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But will there be TRAINS?

ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common

A "train" in EQ1 was where aggroed mobs might go after folks outside your group.

Ex.  say you are in a group that takes on the Uber Ogre.  Things go wrong and half your group gets wiped out, so the remaining half scatter and run, every man for himself, because the penalty for dying has some sting to it (hopefully).

So, in running, you dart past some other players who are talking or resting/medding or haggling over the price of something, and they are caught totally by surprise.  The Uber Ogre, depending upon how its aggro is still on you, peels off and attacks those players, while you continue to run to safety.  And the player who had stepped away getting a cup of coffee while his mage medded, might come running back to the keyboard, stumbling, fumbling, spilling, cursing and scrambling to get his character back into action.

Now, "trains" were a minor form of griefing, intentional or not, and certainly require some sort of faction penalties or, in extreme cases (constant griefing), GM intervention.  But, "trains" were immersive and kept you on you toes.  Noobs in the area can get you killed, so entering any dangerous area requires a visual scan of who is about, are there corpses littered on the ground, are folks griping in chat, etc....  

This game mechanic kind of kept things lively and served to remind you that you were truly in a shared world.  Heck, depending upon where you "camped", you might even log into some of this drama.

BUT.... will EQ Next have trains?  I don't know.

Comments

  • AlcuinAlcuin Broken State, CAPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Probably not. Trains required a few things: Unlimited agro "memory", proximity agro when the targets of the original agro were dead or gone, zone lines, and a fear of a death penalty.
    Maybe all these things will be in and that's how the game will be made. I haven't seen anything to think that, though.

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  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    You have no idea how hard it was to resist the urge to post a picture of Thomas the Train or a Disney Train to make fun of the art style. I'm sure advanced AI would in no way involve the most basic of AI and chase target until it dies. I'm sure you could still get a lot of things chasing you at once but I would hope the AI does more than "train".

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  • KuanshuKuanshu Des Moines, IAPosts: 272Member

    They had one video where an Iron Golem was trained to a small fortress by the Kerran Warrior and the Iron Golem smashed the building

    I for one am psyched about emergent AI and am wanting to see it in action moreso then remembering dumb downed AI and even though MOB linking was exciting it was still poorly implimented MOB AI

    Trains worked well in ZONES. It would be cool if the MOB had a leashing point where the zone would normally be in the past. MMORPGs have tried to reproduce this and have as yet to truly introduce something immersive.

  • TibbzTibbz Houston, TXPosts: 619Member
    Trains added a bit of unorthadox challenge to EQ1, it also allowed a B-hole monk to train to a groups location.. proceed to Feign death and let said train slaughter the group.  In PvP this was an evil tactic.. but I like it.  

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  • RonosRonos Woodstock, GAPosts: 24Member Uncommon
    Or playing a bard or wizard and kiting the train down after the monk saves you the time of rounding it up.
  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Devs were saying random "funny" things during the end of the reveal where they were all playing. One said "no more trains to zone" or something like that.
    I always got a kick out of zoning in to see a huge pile of bodies, but doubt it will happen in EQN.
    Hopefully the AI is smart and instead of chasing forever, a mob runs to a friendly camp and comes back looking for you instead. Like searching for a while, which could lead into a lot more dynamic encounters.
  • munx4555munx4555 moiPosts: 169Member
    I would like to see the return of trains, dosn't really make sense for mobs to forget about enemies that quickly if they are truely smart.
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Originally posted by munx4555
    I would like to see the return of trains, dosn't really make sense for mobs to forget about enemies that quickly if they are truely smart.

    Agreed.  If if they didn't train until the walk back, where aggro on the original offender was released, and then open to anyone they cross while heading back to spawn site, would be cool.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    God I hope so. I miss monky griefing

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  • VassagoMaelVassagoMael Covington, LAPosts: 555Member
    I was hoping for choo choos :(

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  • nisraknisrak Honolulu, HIPosts: 70Member

    I'm thinking that different NPC types will chase differently.  A dumb giant, for example, may just chase you a short distance and give up.  A group of enemy bandits, however, may chase much farther.  You may have to run to a group of guards to scare the bandits away and make them give up the chase.

    The WoW 10-foot tethers really degraded the difficulty and dynamics of the game. 

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Haha that would be fun. XD

     

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  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Originally posted by nisrak

    I'm thinking that different NPC types will chase differently.  A dumb giant, for example, may just chase you a short distance and give up.  A group of enemy bandits, however, may chase much farther.  You may have to run to a group of guards to scare the bandits away and make them give up the chase.

    The WoW 10-foot tethers really degraded the difficulty and dynamics of the game. 

    Good ideas. Might be intereting if the tether's length was slightly randomized each encounter (i.e., those bandits would chase you from 100 to 200 yards or something.)

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    Originally posted by nisrak

    I'm thinking that different NPC types will chase differently.  A dumb giant, for example, may just chase you a short distance and give up.  A group of enemy bandits, however, may chase much farther.  You may have to run to a group of guards to scare the bandits away and make them give up the chase.

    The WoW 10-foot tethers really degraded the difficulty and dynamics of the game. 

    Good ideas. Might be intereting if the tether's length was slightly randomized each encounter (i.e., those bandits would chase you from 100 to 200 yards or something.)

    Why would they stop chasing you if they are winning and you are running in their environment,

    I kind of wish we could get away from the mobs sprawled everywhere world design, I am not sure how it would be done I am not saying it could be done...but I swear to god the amount of bears and wolves in Lotro is beyond absurd, and it is the same in every MMO what the hell are those 100 wolves in northern bree land eating? I don't recall early MMO's being so dense in population of random critters...it probably came about from the introduction of quests and then the realization that if a lot of people are doing the same quest you need a lot of quest targets or they will get bored and not be able to finish the quest. You don't really see it in Single Player RPG's, except the random old JRPG's. It is one of those strange MMO things I have just become use to until someone points it out.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Tibbz
    Trains added a bit of unorthadox challenge to EQ1, it also allowed a B-hole monk to train to a groups location.. proceed to Feign death and let said train slaughter the group.  In PvP this was an evil tactic.. but I like it.  

    Asshole Monks suggests such a dirty movie man, I mean I was going to try and hit the topic all serious but then ...  well LOL.  I can't remember what I was going to write. Sorry. Was slain.

  • nisraknisrak Honolulu, HIPosts: 70Member
    Why would they stop chasing you if they are winning and you are running in their environment,

    I kind of wish we could get away from the mobs sprawled everywhere world design, I am not sure how it would be done I am not saying it could be done...but I swear to god the amount of bears and wolves in Lotro is beyond absurd, and it is the same in every MMO what the hell are those 100 wolves in northern bree land eating? I don't recall early MMO's being so dense in population of random critters...it probably came about from the introduction of quests and then the realization that if a lot of people are doing the same quest you need a lot of quest targets or they will get bored and not be able to finish the quest. You don't really see it in Single Player RPG's, except the random old JRPG's. It is one of those strange MMO things I have just become use to until someone points it out.

    I think the motivation-based AI will take of most of this problem.  For example, they can just say: wolves don't like to be around lots of other wolves.  So you won't have dense areas with hundreds of wolves.

    For tethering, the motivation-based AI comes in to play too.  Think of a giant who is dumb and thinks he's the biggest and baddest.  If a few humans hit him and he scares them away, he's not gonna care enough to chase them for 5 miles (unless, maybe, you kill his friend).  A group of bandits, however, really want your gold and will chase you until you reach the guards.

    This emergent AI will (hopefully) impact all aspects of how monsters act and make logical sense, from the monster's point of view.

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