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The population appears to be growing still.

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  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by caetftl

    I don't think you understand what growth means in a business sense.  Growth happens when you gained more business than you lost.  It is not independent from loss.

    Also can you go ahead and show me where I claimed 100% of sales are from the cash shop, since you accused me of making that claim?

    Then, if you want to talk about growth in that sense.

    The figure of '20% less profit than the quarter before' does not prove anything.

    It only shows that there have been sales.

    I didn't say you said 100% of sales were from cash shop, I'm saying that's the only way you could have 0 growth (Not taking into account loss, which we can't factor because neither of us know what it is) (and I was separating growth from loss because there are no figures to show players gained -minus players loss, so it wasn't useful to be talking about overall growth.  None of us here can prove it either way).

    My confusion is coming in because you are claiming 20% less sales = loss of players, when that isn't what it means at all.  It COULD mean that, but there are no guarantees, only guesses on your part.

    I can prove that sales have shrunk by 20%.  That is indicative of population decline not increase.

     

    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by caetftl

    Sales do not just mean box sales, sales include the cash shop.  Do you have any proof that they actually grew?  Any official numbers?  I have proof that sales across the board are down 20% for anet. 

     

    Interesting.

    So you're claiming that out of all the money they made, it was 100% cash shop the last quarter?

    They haven't sold a single box?

    It must be fascinating to live in your world. :)

     

    Can you please show me where i've claimed or indicated that the money they made was 100% from cash shop?

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by caetftl

    I can prove that sales have shrunk by 20%.  That is indicative of population decline not increase.

     

     

    How much clearer can it be that this is a line of complete troll crap?

    There's no direct connection between box sales and player retention. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by caetftl

    I can prove that sales have shrunk by 20%.  That is indicative of population decline not increase.

    No.  It isn't.

    That is indicative of a decline in the rate of population increase. :B

    The question then becomes 'does the decline in the rate of population increase mean that the rate of population decrease is now higher'.

    I don't know.

    You don't know.

    Arenanet knows, but they are coy and aren't going to tell us.

    If 100,000 people buy a Honda Civic.  Then next month, 80,000 people buy a Honda Civic.

    180,000 people now own Honda Civics.  This number is larger than 100,000.  It is also a 20% decrease in sales a month later.

    As you can see from this handy example, a 20% decrease in sales does not mean a population decline.  It is a change in the rate of population increase.

    In fact, it doesn't even necessarily mean that.  We can ASSUME that, but, watch as I do some magic.

    The game is 10% cheaper than it used to be.

    If people are spending less in the cash shop over the past 3 months.... combined with the game being 10% cheaper... that could mean that there are in fact more box sales this quarter, and therefore a higher rate of population increase.

    I find this unlikely, but it is =possible=, because we simply don't know.  I am just going with the odds when I am assuming that part of the 20% loss in revenue is a decrease in box sales.

    There are too many unknown variables though.

    All we can safely say is that there has been a 20% reduction in gross sales since the last quarter.  Indicating that there has been some sort of increase in the potential amount of GW2 players, with the actual amount of GW2 players an unknown quantity.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon

    I've no idea how can someone claim from GW2 sales that GW2 is winning or losing players.

    GW2 cash shop has no mandatory item that you have to buy monthly.

    I've spent most of my money during the first month, when I bought character slots and bank tabs. Nothing else in the cash shop is in the same league of must have as these things, especially for a player like me that plays tons of alts.

    So people that expect cash shop consumption to be constant and so an indicator of population are probably wrong.

    Additionally gems can be bought and spent much later - I have 3000 gems, some bought with money, some with in game money and 400 gems were anet reward.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

    image

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

    image

    You must have been very unlucky.

    Look a 5 people party in the starter area.

    That is generally dungeon party size, isn't it?

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

     

    FA? FA is one of the more populated servers, so no idea what was going on there or even if that was the right server. Huge WvW contingent there as well. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by caetftl

    I can prove that sales have shrunk by 20%.  That is indicative of population decline not increase.

     

     

    How much clearer can it be that this is a line of complete troll crap?

    There's no direct connection between box sales and player retention. 

    But we aren't just talking about box sales, we are talking about the demand of sales across the board... Sheesh... how much clearer can it be?

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

     

    FA? FA is one of the more populated servers, so no idea what was going on there or even if that was the right server. Huge WvW contingent there as well. 

    I only said what I experienced. Nothing more.

    image

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

     

    FA? FA is one of the more populated servers, so no idea what was going on there or even if that was the right server. Huge WvW contingent there as well. 

    I only said what I experienced. Nothing more.

    Apparently experiences in GW2 that don't paint the game in a pretty light don't count... but ones that do are absolute truth.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    A few weeks ago I went back to give GW2 another try and I started fresh.. The only time I saw people in the world was when certain events would activate and then everything was empty again. And this was the first 30 levels! I cant remember the server name. Fort Aspenwood maybe.

     

     

    FA? FA is one of the more populated servers, so no idea what was going on there or even if that was the right server. Huge WvW contingent there as well. 

    I only said what I experienced. Nothing more.

    Apparently experiences in GW2 that don't paint the game in a pretty light don't count... but ones that do are absolute truth.

    So what is the point of the poster - whenever there was an event people were there.

    Does the poster need  cheerleaders to follow him while he level up his character?

    And what is the point of expressions like "and then everything was empty again"?

    It is a stupid hyperbole.

    Everyone that plays the game knows you don't have people in your view 24/7. They also know that even in the most remote areas suddenly you have 4 or 5 people playing alongside you.

    Everyone that played other games also know that when you are doing quests in those other games, most of the time you are solo and when you see other people you wish they weren't there tagging the mobs you need to complete your quest.

    GW2 seems to be the only game that if you aren't surrounded by a mob 24/7 it is empty and if you are surrounded by a mob 24/7 "it is a boring zerg fest".

    So when people make start making balanced posts instead of hyperbole their experiences will count.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Hmm...really not sure how can to any1 appear population is still growing. For larger scale content is hard to find any1 around for some time. But is summer maybe this influences a lot. Have been playing 3 games alternating even on daily basis (doing this in summer for years, not sure why, it just suits me to play relaxed more games), swtor, wow and gw2. Game that has (at least on my pve server) at any time players around in any area is swtor, wow and gw2 much less.
  • Slappy1Slappy1 columbus, OHPosts: 458Member

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

    Arya Stark

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    I'm not sure what you mean by damage control.  I see people here showing proof with screenshots that the population isn't dead as some others in here are claiming it to be.

    You claim all these statements, but you don't give links to quotes or facts.  Even wikipedia is more accurate than you.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    That's why post like this is pointless.

    How do you know population is dropping just because Q2 sale drop?  Maybe it is just less people buying box since everyone who want to play already bought the game. 

    How do you know less people using the cashshop means less people playing?  There isn't even direct colloration.  Maybe every high payer already "bought their legendary with real cash".  So they won't be spending more real money. 

    Am I suppose to be happy GW2 have high cashshop sells?  That means GW2 is a heavily cash shop dependent pay to win game right?

    How do you know other server population increase just because there is 4 full server.  Maybe everyone transfered to those tier1 server, and leave behind a bunch of empty one.

    How do you know population decrease just because your server is empty?  Maybe it is just your server, and other server are fine.  Maybe people start having senses and desert those low pop server for higher one.

    How do you even know the top server increase their population cap.  Maybe their population actually decrease so Anet opened for more people to join.

    How do you know there is even a population cap. There is overflow rememeber?  What's the point of caping it, they actually having technicle problem?  Or they just cap it so not everyone won't flood 1 server and leave the other server empty.

    How do you know Anet hiering means GW2 is doing well.  Maybe they want to hier better people and cut of the bad people.  Maybe it is just for PR. 

    And how do you know more GW2 staff, means GW2 is doing good.  Maybe those are all staff prepared for GW2 china release, and won't help the US server in anyway.

    If people actually think its already super easy to estimate GW2 population.  There is actually a good matrix for it.  But people just don't think.  It is definately not 2.5 million.  ANd GW2 surely isn't dieing.  Because how can a top 5 western mmorpg be called dieing.  You might as well call every single mmorpg dead.(well except wow, and maybe eve, not that eve have that many players, but it is the highest for sandbox).

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

    You want to know the truth, Those thing beside server listing means precisely nothing.  And it will always remain nothing unless Anet disclose the truth.

    And why won't Anet disclose the truth?  Because of people like caetftl.  They want to nit picking on anything.

    If GW2 is so bad, how many better games are out there?  Thats the truth right?  There isn't even that many mmorpg with higher population than GW2.  Not only that GW2 is B2P.  Suddenly a very bargain game for people without that much money get dumped down just because they loss 20% sales.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon

    Yeah it is so hard to find people.

    image

    image

    image

    There is people everywhere but if you really want to see people go to:

    WvW, Crown Pavillion, Orr, Queensdale, Frostegorge Sound, any place with a World Boss event.

    Feel free to post your screenshots.

    I still don't see how people reconcile the critics that everything is a big zerg and everything is empty, but whatever. 

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    Well according to press releases and financial statements, after the initial sales Lineage 2 is outselling GW2 in Asian Markets and GW2 sales dropped so much in NM that L2 also is making more profit than GW2. Lets see L2 has a population of  a little under a million players. So let me take a wild guess and say GW2 is dealing with less than half that. 
  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

    You want to know the truth, Those thing beside server listing means precisely nothing.  And it will always remain nothing unless Anet disclose the truth.

    And why won't Anet disclose the truth?  Because of people like caetftl.  They want to nit picking on anything.

    If GW2 is so bad, how many better games are out there?  Thats the truth right?  There isn't even that many mmorpg with higher population than GW2.  Not only that GW2 is B2P.  Suddenly a very bargain game for people without that much money get dumped down just because they loss 20% sales.

    Actually they don't disclose the truth, because they aren't honest.  They would like to manipulate things, and make carefully worded statements (intended to mislead) to make their game look better than it is, so that more people give them money.  They did this on the chinese website (native speakers pointed out how misleading it was in how it was worded) and they did it with the manifesto.

    You can tell when a game is doing well, because for them honesty actually helps them grow.  Just look at league of legends, it is more than happy to tell you how many active players/accounts it has, because all of the stats are superb. 

    Anet knows they can't be transparent, because things aren't as great as they project... the moment they start giving real numbers, it starts making it easy to paint a picture on how the game is doing. 

    I can tell you that sales dropping by 20% is NEVER a good thing, it is NEVER a sign that things are improving. 

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Faelsun
    Well according to press releases and financial statements, after the initial sales Lineage 2 is outselling GW2 in Asian Markets and GW2 sales dropped so much in NM that L2 also is making more profit than GW2. Lets see L2 has a population of  a little under a million players. So let me take a wild guess and say GW2 is dealing with less than half that. 

    Uh.

    GW2 isn't being sold in Asian markets at all.  EVERY game that's being sold in Asian markets is outselling GW2 there. :B

    Also, Lineage and LIneage 2 aren't actually the same game.  Lineage is the one that has more total sales than GW2.  It is the biggest MMORPG in Korea, and a big game in Asia in general. 

    If it's true that Lineage 2 has a population of a little under a million players, using your own math, GW2's profits of over double means that GW2 would be dealing with around 2 million players.  I find that math dubious anyway since they're not using the same kind of pricing model, but hey.  That was YOUR logic, not mine. :)

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,829Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

    You want to know the truth, Those thing beside server listing means precisely nothing.  And it will always remain nothing unless Anet disclose the truth.

    And why won't Anet disclose the truth?  Because of people like caetftl.  They want to nit picking on anything.

    If GW2 is so bad, how many better games are out there?  Thats the truth right?  There isn't even that many mmorpg with higher population than GW2.  Not only that GW2 is B2P.  Suddenly a very bargain game for people without that much money get dumped down just because they loss 20% sales.

    Actually they don't disclose the truth, because they aren't honest.  They would like to manipulate things, and make carefully worded statements (intended to mislead) to make their game look better than it is, so that more people give them money.  They did this on the chinese website (native speakers pointed out how misleading it was in how it was worded) and they did it with the manifesto.

    You can tell when a game is doing well, because for them honesty actually helps them grow.  Just look at league of legends, it is more than happy to tell you how many active players/accounts it has, because all of the stats are superb. 

    Anet knows they can't be transparent, because things aren't as great as they project... the moment they start giving real numbers, it starts making it easy to paint a picture on how the game is doing. 

    I can tell you that sales dropping by 20% is NEVER a good thing, it is NEVER a sign that things are improving. 

    But what does sales have to do with player population in a game you can play for free once you bought the game?

    It was the Chinese company that made that up, not Arenanet.

    I'm sorry for all the honest Chinese out there, but it seems some Chinese companies do everything.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/-chinese-zoo-tries-passing-dog-off-as-lion--180952559.html

    Chinese zoo tries passing off dog as an 'African lion'

     

    Officials at a Chinese zoo attempted to pass off this Tibetan mastiff as an African lion (AFP)

     

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

    You want to know the truth, Those thing beside server listing means precisely nothing.  And it will always remain nothing unless Anet disclose the truth.

    And why won't Anet disclose the truth?  Because of people like caetftl.  They want to nit picking on anything.

    If GW2 is so bad, how many better games are out there?  Thats the truth right?  There isn't even that many mmorpg with higher population than GW2.  Not only that GW2 is B2P.  Suddenly a very bargain game for people without that much money get dumped down just because they loss 20% sales.

    Actually they don't disclose the truth, because they aren't honest.  They would like to manipulate things, and make carefully worded statements (intended to mislead) to make their game look better than it is, so that more people give them money.  They did this on the chinese website (native speakers pointed out how misleading it was in how it was worded) and they did it with the manifesto.

    You can tell when a game is doing well, because for them honesty actually helps them grow.  Just look at league of legends, it is more than happy to tell you how many active players/accounts it has, because all of the stats are superb. 

    Anet knows they can't be transparent, because things aren't as great as they project... the moment they start giving real numbers, it starts making it easy to paint a picture on how the game is doing. 

    I can tell you that sales dropping by 20% is NEVER a good thing, it is NEVER a sign that things are improving. 

    But what does sales have to do with player population in a game you can play for free once you bought the game?

    It was the Chinese company that made that up, not Arenanet.

    I'm sorry for all the honest Chinese out there, but it seems some Chinese companies do everything.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/-chinese-zoo-tries-passing-dog-off-as-lion--180952559.html

    Chinese zoo tries passing off dog as an 'African lion'

     

    Officials at a Chinese zoo attempted to pass off this Tibetan mastiff as an African lion (AFP)

     

     

    It was the chinese publisher of GW2, people that anet are in business with, people that are directly tied to the chinese release of gw2.  The 2.5million logins a week was very telling though... based on common mmo habits that puts the game at approximately 300-600k active players, which basically matches up with what my sources have told me. 

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,782Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by laokoko
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    All I'm seeing here is damage control by the same people

    The numbers are out and they were worded to give GW2 a sales number advantage.WoW sold more in 8 month's in a time that had less than a quarter of the people playing mmo's as today

    The server capacity can be lowered just as easily as raised.You have proof they continue too raise them?

    It's been known for like over 6 month's that servers show a total of the the characters on that server,not just logged in,Anet said it a long time ago in the forums.

    But yea,let's just keep spewing this pro GW2 propaganda too try and keep the game in the headlines.

     

    Nice try!

    You make a very good point, I actually remember them talking about servers showing total characters and not just logged on.

    Why don't you two find a link and quote, so we can all see it.  Then this issue will be settled.

    You want to know the truth, Those thing beside server listing means precisely nothing.  And it will always remain nothing unless Anet disclose the truth.

    And why won't Anet disclose the truth?  Because of people like caetftl.  They want to nit picking on anything.

    If GW2 is so bad, how many better games are out there?  Thats the truth right?  There isn't even that many mmorpg with higher population than GW2.  Not only that GW2 is B2P.  Suddenly a very bargain game for people without that much money get dumped down just because they loss 20% sales.

    Actually they don't disclose the truth, because they aren't honest.  They would like to manipulate things, and make carefully worded statements (intended to mislead) to make their game look better than it is, so that more people give them money.  They did this on the chinese website (native speakers pointed out how misleading it was in how it was worded) and they did it with the manifesto.

    You can tell when a game is doing well, because for them honesty actually helps them grow.  Just look at league of legends, it is more than happy to tell you how many active players/accounts it has, because all of the stats are superb. 

    Anet knows they can't be transparent, because things aren't as great as they project... the moment they start giving real numbers, it starts making it easy to paint a picture on how the game is doing. 

    I can tell you that sales dropping by 20% is NEVER a good thing, it is NEVER a sign that things are improving. 

    Of course "sales" are going to drop, the box isn't selling as much. Profit is what counts and that comes from folks playing and buying in the trading post. The company is doing very well without having to let any employees go after the first year. That is pretty much unheard of in the industry. That fact alone means that someone is making money enough to pay the bills, and keep employees and fans happy. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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