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Vanguard revisited worth another go ?

2

Comments

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    ...Vanguard was at its best in early beta...


    I am envious! I never got to see what Vanguard was meant to be. Similar thing happened to Pirates of The Burning Sea. Supposedly a marvelous game in beta that was completly transformed by the dumbass "suits" at $OE prior to launch.


    Originally posted by Adamantine
    1. No quest hubs means people will get bored and quit.2. No quest marks means people will get bored and quit.3. I'm basically okay with this suggestion, except its much much much too late now. It would only frustrate new players since they have a longer way to join the old players.4. Less regen means people will have more downtime, get bored and quit.5. Thats an ancient idea that never ever worked well. It also adds zippo to the game. And it obviously wont work well with low population, either.


    People interested in WoW gameplay either didn't try VG or didn't stay long.



    Originally posted by evilastro
    ...If the game had the population to support long levelling times, sure go for gold, but that ship has sailed.


    Agreed. I suggest a new server with this ruleset; not modifying existing servers.



    Originally posted by Benedikt
    no, you dont have to talk to npcs - i am not and i am leveling just fine.is it slower them doing the quests? sure it is, but who cares, only those who think game starts at max level, which is imo one of the worst things modern games brought to mmorpg genre


    Find me a server of players like you and I'll be there.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    I still play on and off casually- as Earlier poster says the game is great for exploring, feels like a ral world.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.

    ^this.

     

    i miss my virtual worlds. it seems the only ones i find anymore are in the single player rpg's.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    I agree that the landscape was beautiful and vast. But, look at EQ1. Practically anywhere you go, there is an npc or mob within sight. In many places of EQ1, NPC interactions occurred that you could witness. Orcs fighting mummies in the desert; hill giants fighting the druids at the druid ring in the commons, etc. Hang around at inns in Freeport or Qeynos and you can spend several hours listening to the npc's interact. How many npcs were there at the inns of Neriak; or High Hold Pass, or simply sprinkled throughout Norrath. EQ1 was bursting with life and interaction even before players set foot there.


    The Lore and factions of EQ1 were voluminous. The more I think about it, the more I am amazed SOE/Verant were able to create such a masterpiece.


    Very very little of this was in Vanguard. The world was simply too big for its own good, I think. It seems like they spent 75% of time making the landscape, and 25% of time filling it; and I think that ratio needs to be flipped to make a compelling virtual world.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tindale111
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    not to be rude but if you've tried it for a week 2 dozen times before being bored 24 weeks of play cant be bad :)

    It isn't bad.  In fact I said the game is ok.

    I keep coming back hoping something of it will to make it seem really good, so far that hasn't happened. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • MMOrtyMMOrty Seattle, WAPosts: 13Member

    I have been enjoying it a lot as of the last 3 months.  I found a guild with 20+ people on almost every time I log on. 

    I do sometimes feel trapped by the quests, because that's where the best exp is, but when that happens, I try and find a new place to run around and explore.  It helps me forget about the exp.

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member

    This thread has some BAD ideas in it and I hope no devs ever take them seriously.

     

    Remove AH?  Yeah, because standing around spamming in a tunnel somewhere is fun.  Admittedly not all "advances" in MMORPGs are good but for sure things that remove complete wastes of time like spamming to sell crap are a good thing.  You and the two other people who still want this kind of thing can make a private channel and spam each other to death.  When people spam trivial crap in games that DO have AH/broker I usually put them on ignore.

     

    Redo the game for tablets?  Please...  The increasingly crap problem with MMORPGs is the oversimplification.  Dumbing things down for bottomfeeders is bad enough.  Dumbing things down for consoles on occasion is bad enough.  There would be no game left if you dumb it down for tablets.

     

    The MMORPG genre is not suited for everyone.  People need to grasp this concept.  Especially developers who keep trying to make it the genre for everybody and in doing so keep churning out crappy glorified single player games that cost tons to make and that don't truly succeed without sacrificing all integrity and going with F2P garbage.

     

    The genre needs to go back to its roots of heavy grouping bordering on forced grouping with solo being horrifically inefficient but still available in limited forms since nobody can group 100% of the time, and it needs to return to challenging (but not nut punching) gameplay where rewards are earned, not handed out like candy for doing next to nothing.

     

    If some people can't handle this type of gameplay, so be it.  As with the early days of MMORPGs - just don't play.  Spare those of us that do want this type of gameplay from mediocrity or worse.

     

    If some people only want to solo or want to solo most of the time, great - there's more single player games out there than you can count - go nuts.  MMORPGs aren't for you.

     

    Don't have time to play?  Why would you try to force the issue or buy your way thru a game with cash?  Just do something else...we'll all be fine without you.

     

    MMORPGs *could* cost less to make if they stopped focusing years and millions on single player content and stopped creating sheer fail of PvP implimentations.  Stick to what ONLY the MMORPG genre can provide - progressive group-based PVE and stop trying to be everything to everybody.  Creating solo content that players vaporize in a fraction of the time it takes to create it is grossly inefficient.  Creating group content people can tinker with for days/weeks/months would be a far better use of resources.

     

    A great example is TSW.  Funcom is inept.  TSW has a lot of good stuff to it.  If leveling content must be solo ez-mode, theirs is amongst the best if not the best.  They have some of the most fun instances in all of MMORPGs - little to no trash, fun boss fights, very puggable, nice tiered approach to ramping up difficulty.  They have a solid engame hardmode setup with a slick and fun gear progression system.  But that system is too small/short/easy to finish.

     

    So what does Funcom do?  Do they build on their group content, add more raids, extend the gear progression, anything like that?  Nope.  They dink with PvP stuff in a game with horrifically bad PvP.  They spend 1-2 months at a time making solo content installments that players destroy in 1-4 hours.  Players get thru the solo easy mode, get thru the short endgame in a few weeks, and it's game over.  Nothing else to do.  You wait 2 months for that 1-4 hour blitz of more ez-mode and you play other games in between, or you move on entirely.

     

    This is the way of the whole genre right now.  When you make games that try to be everything to everybody and focus on solo it's pretty hard to focus your time and resources after your game is released.  So it's easy to please some players here and some players there but pretty hard to keep everyone happy.

     

    The genre needs to return to a more single minded focus.  Clearly the solo ez-mode model hasn't been working so well.  Going back to the genres roots COULD be what the genre needs.  Not going even more extreme with glorified single player games like GW2, TESO, and EQNext (appears to be going the same crap way with 8 skills per toon, console influenced design, thinking destructible content is a major pillar of design, and zero mention of group content so far).

     

     

     

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • TorreyHTorreyH Santa Cruz, CAPosts: 42Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

     SoE ruined the game by adding in BoE, reducing death penalty, making it more of a quest grinder, spending resources on trial islands instead of new features, removing EE.

    Well, OK.  But if SOE hadn't taken it over, it would just be gone.  As it stands, its still more like an old-school MMO than almost anything else out there.  And the current dev team really gets it, they are doing good things, apparently with SOE's support and blessing.  Its never going to be quite like what was originally intended, but there's hope for Vanguard. 

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    with all its flaws its certainly worth a revisit. ive been playing Vanguard again lately myself.

     

    i find the "old school" gamers on these forums bitch when they don't have something, bitch when they do have something, and never learn to accept things as they are sometimes. its by no means a perfect game, but it is currently the only game with an old school feel to it left on the market.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon

    hmmm, well, I really like it. sub for 3 months at a time.

    I tend not to do most quests or only take one quest and then see where the wind takes me.

    I also played a lot of Moria in lotro like this.

    Whether It's worht it depends on what you want from the game.

    There is a small but die hard group of players who play it. More players now since it's gone f2p. I don't like some of the decisions they have made regarding starting area quest hubs but I sort of understand the reasoning.

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    hmmm, well, I really like it. sub for 3 months at a time.

    I tend not to do most quests or only take one quest and then see where the wind takes me.

    I also played a lot of Moria in lotro like this.

    Whether It's worht it depends on what you want from the game.

    There is a small but die hard group of players who play it. More players now since it's gone f2p. I don't like some of the decisions they have made regarding starting area quest hubs but I sort of understand the reasoning.

    I've been playing it quite a bit lately myself, and I've been enjoying it also. The combat system isn't quite as eh, captivating as I'd like, but I feel like I'm starting to get used to it now, which is making it more fun. I've been playing the Shaman, and it's one of the more interesting classes I've played in recent memory. Once you get your patron, things really start looking up. It's also perfect for a solo-minded player like myself.

    I'm also with you on the starting hub changes. I too can understand why they made the change, but at the very least, I see no harm in once again offering the racial cities as an option when starting up, possibly with a disclaimer that reads something like, "You may choose the city of your race to begin your adventures, but be forewarned--doing so may significantly limit your chances of playing with others through the early levels of the game, as the population in such areas will likely be considerably smaller than that of the recommended starting areas." It could definitely be shorter and more concise, but you get the point :p. It wouldn't do much for the Gnome players though, as their city was apparently made inaccessible entirely (which was a personal bummer for me, as I normally always play shorter races, almost exclusively.)

    In any case, aside from the drawbacks, I'm increasingly impressed with the game, over all. It's one of the few mmorpgs that I frequent regularly that actually feels like a virtual world, rather than solely a game, and I appreciate that kind of immersion immensely. Here's hoping ESO can continue to carry on the torch in that sense--it's one of the few future titles I'm still keeping an eye on.

    image
  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,474Member Uncommon
    Well ESO is actually an upgraded(technically) version of Vanguard with some modern bells and whistles and an actual IP behind it.

    You'd be surprised in how many points Vanguard flawlessly defeats not only today's MMOs, but those upcoming as well. As for example: how many MMOs have FULLY(well almost :P) functional first person view? Vanguard and...Darkfall? And ESO, but that's not out yet.

    We also have one of the more awesome Druids out there(I REALLY feel in character when playing him{imagine an High Elven Archmage specialised in Ghyran-that's basically Vanguard's Druid!}-that's a RARE feat in MMOs!)... ;)
  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    I have been a big pessimist with VG after leaving the game months after launch. But I just checked out their F2P model and I must say that although I loathe F2P, I like VG's F2P model. If you sub you get more xp, discounts on cash shop purchases, and free cash shop money each month. That's pretty good.

    Plus you can buy flying mounts. I might just reinstall Vanguard, log on to my character, and get me a flying mount. The landscape of Vanguard is amazing, and I always wished I could see it from the air. In an industry of facade games, Vanguards' truly 3D world is a treat that shouldn't be missed.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • allegriaallegria San Francisco, CAPosts: 682Member

    I have played vanguard to death and may be nearing a return once again... I will say, check out the signature dungeons... They are really good:

     

    LIke:

     

    khegors end

    Tomb of Lord Tsang

    Hillsbury Manor

    Trengel Keep

    Vol Tuniel / Thel  ( my fav )

    Darguns Tomb ( just awesome )

    Greystone 

    CIS is good to do once.

     

    Bascially see all the main dungeon content once and you will have some of the best dungeon crawling in any MMO ever.. its that simple with vanguard.  If you are planning to solo quest grind, its not any better than anything else out there so don't bother.

    Group up and see it for what it is supposed to be ;)

  • GaeluianGaeluian Dousman, WIPosts: 83Member Uncommon

    Except that, if you want to enjoy the dungeons, you MUST have a good group. Good luck with that. With populations at very low levels, you'll maybe experience 1 dungeon until you're 50 / 55.

     

    Hard to say it, but, this game needs mercs.  Of course, players will scream foul at the very idea.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

    I agree that the landscape was beautiful and vast. But, look at EQ1. Practically anywhere you go, there is an npc or mob within sight. In many places of EQ1, NPC interactions occurred that you could witness. Orcs fighting mummies in the desert; hill giants fighting the druids at the druid ring in the commons, etc. Hang around at inns in Freeport or Qeynos and you can spend several hours listening to the npc's interact. How many npcs were there at the inns of Neriak; or High Hold Pass, or simply sprinkled throughout Norrath. EQ1 was bursting with life and interaction even before players set foot there.


    The Lore and factions of EQ1 were voluminous. The more I think about it, the more I am amazed SOE/Verant were able to create such a masterpiece.


    Very very little of this was in Vanguard. The world was simply too big for its own good, I think. It seems like they spent 75% of time making the landscape, and 25% of time filling it; and I think that ratio needs to be flipped to make a compelling virtual world.

    I'm going to disagree with you there. At least to my tastes.

    Part of what makes Vanguard compelling to me is that it actually feels like a world. Seeing something happening wherever one looks takes the "real world" contemplative serentiy out of it. Have you ever crossed the U.S.? There are vast areas of "just" nature. You can feel like you can truly escape civilization.

    Heck, one of the things that pisses me off about Lord of the Rings online is that you can hardly cross an area without being waylaid by mobs every 20 or so feet.

    So you want to take your horse and gallop across a plain? nope, sorry, you will get aggro.

     

  • najob75najob75 ZagrebPosts: 40Member

    Shameless bump for Vanguard...

    Best game i have ever played in last 10 years.

  • xiorathxiorath athens, TNPosts: 18Member

    This game is a masterpiece the way it is, nothing needs to be changed about it. It's a classic hardcore MMORPG with incredible original elements, complex crafting system, and a gigantic world to explore with rich lore. It's been such a fun time these past few months I've played. It has one of the best and most respectful, mature MMO communities ive ever been involved in. I haven't seen a community this friendly since original EQ. Vangaurd is a love or hate kind of MMO, and I absolutely LOVE it. I don't feel like I need to rush to end game to see content, its all around me and there is so much to do wherever I choose to go, not to mention the vast amount of exploration and mystery to the world! 

    After all the MMO's I've played in the past, nothing comes close to Vanguard. It reminds me so much of EQoA and EQ1 in all the possible positive ways. This MMO isn't for everyone, but for any old school vets like myself, its most definitely not a let down. It deserves far more attention than it gets. If it had more funding it would draw so many new players.

  • xiorathxiorath athens, TNPosts: 18Member
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    Except that, if you want to enjoy the dungeons, you MUST have a good group. Good luck with that. With populations at very low levels, you'll maybe experience 1 dungeon until you're 50 / 55.

     

    Hard to say it, but, this game needs mercs.  Of course, players will scream foul at the very idea.

    What are you talking about? The population is very much active during US day time hours, even late into the evening. I've done a LOT of different dungeons and not in my 40's yet on both of my characters. Your statement is very inaccurate IMO unless you don't bother trying to find a group what so ever through /LFG

  • EverketEverket MiddenheimPosts: 240Member Uncommon
    I'm eu and if I want to group and dungeon crawl I usually manage to find a group. The thing is many of the high lvl players have alts, and or mentor to join your in these dungeons because there are so many, and maybe they just want to do it again with a different lowbie character. It happens all the time, so even though there are not tens of thousands of players, and like every mmo the pop is a big high lvl pop, they are often ready to join you regardless with alts or mentoring.
  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Vanguard reminds me of old schools mmo's that were full of bugs but you accepted it because the experience was new and grandiose.Today mmo's are over produced and have lost their soul. A good analogy would be vinyl vs CD's.
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Vanguard reminds me of old schools mmo's that were full of bugs but you accepted it because the experience was new and grandiose.Today mmo's are over produced and have lost their soul. A good analogy would be vinyl vs CD's.

     Just started playing and I agree with this.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon

    I am firmly ensconced in LOTRO and GW2 at the moment but reading some of these posts makes we want to dip in to Vanguard again.  Great  mature community and vast world to get lost in , hell yes.  I dont know.   I would be a total noob at this point and doubt Id be able to really find anyone to group with.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common
    Originally posted by WereLlama

    Keep it small, maybe a 500,000$ budget.  

    Thats not even enough for a traditional game(*), let alone a MMO.

     

    (*) Of AAA quality level, of course.

  • grifjgrifj Bellevue, WAPosts: 110Member

    I loved Vanguard when it launched, but left after a few months because there was a lack of server activity.  I prefer group-oriented games rather than games that cater primarily to solo players, so when the community died, the game died for me.

    Just restarted it this past weekend and I'm having a blast so far.  Diplomacy and crafting are great, as is the world design and opportunity for exploration.  My biggest concern, however, is that i looted a copy of these copper chest things that said you need a skeleton key to open.  I figured if I signed up for a paid account that I would be able to open those, but it turns out you actually have to buy skeleton keys with station cash to open them?  Am I understanding this right?  If so, that's going to be enough to get me to quit playing.  I don't want to play any game that requires me to pony up cash to open an item I looted.  I'm fine paying a monthly subscription, but that type of mechanic just reeks of money grubbing.

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