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GW2's combat system is boring, zerg everything, why do people want that?

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  • BBPD766BBPD766 Boynton Beach, FLPosts: 97Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    I hate wow for what is has become, but saying wow is easy ? realy ?
    Maybe you did low level contend ?
    You might wanne try those heroics sometimes, and i mean heroic raids.
    ye taught so, most never did...

    GW2 is the most basic mmo i ever played, no tactics involved in world bosses or events.
    Just zerg and once low on health you dodge use heal or run to the back untill your heal comes of cooldown rinse and repeat.
    WvW no diffrent
    PvE one big zerg fest
    Dungeons can be hard unless you have a gaurdian warrior team and you can faceroll trough most shit.

    My biggest fear came trough....it seems mmo designers are willing to copy a similar playstyle from GW2.
    It is the most boring thing i ever played, it was fun for awhile but after 1 hour i cant take it anymore with a few buttons and a few dodges.

    To each his own flavor offcourse :)
    No disrespect for anyone who love the GW2 playstyle, but my guild left within 2 months of release :(

    And now we see ripoff mmo number 2 EQN comming with a similar system as GW2....
    I hope not all studio's are going to copy these action 8 skill zerg festivals :(

    ...and for those who realize that  WE don't see ripoff number 2 know that  WE

    1) haven't actually played EQN's combat

    2) accept that all of the information about EQN's combat hasn't been fully released to us

    3) understand that it would be pure speculation to prematurely jump to a conclusion that it's similar to GW2's system based solely on the information provided thus far

    Maybe WE should wait and see?

  • bigbudzbigbudz O Fallon, ILPosts: 52Member
    I can see why some people like the combat, but I find it dull. There isn't really anything special about this game besides the dev team that constantly releases new content. It may not be the content everyone wants but they are at least trying. GW2 was alright for a week or so.  The community is awful as well on the server I was on. Multiplayer lobby ftl

    Current PC Build

    http://pcpartpicker.com/b/p8RBD3


    Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable

    Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member

    GW2 is boring, because I can only do what other character types can do. I am no different in fighting than someone else of the same class. We end up doing the same things, switching to the same weapons, having the same macros because this game is limited in sight.

    There is no free-form, no open combat, it is just a min/max macro-fest...  I want an adult game like EQ1 where not how many spells u cast, it's when..   or using tactics.

     

    Zero tactics in GW2 except zerg and macro...

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    What's interesting about GW2 combat is how much more efficient it is with organized (or at least knowledgeable) game play. The lack of a trinity and hard roles, plus the ability for players to combine their abilities for added effects means a much deeper combat system if you look for it using cross profession combo mechanics. For example, an elementalist in water attunement can drop down a water field that offers healing to enemies in the field. But another profession with a blast finisher can recognize this field, use a blast finishing skill, and spread an AoE regeneration boon to allies all around him. Someone can lay down a fire field to add burning to enemies, other allies can recognize this fire field and fire projectiles through it for added fire/burning damage, they can blast the field to give allies a flame shield effect, etc. 

     

    Then beyond that there's the fact that most skills have secondary (and often tertiary) effect making their tactical use much more important. For example on my mesmer I have a utility called "Null Field". Beautiful utility if you ask me... it'll remove conditions from allies in the field, it'll strip boons from enemies (which makes them sad, especially in WvW), and it also serves as a chaos field for combo effects. Placement on that makes a huge difference on the flow of a battle. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Phelcher

    GW2 is boring, because I can only do what other character types can do. I am no different in fighting than someone else of the same class. We end up doing the same things, switching to the same weapons, having the same macros because this game is limited in sight.

    There is no free-form, no open combat, it is just a min/max macro-fest...  I want an adult game like EQ1 where not how many spells u cast, it's when..   or using tactics.

     

    Zero tactics in GW2 except zerg and macro...

     

    Macros? Really? Nice try. Macros will get you banned for one thing, and in a game where the skills need to be tactically used instead of spammed off cooldown anyone foolish enough to try using macros will find themselves gimping their characters notably.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Porto AlegrePosts: 1,020Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phelcher

    GW2 is boring, because I can only do what other character types can do. I am no different in fighting than someone else of the same class. We end up doing the same things, switching to the same weapons, having the same macros because this game is limited in sight.

    There is no free-form, no open combat, it is just a min/max macro-fest...  I want an adult game like EQ1 where not how many spells u cast, it's when..   or using tactics.

     

    Zero tactics in GW2 except zerg and macro...

    Thats an example of someone who have not played the game and start apreading hate for the sake of.... what anyways?

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    I'm not zerging anything in GW2, mostly because I play with a group of people who understands how to play. The only people who zerg are the ones who don't know how to do better.

    Funny enough, this happens in game that is so "dumbed down", "lacking strategy", "easymode" etc. I guess when you don't have clearly defined roles where a UI mode can tell you how good you are, many people don't even notice they are playing poorly.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon

    What's interesting about GW2 combat is how much more efficient it is with organized (or at least knowledgeable) game play. The lack of a trinity and hard roles, plus the ability for players to combine their abilities for added effects means a much deeper combat system if you look for it using cross profession combo mechanics. For example, an elementalist in water attunement can drop down a water field that offers healing to enemies in the field. But another profession with a blast finisher can recognize this field, use a blast finishing skill, and spread an AoE regeneration boon to allies all around him. Someone can lay down a fire field to add burning to enemies, other allies can recognize this fire field and fire projectiles through it for added fire/burning damage, they can blast the field to give allies a flame shield effect, etc. 

     

    Then beyond that there's the fact that most skills have secondary (and often tertiary) effect making their tactical use much more important. For example on my mesmer I have a utility called "Null Field". Beautiful utility if you ask me... it'll remove conditions from allies in the field, it'll strip boons from enemies (which makes them sad, especially in WvW), and it also serves as a chaos field for combo effects. Placement on that makes a huge difference on the flow of a battle. 

    And what combat system isn't? 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Obviously SOE's marketing team has determined that GW2's combat system isn't well received by the majority. That is why they are already trying to distance themselves from any comparison of what they have in EQN and what GW2's system is. 

     

    They also said that the trinity is a result of outdated and poor A.I.

     

     

    And???  It is true to some extent. Just because I think GW2 combat is crappy doesn't mean I think that the trinity is the only answer.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Arthasm
    I feel the same, OP. I was biggest fan of GW2 and because of trinity lack, I thought combat would be blast. And much more harder. But, I was sooo wrong. Super easy game. God mode on.

    The fact that the game is faceroll easy has nothing to do with the lack of the holy trinity. 

     

    >.>

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • Dimsum1337Dimsum1337 MoscowPosts: 60Member

    I dont care about trinity. However what grinds my gears with GW2 is not the combat per se but the lack of customization. Yes there there are slight alterations as you level but its just more of the same build... the thrill of unlocking new skills is somewhat reserved to that time that you first get a new weapon, and once the talents are unlocked it becomes pointless.

    While this occurs in all MMOs the rapidity with which GW2 skills gets stale is just phenomenal. If there were more and "more better" skills along the way the combat would be ok by me.

     

     

    My 2 c. 

  • crashdxcrashdx Houston, TXPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Obviously SOE's marketing team has determined that GW2's combat system isn't well received by the majority. That is why they are already trying to distance themselves from any comparison of what they have in EQN and what GW2's system is. 

     

    They also said that the trinity is a result of outdated and poor A.I.

     

     

    And???  It is true to some extent. Just because I think GW2 combat is crappy doesn't mean I think that the trinity is the only answer.

     

      And nothing. You're trying to make your opinion into some fact that it is crappy just because EQN's combat system is different from GW2. Of course they are going to say this game isn't like that game, that's the logical thing to say. SWTOR said it's game was different from WoW...we see how that worked out.

     

    Pretty sure those guys would agree with GW2 methods since they have a lot of similarities that can't be denied like weapon swapping and pretty much ability swapping in the same way that GW2 does. The only thing they've maintained is that you can play a healer...but that you can't necessarily play a tank because there is no aggro...much like GW2. GW2 really has no healers but you can certainly play support. The combat system right now seems REALLY familiar to GW2 despite what they say.

  • munx4555munx4555 moiPosts: 169Member

    Gw2 has some nice features, sadly to me the horrible combat / group combat easily overshadows all the good stuff in gw2, I have never had as little fun in combat as I did in gw2, especially in group combat.

    The horrible endgame also does not do the game any favours.

    Also have to say the so called dynamic events, were a massive disapointment, they didnt even do a good job of creating the illusion of being dynamic.

  • PluppetsPluppets Black FlagPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

     

    If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

     

    The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

     

    For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

    Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

     

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by ee1213
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

     

    If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

     

    The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

     

    For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

    Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

     

    Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

  • PluppetsPluppets Black FlagPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by ee1213
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

     

    If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

     

    The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

     

    For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

    Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

     

    Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

    Though I agree that it takes time to strategize and the like for high-tier content, you are wrong on so many levels here.

     

    Firstly-- why not just put down the pitchfork, pick up an action game, and enjoy the 1000's of zergs?  I do!  But I don't want RPG's to dissolve into that.

     

    • Played 1000s of hours of WoW PVP, because I was able to craft a specific character to fill a role.  The teamwork made those hours bearable.  The same became true of PVE when I joined a great guild.
    • Played ~30 hours of GW2 and lost interest.  Judging from the numbers, I'm not alone on this one.  That shit gets old fast.

     

    TL;DR - Enjoy dat action game of the month.  I'll be playing TF2.

  • PluppetsPluppets Black FlagPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by ee1213
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The reason all those action MMO become zerg has been pointed out by people in the past.

     

    If you remove tanking and healing from a game, you need to increase the armor of the players to compensate for this, because everyone is now a tank without heals.

     

    The increased armor results in zerg tactics that aren't possible in trinity systems. You can give everyone but your tanks 0 armor in a trinity system with forced grouping, you can't do this once you remove trinity.

     

    For all of the infighting over trinity systems- this simple, objective statement by CalmOceans nails it.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

    Rather than dissolving role-specific mechanics and interdependence, why not create even more roles?

     

    Nails it if everyone wanted to play MMO"s and do nothing but run 40 man PVE raids ,,,the problem is I lost interest in playing Simon Say's when I was in  pre-school . CalmOceans  is just another sorry  relic from the past that can't adapt to change ,I'd rather run 100 zergs than sit around for three hours on a Friday night waiting for a dick assed healer to show up so that 39 other folks can complete a run

    Also, have you ever considered that...

    ROLE playing game

    Might have something to do with playing roles?

     

    The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.

    How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me.  The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.

  • AeanderAeander Walker, LAPosts: 523Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Piechunks
    Originally posted by Mahavishnu

    GW2's combat is the best in any MMO and the main reason, why I cannot play any other MMO anymore. Y

     

    Why precisely do you enjoy GW2s combat over WoWs combat?

    Because WoW's combat is stationary and boring with little to no depth. It's literally so easy that you can use bot addons and afk.

     

    At least Guild Wars 2 manages to provide an occasional challenge. If you try facerolling Liandri, high end Fractals, or Arah, you're not going to have a good time. 

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by STYNKFYST

    GW2's combat is the most boring of all you mentioned huh?

    So why are you posting this? It's completely obvious what you said is false even if it is as "opinion".

    Oh...I get it. It's another "Holy Trinity" thread....gotcha.

    Umm because that is the whole point of these forums? this is not a fan site though and if people dislike a certain topic they are free not to read. 

    Read the rest and you'll see I answered my own question sparky.

  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeander

     

    At least Guild Wars 2 manages to provide an occasional challenge. If you try facerolling Liandri, high end Fractals, or Arah, you're not going to have a good time. 

    Been there, done that. But it's your opinion, in mine it's facerool. Too bad I didn't realise earlier, just after epic fight of all epics fights ever with Zaithan, main villain.  

  • dgarbinidgarbini San Jose, CAPosts: 185Member

    Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos.  The combat can be very engaging and tactical.  I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them.  I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast.  So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.

     

    Now dont get me wrong there are plenty of things to dislike about this game, and I have many complaints.  The game itself may be boring I get that as well.  Hell more variety in combat/skill/builds would be great I completely get that complaint.  But the combat by itself is fine.  Perhaps action combat is not for you.

  • crashdxcrashdx Houston, TXPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by ee1213

    Also, have you ever considered that...

    ROLE playing game

    Might have something to do with playing roles?

     

    The idea that everyone should be able to do whatever and ever whatever...it basically undermines the genre, and marginalizes creativity and tactics.

    How this argument for abolishing a genre's core principles, in turn causing people to turd rage about the very BASIS of the genre, baffles me.  The more I think about it, this whole mole hill might have been avoided if ANet hadn't called it an RPG.

     

      Except that GW2 has roles? I guess it just blows people minds that you don't sit in one spot and faceroll the same buttons over and over again and that you may actually have to switch your strategy on the fly.

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    While zerging a world boss/champion can really be mindless, the latest trailer for WoW (Siege of Ogrimmar) showed planted players and bosses jabbing at their foot. That looked pretty boring to me too.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,927Member Uncommon

    While I do disagree that classes are 'all the same', I do agree with a lot of the rest. Combat is GW2s weakest point for certain. It becomes very monotonous very quickly. Events as you mention make this a LOT worst where it becomes a "press 1 key and ZZZ" mode. Unfortunately, this even carries onto more complex classes like Mesmer where it just feels so unrewarding and dull. There are games that do have few abilities that just feel more engaging and exciting such as neverwinter which executed far more simplistic combat much better, giving that 'feeling' of impact. 

     

    I think its something that even die hard fans of GW2 can acknowledge that the combat isn't one of the strongest aspects (stronger then the story which can be VERY terrible at times, mixed with some good parts). Classes do feel concept wise interesting but unfortunately the gameplay just doesn't cut it out and it just really makes it about 'what concept do you think is the coolest' while executing things with only slight variation.

    Sure, again, you don't need complex combat thats heavily skill based, I understand not everyone is hardcore like me, but it just lacks complexity AND it lacks that feeling of doing something, an issue that usually dungeon crawlers even like Diablo 3 as simplistic as it was with what you did just made it feel like I was doing a lot more and things were more meaningful. Its a shame to since if the combat was good, I feel even with an aim most probably wouldn't be into, the game would at least garnish a good amount of attention, even if other areas are typically lack luster a good combat system which is the games main focus would of made up for it, it just falls flat though.

     

    Originally posted by dgarbini

    Watch some of the very skilled pvp videos.  The combat can be very engaging and tactical.  I have seen 2 take on a dozen ok level players and wipe the floor with them.  I myself have done a 2 v 5 and won, it was a blast.  So I would not call the combat alone boring or zerg.

     

    Problem with that, is you can say the same about that with other games as well. I've done it in games like Rift for example, and other games have far more tactical pvp where skill plays more part with action such as Tera (mmo style) or games like Dragon's Nest.

  • AadienAadien Roseville, CAPosts: 223Member
    Its a Carebear game, what do you expect from it? Its the ultra causal or causal games. Let them be , they dont want to try, they just want stuff handed to them, and then glee to their friends that they "worked" so hard for it. Ignorance is bliss
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