Well i won't play Wildstar in that way. The game won't give me back all the money in my hours played (lately i have little time to play games), but p2p model gives an opportunity for good updates, support and a lot of content.
I personaly doubt that Wildstar will keep p2p very long. Players are divided into many MMOs and not everyone is Bill Gates to pay monthly fee for every game they play . I'm afraid that p2p in Wildstar will last untill they earn money that they invested into production.
Wildstar is only the second P2P/B2P MMO to come out this year, we are half way thorough August and only two so far. I welcome this news as it shows they must have has more funding prior to launch which equals a better MMO.
As for players who want everything in the world of gaming to be free...get real.
"usually around $10 mil of additional Dev cost to put in microtrans" - Come on it can't cost that much! It's a bloody cash shop not a new mini game.
I am thrilled there is no cash shop, but at the same time, The cash Shop isn't what I disliked about GW2. It was the fact that the entire economy of the game revolves around the value of Gems and very few items have any value so players can't become wealthy enough to never need to buy gems. I'd prefer a GW2 like Cash Shop if only it wasn't for real money conversions. I will probably not be paying a Sub for a game where I can buy in-game currency
EVE has 2 advantages that make this model work that I am very curious to see here.
1. EVE had 5 years to mature it's game economy before introducing PLEX. The game was a sandbox and the economy was very strong. This allowed for the value of ISK to grow on its own for 5 years without any influence from the real world's economy. So when it was finally introduced, the value of real currency was exceedingly week against the value of EVE's money. So while it's technically possible to "pay to win" in EVE, the amount of real money to do it would be insane. And that's even assuming the amount invested into the PLEX system would be enough to do it.
Wild Star will not have this advantage. The value of Credd will be set against real money from the get-go and will never be allowed to grow beyond it. Fortunately it's a Theme Park. But I still have to wonder what will happen to the game's economy and all the metagames that surround it.
2. It's advantageous within EVE for players to have multiple accounts and CCP was brilliant in figuring out how to subsidize that across the "mediocre" player base to allow the more invested players to leverage their in-game success so those under them can pay for it. I'd have to wonder how successful PLEX would be if EVE players ever only needed or wanted a single account. not saying it wouldn't work, there'd just be less commodity to trade.
Wild Star does not look like a game players will want multiple accounts in.
Its going to have to be one hell of a game for me to pay to play with all the ftp/btp options out there. Kind of a disappointment, but it will go ftp at some point so I can just wait if the game is good but not great.
Your gonna run out and pay 60 bux for a game you do not own, and in 6 months to a year, they will give away what you paid 60 bux for... cuse its happend over and over and over.. and people keep falling for it , there are more people who prefer f2p/b2p than there is people who enjoy a sub...
Good -- it's been a bit since a decent sub-based game will launch. Now I can support the developers properly rather than have to use a cash shop. Kudos to Carbine!
P2P is good. IF the game is based on ACTUAL mechanics and stardars in the ACTUAL MMO market. Wildstar is just a wow clone with boring quest hubs, boring wall-of-text quests, boring exping, boring storyline, subpar graphics. The only nice thing is housing, all the rest is a game that says OLD from everywhere. And they think people will pay a monthly fee for this. Look at Rift, after the first month, less than half the account sold were still playing in game... Wildstar will be the same. And F2P in less than a year, just like Rift.
oh well I was kinda looking forward to play this game but since its going to be P2P I wont. been playing wow for the past years and P2P isn't great for weekend warriors or casual gamers such a waste. will be sticking on playing AION for now
"So we’re a bit old-school. Big ass raids. Tough raids. Raids you have to earn your way into beating, and raids that aren’t made so your grandma can make it through. Sure, we can make things easier over time - but only if there are new challenges to give a tough time to the hardest of the hardcore." http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
That does sound rather nice. Personally, I'm still looking for an MMO that's challenging throughout from Start Game to endgame, but I guess no one's interested in making one.
Originally posted by Arakazi
Originally posted by Scalpless *snip*
This is nonsense, FFARR is sub based for a start. Secondly. WoW's decline isn't related to to it's payment model. It is coming up to being a decade old, it has made poor choices with it's expansions and it has had to deal with increasing compitition in what is a saturated market. The only real surprise is that despite it's shortcomings WoW is still by any measure the most successful MMO out in the market in the west. Rather than being a reason for it's decline it may be a reason for it's continued success. But this is all post hoc ergo propter hoc.
However, people are willing to pay for a quality product and $10 - $15 is a small price to pay.
I'm not talking about the payment model. I'm sure people would pay $15 per month for a great game. I'm talking about the whole "quest grind to level cap and raid afterwards" thing.
Guild wars 2 gives me every moth new content for free. I do not think it is necessary to pay 12$ per moth to play a game nowadays. I will not buy this game
Originally posted by pwain Guild wars 2 gives me every moth new content for free. I do not think it is necessary to pay 12$ per moth to play a game nowadays. I will not buy this game
For you. Remember, that decision is yours and yours alone to make. Your dollar is still as valuable as my dollar.
My dollar will be used for un-subsidized real good gaming.
To me buy to play models seem more viable for the market these days, firstly you actually have a fixed income from the sales you make then you can always introduce the in game cash shop to provide revenue for server costs and labor. P2P is hard to succeed in because of the state of the industry.
I'm going to buy and support it just for the P2P move. And to p*** off Mr. Aihoshi.
DOWN WITH F2P!!!!111 HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAARRR!
I will buy it and sub just because I hate f2p but I can't play any game with cartoon graphics. Good news in ff14 and now this going sub I hope more follow.
I would like to see what the average F2P player spends on his or her games per month. I would then like to see what the average "F2P Only" player spends per month and whether they are actually saving money or not. Is there an initial heavy investment? Does it depend on how casual a gamer you are?
With F2P companies would not be using it if they were not making money. In several cases the games seem to be doing very well. They would not be if people were not spending money. In fact I dare say going F2P has become a money making tactic. Which of course means its not free for those players who chose to spend money.
I dunno, I think the whole F2P vs. B2P vs. Sub is more a mental game with the player base than anything. Companies would not use a model where they did not make money. Players would not play a game that was not giving them everything they wanted and needed in an MMO. Who's fooling who?
tons of games come and go and now that its beign pushed to 2014 along with other mmos due at that date- they have alot to compete agaisnt-including F2p and B2p.
yes, itll be awsome at first, but your bank account wont think so.
lol our bank account? The amount that these games charge per month for a sub is about the price of a good lunch.
The things is; and what has been said by another developer, f2p or "b2p with cash shop" doesn't guarantee you a steady"ish" revenue. You never know what you will be getting month to month.
At least with a p2p the players are more steady and as long as they are clear (and by that I mean realistic) on their demographic and what the game can deliver they will be fine.
Now, having said that, my thought is that they very well could be going the p2p route just to get a large influx of money and if subs drop drastically they can pull the f2p option out of their hat.
But let's not pretend that $15 per month is something that is a large amount of money. Even over the long term. It's a pittance compared to what most of us spend on "anything" over the course of a year.
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I have to agree with Vorch, subscription games are obsolete.. idc if you can grind and buy time with in game gold.. still have to pay a sub... time/money.. Ill stick with my f2p/b2p games... too many good games out there that dont require a sub, to mess with one that has a sub.. plain and simple.
Tell that to Turbine and EA, their games still thrive on subs, sure the dabblers still play free, but those that enjoy the game sub and that includes a lot of the everyday population.
I think this is a good move, it tells the world this is no fleeting f2p game we are playing with the big boys. I really dislike item shops and the constant need to purchase from them.
For all the hoopla about the b2p model in GW, the game still almost requires purchases in the item shop to really enjoy it, hence it really is not b2p at all, just another f2p game that requires an initial investment.
Don't get me wrong, I do support F2P games sometimes. First I check and double check to ensure no one else playing that game can get to "max level/gear/dungeon" without paying...something.
If it meets the criteria, sure, I'll download it and give it a go. If it however lets a single person "skate by" then that game is uninstalled and down rated faster then I can blink an eye.
How in the hell, you call yourself gamer, and saying that you'll not play it if it's not F2P. You call yourself gamer, and say that there are a dozen of better games out there ( F2P ), then WildStar? If so, WHAT are you doing here? Go play your "dozen better" F2P titles, and leave WildStar to gamers.
Having saying that, this is not targeted to those who said that they don't feel attracted to WS. Those I understand.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Originally posted by NoxiousBass No complaints here, the CREDD option is very clever, gives a diferent option to get play time AND kicking the gold spammers teeth in? Brilliant! I will be playing FFXIV for now (an excelent MMO) until I get to try Wildstar out for myself. When the time comes I have to choose one.
I totally expected this based on what they said a year or two ago during an MMORPG interview. While P2P itself won't be viable for long, starting with it (for them) is probably the best move they could make both in terms of economics and marketing.
I'm reminded of a quote they said that they enjoy the model whereby going Box + P2P for the first year is great for recovering the costs of development, and then immediately switching to F2P will boost sales through the roof. It's a tactic that I despise and called SWTOR on when it was still in it's beta phase, as it just seemed poised to try and milk players for their worth, trick P2P fans into buying it and then switching once they established themselves.
Given the nature of the game and it's fall in hype over the past year, it's hard to conclude that it will be successful if it remains P2P; all signs indicate this is a front for something else. This is further evident when one realizes they have NCsoft as a publisher and investors to pay back; it isn't a self made, self published game and vasts amounts of cash will needed to be acquired and quickly. It just doesn't seem logical if they don't following the business plan above, as cheeky as I believe it to be.
If the game was more popular as a whole, they might've been able to do the whole B2P initially (or if their franchise was strong). Though as I watched it deteriorate from many's field of view in the MMO world, it became evident that these were smart people and they knew how the market worked and how their game was placed within it. To follow through with their own beliefs made over a year ago seems ample evidence to believe such, at least.
So I say, not out of hate for any payment model per se, but rather out of conservative estimates based on educated guesses... that it will likely go either F2P or B2P within the next two and a half years (optimistic guess), if not within the next 12 months of it's release.
To be sure I'll give it a shot then, as I've not been impressed with what I've seen so far (minus the humor of the videos) in their direction to justify quitting the other games I'm currently into. Truth be told, I've been put on a limit by the misses to only one P2P game at a time (as I barely have enough time to play that, anyway). Gone are the days where I might have had at least 5 active.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Comments
Well i won't play Wildstar in that way. The game won't give me back all the money in my hours played (lately i have little time to play games), but p2p model gives an opportunity for good updates, support and a lot of content.
I personaly doubt that Wildstar will keep p2p very long. Players are divided into many MMOs and not everyone is Bill Gates to pay monthly fee for every game they play
. I'm afraid that p2p in Wildstar will last untill they earn money that they invested into production.
If the can produce a QUALITY game they will do fine.
Still hating on NC myself though from the closing of CoX.
Wildstar is only the second P2P/B2P MMO to come out this year, we are half way thorough August and only two so far. I welcome this news as it shows they must have has more funding prior to launch which equals a better MMO.
As for players who want everything in the world of gaming to be free...get real.
"usually around $10 mil of additional Dev cost to put in microtrans" - Come on it can't cost that much! It's a bloody cash shop not a new mini game.
I am thrilled there is no cash shop, but at the same time, The cash Shop isn't what I disliked about GW2. It was the fact that the entire economy of the game revolves around the value of Gems and very few items have any value so players can't become wealthy enough to never need to buy gems. I'd prefer a GW2 like Cash Shop if only it wasn't for real money conversions. I will probably not be paying a Sub for a game where I can buy in-game currency
EVE has 2 advantages that make this model work that I am very curious to see here.
1. EVE had 5 years to mature it's game economy before introducing PLEX. The game was a sandbox and the economy was very strong. This allowed for the value of ISK to grow on its own for 5 years without any influence from the real world's economy. So when it was finally introduced, the value of real currency was exceedingly week against the value of EVE's money. So while it's technically possible to "pay to win" in EVE, the amount of real money to do it would be insane. And that's even assuming the amount invested into the PLEX system would be enough to do it.
Wild Star will not have this advantage. The value of Credd will be set against real money from the get-go and will never be allowed to grow beyond it. Fortunately it's a Theme Park. But I still have to wonder what will happen to the game's economy and all the metagames that surround it.
2. It's advantageous within EVE for players to have multiple accounts and CCP was brilliant in figuring out how to subsidize that across the "mediocre" player base to allow the more invested players to leverage their in-game success so those under them can pay for it. I'd have to wonder how successful PLEX would be if EVE players ever only needed or wanted a single account. not saying it wouldn't work, there'd just be less commodity to trade.
Wild Star does not look like a game players will want multiple accounts in.
Huge mistake. Number of AAA MMOs released in the latter half of the naughties that have survived on that model. 0.
The player base has voted with their wallets, they prefer the B2P or F2P models.
Not just another pretty color.
Oh, the tears being shed here...makes me so happy.
Go Wildstar! It's like "ruh roh. Did the 'whales' win?"
Bahaha.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
That does sound rather nice. Personally, I'm still looking for an MMO that's challenging throughout from Start Game to endgame, but I guess no one's interested in making one.
I'm not talking about the payment model. I'm sure people would pay $15 per month for a great game. I'm talking about the whole "quest grind to level cap and raid afterwards" thing.
For you. Remember, that decision is yours and yours alone to make. Your dollar is still as valuable as my dollar.
My dollar will be used for un-subsidized real good gaming.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
I will buy it and sub just because I hate f2p but I can't play any game with cartoon graphics. Good news in ff14 and now this going sub I hope more follow.
I would like to see what the average F2P player spends on his or her games per month. I would then like to see what the average "F2P Only" player spends per month and whether they are actually saving money or not. Is there an initial heavy investment? Does it depend on how casual a gamer you are?
With F2P companies would not be using it if they were not making money. In several cases the games seem to be doing very well. They would not be if people were not spending money. In fact I dare say going F2P has become a money making tactic. Which of course means its not free for those players who chose to spend money.
I dunno, I think the whole F2P vs. B2P vs. Sub is more a mental game with the player base than anything. Companies would not use a model where they did not make money. Players would not play a game that was not giving them everything they wanted and needed in an MMO. Who's fooling who?
Just My 2 Lunars
lol our bank account? The amount that these games charge per month for a sub is about the price of a good lunch.
The things is; and what has been said by another developer, f2p or "b2p with cash shop" doesn't guarantee you a steady"ish" revenue. You never know what you will be getting month to month.
At least with a p2p the players are more steady and as long as they are clear (and by that I mean realistic) on their demographic and what the game can deliver they will be fine.
Now, having said that, my thought is that they very well could be going the p2p route just to get a large influx of money and if subs drop drastically they can pull the f2p option out of their hat.
But let's not pretend that $15 per month is something that is a large amount of money. Even over the long term. It's a pittance compared to what most of us spend on "anything" over the course of a year.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Tell that to Turbine and EA, their games still thrive on subs, sure the dabblers still play free, but those that enjoy the game sub and that includes a lot of the everyday population.
I think this is a good move, it tells the world this is no fleeting f2p game we are playing with the big boys. I really dislike item shops and the constant need to purchase from them.
For all the hoopla about the b2p model in GW, the game still almost requires purchases in the item shop to really enjoy it, hence it really is not b2p at all, just another f2p game that requires an initial investment.
Don't get me wrong, I do support F2P games sometimes. First I check and double check to ensure no one else playing that game can get to "max level/gear/dungeon" without paying...something.
If it meets the criteria, sure, I'll download it and give it a go. If it however lets a single person "skate by" then that game is uninstalled and down rated faster then I can blink an eye.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
How in the hell, you call yourself gamer, and saying that you'll not play it if it's not F2P. You call yourself gamer, and say that there are a dozen of better games out there ( F2P ), then WildStar? If so, WHAT are you doing here? Go play your "dozen better" F2P titles, and leave WildStar to gamers.
Having saying that, this is not targeted to those who said that they don't feel attracted to WS. Those I understand.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Many games have this, not exactly new.
I totally expected this based on what they said a year or two ago during an MMORPG interview. While P2P itself won't be viable for long, starting with it (for them) is probably the best move they could make both in terms of economics and marketing.
I'm reminded of a quote they said that they enjoy the model whereby going Box + P2P for the first year is great for recovering the costs of development, and then immediately switching to F2P will boost sales through the roof. It's a tactic that I despise and called SWTOR on when it was still in it's beta phase, as it just seemed poised to try and milk players for their worth, trick P2P fans into buying it and then switching once they established themselves.
Given the nature of the game and it's fall in hype over the past year, it's hard to conclude that it will be successful if it remains P2P; all signs indicate this is a front for something else. This is further evident when one realizes they have NCsoft as a publisher and investors to pay back; it isn't a self made, self published game and vasts amounts of cash will needed to be acquired and quickly. It just doesn't seem logical if they don't following the business plan above, as cheeky as I believe it to be.
If the game was more popular as a whole, they might've been able to do the whole B2P initially (or if their franchise was strong). Though as I watched it deteriorate from many's field of view in the MMO world, it became evident that these were smart people and they knew how the market worked and how their game was placed within it. To follow through with their own beliefs made over a year ago seems ample evidence to believe such, at least.
So I say, not out of hate for any payment model per se, but rather out of conservative estimates based on educated guesses... that it will likely go either F2P or B2P within the next two and a half years (optimistic guess), if not within the next 12 months of it's release.
To be sure I'll give it a shot then, as I've not been impressed with what I've seen so far (minus the humor of the videos) in their direction to justify quitting the other games I'm currently into. Truth be told, I've been put on a limit by the misses to only one P2P game at a time (as I barely have enough time to play that, anyway). Gone are the days where I might have had at least 5 active.