I have always felt that subscriptions are just fine if the game is great. I spend 15 bucks on a lunch at a coffee when I'm at work. Big deal.
If the game is bad? I won't play long enough to pay the first month anyway, so the onus is on them to do well.
On principle alone, I am not a fan of free-to-play games. I think it trains gamers to not value what a developer has put on the table and that games are trivial to make. How many people just download only free games and move from free game to free game without spending a dime? They just assume "Oh, someone else will by all the crap in the cash shop". And to an extent that is true. But eventually, no one will want the crap in the cash shop, but the developer still needs to make money. And by then games will have been completely devalued.
I will admit, I prefer something like GW2's model (pay once, never again), but with a server-based game, it takes a special scenario to make that work.
How many of you that are complaining about this pricing model actually play free-to-play games as they are intended? Playing the game, and buying what you want, that is.
I would wager you don't spend anything on these games, so you aren't really a CUSTOMER at all, are you? And if you do spend money? How much to you spend? What is acceptable to you?
Originally posted by winter Yay a subscription game! I'm in, to heck with EQN and SOE greed FTP model that gouges and nickles and dimes at every corner. For "cartoony" games Wildstar will be my game of choice. Hopefully TESO, or black desert can be my more realistic less cartoony game of choice. (yes I really am that tired of the WoW/freerealms/EQN cloned cartoon style.)
You see, its not semantics though....the post you quoted me on specifically stated titan wouldnt be sub, but didnt confirm B2P or F2P....you then linked me with an article with the headline of "Titan will be F2P", with you actually quoting the headline, but then the article went on to say exactly what u were "back and foruthing" me on, that it prob wont have a sub, but its TBD weather it would be F2P or B2P.....when i called you out for only reading the headline and not the article, now all of a sudden we are arguing about semantics? If that were the case, you woulndt have threw that article at me....
SIGH lol
The only reason this started was because someone said F2P is going away in favor of monthly payments or something like that.I pointed out Blizzard and SOE's approaches as going the f2p route, which when I think of F2P i'm thinking in terms of monthly, not a one time payment or free up front cost. Just to show where my head was at. Not that I expect you to see reason, as it seems your goal is to win; where as I'm not thinking in terms of winning or losing, I'm just trying to explain my mindset.
Anywho yes /sigh....
Let me refresh your memory as to what actually started this:
YOU: You're forgetting about the upcoming big-kids on the block, EQn and Titan, both of which are slated for F2P.
ME: Titan was confirmed as not being sub based, but they mentioned nothing about it being "F2P".
"Blizzard’s Upcoming MMO, Titan, will have a free to play model!"
So lets recap, when the actual article went on to say exactly what I had just said (you know, the thing you wanted to argue with), that it prob wont have a sub, but its up in the air as to weather it would be F2P or B2P.....when i called you out for only reading the headline and not the article, now all of a sudden we are arguing about semantics? If that were the case, you woulndt have threw that article at me in the first place....
WHo said I only read the headline? that was conjecture on your part, you had me set up from there on out, when he said unlikely to have a sub, my mindset said, it's free to play. HEnce my joking response to you," what will they charge skittles?"
Which at that point you should have figured I'm referring to monthly costs. Yet no, you went on to say next "what are you going to say B2P and F2P are the same thing to save face?" another set-up aimed against me explaining myself and winning the internets. To which I tried explaining myself anyway, and here we are... And yes I'm done this time. As this is obviously going no where.
You win....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I wish I could write that I thought they were pushing a good idea forward. However, in today's market it is nearly impossible for any game to justify a subscription on top of the digital / box purchase fee. There are simply too many other free to play options just as good in their own way and in a genre where the typical game lasts the average user two to three months tops before they move on to the next big thing there is simply no incentive to subscribe. It is a deterrent. Being a jaded old bast.. er coot I figure they know this and are cashing in on subscriptions for as long as they feel they can get away with it before having a free to play re-launch somewhere in the foreseeable future.
I agree. For many gamers, most theme park games just no longer warrant a subscription after they quickly churn through the content. The developer will undoubtedly cash in as much as possible in game sales and subscription fees before being forced to go F2P. I would happily pay a subscription for an MMO world I can truly immerse myself in for several months if not years, but theme park MMO models just don't cut it long term.
i'm happy about the subscription model but i think 60 for the box is way too high.
i would have expected 20 for the box and the standard fee, or 30 if you actually go to a bricks and mortar and pick up a physical box.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Despite not thinking that this is really a title that would interest me, I feel strangely compelled by this news to buy a copy and sub for 3 months or so just to show some solidarity for their support of P2P.
Maybe I'll pay it a little closer attention at launch and see if it's actually worthwhile and consider playing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well that settles it. I won't be getting it. I have so many quality games that are F2P that there is no reason to pay a monthly fee. That model is old and dated. The typical "13.99" a month? Really? Why not some random arbitrary number like 5.99? It's not the price that makes me shy away. It's the fact that I don't want to pay anything unless I want some "skins" or mounts or housing stuff or bag slots.
The game looks great and fun and I don't care if the game is a "WoW clone" (I hate that term)
I am kind of happy this is their model choice. It's one less game I have to worry about getting. With Elder Scrolls Online and EQNext on the horizon I can just now follow them.
Peace!
I don't think you will be missed. The "I don't want to pay anything" but will play for free and have fun entitled crowd really is kind of sad. Have fun hoping other people are always willing to pay for your enjoyment.
You see, its not semantics though....the post you quoted me on specifically stated titan wouldnt be sub, but didnt confirm B2P or F2P....you then linked me with an article with the headline of "Titan will be F2P", with you actually quoting the headline, but then the article went on to say exactly what u were "back and foruthing" me on, that it prob wont have a sub, but its TBD weather it would be F2P or B2P.....when i called you out for only reading the headline and not the article, now all of a sudden we are arguing about semantics? If that were the case, you woulndt have threw that article at me....
SIGH lol
The only reason this started was because someone said F2P is going away in favor of monthly payments or something like that.I pointed out Blizzard and SOE's approaches as going the f2p route, which when I think of F2P i'm thinking in terms of monthly, not a one time payment or free up front cost. Just to show where my head was at. Not that I expect you to see reason, as it seems your goal is to win; where as I'm not thinking in terms of winning or losing, I'm just trying to explain my mindset.
Anywho yes /sigh....
Let me refresh your memory as to what actually started this:
YOU: You're forgetting about the upcoming big-kids on the block, EQn and Titan, both of which are slated for F2P.
ME: Titan was confirmed as not being sub based, but they mentioned nothing about it being "F2P".
"Blizzard’s Upcoming MMO, Titan, will have a free to play model!"
So lets recap, when the actual article went on to say exactly what I had just said (you know, the thing you wanted to argue with), that it prob wont have a sub, but its up in the air as to weather it would be F2P or B2P.....when i called you out for only reading the headline and not the article, now all of a sudden we are arguing about semantics? If that were the case, you woulndt have threw that article at me in the first place....
WHo said I only read the headline? that was conjecture on your part, you had me set up from there on out, when he said unlikely to have a sub, my mindset said, it's free to play. HEnce my joking response to you," what will they charge skittles?"
Which at that point you should have figured I'm referring to monthly costs. Yet no, you went on to say next "what are you going to say B2P and F2P are the same thing to save face?" another set-up aimed against me explaining myself and winning the internets. To which I tried explaining myself anyway, and here we are... And yes I'm done this time. As this is obviously going no where.
You win....
Why would you link an article that said exactly what I just did, preceeded by a "you were saying?" You clearly ment for that article to contradict what i said, right?.....and the only way you could have thought that the article went against my post...is by only reading the headline.....see where im going here? (I think u knew all long). I think the point is clear for all by now, lets stop filling up this thread
Ahwell. Was hoping for GW2's model. I don't play sub games anymore. I'll rather spend the money on things I choose, instead of giving the devs an arbitrary amount of cash every month to do as they please.
See you guys when this goes F2P, within the first year I'd wager.
I wish I could write that I thought they were pushing a good idea forward. However, in today's market it is nearly impossible for any game to justify a subscription on top of the digital / box purchase fee. There are simply too many other free to play options just as good in their own way and in a genre where the typical game lasts the average user two to three months tops before they move on to the next big thing there is simply no incentive to subscribe. It is a deterrent. Being a jaded old bast.. er coot I figure they know this and are cashing in on subscriptions for as long as they feel they can get away with it before having a free to play re-launch somewhere in the foreseeable future.
I agree. For many gamers, most theme park games just no longer warrant a subscription after they quickly churn through the content. The developer will undoubtedly cash in as much as possible in game sales and subscription fees before being forced to go F2P. I would happily pay a subscription for an MMO world I can truly immerse myself in for several months if not years, but theme park MMO models just don't cut it long term.
I've read "Theme Park" game thrown around a few times here, so I'm curious--
What that mean exactly to the people using it and how are we able to apply it (I'm assuming negatively) to a game that isn't slated for release until Spring 2014?
Despite not thinking that this is really a title that would interest me, I feel strangely compelled by this news to buy a copy and sub for 3 months or so just to show some solidarity for their support of P2P.
Maybe I'll pay it a little closer attention at launch and see if it's actually worthwhile and consider playing.
Horrible plan, as you're still supporting a product not aimed at you, on top of that 3 months and quit is the typical path of those who have forced many a P2P, into the position of going f2P.
You're only showing a trend that you're interested in the ideas/design/look, yet not enough to stick around for a P2P version of it. Which in turn the dev/pub will blame P2P for the failing just as everyone else has in the past.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Meh, Wildstar looks ok and all.....but EQN looks better.......I think I will just stick to Everquest Next. Game dont look good enough for a subscription.
Being a sub model Wildstar might have a rough start but I am very happy that they are offering it. This game looks just awesome. My enthusiasm for action combat has waned but the housing, crafting, story, humor and yes, the graphics, ensure that the question is not if I will sub but for how long.
I totally agree with what was said about ftp games not being the best quality. Interesting that the GW2 model was mentioned - and rejected. GW2 is a great game but these story updates have not interested me at all. Though GW2 is "the fast selling mmo of all time" I notice that the NC sales numbers put Lineage as a much better performer. I do not mean to knock GW2 - just the payment model. I would almost bet that if GW2 was a sub model (and it is good enough to be one) if there would not be an expansion in the works.
As for the release date moving to 2014 I am not surprised or upset. Though every race and class was announced I have seen no videos of the new races in action, nor has there been any mention of open beta testing. That is fine with me. "Release it when it is ready" is an excellent mantra. Yes, the more I hear from them the more I like Carbine and makes me REALLY want Wildstar.
And why are there so many replies to this article, do people actually give a crap about this game?
Sadly, there's a huge amount of inconsistency in the mmo fanbase when it comes to buying power. Money in these games is power. It certainly was in EVE, and it will be in Wildstar. When a game does NOT allow these transactions, the fanboys are in total agreement that anyone who buys gold should be castrated immediately, perhaps even cutting in front of pedos in the castration line.
But when a game allows it, fanboys make all sorts of apologies and excuses and argue all day long that it's not pay2win (which can mean any number of things, so they get to pretend they win that argument when it means nothing to do so).
Do people care about this game? Obviously they do or people like you would not waste their time posting in its thread. Perhaps some thought before posting would be in order?
Simply put Like it or hate it you do care or you would not have posted.
Meh, Wildstar looks ok and all.....but EQN looks better.......I think I will just stick to Everquest Next. Game dont look good enough for a subscription.
GOOD LUCK THOU
Thanks, my opinions basically opposite of yours as EQN graphics look a lot worse to me, but then that is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck to you!
I have to say this looks like a pretty good idea,but of course i have to be skeptical,developers are not in the business of giving games away for free,so i look for a catch.
Subscription model is full out perfect imo,as long as there is not any other form of cash shop along with it,that really pissed me off with SOE.
The one area that i can see as a possible catch is the GOLD.First of all ,i applaud them for the "lowest price" idea for Credd,i have zero complaints and i doubt anyone would.
Now here is where i see a possible problem with gold.If Gold becomes the commodity that is very tough to come by,i see a problem.Credd is more expensive to buy than actual game time,don't see the logic in that,however if Gold is so tough to come by,i could see that being used to supplement gold rather than the other way around which on the surface looks like a system to get CREDD.
They mention third party,but how is this system suppose to stop the GOLD part of it?That is the shady business model of Plex,we see MASSIVE amount of plex spamming in EVE but nothing is done about it,makes you wonder why?You see a LOT of these RMT markets approach game developers,NGE is a famous one,you can never be too sure they are not involved with developers or perhaps even the few people putting the system in place.
I don't like ANY system that appears shady,i prefer a simple subscription fee,with NO STRINGS attached.If they want to PRETEND to give the players some recourse then offer better subscription models.
I like to see something like 15 /mnth...60 for 6 months and 90 for a year.If every single player bought the yearly at 200k that would be 18 million more than enough to handle the bandwidth with some left over for wages and overhead.They should realize that it is NOT smart business to THINK just because you believe your content is worthy to rely on players sticking around moire than a few months.So instead of possibly 45 bucks or less,entice them to the full year benefit plan.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm SHOCKED at the amount of people that would perfer F2P over a sub...for $15 you get the ENTIRE GAME !!
You dont have to pay for your
helmet show/not show
your last name visable
Special story quest
mounts
compainions
flavor gear
bag space
bank bag space
pets
clearly P2W style enchants
Passes to PVP
Passes to Dungeons
Passes to Raid
Dyes for gear
items to change your gear to other looks
Need I go on? You people are INSANE!!!
I agree, especially in cases like TOR, EQ2 early on and AOC early on.. Why would more play them free when they cost so much more to get the basics?
True this^
Most people see FTP and these become stupid and buy the idea hook line and sinker. Even though its been shown in many case (especially SOE's models) that it cost more then a subscription would. There is no spoon, and FTP is a lie.
I love people who say they don t like sub models, makes it a bad move. There are millions and millions who do like it. I m so glad FFXIV is going this way, as well as Wildstar. EQ2 had a terrible F2P model early on it s getting better, but to me is worth the sub. WoW is still a massive success, and is worth the sub.
Thank god more are coming, and more will be coming.
I'm SHOCKED at the amount of people that would perfer F2P over a sub...for $15 you get the ENTIRE GAME !!
You dont have to pay for your
helmet show/not show
your last name visable
Special story quest
mounts
compainions
flavor gear
bag space
bank bag space
pets
clearly P2W style enchants
Passes to PVP
Passes to Dungeons
Passes to Raid
Dyes for gear
items to change your gear to other looks
Need I go on? You people are INSANE!!!
It's an interesting point. I suspect most diehard F2P players will counter that they have no interesting in those things, which is perfectly reasonable.
Though, I would be curious to see that revenue numbers a month per user that are spent in the different payment models. Unfortunately, I don't think there's such a degree of transparency from the various companies.
It's simple math: year 2005 or later + P2P = Dead on arrival. There are no exceptions to this rule. This won't be any different.
Things to do at level cap are what keeps people playing....sadly pretty much every MMO released in the last 5-6 years keep forgetting this....Wildstar at least is investing its time into endgame conent....what stuff is there at alunch will be its sink or swim defining moment.
If im in a MMO where I can clear its hardest raids in 1-2 weeks (SWTOR), im prob not gonna sub more than a month or 2. If it takes my guild 2-3 months to clear the raids on normal mode, then another couple of months to clear it on the hardest setting (WoW), what do ya know, iv just subbed for 5 months...
Comments
This works great for me!
I have always felt that subscriptions are just fine if the game is great. I spend 15 bucks on a lunch at a coffee when I'm at work. Big deal.
If the game is bad? I won't play long enough to pay the first month anyway, so the onus is on them to do well.
On principle alone, I am not a fan of free-to-play games. I think it trains gamers to not value what a developer has put on the table and that games are trivial to make. How many people just download only free games and move from free game to free game without spending a dime? They just assume "Oh, someone else will by all the crap in the cash shop". And to an extent that is true. But eventually, no one will want the crap in the cash shop, but the developer still needs to make money. And by then games will have been completely devalued.
I will admit, I prefer something like GW2's model (pay once, never again), but with a server-based game, it takes a special scenario to make that work.
How many of you that are complaining about this pricing model actually play free-to-play games as they are intended? Playing the game, and buying what you want, that is.
I would wager you don't spend anything on these games, so you aren't really a CUSTOMER at all, are you? And if you do spend money? How much to you spend? What is acceptable to you?
ESO...realistic?
WHo said I only read the headline? that was conjecture on your part, you had me set up from there on out, when he said unlikely to have a sub, my mindset said, it's free to play. HEnce my joking response to you," what will they charge skittles?"
Which at that point you should have figured I'm referring to monthly costs. Yet no, you went on to say next "what are you going to say B2P and F2P are the same thing to save face?" another set-up aimed against me explaining myself and winning the internets. To which I tried explaining myself anyway, and here we are... And yes I'm done this time. As this is obviously going no where.
You win....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree. For many gamers, most theme park games just no longer warrant a subscription after they quickly churn through the content. The developer will undoubtedly cash in as much as possible in game sales and subscription fees before being forced to go F2P. I would happily pay a subscription for an MMO world I can truly immerse myself in for several months if not years, but theme park MMO models just don't cut it long term.
i'm happy about the subscription model but i think 60 for the box is way too high.
i would have expected 20 for the box and the standard fee, or 30 if you actually go to a bricks and mortar and pick up a physical box.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Despite not thinking that this is really a title that would interest me, I feel strangely compelled by this news to buy a copy and sub for 3 months or so just to show some solidarity for their support of P2P.
Maybe I'll pay it a little closer attention at launch and see if it's actually worthwhile and consider playing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think you will be missed. The "I don't want to pay anything" but will play for free and have fun entitled crowd really is kind of sad. Have fun hoping other people are always willing to pay for your enjoyment.
Why would you link an article that said exactly what I just did, preceeded by a "you were saying?" You clearly ment for that article to contradict what i said, right?.....and the only way you could have thought that the article went against my post...is by only reading the headline.....see where im going here? (I think u knew all long). I think the point is clear for all by now, lets stop filling up this thread
Ahwell. Was hoping for GW2's model. I don't play sub games anymore. I'll rather spend the money on things I choose, instead of giving the devs an arbitrary amount of cash every month to do as they please.
See you guys when this goes F2P, within the first year I'd wager.
I've read "Theme Park" game thrown around a few times here, so I'm curious--
What that mean exactly to the people using it and how are we able to apply it (I'm assuming negatively) to a game that isn't slated for release until Spring 2014?
Horrible plan, as you're still supporting a product not aimed at you, on top of that 3 months and quit is the typical path of those who have forced many a P2P, into the position of going f2P.
You're only showing a trend that you're interested in the ideas/design/look, yet not enough to stick around for a P2P version of it. Which in turn the dev/pub will blame P2P for the failing just as everyone else has in the past.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Meh, Wildstar looks ok and all.....but EQN looks better.......I think I will just stick to Everquest Next. Game dont look good enough for a subscription.
GOOD LUCK THOU
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==
Being a sub model Wildstar might have a rough start but I am very happy that they are offering it. This game looks just awesome. My enthusiasm for action combat has waned but the housing, crafting, story, humor and yes, the graphics, ensure that the question is not if I will sub but for how long.
I totally agree with what was said about ftp games not being the best quality. Interesting that the GW2 model was mentioned - and rejected. GW2 is a great game but these story updates have not interested me at all. Though GW2 is "the fast selling mmo of all time" I notice that the NC sales numbers put Lineage as a much better performer. I do not mean to knock GW2 - just the payment model. I would almost bet that if GW2 was a sub model (and it is good enough to be one) if there would not be an expansion in the works.
As for the release date moving to 2014 I am not surprised or upset. Though every race and class was announced I have seen no videos of the new races in action, nor has there been any mention of open beta testing. That is fine with me. "Release it when it is ready" is an excellent mantra. Yes, the more I hear from them the more I like Carbine and makes me REALLY want Wildstar.
YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
Great effing news!!
Do people care about this game? Obviously they do or people like you would not waste their time posting in its thread. Perhaps some thought before posting would be in order?
Simply put Like it or hate it you do care or you would not have posted.
I'm SHOCKED at the amount of people that would perfer F2P over a sub...for $15 you get the ENTIRE GAME !!
You dont have to pay for your
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
I agree, especially in cases like TOR, EQ2 early on and AOC early on.. Why would more play them free when they cost so much more to get the basics?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thanks, my opinions basically opposite of yours as EQN graphics look a lot worse to me, but then that is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck to you!
It's simple math: year 2005 or later + P2P = Dead on arrival. There are no exceptions to this rule. This won't be any different.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
I have to say this looks like a pretty good idea,but of course i have to be skeptical,developers are not in the business of giving games away for free,so i look for a catch.
Subscription model is full out perfect imo,as long as there is not any other form of cash shop along with it,that really pissed me off with SOE.
The one area that i can see as a possible catch is the GOLD.First of all ,i applaud them for the "lowest price" idea for Credd,i have zero complaints and i doubt anyone would.
Now here is where i see a possible problem with gold.If Gold becomes the commodity that is very tough to come by,i see a problem.Credd is more expensive to buy than actual game time,don't see the logic in that,however if Gold is so tough to come by,i could see that being used to supplement gold rather than the other way around which on the surface looks like a system to get CREDD.
They mention third party,but how is this system suppose to stop the GOLD part of it?That is the shady business model of Plex,we see MASSIVE amount of plex spamming in EVE but nothing is done about it,makes you wonder why?You see a LOT of these RMT markets approach game developers,NGE is a famous one,you can never be too sure they are not involved with developers or perhaps even the few people putting the system in place.
I don't like ANY system that appears shady,i prefer a simple subscription fee,with NO STRINGS attached.If they want to PRETEND to give the players some recourse then offer better subscription models.
I like to see something like 15 /mnth...60 for 6 months and 90 for a year.If every single player bought the yearly at 200k that would be 18 million more than enough to handle the bandwidth with some left over for wages and overhead.They should realize that it is NOT smart business to THINK just because you believe your content is worthy to rely on players sticking around moire than a few months.So instead of possibly 45 bucks or less,entice them to the full year benefit plan.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
True this^
Most people see FTP and these become stupid and buy the idea hook line and sinker. Even though its been shown in many case (especially SOE's models) that it cost more then a subscription would. There is no spoon, and FTP is a lie.
I love people who say they don t like sub models, makes it a bad move. There are millions and millions who do like it. I m so glad FFXIV is going this way, as well as Wildstar. EQ2 had a terrible F2P model early on it s getting better, but to me is worth the sub. WoW is still a massive success, and is worth the sub.
Thank god more are coming, and more will be coming.
It's an interesting point. I suspect most diehard F2P players will counter that they have no interesting in those things, which is perfectly reasonable.
Though, I would be curious to see that revenue numbers a month per user that are spent in the different payment models. Unfortunately, I don't think there's such a degree of transparency from the various companies.
Things to do at level cap are what keeps people playing....sadly pretty much every MMO released in the last 5-6 years keep forgetting this....Wildstar at least is investing its time into endgame conent....what stuff is there at alunch will be its sink or swim defining moment.
If im in a MMO where I can clear its hardest raids in 1-2 weeks (SWTOR), im prob not gonna sub more than a month or 2. If it takes my guild 2-3 months to clear the raids on normal mode, then another couple of months to clear it on the hardest setting (WoW), what do ya know, iv just subbed for 5 months...