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So lets talk about this LIMITED ACTON BAR OF 8 SKILLS!!!!!! Just freakin 8 skills!!!!

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Comments

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member


    Originally posted by Morclave

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Morclave

        stuff
    more stuff
      TL:DR; My way is better than yours.
     

    Our experiences in GW2 couldn't be further from different. I would COMPLETELY agree that any fight with more than 3 people on each side *can* get into a spam-fest depending upon the class, more often than not that wasn't the case at all.

    You are right, you can do mediocre and get wins just mashing buttons and having a decent class to fall back on. Guardian or Bunker Engineers prove this quite well, to contrast this, though, when you meet someone that is very skilled and knows their opponents you know it. It's shockingly painful and, imo, quite gratifying knowing that this level of depth exists.

    I do agree that I'm being optimistic when I hope that they make the classes and abilities good enough to make it a meaningful and challenging decision. I'm confident that with their experience they can do this. Will there be cookie-cutter builds? Of course! As long as those aren't the only viable builds than I really don't care. IMO there are FAR more opportunities with a limited 8-power system than there are with no limits. With no limits you really are stuck with just your talents/gear and cookie-cutter has so much more meaning because EVERY "Thief" is the same, every "Cleric" is the same, every "Warrior" is the same, but if I have 50-60 abilities to choose from and they are all viable and competitive then the fun really begins!

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by frizzlepickle
    Originally posted by Lidane
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Okay.

    So in EQNext the action bar system will be using a limited design to force builds between combat.

     

    4,,, yes I said 4,,, will be weapon skills

     

    And 4,,, yes again I said 4,,,, will be class utilities.

     

    So that's a total of 8 skills at a time.

    So in other words, it's like EQ1. I clearly remember haivng only 8 slots to work with back then. It forced me to make choices and decide which skills and spells were the most valuable for whatever I was doing at the time.

    What's the problem again?

    They won't listen. Their tiny little WoW brains just can't comprehend why actually having to plan ahead is harder than just spamming a rotation.

     Well, to be fair, unless they change something, EQ1 you had 8 spell gems, then you had you numbered skill pad for emotes, kicks, attack, taunt and such, and in EQN you had 4 slots for class skills as a caster, and then 4 slots for a weapon....So potentially, you have from their demo probably the energy or whatever they use to cast damage, 2 damage spells, 1 defense and 1 misc/situational spell....Even if you could support it, say 3 damage spells, if you would be allowed, the system is still a little vague on how much you can customize.

     

    So if you were a dps caster you have probably 2 spells for damage, and then 4 weapon skills....The million dollar question is, say as a wizard, if you wield a staff, how many of these weapon skills will actually be melee attacks/blocks, and will their be any offensive or defensive spells tied to your melee weapon that you can channel as a caster.  If they don't have a attack that is like a 'free' ability that can be used while you wait for mana or stamina or whatever will be the commodity they use, and you actually have to melee to be effective, that is crap imo.  I do not play a offensive dps caster to be melee.

     

    So I see if you are pessimistic you have 2 offensive abilities without having to melee, and if you think everything will be grand, you will have probably 5-6, with the other 2-3 being situational defense or movement.  I hope for the grand, as 2 offensive skills, and me actually having to stand in melee range as a wizard if I was playing one is not appealing...I would just make a melee class of some type if I have to melee to max out my dps.

     

    So yes, EQ had 8 spell gems, but they also had abilities not tied to the spell gems, and you had access to picking all 8, now you can pick 4 (and it seems to have limitations), and then a weapon that gives you a fixed 4.  If they just had 8, and got rid of this 4 abilities tied to a weapon, I think people would be more open it...I think it is here to stay though, and it comes down to how they make these weapon skills change for classes....Does a wizard with a staff have the same weapon abilities as a warrior, meaning probably that it becomes my pessimistic view of abilities, and not the grand.

     

  • hraethhraeth Hillsboro, ORPosts: 34Member
    In general I hated the GW2 model of weapon abilities + class abilities.  In specific I believe that my dislike was largely based on the weapon abilities not having much synergy with each other and with my class abilities.  Because I believe my dislike was based on a specific problem I have some hope that EQN can resolve the problem by carefully planning their weapon abilities to synergize with each other well.  That being said I also want to feel like I need to choose between abilities and not just spam out a rotation over and over.  They talked about the League of Legends model a bit in the classes panel and I'm kind of hoping we get a modifiable 8 button LoL feeling to our weapon and class abilities.  Being required to make strategic choices based off of quick analysis of the situation and making it feel like those strategic decisions made a difference could make the difference between an epic 8 button adventure and a tired old rotation at the end of which mobs are dead.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    The Secret World has 8 skills w/ 8 passives, I didn't hear anybody complaining how it was made for console. Can you drama queens pull your skirts down and stop this? Worst, worst WORST community ever.  You people are fucking miserable, yet you refuse to go play whatever old game with 30 skills on the screen and macros that makes you happy.

     

  • MorclaveMorclave Arkadelphia, ARPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by ego13

     


    Originally posted by Morclave

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Morclave

        stuff
    more stuff
      TL:DR; My way is better than yours.
     

     

    Our experiences in GW2 couldn't be further from different. I would COMPLETELY agree that any fight with more than 3 people on each side *can* get into a spam-fest depending upon the class, more often than not that wasn't the case at all.

    You are right, you can do mediocre and get wins just mashing buttons and having a decent class to fall back on. Guardian or Bunker Engineers prove this quite well, to contrast this, though, when you meet someone that is very skilled and knows their opponents you know it. It's shockingly painful and, imo, quite gratifying knowing that this level of depth exists.

    I do agree that I'm being optimistic when I hope that they make the classes and abilities good enough to make it a meaningful and challenging decision. I'm confident that with their experience they can do this. Will there be cookie-cutter builds? Of course! As long as those aren't the only viable builds than I really don't care. IMO there are FAR more opportunities with a limited 8-power system than there are with no limits. With no limits you really are stuck with just your talents/gear and cookie-cutter has so much more meaning because EVERY "Thief" is the same, every "Cleric" is the same, every "Warrior" is the same, but if I have 50-60 abilities to choose from and they are all viable and competitive then the fun really begins!

     

         I agree as well, you are being quite optimistic.  You see, it is the difference of perspective on a gaming company who has destroyed numerous titles, without notable redemption, arguing "Well, they have lots of mistakes to learn from and will do well!" or "Well, they have made lots of mistakes and are likely to continue making them (unless better advised)."  You are the former, and I the latter.  I am a realist to the bitter end and will always look to the past for the future.  As Marx showed, history often repeats itself.

     

         If my posts are too long to read, I request that individuals do not respond to them.  If they are too complex or contrary to receive as anything other than "I respect other opinions, but think it would be wise to consider X or Y," I request that individuals do not oversimplify them, especially incorrectly.  Though, I will politely acknowledge that it may be partially my fault due to wording.  I, at no point, allude to my 'ways' being "better than everyone else's."  I do, however, produce the argument that fewer buttons reduce variance between competence.  It reduces the margin of error significantly, if not exponentially based on how competent fingers are, and increases margin of success for the erroneous.  But my argument was ignored and seemingly lumped into some strange take on elitism.

     

         In closing and regards to GW2.  It should not surprise you that depth exists within GW2's combat system.  Rather, it should be glaringly obvious and punch you in the fucking nose.  The fact that it is subtle and does not is my exactly problem with it, because it really should be readily apparent.  One should not be able to effectively top the chart with face-rolling and good movement (sidenote: Engineers were regarded as one of the worst classes, it is fun to hear you say that they were decent.  I played a potion and bleed build post-nerf and was highly successful).  One should have to be relatively competent and skillful with their chosen class to flourish, which is most peoples' chief complaint with modern day WoW, and a number of other MMOs on the market.  This supposed depth that is elusive to so many people is exactly what worries me about EQN's forthcoming combat system, and is a valid concern.  That is not to say that it is definitively how it is going to be, but it is important that it is vocalized to reduce irrational hype based on contrary evidence.  Thus far it sounds a lot like Guild Wars 2 with exuberant amounts of AoE, meaning I may not even have to look at my screen to know that I am making contact with the enemy.  I am certain plenty of people love that aspect and imagine that it will be like God of War - but I have reason to doubt it.

    Always a pleasure.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    The Secret World has 8 skills w/ 8 passives, I didn't hear anybody complaining how it was made for console. Can you drama queens pull your skirts down and stop this? Worst, worst WORST community ever.  You people are fucking miserable, yet you refuse to go play whatever old game with 30 skills on the screen and macros that makes you happy.

     

    I can't stand how TSW was made originally for consoles.

     

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    GW1 had only 8 skills and had more tactical combat than most MMOs can even dream of, not to mention the best PvP around.
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xthos
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    The Secret World has 8 skills w/ 8 passives, I didn't hear anybody complaining how it was made for console. Can you drama queens pull your skirts down and stop this? Worst, worst WORST community ever.  You people are fucking miserable, yet you refuse to go play whatever old game with 30 skills on the screen and macros that makes you happy.

     

    I can't stand how TSW was made originally for consoles.

     

    Making it for consoles is still no excuse to blame it on since you can have way more skills than 8 even if you designed it based on gamepad.  Final Fantasy XIV for example can have up to 32 active skills slotted on gamepad. The new Devil May Cry has 51 total active skills (actually way more if you count the none weapon skills) and no hotbar required to do any of them. http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2013/01/15/dmc-devil-may-cry-move-list.htm#rebellion

    Are you gonna use the console excuse for GW2 and Neverwinter too? 

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Xthos
    Originally posted by FlyByKnight

    The Secret World has 8 skills w/ 8 passives, I didn't hear anybody complaining how it was made for console. Can you drama queens pull your skirts down and stop this? Worst, worst WORST community ever.  You people are fucking miserable, yet you refuse to go play whatever old game with 30 skills on the screen and macros that makes you happy.

     

    I can't stand how TSW was made originally for consoles.

     

    Making it for consoles is still no excuse to blame it on since you can have way more skills than 8 even if you designed it based on gamepad.  Final Fantasy XIV for example can have up to 32 active skills slotted on gamepad. The new Devil May Cry has 51 total active skills (actually way more if you count the none weapon skills) and no hotbar required to do any of them. http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2013/01/15/dmc-devil-may-cry-move-list.htm#rebellion

    Are you gonna use the console excuse for GW2 and Neverwinter too? 

    I really think you are responding to a sarcastic post...look at what he was responding to...

  • solarbear88solarbear88 BathurstPosts: 73Member
    GW2 combat was too simplified for my liking. It seemed to copy from Moba games. Well fights in Moba games last a few seconds while many encounters in a MMO last minutes. This combat just didn't work for a lot of poeple. Fire off your skills then watch CD. It was boring. My class was very restrictive and often only had one way of dealing with the tougher mobs. My CD'were long and I was often just autoattacking.

    I am hoping EQNext will be more like GW1 than GW2.

    Even if it was going to be a lot like GW2
    Adding both block and dodge skills could make it more complex
    Furthermore you could have non-hotbar buffs to tinker with.

    They haven't really revealed much but I can see many ways for this to work better than GW2.
  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by vorpal28
    original EQ had limited slots to, it forced you to make choices and oh wow maybe have some skill at playing...

    LAS has nothing to do with skill sir.

    it has everything to do with skill... You're limited in your choice of skills thus you have less options to choose from when in combat so in order to get the most out of your skills you have to learn how to combine spells in different situations.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vorpal28
    original EQ had limited slots to, it forced you to make choices and oh wow maybe have some skill at playing...

     

     

    Go play EQ1 and tell me about the "limited choices you have" My necro has about 4 hot bars full of abilities.

  • tazarconantazarconan athensPosts: 1,013Member

    Skyrim which has one of the most enjoyable combat, doesnt have skill bars at all just some power attacks when u hold down left mouse button,but every simple swing has a meaning depending on timing, positioning,reaction on enemy movement etc. Yes skyrim is action combat style ofc while the casual mmo's out there use auto attacks and player use some skills to break the routine ,allright.

    Even so though if devs decide to make the combat look like lets say a nice horography of attacks parries,blocks,special animations that occur on hit,even auto-attacks could have a whole differrent meaning as u watch the combat goes on and with addition of just a few skills (an 8 skill bar) it could work even more better. Allthough i dont know if that be the case with EQ Next ,dont know what they did so far with combat and how they plan to have it on launch day.

  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tazarconan

    Skyrim which has one of the most enjoyable combat, doesnt have skill bars at all just some power attacks when u hold down left mouse button,but every simple swing has a meaning depending on timing, positioning,reaction on enemy movement etc. Yes skyrim is action combat style ofc while the casual mmo's out there use auto attacks and player use some skills to break the routine ,allright.

    Even so though if devs decide to make the combat look like lets say a nice horography of attacks parries,blocks,special animations that occur on hit,even auto-attacks could have a whole differrent meaning as u watch the combat goes on and with addition of just a few skills (an 8 skill bar) it could work even more better. Allthough i dont know if that be the case with EQ Next ,dont know what they did so far with combat and how they plan to have it on launch day.

     

    Combat is the worst part of skyrim.

  • tazarconantazarconan athensPosts: 1,013Member
    Originally posted by Vutar
    Originally posted by tazarconan

    Skyrim which has one of the most enjoyable combat, doesnt have skill bars at all just some power attacks when u hold down left mouse button,but every simple swing has a meaning depending on timing, positioning,reaction on enemy movement etc. Yes skyrim is action combat style ofc while the casual mmo's out there use auto attacks and player use some skills to break the routine ,allright.

    Even so though if devs decide to make the combat look like lets say a nice horography of attacks parries,blocks,special animations that occur on hit,even auto-attacks could have a whole differrent meaning as u watch the combat goes on and with addition of just a few skills (an 8 skill bar) it could work even more better. Allthough i dont know if that be the case with EQ Next ,dont know what they did so far with combat and how they plan to have it on launch day.

     

    Combat is the worst part of skyrim.

    I could find u couple of million ppl that disagree with you but thats not the point. Specifically in skyrim few players use the vanilla skyrim combat system since the majority either use Tendo's Skyrim redone (Skyre) which takes the combat system into a whole new diverse level, or arso ,pise etc etc. If u dont like in general manual combat systems thats ok every player has his own unique taste of what is ideal for him anwy.

  • drakaenadrakaena Posts: 488Member Uncommon
    Here is the thing about games that offer a bunch of bindable abilities.. macros. The best rotations will be min/max into a 2 or 3 button macro. Now my math isn't great but that is less than 8. See Rift after release. Combat devolved into macro chains. Now you have a choice of offering Macro customizing into the UI which will inevitably simplify combat or not add it and give those with the know-how a decisive advantage when they use third-party programs to macro chains. 
  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon

    Limited skills sets seem to be the wave of the future.

    I don't mind either way as most games with an abundance of skills I don't even use half of em or if I do the UI is so cluttered that it gets hard to do anything but constantly watch your hotbars.........

  • SephastusSephastus New Brunswick, NJPosts: 448Member Uncommon

    This is still going? Amount of buttons has nothing to do with the gameplay, or fun - factor of a game. Specially since we have not seen the system in play! Mario bros. started with 2 buttons, and it was revolutionary. Modern Console games have very few buttons, and yet they are still very enjoyable. Even tons of the current MMOs out there have a small subset of their buttons that are used, while the rest of them are buffs and very situational.

     

    If you believe that amount of buttons is a direct correlation to the amount of fun a game has, you are sadly mistaken.

     

    Now, if you try to make the argument, that it is SKILLS that you are looking into, then I don't see the problem either: 40 Classes each with 5 tiers and at least one skill per tier = 200+ possible skills per character... that is more than most games out there. So your point is void.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Morclave
     

         I could easily present the counterargument that those approaching this system positively are making an erroneously optimistic judgment about the system before they, too, have ever played it.  We only have what information they have given us and a humble request not to compare it to Guild Wars 2 (acknowledgement of informational similarity).  I place a lot of hope in this new system, but there are logistical concerns based on Guild Wars 2's new system, which closely resembles all of the information SOE has released thus far.  Voicing them are not a sin, nor is pretending that they do not exist, but pretending things are grand lacks the potential to be beneficial.  I would strongly prefer that SOE come out and acknowledge the concerns, rather than go "well, we can do whatever we want everyone clearly loves whatever ideas we shit out."  After all, I am the consumer.  You may be, too.

     

         But since you asked why I, personally, think it would be better to have more skills - even though I offer an example of this in my original post, which I request kindly that you read - I will gladly try to give you an additional reason.  The original post is quoted just above, feel free to tinker with it at your leisure.  I have a history of prowess within MMORPGs, notably in regards PvP.  This changed for the first time when I played Guild Wars 2 and realized that I was just as effective not bothering to watch my opponent's attacks and focus on my own cooldowns and movements.  Frankly, I was still grand, probably due to years of quick reacting - I topped the charts in every BG that I entered and was more than apt to handle 1v3s (I played an Engineer).  When I handled a 1v3 on WoW, DAoC, or Tera, I always felt rather accomplished and proud of myself.  In GW2 I did not, I felt like I mashed buttons better than they did and got lucky with motion.  I fear that will spill over in EQN, and leave me unhappy - "selfish," I'm sure.  But if I did not want something I enjoyed, I would not have looked so forward to EQN for the past four years, I would have sat on GW2 and said "it'll never be as good as this."  I never had any clever tricks to pull, no brilliant spell reflections, no trinkets or gadgets that lined up perfectly.  Frankly, I gave not a single fuck what skills my enemy was using because they largely all looked the same and did not really matter - my face-roll and move effectively strategy reigned supreme.  I dueled, I battlegrounded, I even did ranked things from time to time.  It was not slow paced and thought provoking or strategic, it was a rush of quick shooting and rolling around.  May the best button masher and running win.  I disliked that, a lot.

     

        If you think that is great gameplay, I wholly support your right to an opinion.  However, I respectfully disagree and think a small skill-set is overly limiting by comparison.  I linked a favorite old video from earlier WoW, which demonstrates the power in having a large arsenal with which to handle everything uniquely at your fingertips (though, I feel the need to put forth the argument that as WoW progressed and more buttons were added, they reduced it to many fewer in an actual rotation, resulting in the skill-less button mashing seen today).  With eight buttons, that video would not have been nearly as amusing and he would have more than likely perished numerous times, as would I were I in his shoes.  Ultimately it boils down to having fewer ways to be good and fewer ways to make mistakes, placing great players and horrendous players on a relatively small disparity of skill.  That, specifically, is what bothers me.

     

         This is not about the ability to strike the one key when "1" pops up on screen.  I have trained cats to do that.  This is about hitting the "1" button when it would be intelligent to in the fight.  Giving idiot Joe a multiple choice test where he has 8 choices versus giving him one with 20 enables him a significantly higher chance of hitting the right button because his finger is too fat for his keyboard than because he is intelligent and chose it because the guy in front was casting Ice Blast and he wanted to Spell Reflect it.

     

         Onwards.  Players will always min/max, I am not presenting an argument that that is a bad thing.  After all, I certainly do it, but within the confines and restrictions that I am given.  The problem that I have with it is more related to multi-classing than it is to the skill-set, hence why I drop off my argument there and use it primarily as an example.  Naturally, if everyone can switch to the skillset that is optimal at the time, people will.  EQN allows that, and it makes me not look forward to the 80,000 teleporting Ranger war that is to come.  The reason I use this example is to relate to my above paragraph, in which more skills allow discrepancy between the better teleporting Ranger due to a higher level of being error-prone and a higher level of reactionary eloquence.

    I disagree with your opinion that having the ability to counter everything is skillful. I think it is more skillful to be limited and still have the ability to counter everything.

    To me, having more buttons is like having all the answers to a test. That's not a challenge, I already know what to use, I have all the tools at my disposal and there's nothing you can do that I don't have a counter for. The only problem now is, how fast can i press the button?

    In games with limited skill-bars, the selection of skills is a meta-game unto itself. Because you don't have all the answers (or you can't actually fit all the answers into one bar) you have to actively try to create something that has most or one of the answers.

    Yes, the learning curve for the average individual is definitely steeper with a 20-slot skill bar and therefore the gap between an experienced player and the average joe is a lot larger. But the only difference between a 20-slot skill bar and an 8 slot is how fast the average joe can learn what to use and when to use it and I'm guessing you want that gap to remain lengthy so that you can keep seeing yourself as better than others. And to be frank, I can't really argue against that. We all want to see ourselves as above other people in some shape or form.

    I don't mind the 20 slot skill bar. I just don't think that your points towards their inclusion versus the 8 slot skill bar are anything but personal preference.

    This is not a game.

  • ExiledTyrantExiledTyrant nowhere news, WYPosts: 69Member

    Let's just dispell this game pad crap right here.

    this is a free program called motion joy : http://www.motioninjoy.com/

    Motion joy allows me to map any key I want to anywhere I want within the limits of a ps3  controller, from keyboard emulation, mouse emulation, and 1st-3rd generation Playstation/Xbox controllers.

    Tera allowed for the flexibility of 32 different abilities to be used in combat with game pad support, FF 14 allows for 16 buttons per hot bar up to 8 different hot bars, and for game that don't have support I can do up to 8 hot bars with 8 abilities per as long as the key binds don't require something like shift +1 to activate a hot bar. Even if the game did I could be down to 7 hot bars with 8 per and still be very comfortable with my key placement.

     

    So what do we have here 17 regular keys available standard, 32 keys on a supported cross key set up, 128 keys in a FF 14 button setup, 64 keys in a standard hotbar keybind setup, and 56 keys in a restricted hotbar setup. And that's with basic knowledge of the system if you were to delve deeper you could split keys that aren't even support by the game I just never bothered to learn because I always have an excess or keys or a set up that works in my custom formats.

     

    It's not a game pad problem and it's not a console problem and how dare people claim console players are simple minded and not ready for challenge. I swear some people have their head shoved so far up their *** they can't even hear themselves talk.

    8 keys makes you make choices about your build and what type of combat you want to bring. if it bothers you so much you can swap out the next 156 skills and if your swapping that much maybe your build is just terrible or you hate your class. Some of it may seem limiting but this seems to be the easiest to balance approach for the devs at the moment. Maybe we let the game get out of alpha and wait till testing to start our finger pointing. maybe beta shows that balance fears are easy to address and it would be ok for a class to socket 4 dps without blowing up the world(doubt it).

     

    I am a console play and a PC player and I have been playing single player, online, Fps, Mobas and mmos for years now with and without motion joy. I have seen no drop in performance nor have I tried blaming other games and consoles for button layouts. The only thing thing that  would mess up a game pad experience is a bad carmera (sticky/rubber like funcom uses for all their games only one I've had problems with), and poor mouse sensitivity tuning in game settings.

    "Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    Originally posted by drakaena
    Here is the thing about games that offer a bunch of bindable abilities.. macros. The best rotations will be min/max into a 2 or 3 button macro. Now my math isn't great but that is less than 8. See Rift after release. Combat devolved into macro chains. Now you have a choice of offering Macro customizing into the UI which will inevitably simplify combat or not add it and give those with the know-how a decisive advantage when they use third-party programs to macro chains. 

     

    I know that homogenized classes are good for one playstyle but for me they are horrible. Raiders who wanted to play catch up or do more low end content to advance their small raiding guilds loved the skill changes in MOP and yes most raid builds are pretty close, but the old pvp builds for Death Knights alone would have many pages of builds because its more situational by its nature. There were all kinds of highly effective and highly ranked pvp builds that were only used by a fraction of the player base so  But GW2 did not live up the expectations to say the least and MOP did the opposite of gaining new subs it ran people away by last check. I mean look there is nothing new about EZ mode skillbars all they are doing is making 3D Mu online, weapon  skills and power sets been there done that welcome to 2001, then all you end up doing is gear tweaking the rest of the game, no thanks. 

     

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member

    I voted WTF difference does it make? Are you having fun? Then that's the point.

    Friggin buttons...friggin sheep

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,422Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST

    I voted WTF difference does it make? Are you having fun? Then that's the point.

    Friggin buttons...friggin sheep

    It's not the buttons. It's the options and choices.

    Lots of options means strategy, variety, and much more fun.

    Once upon a time....

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST

    I voted WTF difference does it make? Are you having fun? Then that's the point.

    Friggin buttons...friggin sheep

    It's not the buttons. It's the options and choices.

    Lots of options means strategy, variety, and much more fun.

    Thanks Mr Salesman...but still leads to my response.....

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST

    I voted WTF difference does it make? Are you having fun? Then that's the point.

    Friggin buttons...friggin sheep

    It's not the buttons. It's the options and choices.

    Lots of options means strategy, variety, and much more fun.

    Thanks Mr Salesman...but still leads to my response.....

    Which doesn't make any sense. You want less options and to be guided by the hand with 8 skill presets and call other people sheep who have the audacity to want options. Sure some people have fun playing moronic games that require no ability to think or have to actually spec  their class, many people also enjoyed  Super Mario RPG it didnt have many options either, you got to fight a big boss in the end and jump a lot, it was also for kids. 

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