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Gamers are destroying the industry.

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Comments

  • cydoneqcydoneq Hong KongPosts: 64Member

    mabye their are just little kids that are just sad and didnt learnd a better way to express their feelings.

    but anyways their are just morons and trolls that suck at life and should be dead /irony off

    i blame their parents.

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  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by rnor6084

    The article is correct. Gamers are the problem. Not the developers.

     

     

    http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/gamers-killing-game-industry-195959860.html

     

    Is it the chicken or the egg?

    I say it's both.

     

    The Chicken, i.e., the developer

    Developers have been mass producing a fairly pathetic quality of mmorpgs in an effort to (a) copy the WoW model (b) ease up on costs due to the recession (which the gaming industry only benefited from...another discussion) (c) lowering of standards of quality and a dumming down effect to meet the projected intellectual needs of today's gamer demographic (allegedly a stoned adolescent to young adult in their mother's basement).

     

    The Egg, i.e., the gamer

    Gamers, like students in a school or children in a household, might emulate those who are in a position to guide them.  Hence, uneducated parents tend to produce uneducated kids (or kids who have to really work much harder than most to succeed in academia).  A developer might produce a crappy game and get away with it, purely because the egg or gamer, lowers their expectations from years of such games, and is thereby conditioned to assume that this is the best there is.

     

    You see this conditioning of expectations quite often with gamers who immediately palm face when they read a title will have PvP.  They assume all pvp is like EQ's old pvp servers, where the term griefing came from (some say Ultima).  Lazy unimaginative programmers who for some stupid reason get to write lore into a game think that merely lifting the coding that stops a gamer from attacking another gamer = PVP.  This is lazy and idiotic to say the least.  And even in EQ next this same crap is happening again. 

     

    So in a sense, I believe it's both the chicken and the egg that are responsible.  The chicken or developer, produces mediocre concepts in their mmo and paints an epic picture through advertising.  The egg, or gamer, goes to mmorpg.com and spouts the brilliance of the title, and once the game is out for a month, they burn out and run to the next title.  The developers see this, these lazy chickens that they are, and begin fabricating free to play cash shop games because they realize they will always get that 1 guy who will spend $1,000 on virtual crap, whereas they will never get enough players together in a sub to pay for their turd.

     

    It's both, I say

     

    So how to cure this?  Gamers, like voters in a political arena, need to make a statement.  Stop playing crap, and by default the bar will have to raise until it begins to attract players.  Developers need to create more in depth titles, something that ESO and Camelot Unchained are working on, for example, following the Dark Age of Camelot model.

     

    Why do I refer to the Dark Age of Camelot model?  Most gamers here won't even know what I'm referring to...many are post 2004 WoW players that see WoW as the Holy Church of gaming, i.e., everything else is just an offshoot of what WoW already did.  But Dark Age was the first and last title in the past 12 years to have created distinct realms, races and classes. 

     

    As an example of where the industry has fallen:

     

    Dark Age of Camelot = (a) no instanced BG's = all persistent (running 24 x 7).  

                                         (b)  PvP in a realm benefits the whole realm - your alliance takes a castle, everyone benefits and 

                                               world pvp has specific goals, i.e., taking specific territory with castles, towers, and so forth

                                         (c)  24 races/three separate realms to level in to end game and raid in without seeing a single enemy

                                         (d)  44 classes divided among the three realms with separate animations, styles, spells, and so forth

     

    Typical mmorpg of today = (a) ALL instanced BGs emulating elementary school games like capture the flag, holding a position

                                                (king of the hill), a sort of tag your it pvp concept  and less intellectually driven than the Dark Age

                                                 model.

                                                (b) PvP only benefits the player or group in the instance, nothing you do matters to the world

                                                     and world pvp tends to just be anywhere you are leveling

                                                (c)  A handful of races/no factions or 2 with the option to bounce between at will/0 factions just

                                                      gang banger pvp mechanics where guild vs guild roams the zones.

                                                (d) classes by default are mirrors of each other in a factionless game.  Classes are slightly modified

                                                     in some 2 faction games or not at all for fear that people will complain about the greener grass

                                                     elsewhere.

     

     

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  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common

    Replying to my own post after seeing that I couldn't get it to format and also realizing that NO ONE CARES.

     

    lmao - I wrote a wall of text to myself.  I have to try and remember that this forum is probably the last place developers go to for advice.  Show me a corporate sponsor, however, and wooot - there's your foundation for creativity because we all know that wealth equivocates to creative reasoning! /sarcasm

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  • GrungukGrunguk MiddlesbroughPosts: 7Member

    This is pure sensationalism.

    How many people bought Black Ops 2 / Dragon Age 2?

    How many people sent death threats to these developers?

    The internet provides a shield of anonymity that people are choosing to abuse in every aspect of online society. How many stories have you read lately about cyber-bullies driving vulnerable teens to suicide on social network sites?

    You can't credibly condemn MASSIVE communities on the action of a few malcontents; the author of the article should be ashamed of himself for writing such rubbish.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Piechunks 

    I'd say there definitely is when there is impunity associated with their actions. 

    All the more reason not to excuse the actions of those people.  If human decency isn't an expected state due to the factors involved, then it needs to be enforced by other means.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member

    am i the only one that finds this more funny than serious?

    jennifer hepling lol, good riddance , u know there is an old saying " Dragon age 2 is like anal sex, i feel obliged to try but is too painfull to continue". 

    Go ask Inon Zur if he have any threat, despite the game being a turd the OST was amazing.

  • cydoneqcydoneq Hong KongPosts: 64Member
    i actual watched a forum up i was activ 10 years ago (was 15 there) and just have to say what a moron i was, talking about hacking guys and beat them up if there writing more shit, ;)

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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,461Member Uncommon

    I think your title and response are very misleading.

    This article is not about WHY games are good or bad,it is about the ugly side of gaming.

    I also feel the examples used are EXTREMELY rare,we never see or hear of them until an article makes note of it.Perfect proof is the lady from DA2 admitted herself that she really never seen much of it and chose to ignore it most of it.

    The real factual blemish on gaming is CHEATING and that takes several forms,it completely ruins a game's whole design.

    That article used COD as an example,that is  a horrid game for cheating and the sole reason i quit buying or playing that franchise.There is more to it however and not ALl the players to blame.What really pissed me off was the developer/publisher whoever you want to blame had ZERO recourse to take action against cheating.I searched long and hard to find a simple REPORT button or anything to let the developer know it needs to shore up it's game from cheating or everyone will quit playing.

    What i found was the developer simply did NOT CARE,that is a piss poor attitude in my opinion,so i chose to stop giving them a single penny and will never support them ever again.What it comes down to is as usual the gamer's ,so you can rightfully criticize the lame gamer's but it is also the good gamer's that report and stop cheating.using the COD example the players have to load anticheat like Punkbuster.

    Point is that it is never one sole entity to blame for poor gaming,it is a combined effort,the developer KNOWS what is going on inside and out and has the tools to stop it.Another perfect example is IP tracking to stop hackers from logging into our games,nope NOTHING,instead they ask US the people  that put food on their table to give them more money for added protection.

    You know what happens in the Auto industry?The Manufacturer MUST provide adequate safety or suffer from recalls and lawsuits,they cannot simply say "Pay us a little more and we will make sure your auto is safe".They also have to do a lot of testing BEFORE releasing that auto for sale,they can't use the lame excuse devs use by simply making you sign a TOS and say "Your information and security is your sole responsibility".

    Everything is a TWO -WAy street,it is not JUST the gamer's fault.


    Samoan Diamond

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    Bullshit article with all the depth of a kiddy wading pool. In fact I've just wasted 5 mins of my life reading and commenting on this crap.

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    There's nothing irrational about expecting basic human decency from people.  (In fact it's fairly irrational not to.)

    Well, there's this strange thing called anonymity on the Internet.

    Let's admit for a moment that I just insulted you or your family in this post. What can you do? Report to the moderators, get me banned, yeah, but that's it... I could be back 5 minutes later on an alt account and do it again.

    Now if we were face to face in "real life", you could punch me in the face, or take any other action with immediate consequences for me. And in "real life", if you get fired from a social place (library, bar, pub, etc...) you can't come back 5 minutes later with an alt.

    It's a similar problem than "open world PvP". If there are no harsh consequences for harsh actions, some people will behave like asshats.

    Actually, there's quite a bit they can do if you make any kind of credible threat against them.  The authorities are obligated to investigate all threats and your much-vaunted "anonymity" means nothing to the authorities with a warrant at your ISP.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Gamers are not destroying the industry.

    I am passionate MMORPG player since 15 Years now. NEVER did I curse or threaten a Dev. If I did not like a change I would post at most a constructive thread and just leave.

    Idiot brats without any sort of manners taught to them by their parents playing games are destroying the industry if this is really a problem.

     

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

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    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by Suraknar

    Gamers are not destroying the industry.

    I am passionate MMORPG player since 15 Years now. NEVER did I curse or threaten a Dev. If I did not like a change I would post at most a constructive thread and just leave.

    Idiot brats without any sort of manners taught to them by their parents playing games are destroying the industry if this is really a problem.

     

    /SIGNED

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  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILPosts: 1,311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Suraknar

    Gamers are not destroying the industry.

    I am passionate MMORPG player since 15 Years now. NEVER did I curse or threaten a Dev. If I did not like a change I would post at most a constructive thread and just leave.

    Idiot brats without any sort of manners taught to them by their parents playing games are destroying the industry if this is really a problem.

     

     

    Exactly. And it is developers that take such threats and taunting by players seriously that over react. By that I mean the cave in to this vocal minority or cringe  away in fear.

    At the same time, devs have to understand that their work is not always going to be accepted by the public. We usually vote with our wallets and not with some idiotic rants on the internet. Those of us that vote either positively by laying out our money or by with holding it are the ones they should be listening. With that said, making a game so-called "f2p" removes that ability many to vote CLEARLY if a game is what is wanted or not. Instead, people play because they don't have to PAY and therefore devs don't hear very loudly when a game is trash or when it is great.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    "I think fans harass developers for a range of reasons, but again, it is always about power and position," said Fisk, who was featured in Bullying in the Age of Social Media. "Fans are invested in the stories and worlds that developers create, and certain design decisions can be seen by fans to threaten those stories and worlds. Harassment silences and repositions content creators in ways that protect the interests of certain fan groups, which again is no justification for the kinds of abusive behavior and language seen online today."

    I think this article referenced is even more interesting.

    http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

  • zimikezimike Dayton, TXPosts: 129Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper

    LMAO!

    this is the most absurd statement ever.

    it's like saying grocery shoppers are destroying the food industry, or drivers are destroying the car industry. total BS.

     

    the truth is the more and more developers are becoming increasingly greedy and want to make games only for profit. this means going for cheap garbage in volume instead of trying to produce quality with a high risk of missing the general's interest. the Wall mart approach is much more business savoy.

     

    a perfect example is Minecraft. an incredible success for a game that is horrendously simple by today's standards, and yet truly inspired by a gamer mind, not a business mind thinking of costs vs market shares. the idea behind the game was to creat something completely new and exciting. not cashing in on the latest trend.

     

    the so called "insatiable locusts" of today's gaming world have been carefully created on purpose by gaming executives just so there will always be a hungry horde waiting to consume whatever cheap re-cycled garbage they feel like dishing that particular week. if people were happy with their 1 game for years on end, who the hell would make money anymore? 

    Well said.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Vocal minorities are indeed the scourge of the industry.
  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member

    i still dont know why they just dont track the guy down and kick some royal arse. the internet isnt totally anon, easy to grab an ip,  narrow down the region, the area, do a track on  that ip, see what else they posted ,  and eventually nab him.

    sure you have to know how it works, but the devs, should know people that do that kinda thing,

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by killahh

    i still dont know why they just dont track the guy down and kick some royal arse. the internet isnt totally anon, easy to grab an ip,  narrow down the region, the area, do a track on  that ip, see what else they posted ,  and eventually nab him.

    sure you have to know how it works, but the devs, should know people that do that kinda thing,

    I think the problem would be once you tracked the person down, it will turn out to be some 14 year old and you end up with one of those Texas cases - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/teenager-justin-carter-facebook-comment-jail_n_3512025.html

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon

    some people are just stupid.

    You know what the developers should do when receiving death threats about a game? SHut down the damn game and tell publicly to those idiots threatening them, IN YOUR FACE!  too bad they wont do it because the games clearly sell well.

     

    SOme people are just reaaaally stupid.

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Vocal minorities are indeed the scourge of the industry.

    +1

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  • greywolf2002greywolf2002 ViveiroPosts: 17Member

    Aha, sooo:

    -Some dogs get rabies and atack people.

    -Dogs as a whole are dangerous, they are threatening the human race.

    -Let's kill all dogs and save human race. In fact, lets's kill all kind of plantigrades. Better safe than sorry.

     

    It's kinda the same thing. I don't know if you wanted to create a shitstorm or something, but these articles are pretty dumb. Every public figure or person that gets his/her name to be know WILL receive death threats at some point.

    Gaming industry is not special.

     

    Do you want a solution to this threats?

    No credits. No names. Nothing.

    Bam. No more threats, because there is nobody to threat.

     

    Remenber: no matter who you are, where are you from, what do you think, what you believe, what age / gender / race are you, what do you do or say or don't do or don't say; there will always be people that will hate you for it, and there will always be some few people out there that will want to kill you for it.

     

    Don't take it personal. They are just stupid like that.

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    This should be between the victims and the police instead of advertising it.

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greywolf2002

     

    Do you want a solution to this threats?

    No credits. No names. Nothing.

    Bam. No more threats, because there is nobody to threat.

     

    you want a better solution to this threats? Its has been discussed many times already.

    Stop allowing anonimity on the internet and in our case, in online gaming.

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  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by greywolf2002

     

    Do you want a solution to this threats?

    No credits. No names. Nothing.

    Bam. No more threats, because there is nobody to threat.

     

    you want a better solution to this threats? Its has been discussed many times already.

    Stop allowing anonimity on the internet and in our case, in online gaming.

    How about we all tell our stories of people threatening us. Some even cyber stalked and privacy invaded. If you feel threatened call the police and handle it with them. What do you want from us?

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Vocal minorities are indeed the scourge of the industry.

    It's not just vocal minorities, it's clueless vocal minorities who have no idea what they're talking about and they don't want to listen to anyone else either.

    It happens a lot around here.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

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