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[Column] DUST 514: Ashes to Ashes...

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,180Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    " It's a PS3 exclusive. In fairness, they probably got a boatload of money to make it that way. "

    That quote immediately told me that this guy rarely uses the internet search feature to research his articles so you can read what he writes with a skeptical eye.  Just for you edification Mr. Coke, the game was initially going to be on the xbox, but due to restrictions that CCP could not live with from Microsoft, was switched to the PS3.  They intentionally did not do a PC version because they did not want it conflicting with Eve.

    Anyone who follows Eve would know this, hence I really have to question your ability to be qualified to write this article at all.

    What the author did do, was point out the major problems with this game.  From a console player's perspective this is a poorly written FPS.  It is pay-to-win.  I am not sure why CCP decided they should get into the console business, but they should have hired some designers with console FPS experience.  They really need to change how they fund this game, as it stands I would never recommend it to anyone.

    So, let me get this straight, you're discrediting my article because of one tiny, almost indisputable line and using the other 90% to support your own argument? And you believe that because CCP didn't hop on a forum and spell out that Sony paid them that it didn't happen? Pull that blanket a little tighter over your head.

    I guarantee you Sony paid them for an exclusivity contract. It's how console exclusives work: Sony pays developers to make console exclusives because it helps them sell consoles.  The funding is why developer's agree to it because by tying themselves to a single platform, they limit their sales. Why would studios like Naughty Dog ever agree to console exclusivity otherwise? If you only pay attention to the MMO space, you may not know that, but if you seriously believe CCP is keeping DUST on PS3 to "not compete with EVE" -- a game so incredibly different that they are literally in two different genres --  you're naive. Nevermind that Sony also dumped loads of money into trade show time for CCP. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, it was because they were invested and were trying to earn their return.

    I do my research. Do you?

     

    Then during your research you found that CCP wanted to do both XBox and PS3, but the XBox side didn't pan out, right?

     

    Yes. Just like other MMOs in the past. I didn't consider it relevant because the end result is still the same: PS3 exclusive.

    There was a lot of consternation with the Eve community over the PS3 choice.   CCP was very vocal about their problems with Microsoft, it was no secret to anyone.   I doubt Sony paid for any exclusivity, CCP was left with no choice which console it did the game for when Microsoft became reluctant to waive their restrictions.  You just assumed your facts when it is rather obvious to many of us that it was just not the case.  

     

     

  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    Originally posted by uidCaustic
    When they break down and realize console games have no lasting player base per game and bring it to PC, I'll worry about it then.

     

    CCP could patch it into the EVE client. That would require a little skill and work on their part, so likely beyond them for several years at least. But, ultimately this is what they really want with EVE. Point-and-click screensaver style space battles and a FPS on the planets. It's really logical guys, but, you just have to realise that CCP lack the skill to actually write that game now, so you have half of it on PC and the other half on console today. But, EVE players like being kicked in the face and robbed from their wallets, so they will play all of this now. Now, I am not writing that EVE/Dust players are just mindless gaming hipsters now am I? 

  • nathanknaacknathanknaack Level Designer - CCP Games Atlanta, GAPosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by uidCaustic
    When they break down and realize console games have no lasting player base per game and bring it to PC, I'll worry about it then.

     

    CCP could patch it into the EVE client. That would require a little skill and work on their part, so likely beyond them for several years at least. But, ultimately this is what they really want with EVE. Point-and-click screensaver style space battles and a FPS on the planets. It's really logical guys, but, you just have to realise that CCP lack the skill to actually write that game now, so you have half of it on PC and the other half on console today. But, EVE players like being kicked in the face and robbed from their wallets, so they will play all of this now. Now, I am not writing that EVE/Dust players are just mindless gaming hipsters now am I? 

    EVE and Dust use different game engines. To say that integrating them would only require a "little" skill and work is inaccurate to the point of almost being insulting. Are you insinuating that the reason they weren't provided in one package is due to lack of competence or diligence?

    The tone of your post seems to suggest that several other game studios have already created hybrid, cross-platform, multi-engine, multi-operating system, critically acclaimed MMOs. I think your information might be a "little" inaccurate. I wonder if you often criticize NASA for not doing the "little" extra work required to create faster-than-light spaceships by now.

    I know it looks easy from the outside, but remember that there are hundreds of talented people working on this stuff. To sit on your sofa and complain that it's not perfect, free, or built exactly to your personal taste is a bit juvenile, isn't it?

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    " It's a PS3 exclusive. In fairness, they probably got a boatload of money to make it that way. "

    That quote immediately told me that this guy rarely uses the internet search feature to research his articles so you can read what he writes with a skeptical eye.  Just for you edification Mr. Coke, the game was initially going to be on the xbox, but due to restrictions that CCP could not live with from Microsoft, was switched to the PS3.  They intentionally did not do a PC version because they did not want it conflicting with Eve.

    Anyone who follows Eve would know this, hence I really have to question your ability to be qualified to write this article at all.

    What the author did do, was point out the major problems with this game.  From a console player's perspective this is a poorly written FPS.  It is pay-to-win.  I am not sure why CCP decided they should get into the console business, but they should have hired some designers with console FPS experience.  They really need to change how they fund this game, as it stands I would never recommend it to anyone.

    So, let me get this straight, you're discrediting my article because of one tiny, almost indisputable line and using the other 90% to support your own argument? And you believe that because CCP didn't hop on a forum and spell out that Sony paid them that it didn't happen? Pull that blanket a little tighter over your head.

     

    I guarantee you Sony paid them for an exclusivity contract. It's how console exclusives work: Sony pays developers to make console exclusives because it helps them sell consoles.  The funding is why developer's agree to it because by tying themselves to a single platform, they limit their sales. Why would studios like Naughty Dog ever agree to console exclusivity otherwise? If you only pay attention to the MMO space, you may not know that, but if you seriously believe CCP is keeping DUST on PS3 to "not compete with EVE" -- a game so incredibly different that they are literally in two different genres --  you're naive. Nevermind that Sony also dumped loads of money into trade show time for CCP. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, it was because they were invested and were trying to earn their return.

     

    I do my research. Do you?

     
     

    Owned

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    " It's a PS3 exclusive. In fairness, they probably got a boatload of money to make it that way. "

    That quote immediately told me that this guy rarely uses the internet search feature to research his articles so you can read what he writes with a skeptical eye.  Just for you edification Mr. Coke, the game was initially going to be on the xbox, but due to restrictions that CCP could not live with from Microsoft, was switched to the PS3.  They intentionally did not do a PC version because they did not want it conflicting with Eve.

    Anyone who follows Eve would know this, hence I really have to question your ability to be qualified to write this article at all.

    What the author did do, was point out the major problems with this game.  From a console player's perspective this is a poorly written FPS.  It is pay-to-win.  I am not sure why CCP decided they should get into the console business, but they should have hired some designers with console FPS experience.  They really need to change how they fund this game, as it stands I would never recommend it to anyone.

    So, let me get this straight, you're discrediting my article because of one tiny, almost indisputable line and using the other 90% to support your own argument? And you believe that because CCP didn't hop on a forum and spell out that Sony paid them that it didn't happen? Pull that blanket a little tighter over your head.

    I guarantee you Sony paid them for an exclusivity contract. It's how console exclusives work: Sony pays developers to make console exclusives because it helps them sell consoles.  The funding is why developer's agree to it because by tying themselves to a single platform, they limit their sales. Why would studios like Naughty Dog ever agree to console exclusivity otherwise? If you only pay attention to the MMO space, you may not know that, but if you seriously believe CCP is keeping DUST on PS3 to "not compete with EVE" -- a game so incredibly different that they are literally in two different genres --  you're naive. Nevermind that Sony also dumped loads of money into trade show time for CCP. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, it was because they were invested and were trying to earn their return.

    I do my research. Do you?

     

    Then during your research you found that CCP wanted to do both XBox and PS3, but the XBox side didn't pan out, right?

     

    Yes. Just like other MMOs in the past. I didn't consider it relevant because the end result is still the same: PS3 exclusive.

    There was a lot of consternation with the Eve community over the PS3 choice.   CCP was very vocal about their problems with Microsoft, it was no secret to anyone.   I doubt Sony paid for any exclusivity, CCP was left with no choice which console it did the game for when Microsoft became reluctant to waive their restrictions.  You just assumed your facts when it is rather obvious to many of us that it was just not the case.  

    No, he is dead on. You are the one crawled up so far into your CCP fantasy world who believe everything CCP says as facts. They are not facts, it is just what CCP wants you to believe is facts.

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    " It's a PS3 exclusive. In fairness, they probably got a boatload of money to make it that way. "

    That quote immediately told me that this guy rarely uses the internet search feature to research his articles so you can read what he writes with a skeptical eye.  Just for you edification Mr. Coke, the game was initially going to be on the xbox, but due to restrictions that CCP could not live with from Microsoft, was switched to the PS3.  They intentionally did not do a PC version because they did not want it conflicting with Eve.

    Anyone who follows Eve would know this, hence I really have to question your ability to be qualified to write this article at all.

    What the author did do, was point out the major problems with this game.  From a console player's perspective this is a poorly written FPS.  It is pay-to-win.  I am not sure why CCP decided they should get into the console business, but they should have hired some designers with console FPS experience.  They really need to change how they fund this game, as it stands I would never recommend it to anyone.

    So, let me get this straight, you're discrediting my article because of one tiny, almost indisputable line and using the other 90% to support your own argument? And you believe that because CCP didn't hop on a forum and spell out that Sony paid them that it didn't happen? Pull that blanket a little tighter over your head.

     

    I guarantee you Sony paid them for an exclusivity contract. It's how console exclusives work: Sony pays developers to make console exclusives because it helps them sell consoles.  The funding is why developer's agree to it because by tying themselves to a single platform, they limit their sales. Why would studios like Naughty Dog ever agree to console exclusivity otherwise? If you only pay attention to the MMO space, you may not know that, but if you seriously believe CCP is keeping DUST on PS3 to "not compete with EVE" -- a game so incredibly different that they are literally in two different genres --  you're naive. Nevermind that Sony also dumped loads of money into trade show time for CCP. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, it was because they were invested and were trying to earn their return.

     

    I do my research. Do you?

     
     

    Sony should have played DUST before wasting money on its exclusivity.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    There was a lot of consternation with the Eve community over the PS3 choice.   CCP was very vocal about their problems with Microsoft, it was no secret to anyone.   I doubt Sony paid for any exclusivity, CCP was left with no choice which console it did the game for when Microsoft became reluctant to waive their restrictions.  You just assumed your facts when it is rather obvious to many of us that it was just not the case.  

    No, he is dead on. You are the one crawled up so far into your CCP fantasy world who believe everything CCP says as facts. They are not facts, it is just what CCP wants you to believe is facts.

     

    Oz, dude... bet you never thought you'd get accused of being a CCP fanboi, eh? :)

     

    Well, I guess there's a first time for everything!

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • GameByNightGameByNight Columnist / Podcast Host Rochester, NYPosts: 121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by GameByNight
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    " It's a PS3 exclusive. In fairness, they probably got a boatload of money to make it that way. "

    That quote immediately told me that this guy rarely uses the internet search feature to research his articles so you can read what he writes with a skeptical eye.  Just for you edification Mr. Coke, the game was initially going to be on the xbox, but due to restrictions that CCP could not live with from Microsoft, was switched to the PS3.  They intentionally did not do a PC version because they did not want it conflicting with Eve.

    Anyone who follows Eve would know this, hence I really have to question your ability to be qualified to write this article at all.

    What the author did do, was point out the major problems with this game.  From a console player's perspective this is a poorly written FPS.  It is pay-to-win.  I am not sure why CCP decided they should get into the console business, but they should have hired some designers with console FPS experience.  They really need to change how they fund this game, as it stands I would never recommend it to anyone.

    So, let me get this straight, you're discrediting my article because of one tiny, almost indisputable line and using the other 90% to support your own argument? And you believe that because CCP didn't hop on a forum and spell out that Sony paid them that it didn't happen? Pull that blanket a little tighter over your head.

    I guarantee you Sony paid them for an exclusivity contract. It's how console exclusives work: Sony pays developers to make console exclusives because it helps them sell consoles.  The funding is why developer's agree to it because by tying themselves to a single platform, they limit their sales. Why would studios like Naughty Dog ever agree to console exclusivity otherwise? If you only pay attention to the MMO space, you may not know that, but if you seriously believe CCP is keeping DUST on PS3 to "not compete with EVE" -- a game so incredibly different that they are literally in two different genres --  you're naive. Nevermind that Sony also dumped loads of money into trade show time for CCP. It wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts, it was because they were invested and were trying to earn their return.

    I do my research. Do you?

     

    Then during your research you found that CCP wanted to do both XBox and PS3, but the XBox side didn't pan out, right?

     

    Yes. Just like other MMOs in the past. I didn't consider it relevant because the end result is still the same: PS3 exclusive.

    There was a lot of consternation with the Eve community over the PS3 choice.   CCP was very vocal about their problems with Microsoft, it was no secret to anyone.   I doubt Sony paid for any exclusivity, CCP was left with no choice which console it did the game for when Microsoft became reluctant to waive their restrictions.  You just assumed your facts when it is rather obvious to many of us that it was just not the case.  

     

     

    I have already explained the massive, common sense-breaking flaw of your argument above. Just because CCP didn't say something doesn't mean that it didn't happen. We can talk about the route they took to land on the PS3 but it doesn't change the fact that it is officially a PS3 exclusive. Whether of not you choose to see that because "Something, Something, Xbox" doesn't change the fact that a "PS3 exclusive" is different than a game which simply releases on PS3. 

     

    Writer of the RPG Files
    Official Podcast Host
    Blogger at GameByNight.com

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon

    edit: nm. I'd rather not get Amana'd today. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • mazutmazut SofiaPosts: 884Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by uidCaustic
    When they break down and realize console games have no lasting player base per game and bring it to PC, I'll worry about it then.

    ^ enough said

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,146Member Uncommon
    Thanks for the writeup.

    image
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    I've played Eve Online since 2006.

     

    When DUST was announced several years ago, I realised they had made a massive mistake of epic proportions. Up until that point, CCP was doing superbly well - they were 2nd place to WoW in terms of popularity. If CCP had used all their profits to make Eve Online the best MMORPG in the world they could have done it without breaking into a sweat.

     

    Instead, they blew their profits to make 2 additional games (DUST and World of Darkness).

     

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    As a consequence, I think a new space game will soon be developed that will make Eve Online obsolite. CCP no longer have the resources or will to evolve.

     

    Eve Online and CCP are heading for extinction, the only question is will it be next year or in a few years time?

     

     

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I've played Eve Online since 2006.

     

    When DUST was announced several years ago, I realised they had made a massive mistake of epic proportions. Up until that point, CCP was doing superbly well - they were 2nd place to WoW in terms of popularity. If CCP had used all their profits to make Eve Online the best MMORPG in the world they could have done it without breaking into a sweat.

     

    Instead, they blew their profits to make 2 additional games (DUST and World of Darkness).

     

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    As a consequence, I think a new space game will soon be developed that will make Eve Online obsolite. CCP no longer have the resources or will to evolve.

     

    Eve Online and CCP are heading for extinction, the only question is will it be next year or in a few years time?

     

     

    i would have to imagine its more than just a few years, as i have yet to hear about any space game in development that is likely to be even a slight threat to Eve. Not that it couldnt happen, just that for the moment at least, there isnt anything on the horizon.image

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe ;)

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I've played Eve Online since 2006.

     

    When DUST was announced several years ago, I realised they had made a massive mistake of epic proportions. Up until that point, CCP was doing superbly well - they were 2nd place to WoW in terms of popularity. If CCP had used all their profits to make Eve Online the best MMORPG in the world they could have done it without breaking into a sweat.

     

    Instead, they blew their profits to make 2 additional games (DUST and World of Darkness).

     

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    As a consequence, I think a new space game will soon be developed that will make Eve Online obsolite. CCP no longer have the resources or will to evolve.

     

    Eve Online and CCP are heading for extinction, the only question is will it be next year or in a few years time?

     

     

    i would have to imagine its more than just a few years, as i have yet to hear about any space game in development that is likely to be even a slight threat to Eve. Not that it couldnt happen, just that for the moment at least, there isnt anything on the horizon.image

     guys guys 10 years* of continuous growth just proves that EVE is dying WAKE UP SHEEPLE

     

    Anyway. The Dust team are reluctantly and painfully being forced to learn the lessons that the EVE team learned a few years ago: in games of this type working with the community is utterly essential, no matter how annoying on inconvenient or ego-bruising it might be. Because the community are the game.

    The EVE team have internalised this fact, and EVE development is now proceeding faster than I have ever known it since I started playing. CCP have re-organised EVE's entire development organisation & process way from the old 'throwing "awesome" at the wall and seeing what sticks, then ignoring it anyway and moving on to the next new shiny' to what they have now which is an organised multi-year process built around a coherent theme.

    If and when the Dust team experience a similar "road to Damascus" moment and realise that DUST will only be worth anything to anyone if it's developed as "FPS-mode EVE" rather than "EVE-themed CoD", and react to change their development process accordingly, then we might get something useful and interesting and entertaining out of the project.

    For now it's probably best to pretend that DUST is still in open beta and check back in 6 months.

     

    *Admittedly you have to pick the yearly intervals quite carefully for this to be true, but "9 years of growth with 1 hiccup year in 2011" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I've played Eve Online since 2006.

     

    When DUST was announced several years ago, I realised they had made a massive mistake of epic proportions. Up until that point, CCP was doing superbly well - they were 2nd place to WoW in terms of popularity. If CCP had used all their profits to make Eve Online the best MMORPG in the world they could have done it without breaking into a sweat.

     

    Instead, they blew their profits to make 2 additional games (DUST and World of Darkness).

     

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    As a consequence, I think a new space game will soon be developed that will make Eve Online obsolite. CCP no longer have the resources or will to evolve.

     

    Eve Online and CCP are heading for extinction, the only question is will it be next year or in a few years time?

     

     

    i would have to imagine its more than just a few years, as i have yet to hear about any space game in development that is likely to be even a slight threat to Eve. Not that it couldnt happen, just that for the moment at least, there isnt anything on the horizon.image

     guys guys 10 years* of continuous growth just proves that EVE is dying WAKE UP SHEEPLE

     

    Anyway. The Dust team are reluctantly and painfully being forced to learn the lessons that the EVE team learned a few years ago: in games of this type working with the community is utterly essential, no matter how annoying on inconvenient or ego-bruising it might be. Because the community are the game.

    The EVE team have internalised this fact, and EVE development is now proceeding faster than I have ever known it since I started playing. CCP have re-organised EVE's entire development organisation & process way from the old 'throwing "awesome" at the wall and seeing what sticks, then ignoring it anyway and moving on to the next new shiny' to what they have now which is an organised multi-year process built around a coherent theme.

    If and when the Dust team experience a similar "road to Damascus" moment and realise that DUST will only be worth anything to anyone if it's developed as "FPS-mode EVE" rather than "EVE-themed CoD", and react to change their development process accordingly, then we might get something useful and interesting and entertaining out of the project.

    For now it's probably best to pretend that DUST is still in open beta and check back in 6 months.

     

    *Admittedly you have to pick the yearly intervals quite carefully for this to be true, but "9 years of growth with 1 hiccup year in 2011" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

    I don't agree that Eve Online's development is looking up.

     

    Where is your evidence for this?

     

    The last 'game changing' expansion pack was wormhole space and T3 - that was quite a few years ago.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Malcanis

     guys guys 10 years* of continuous growth just proves that EVE is dying WAKE UP SHEEPLE

    Anyway. The Dust team are reluctantly and painfully being forced to learn the lessons that the EVE team learned a few years ago: in games of this type working with the community is utterly essential, no matter how annoying on inconvenient or ego-bruising it might be. Because the community are the game.

    The EVE team have internalised this fact, and EVE development is now proceeding faster than I have ever known it since I started playing. CCP have re-organised EVE's entire development organisation & process way from the old 'throwing "awesome" at the wall and seeing what sticks, then ignoring it anyway and moving on to the next new shiny' to what they have now which is an organised multi-year process built around a coherent theme.

    If and when the Dust team experience a similar "road to Damascus" moment and realise that DUST will only be worth anything to anyone if it's developed as "FPS-mode EVE" rather than "EVE-themed CoD", and react to change their development process accordingly, then we might get something useful and interesting and entertaining out of the project.

    For now it's probably best to pretend that DUST is still in open beta and check back in 6 months.

     

    *Admittedly you have to pick the yearly intervals quite carefully for this to be true, but "9 years of growth with 1 hiccup year in 2011" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

    I don't agree that Eve Online's development is looking up.

    Where is your evidence for this?

    The last 'game changing' expansion pack was wormhole space and T3 - that was quite a few years ago.

    Malcanis is a member of the CSM, and a lot of the development ideas, as well as the development process, is shared with them in order to get their feedback. I was a big fan of the CSM when the idea was first introduced, and I'm really happy to see how it has evolved over the years. The introduction of the Council of Planetary Management was another huge step forward and I'm rather happy to see some of its members taking the bull by the horns and making sure it becomes an integral part of the evolution of DUST 514.

    There is no doubt that two-way communication with the community has been a big part of the success of EVE Online, and going that road with DUST 514 can only mean good things, as well.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I've played Eve Online since 2006.

     

    When DUST was announced several years ago, I realised they had made a massive mistake of epic proportions. Up until that point, CCP was doing superbly well - they were 2nd place to WoW in terms of popularity. If CCP had used all their profits to make Eve Online the best MMORPG in the world they could have done it without breaking into a sweat.

     

    Instead, they blew their profits to make 2 additional games (DUST and World of Darkness).

     

    It's clear that future 'expansions' to Eve will be nothing more than up-dates and tweaks - nothing will be groundbreaking.

     

    As a consequence, I think a new space game will soon be developed that will make Eve Online obsolite. CCP no longer have the resources or will to evolve.

     

    Eve Online and CCP are heading for extinction, the only question is will it be next year or in a few years time?

     

     

    i would have to imagine its more than just a few years, as i have yet to hear about any space game in development that is likely to be even a slight threat to Eve. Not that it couldnt happen, just that for the moment at least, there isnt anything on the horizon.image

     guys guys 10 years* of continuous growth just proves that EVE is dying WAKE UP SHEEPLE

     

    Anyway. The Dust team are reluctantly and painfully being forced to learn the lessons that the EVE team learned a few years ago: in games of this type working with the community is utterly essential, no matter how annoying on inconvenient or ego-bruising it might be. Because the community are the game.

    The EVE team have internalised this fact, and EVE development is now proceeding faster than I have ever known it since I started playing. CCP have re-organised EVE's entire development organisation & process way from the old 'throwing "awesome" at the wall and seeing what sticks, then ignoring it anyway and moving on to the next new shiny' to what they have now which is an organised multi-year process built around a coherent theme.

    If and when the Dust team experience a similar "road to Damascus" moment and realise that DUST will only be worth anything to anyone if it's developed as "FPS-mode EVE" rather than "EVE-themed CoD", and react to change their development process accordingly, then we might get something useful and interesting and entertaining out of the project.

    For now it's probably best to pretend that DUST is still in open beta and check back in 6 months.

     

    *Admittedly you have to pick the yearly intervals quite carefully for this to be true, but "9 years of growth with 1 hiccup year in 2011" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

    I don't agree that Eve Online's development is looking up.

     

    Where is your evidence for this?

     

    The last 'game changing' expansion pack was wormhole space and T3 - that was quite a few years ago.

    From CCP Seagull personally discussing the new development process and the things that she wants to achieve with it with us (She is "The Boss Of EVE" now), and her showing us the detailed development plan for the next ~24 months or so, and her taking the time to explain why she thought it was realistically deliverable with the resources she has available now.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

    Also CCP Unifex in his farewell stated that the Crucible -> Retribution period of his tenure was all about CCP catching up with the huge development backlog caused by underdeveloped "awesome", plus the literally hundreds of "little things" - each of which have to be coded, checked for balance implications and exploit potential, and tested, and which have caused a huge increase in the average EVE player's 'quality of life' - and laying a firm foundation for ambitious expansions to come.

    A process which we the EVE community literally begged CCP to undertake during the :18 months: period. "FIX YOUR F*CKING GAME, CCP" we yelled, "NO NEW SHINY" we demanded. Well they listened and they did it. Now they have big plans again.

     

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • angrist010angrist010 Seattle, WAPosts: 3Member

    """When I can empty an entire clip into an enemy only to have them kill me with two shots... that's a problem, even when playing with a squad."""

     

    Dust isn't very good BUT this is you missing your shots.

     

    The TimeToKill is pretty low even against vet players if you are hitting.

     

    Spray and Pray isn't the way to play ANY shooter.

     
  • apanz3rapanz3r BucurestiPosts: 259Member

    The mistake they did with dust was that they thinked that players will take same abuse like eve players.

    Guess what there are plenty of shoters and people refuse to  buy the ccp sh1t.

    Main reason eve growth in subscribtions was that you need AT LEAST 2 subscriptions to be able to play the game competitive(3-4 is also usual to dedicated playera).

     

    I am taking popcorn and watching the show when Star Citizen will become live(aka dust reloaded). In all the fairness I would probably play now and then eve if it would be free to play and would change the model from "second job b1atch" to "space explorer". 

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