gamer that games are being geared towards. They can't be bothered to pay for it and they want to feel as empowered as someone who works hard at learning a game, while they put in zero effort. They died or lost? Definitely not their fault, the game is just bad.

    The problem all started with laziness of the gaming public. People say they don't want a game that is a second job, then go on to spend thousands of hours on no risk, hand you everything on a silver platter crap. If players have to learn a deep complex game that ultimately is limitless in what you can accomplish, many new gamers can't be bothered and boot up WoW. Games that take time to learn and have complexity don't get the dumb downed masses who don't want to be challenged and can't pay a subscription. They want something they can play with less than 10 buttons and pats them on the head for showing up. The sand boxes of Ultima Online and Eve were amazing because of everything you could do in them. Now adays people cry for more content because the simplistic junk in these games have no depth, require no skill or learning, and if it can't be completed with a guide easily in 30 minutes to an hour, don't worry one is coming! Sandboxes are great because you can have amazing challenges like dragons that seem more alive because they will roast your nuts if you in your noobishness walk up to one. Can they be killed? Sure, but in the sand box world you may have to hone your skills, come up with a plan, or heavens forbid socialize. Will it happen on day one, nope. Its laziness that ruined the genre, the dumbing down for the masses. You want quality games that last, make risk, reward, and effort match up, and put more options in, not take them out because the lazy herd doesn't understand right away.

    Take the same dragon, in guild wars 2 they followed the guide and the zerg of noobs won out and the dragon died and no one faced any risk of failure yay! I mean its in the script that the dragon should die right? Well in a sandbox odds are you may lose, you may win. Is there a better way to try and conquer it? Probably but why try, its too hard, its just bad game mechanics, its not their fault. The problem with the genre isn't the kids, that's stereo typing based on age. Kids can be very smart. Its the lazy gamer that is to blame.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,766Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JRRNeiklot
    I might have read this....had it not been written by a kid.

    nice defensive answer. But its obvious you already read it. Also, Being older than others doesnt automatically make the rest "kids". Typical answer from old folks. Look at the definition of Kid first so you have a better answer next time that actually fits your age, sir.

    image
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by krondin
    Until there is true accountability for players of these games, fingers will point, names will be called, and many will be referred  to as " Child like mentality ".

    They're games.  I think they're all pretty child like in mentality.  Once again, the most popular games in history have usually had wide-spread appeal, they weren't usually "serious".  This seems to go double for MMOs.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by OniDaimyo77
    Meh disagree. A lof ot fhe "kids" or 20 somethings are ruder and more immature than the older players I've encountered and the annonymity of the internet just makes it worse. It is indeed their fault much of the time.
     

    Well unfortunately my experience has been almost the exact opposite.  Playing WoW for almost half a decade, the worst behavior I encountered was from adults almost without fail, and I knew they were adults because of vent, etc.  To me, it makes it even worse because they're the ones who seem to have it out for "kids" even though they act like kids SHOULD act.

    It reminds me of the Wildstar sub threads, where the same people who are saying it will keep brats out are often saying something like "Nah nah F2P'ers suck it, LOL" (pp) in the same breath.  Does anyone want to play with a jerk, regardless of their age?  I don't.
  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    a little damage control for disneyquest huh..?
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alexvano
    Its not kids that are the problem, its the lazy casual gamer that games are being geared towards. They can't be bothered to pay for it and they want to feel as empowered as someone who works hard at learning a game, while they put in zero effort. They died or lost? Definitely not their fault, the game is just bad.

    The problem all started with laziness of the gaming public. People say they don't want a game that is a second job, then go on to spend thousands of hours on no risk, hand you everything on a silver platter crap. If players have to learn a deep complex game that ultimately is limitless in what you can accomplish, many new gamers can't be bothered and boot up WoW. Games that take time to learn and have complexity don't get the dumb downed masses who don't want to be challenged and can't pay a subscription. They want something they can play with less than 10 buttons and pats them on the head for showing up. The sand boxes of Ultima Online and Eve were amazing because of everything you could do in them. Now adays people cry for more content because the simplistic junk in these games have no depth, require no skill or learning, and if it can't be completed with a guide easily in 30 minutes to an hour, don't worry one is coming! Sandboxes are great because you can have amazing challenges like dragons that seem more alive because they will roast your nuts if you in your noobishness walk up to one. Can they be killed? Sure, but in the sand box world you may have to hone your skills, come up with a plan, or heavens forbid socialize. Will it happen on day one, nope. Its laziness that ruined the genre, the dumbing down for the masses. You want quality games that last, make risk, reward, and effort match up, and put more options in, not take them out because the lazy herd doesn't understand right away.

    Take the same dragon, in guild wars 2 they followed the guide and the zerg of noobs won out and the dragon died and no one faced any risk of failure yay! I mean its in the script that the dragon should die right? Well in a sandbox odds are you may lose, you may win. Is there a better way to try and conquer it? Probably but why try, its too hard, its just bad game mechanics, its not their fault. The problem with the genre isn't the kids, that's stereo typing based on age. Kids can be very smart. Its the lazy gamer that is to blame.

    Damn those people who only play games to be entertained and aren't doing so to prove their self-worth. image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VinterkrigVinterkrig BOSTON, MAPosts: 1,672Member
    I blame the kids.... and the women, oh and the carebears...crap, lets not forget the companies.
  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Christina, please rewrite that with some ad hominems and wild exaggerations. I've read through it three times, still haven't found anything to argue with, and it's really pissing me off. ><

    Don't worry, I'll pick it up from here...


    So where the writer fails to account for is that without being able to put down and trash games, the average neighborhood elitist won't have an outlet to feel elite. Without the insistent picking on the most "mainstream" of MMO's, there's absolutely no way for them to separate themselves from the rare mediocre gamer found amongst our communities.

    Despite the lack of credibility behind their arguments, I firmly believe every person has the right to feel elitist by bringing the things that others enjoy down. If the average elitist cannot bring down others to boost their own self-esteem/ego/"sense of credibility", then how else can they feel "elitist"?

  • AlexvanoAlexvano Elgin, ILPosts: 13Member
    Nice trolling the, this isn't about "self-worth" or "elitism," its about taking what was once a deep, fun, and engaging medium, and ruining it.

    MMORPG's went from amazing works of art that had countless hours of engaging entertainment, skill, thought, and fun, and turned it into elmo's paint by numbers for the masses.

    Why are people leaving WoW and each new MMORPG that comes out after a few months of play? Its the same trite crap, that lacks any depth. Once you finished the theme park ride, rode the roller-coaster more than a few times, painted the entire paint by numbers picture they are bored, and demand new content. This keeps them entertained. If it doesn't give them the most "elite" skills, loot, or cookie cutter skills, they never play the old content unless they absolutely have to. Why? Because its nothing more than casual fun with limited depth.

    Kids aren't to blame, lazy gamers are.
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    I had more patience and willingness to learn complicated video game systems when I was a kid. Believe it or not kids have no problem learning things. I have five year old cousins that know more about minecraft than I do. They play it more and they are quick to discover things and its more exciting for them.

    image
  • ReverielleReverielle AustraliPosts: 66Member Uncommon

    Basically what you're talking about is stereotyping. In any context using such a broad-brush approach is largely damaging as well as highly inaccurate. That's not to say certain facets of the community aren't to blame, they're just not the only source of a problem.

     

    In truth significant criticism should be placed in the lap of development companies. It is those that over the last 5-10 years seemingly have tried to 'cash-in' on the mmo market, and turn it from a niche gaming experience into a mainstream one. And quite frankly, there's a lot of evidence out there to support the argument that the majority of these companies don't know what they're doing.  It's a difficult thing to create a true MMO (as opposed to a static-world single-player online game that has some group-content). In their rush to tap into this community they've simply just not taken the necessary time to understand how the medium works. And the results speak for themselves.

  • Elija7Elija7 Versailles, KYPosts: 7Member
    Nice, plain article discussing a problem one group of gamers (who would call themselves mature and intelligent-and they well might be) has. However, their specific problem is generalized when it seems they're targeting all MMO's that either already exist or are coming out. Like Christina said, there are enough choices out there for everyone to find what they're looking for. We also need to realize though that none of us are going to find that "perfect MMO" that has everything we want. There are developers who are both making games for wide audiences and smaller, target audiences alike. Keep your eyes open, find what you like, and stop complaining about what you don't. If you don't like it, don't play it. 
  • AlexvanoAlexvano Elgin, ILPosts: 13Member
    Regrettably the sad truth is that many gamers don't have the game they want. The Themepark crowd has plenty of triple A titles available, all looking to cash in on WoW's right time, right now place, success, while Sandbox players have maybe 1 or 2 choices that are typically either indie developments,single A efforts at best, or EVE (and not everyone likes space simulators or prefer a fantasy setting).

    That is why this comes up frequently, but thankfully with the constant failure of themepark games, sandbox games may be coming into a Renaissance.
  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member


    Originally posted by Alexvano
    Nice trolling the, this isn't about "self-worth" or "elitism," its about taking what was once a deep, fun, and engaging medium, and ruining it.MMORPG's went from amazing works of art that had countless hours of engaging entertainment, skill, thought, and fun, and turned it into elmo's paint by numbers for the masses. Why are people leaving WoW and each new MMORPG that comes out after a few months of play? Its the same trite crap, that lacks any depth. Once you finished the theme park ride, rode the roller-coaster more than a few times, painted the entire paint by numbers picture they are bored, and demand new content. This keeps them entertained. If it doesn't give them the most "elite" skills, loot, or cookie cutter skills, they never play the old content unless they absolutely have to. Why? Because its nothing more than casual fun with limited depth.Kids aren't to blame, lazy gamers are.


    Well, it might come off as trolling and a bit light, but in all honesty, this sense of "elitism", in my opinion, comes into play particularly amongst forum posters. Who's to say you defined whether or not the genre WAS fun before and who allowed you to be the leading authority of declaring the genre as officially "ruined".


    I might agree on some parts where people are harder to retain than ever before, but thats because everyone has varied interests. You honestly think you can retain everyone's attention from day 1 of release, 6 months later? It happens with every game since the game industry has existed, this is nothing new nor restricted to the MMO genre.


    That's just people in general and its a universal fact thats accepted. The majority of people will not stick to a game for a very prolonged period of time, I mean can you even say you have, yourself? Maybe, I can see it, but I'll gladly use myself an example...I definitely have not and I don't want to think I'm the only one that functions this way.


    I think your last opinion on the general population is rather bellicose and IMO, inaccurate. I think many people have different reasons why they would stop playing a game and I doubt its because they don't feel "extremely elite" etc. Most people I know that tend to play these MMO's are casual gamers with the hardcore being a minority of my friends. Those casual gamers tend to stop because other interests come around. Interests come and go especially this day and age but I don't think it should be used to reflect a dying/ruined genre/industry. That's a rather inaccurate statement backed by little to no evidence outside people's personal opinions.

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
    It's funny that games were originaly made for kids, but it turned out that those kids after growing up kept playing games xD It was pretty unexpected and the industry had to adjust to that. I still have the feeling that adults are the guests in ths world, not kids. But they want to take over and take all the fun away from kids, by taking everything that doesn't look serious out of those games. But it is just my opinion.

    Well said. Another poster pointed out it's the 9-5 3 kids and dog people that want the games dumbed down because they have no time for it. Does this mean it's the grown ups that are causing the games to become easier? Oh the irony.

    Have to disagree with you. I have the kids,job,dogs,cats and a wife and I might be lucky to get 10 hours a week in a mmo. I hated raiding even when I was single and had no life. I really don't care about the epeen circle jerk that is raiding. I play to enjoy myself for a couple of hours and relax after dealing with criminals and deadbeats all day. I don't expect the best gear as games cater to raiders and feed them the gear. I just want more options for end game  other than raid treadmill. EQ1 prior Scars of Velious and DAoC prior Trials of Atlantis were great games. I did not have an issue with people progressing faster or doing raids as I felt I could make some progress and enjoy myself at my own pace and group with friends or power level their alts.

  • SmintarSmintar Fayette, MEPosts: 202Member Uncommon
    When EQ came out in March of 99 my daughter hadn't turned 9 yet but she play it and played a chanter named her Palra, nice name to but she could play that Character as good as any Adult and I would simply stop what I was doing and watch her play. I would hear others talk about the KIDS but never did they ever say anything about my daughters gameplay.
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