The thing is YOU missed them I was breaking up the flaws in YOUR argument. The deconstruction of your flawed fabrication of an "fact and evidence based" argument you conveniently deleted from the post.
Now suddenly 40-50% loss come into the equations after the math horribly failed. Based on "some developers said". How convenient.
Where is you proof of this "decline"? Don't dodge the fact YOUR entire argument failed. You where making the claims. I pointed out if someone didn't fail at logic and math, your argument would at best imply GW2 could still and is more likely to be growing and would not proof it is in decline at all. Your response was deleting it from the quote and pretend I just critizised your argument and just made claims in regards to the opposite.
Don't pretend no one knows your endless history of sockpuppet accounts you constantly keep trashing non-Blizzard and glorifying Blizzard games with here and elsewhere. After more than half a decade and closing up to at least tenthousand of post just trashing or slandering the competition alone you ought to believe people would notice no matter the facade of new account names.
I actually stated specifically it was what Jeremy Gaffney stated, you might want to go back and read what I said. It was in the latest MMORPG Online panel. I have about 5-6 sources that show the decline from the abysmal population in sPvP servers, to website traffic, to sites like xfire and Raptr, to sales figures. You on the other hand really don't have any proof for growth? Do you? Seems like you backed of the "growth" statement now.
Oh yeah I have a dozen accounts here glorifying Blizzard games and trashing non-Blizzard games. Sure buddy, I am a paid poster. I am also President Obama.
The thing is YOU missed them I was breaking up the flaws in YOUR argument. The deconstruction of your flawed fabrication of an "fact and evidence based" argument you conveniently deleted from the post.
Now suddenly 40-50% loss come into the equations after the math horribly failed. Based on "some developers said". How convenient.
Where is you proof of this "decline"? Don't dodge the fact YOUR entire argument failed. You where making the claims. I pointed out if someone didn't fail at logic and math, your argument would at best imply GW2 could still and is more likely to be growing and would not proof it is in decline at all. Your response was deleting it from the quote and pretend I just critizised your argument and just made claims in regards to the opposite.
Don't pretend no one knows your endless history of sockpuppet accounts you constantly keep trashing non-Blizzard and glorifying Blizzard games with here and elsewhere. After more than half a decade and closing up to at least tenthousand of post just trashing or slandering the competition alone you ought to believe people would notice no matter the facade of new account names.
I actually stated specifically it was what Jeremy Gaffney stated, you might want to go back and read what I said. It was in the latest MMORPG Online panel. I have about 5-6 sources that show the decline from the abysmal population in sPvP servers, to website traffic, to sites like xfire and Raptr, to sales figures. You on the other hand really don't have any proof for growth? Do you? Seems like you backed of the "growth" statement now.
Oh yeah I have a dozen accounts here glorifying Blizzard games and trashing non-Blizzard games. Sure buddy, I am a paid poster. I am also President Obama.
1st - What does sPvP population drop has to do with PvE/WvW population?
The game is by far PvE focused.
2nd - What does website traffic have to do with population drop?
Before the game was released websites were everything interested players had. now they have the game.
3rd - XFire also shows a 85% population drop for WoW. Still makes GW2 the second most played MMORPG. By the way if you dislike Xfire clock and fps counter in game you cant disable it in GW2 since it crashes the game.
4th - Raptr shows Rift as the most played MMORPG. These tools represent such a limited amount of players that a simple offer can distort numbers like that.
5th - Sales don't show a decline because players only need to buy the game once.
6th - The population is most likely smaller than it was at launch (where GW2 was the biggest new mmorpg release in the west), but it seems more populated now that it seemed in October-Dec'12 and even Jan-March'13 (when there are Anet devs on the record confirming they had more players playing every week). Anyone really playing the game will notice it.
Now it can be due to more players are actively playing or because Anet became very good at directing players to the same areas or both.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
1st - What does sPvP population drop has to do with PvE/WvW population?
The game is by far PvE focused.
It doesn't but it is one of the only in-game things we can actually measure. And during peak times there are about 300-500 players in sPvP across all servers. If there was a way to measure PvE pop in game that would be great too, but we can't. We could do it in games like WoW and SWTOR which functions like /who.
WoW is slowly declining, and Xfire shows it. It lost millions of subs this year alone. But it had a good run, I would be shocked if it gets back up to the 9+ million mark again.
Here is my point, everything we can actually measure from third party sources to in-game shows a decline. People that speak of growth have no such proof. Obviously we can't 100% prove anything unless the developers come out and say it. But usually PR speak for any game tries to present their game in the best light, see Neverwinter's recent PR post where they said they had 2 million players.
I actually stated specifically it was what Jeremy Gaffney stated, you might want to go back and read what I said. It was in the latest MMORPG Online panel. I have about 5-6 sources that show the decline from the abysmal population in sPvP servers, to website traffic, to sites like xfire and Raptr, to sales figures. You on the other hand really don't have any proof for growth? Do you? Seems like you backed of the "growth" statement now.
Oh yeah I have a dozen accounts here glorifying Blizzard games and trashing non-Blizzard games. Sure buddy, I am a paid poster. I am also President Obama.
You specifically distorted Gaffneys words and put a personal spin on his words on top of it after Gaffneys numbers failed to "proof" GW2 was in decline. I never said you didn't spin his words and did not add even more fabrications on top of it. That was also addressed in the part you deleted from the quotes and simply ignored because your entire argument was not just debunked but backfired to the opposite with you initial figures, before you had to put you personal assumption of player decline on top of it... in desperate attempt to proof that GW2 was declining.
So much for those "facts" you care so much for.
I deleted that quote because I was not going to read all of that and respond to all of it. Nothing really backfired or was debunked. He said good games churn out 5% to 10%, he also specfically uses WoW as one of the good games. Average/Bad games probably churn out more than that as he himself states. I didn't do all that, because I didn't think anyone would be defensive enough to nitpick all that. Because if I did, my theory would work out.
Again, you still backed away from the "growth" argument after I asked for proof. I on the other hand have several sources which I have quoted that back a 60% to 80% decline. It could just be the norm in the MMO industry but it is just how the numbers play out.
I would love to see actual facts. But I haven't seen anything.
I would love for you to present a counter argument (outside of "screenshot or financial statement or it didnt happen")
For all its worth: I am far from the "perfect GW2 fan". Left the game for months after the nov. 15th update, and yes I was REALLY annoyed.
Fact: I returned recently (2-3 months back) and game (on my "medium" server) is just as lively as it was when I took a break some 6-7 months ago.
Very, VERY different compared to AoC, WoW or even Aion...
If you feel an urge to pull the "screenshot or it didnt happen" card: PM me for a guild invite...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I would love to see actual facts. But I haven't seen anything.
I would love for you to present a counter argument (outside of "screenshot or financial statement or it didnt happen")
For all its worth: I am far from the "perfect GW2 fan". Left the game for months after the nov. 15th update, and yes I was REALLY annoyed.
Fact: I returned recently (2-3 months back) and game (on my "medium" server) is just as lively as it was when I took a break some 6-7 months ago.
Very, VERY different compared to AoC, WoW or even Aion...
If you feel an urge to pull the "screenshot or it didnt happen" card: PM me for a guild invite...
I have several times and am not going to do it again, but when I shows these figures they somehow don't count. So as I said, we can't be sure unless we see actual stats from devs.
Not the stupid "We have 2 million players" that Neverwinter recently released. Something like "We have 200k active users in the last month" would be more impressive.
1st - What does sPvP population drop has to do with PvE/WvW population?
The game is by far PvE focused.
It doesn't but it is one of the only in-game things we can actually measure. And during peak times there are about 300-500 players in sPvP across all servers. If there was a way to measure PvE pop in game that would be great too, but we can't. We could do it in games like WoW and SWTOR which functions like /who.
WoW is slowly declining, and Xfire shows it. It lost millions of subs this year alone. But it had a good run, I would be shocked if it gets back up to the 9+ million mark again.
Here is my point, everything we can actually measure from third party sources to in-game shows a decline. People that speak of growth have no such proof. Obviously we can't 100% prove anything unless the developers come out and say it. But usually PR speak for any game tries to present their game in the best light, see Neverwinter's recent PR post where they said they had 2 million players.
It is all of Xfire that is in decline.
WoW in Jan'12 used to have around 15K players and some 100K hours.
By Sep'12 when GW2 launched, it had like 7K players and 25K hours.
Now WoW has 2800 players and 13K hours.
GW2 has 6.5K hours and 1600 players.
Even LoL has 16K players and 70K hours vs 30K players and 100K hours in Sep'12.
If Xfire is representative than WoW lost some 80% of its population. It hasn't. We know that.
Xfire is dying and it isn't a useful tool any longer. Sure, there aren't many others but that doesn't mean using wrong tools is acceptable.
sPvP is a very niche segment of GW2, and so far it has failed to get any traction as an eSport. No doubts about that. But 150 peeps is basically a battle in WvW and you have a couple of those in any of the 4 maps or you have 50-100 peeps in any World Boss with a chest or in the Pavillion crown (where I'm always in overflow).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
1st - What does sPvP population drop has to do with PvE/WvW population?
The game is by far PvE focused.
It doesn't but it is one of the only in-game things we can actually measure. And during peak times there are about 300-500 players in sPvP across all servers. If there was a way to measure PvE pop in game that would be great too, but we can't. We could do it in games like WoW and SWTOR which functions like /who.
WoW is slowly declining, and Xfire shows it. It lost millions of subs this year alone. But it had a good run, I would be shocked if it gets back up to the 9+ million mark again.
Here is my point, everything we can actually measure from third party sources to in-game shows a decline. People that speak of growth have no such proof. Obviously we can't 100% prove anything unless the developers come out and say it. But usually PR speak for any game tries to present their game in the best light, see Neverwinter's recent PR post where they said they had 2 million players.
It is all of Xfire that is in decline.
WoW in Jan'12 used to have around 15K players and some 100K hours.
By Sep'12 when GW2 launched, it had like 7K players and 25K hours.
Now WoW has 2800 players and 13K hours.
GW2 has 6.5K hours and 1600 players.
Even LoL has 16K players and 70K hours vs 30K players and 100K hours in Sep'12.
If Xfire is representative than WoW lost some 80% of its population. It hasn't.
Xfire is dying and it isn't a useful tool any longer. Sure, there aren't many others but that doesn't mean using wrong tools is acceptable.
sPvP is a very niche segment of GW2, and so far it has failed to get any traction as an eSport. No doubts about that. But 150 peeps is basically a battle in WvW and you have a couple of those in any of the 4 maps or you have 50-100 peeps in any World Boss with a chest or in the Pavillion crown (where I'm always in overflow).
Yeah Raptr has taken over Xfire and has a significantly larger sample (I believe it is 20+ million users). I only look at Xfire to see trends as they post their data by month/week, which Raptr doesn't.
I have several times and am not going to do it again, but when I shows these figures they somehow don't count. So as I said, we can't be sure unless we see actual stats from devs.
Not the stupid "We have 2 million players" that Neverwinter recently released. Something like "We have 200k active users in the last month" would be more impressive.
Sorry... You are just lipflapping.
200K active players in GW2 would be an understatement... Not by a factor 1:10, but an understatement still.
But hey: Jump right in... Guest a few servers, join a guild or two and enjoy anecdotal evidence: Game is doing a hell of a lot better than other MMO-like games...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I would love to see actual facts. But I haven't seen anything.
I would love for you to present a counter argument (outside of "screenshot or financial statement or it didnt happen")
For all its worth: I am far from the "perfect GW2 fan". Left the game for months after the nov. 15th update, and yes I was REALLY annoyed.
Fact: I returned recently (2-3 months back) and game (on my "medium" server) is just as lively as it was when I took a break some 6-7 months ago.
Very, VERY different compared to AoC, WoW or even Aion...
If you feel an urge to pull the "screenshot or it didnt happen" card: PM me for a guild invite...
I have several times and am not going to do it again, but when I shows these figures they somehow don't count. So as I said, we can't be sure unless we see actual stats from devs.
Not the stupid "We have 2 million players" that Neverwinter recently released. Something like "We have 200k active users in the last month" would be more impressive.
You need to make sure the data you are providing actually says what you think it does.
Xfire numbers aren't as representative as most people think.
Financial reports reflect sales. In this case 'box sales', which anyone familiar w/ GW2 knows it doesn't really apply (most of GW2's revenue is NOT from the box. It's also a game where expansion content is freely provided, so they aren't padding their box sales with expansions.
IF you can get accurate population numbers, directly from the company, those are usually reliable-ish. However, they are usually rough estimates if you're lucky. Most companies don't release those true numbers, because it doesn't benefit them in the slightest, and can even do a lot of harm if they aren't careful.
- People can post server pops (not numbers; but full, very high, medium, etc.). This data has been dynamically collected, and there are many tools for GW2 that do everything from compare servers, to follow events, to follow group activity.
- People can post the WvW ques that still pop up regularly for all maps. Or screenshots of the boss events, in which there are so many people on the screen, that many of them are being culled (pop in / out of visibility).
- People can post screens of the sPvP servers, which while still a somewhat more niche part of the game, are still fairly active.
However, for some of you that means nothing. You'd rather discount actual in-game evidence, in favor of arbitrary 3rd party data, of which people have no correlation to draw from. That's just bad science.
I have several times and am not going to do it again, but when I shows these figures they somehow don't count. So as I said, we can't be sure unless we see actual stats from devs.
Not the stupid "We have 2 million players" that Neverwinter recently released. Something like "We have 200k active users in the last month" would be more impressive.
Sorry... You are just lipflapping.
200K active players in GW2 would be an understatement... Not by a factor 1:10, but an understatement still.
But hey: Jump right in... Guest a few servers, join a guild or two and enjoy anecdotal evidence: Game is doing a hell of a lot better than other MMO-like games...
You need to make sure the data you are providing actually says what you think it does.
Xfire numbers aren't as representative as most people think.
Financial reports reflect sales. In this case 'box sales', which anyone familiar w/ GW2 knows it doesn't really apply (most of GW2's revenue is NOT from the box. It's also a game where expansion content is freely provided, so they aren't padding their box sales with expansions.
IF you can get accurate population numbers, directly from the company, those are usually reliable-ish. However, they are usually rough estimates if you're lucky. Most companies don't release those true numbers, because it doesn't benefit them in the slightest, and can even do a lot of harm if they aren't careful.
- People can post server pops (not numbers; but full, very high, medium, etc.). This data has been dynamically collected, and there are many tools for GW2 that do everything from compare servers, to follow events, to follow group activity.
- People can post the WvW ques that still pop up regularly for all maps. Or screenshots of the boss events, in which there are so many people on the screen, that many of them are being culled (pop in / out of visibility).
- People can post screens of the sPvP servers, which while still a somewhat more niche part of the game, are still fairly active.
However, for some of you that means nothing. You'd rather discount actual in-game evidence, in favor of arbitrary 3rd party data, of which people have no correlation to draw from. That's just bad science.
I see nothing here that is "in-game evidence". Where are the numbers? Any concrete data? You presenting screenshots as evidence and call things like Raptr "arbitrary"? You know one thing we can actually measure in game? It is the sPvP population. You said it was "fairly active". But go to the Mists and check it out yourself, during peak times there are about 300-500 people in there across all servers. Is that "fairly active" to you?
What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
Sorry I missed that. All your posts seemed to revolve around GW2,
No harm done - By all means keep talking about Neverwinter in relevant forums...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
According to Arenanet, they increased the population caps in each server several times now.
2 or 3 times during the first two weeks and then maybe another 2 times since.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
In Desolation (Very High) it looks like this.
This is just by the bank entrance and obviously there is culling and whatnot.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Sorry I missed that. All your posts seemed to revolve around GW2,
No harm done - By all means keep talking about Neverwinter in relevant forums...
It was an example I used, I wasn't actually talking about Neverwinter.
Sorry - Now I'm just lost...
I simply do NOT understand your "example"...
I need to reread, because you (implicitly) referred to Neverwinter in a GW2 convo. And your remark "I said Neverwinter, read it again". was:
1. Misread by me...
2. An example to emphasize something regarding GW2 pop being lower than (insert x-game)???
Hmm seriously "SomuchM***: On my way to bed - Giving the single-malt a rest... I suggest you do the same :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
Sorry I missed that. All your posts seemed to revolve around GW2,
No harm done - By all means keep talking about Neverwinter in relevant forums...
It was an example I used, I wasn't actually talking about Neverwinter.
Sorry - Now I'm just lost...
I simply do NOT understand your "example"...
I need to reread, because you (implicitly) referred to Neverwinter in a GW2 convo. And your remark "I said Neverwinter, read it again". was:
1. Misread by me...
2. An example to emphasize something regarding GW2 pop being lower than (insert x-game)???
Hmm seriously "SomuchM***: On my way to bed - Giving the single-malt a rest... I suggest you do the same :-)
I wasn't talking about Neverwinter. I said devs need to bring out actual numbers that matter and not PR talk. When Tera says it has 4+ million players, it means nothing. When GW2 says it sold 3 million copies it means nothing. When Neverwinter says it has 2 million player it means nothing.
A better metric would be active players. Either within the last month or even 3 months.
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
In Desolation (Very High) it looks like this.
This is just by the bank entrance and obviously there is culling and whatnot.
Seems like a huge discrepancy between Very High and High. Go guest on ER and check it out yourself.
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
In Desolation (Very High) it looks like this.
This is just by the bank entrance and obviously there is culling and whatnot.
Seems like a huge discrepancy between Very High and High. Go guest on ER and check it out yourself.
Can't - Eredon is NA and Desolation is EU.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
According to Arenanet, they increased the population caps in each server several times now.
2 or 3 times during the first two weeks and then maybe another 2 times since.
Really? I never heard this. I don't want to be petty, but I'm going to need proof to actually be won over. I definitely could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Even if it does end up being the case, them saying that will not substitute for the actually numbers.
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
According to Arenanet, they increased the population caps in each server several times now.
2 or 3 times during the first two weeks and then maybe another 2 times since.
Really? I never heard this. I don't want to be petty, but I'm going to need proof to actually be won over. I definitely could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Even if it does end up being the case, them saying that will not substitute for the actually numbers.
Originally posted by wsmar What quantity defines a full server? Was that quantity the same as it was when it launched? I'd like to know that before you tell me that this game is growing.
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
So I actually went to guest over there.
Around 30 people in JUST that area.
Looks like it's also one of the three least populated servers... in a game where at any point in time you can guest to a more populated server (Which can be useful for various purposes). During a time when Lion's Arch is at an all time low because so many people are running around in DR.
Not amazing, but not bad. I did notice you picked what is quite possibly the lowest population server that Arenanet has. Certainly in the bottom 3.
Comments
I actually stated specifically it was what Jeremy Gaffney stated, you might want to go back and read what I said. It was in the latest MMORPG Online panel. I have about 5-6 sources that show the decline from the abysmal population in sPvP servers, to website traffic, to sites like xfire and Raptr, to sales figures. You on the other hand really don't have any proof for growth? Do you? Seems like you backed of the "growth" statement now.
Oh yeah I have a dozen accounts here glorifying Blizzard games and trashing non-Blizzard games. Sure buddy, I am a paid poster. I am also President Obama.
1st - What does sPvP population drop has to do with PvE/WvW population?
The game is by far PvE focused.
2nd - What does website traffic have to do with population drop?
Before the game was released websites were everything interested players had. now they have the game.
3rd - XFire also shows a 85% population drop for WoW. Still makes GW2 the second most played MMORPG. By the way if you dislike Xfire clock and fps counter in game you cant disable it in GW2 since it crashes the game.
4th - Raptr shows Rift as the most played MMORPG. These tools represent such a limited amount of players that a simple offer can distort numbers like that.
5th - Sales don't show a decline because players only need to buy the game once.
6th - The population is most likely smaller than it was at launch (where GW2 was the biggest new mmorpg release in the west), but it seems more populated now that it seemed in October-Dec'12 and even Jan-March'13 (when there are Anet devs on the record confirming they had more players playing every week). Anyone really playing the game will notice it.
Now it can be due to more players are actively playing or because Anet became very good at directing players to the same areas or both.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It doesn't but it is one of the only in-game things we can actually measure. And during peak times there are about 300-500 players in sPvP across all servers. If there was a way to measure PvE pop in game that would be great too, but we can't. We could do it in games like WoW and SWTOR which functions like /who.
WoW is slowly declining, and Xfire shows it. It lost millions of subs this year alone. But it had a good run, I would be shocked if it gets back up to the 9+ million mark again.
Here is my point, everything we can actually measure from third party sources to in-game shows a decline. People that speak of growth have no such proof. Obviously we can't 100% prove anything unless the developers come out and say it. But usually PR speak for any game tries to present their game in the best light, see Neverwinter's recent PR post where they said they had 2 million players.
I deleted that quote because I was not going to read all of that and respond to all of it. Nothing really backfired or was debunked. He said good games churn out 5% to 10%, he also specfically uses WoW as one of the good games. Average/Bad games probably churn out more than that as he himself states. I didn't do all that, because I didn't think anyone would be defensive enough to nitpick all that. Because if I did, my theory would work out.
Again, you still backed away from the "growth" argument after I asked for proof. I on the other hand have several sources which I have quoted that back a 60% to 80% decline. It could just be the norm in the MMO industry but it is just how the numbers play out.
I would love for you to present a counter argument (outside of "screenshot or financial statement or it didnt happen")
For all its worth: I am far from the "perfect GW2 fan". Left the game for months after the nov. 15th update, and yes I was REALLY annoyed.
Fact: I returned recently (2-3 months back) and game (on my "medium" server) is just as lively as it was when I took a break some 6-7 months ago.
Very, VERY different compared to AoC, WoW or even Aion...
If you feel an urge to pull the "screenshot or it didnt happen" card: PM me for a guild invite...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
I have several times and am not going to do it again, but when I shows these figures they somehow don't count. So as I said, we can't be sure unless we see actual stats from devs.
Not the stupid "We have 2 million players" that Neverwinter recently released. Something like "We have 200k active users in the last month" would be more impressive.
It is all of Xfire that is in decline.
WoW in Jan'12 used to have around 15K players and some 100K hours.
By Sep'12 when GW2 launched, it had like 7K players and 25K hours.
Now WoW has 2800 players and 13K hours.
GW2 has 6.5K hours and 1600 players.
Even LoL has 16K players and 70K hours vs 30K players and 100K hours in Sep'12.
If Xfire is representative than WoW lost some 80% of its population. It hasn't. We know that.
Xfire is dying and it isn't a useful tool any longer. Sure, there aren't many others but that doesn't mean using wrong tools is acceptable.
sPvP is a very niche segment of GW2, and so far it has failed to get any traction as an eSport. No doubts about that. But 150 peeps is basically a battle in WvW and you have a couple of those in any of the 4 maps or you have 50-100 peeps in any World Boss with a chest or in the Pavillion crown (where I'm always in overflow).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah Raptr has taken over Xfire and has a significantly larger sample (I believe it is 20+ million users). I only look at Xfire to see trends as they post their data by month/week, which Raptr doesn't.
Sorry... You are just lipflapping.
200K active players in GW2 would be an understatement... Not by a factor 1:10, but an understatement still.
But hey: Jump right in... Guest a few servers, join a guild or two and enjoy anecdotal evidence: Game is doing a hell of a lot better than other MMO-like games...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
You need to make sure the data you are providing actually says what you think it does.
Xfire numbers aren't as representative as most people think.
Financial reports reflect sales. In this case 'box sales', which anyone familiar w/ GW2 knows it doesn't really apply (most of GW2's revenue is NOT from the box. It's also a game where expansion content is freely provided, so they aren't padding their box sales with expansions.
IF you can get accurate population numbers, directly from the company, those are usually reliable-ish. However, they are usually rough estimates if you're lucky. Most companies don't release those true numbers, because it doesn't benefit them in the slightest, and can even do a lot of harm if they aren't careful.
- People can post server pops (not numbers; but full, very high, medium, etc.). This data has been dynamically collected, and there are many tools for GW2 that do everything from compare servers, to follow events, to follow group activity.
- People can post the WvW ques that still pop up regularly for all maps. Or screenshots of the boss events, in which there are so many people on the screen, that many of them are being culled (pop in / out of visibility).
- People can post screens of the sPvP servers, which while still a somewhat more niche part of the game, are still fairly active.
However, for some of you that means nothing. You'd rather discount actual in-game evidence, in favor of arbitrary 3rd party data, of which people have no correlation to draw from. That's just bad science.
I said Neverwinter, read it again.
I see nothing here that is "in-game evidence". Where are the numbers? Any concrete data? You presenting screenshots as evidence and call things like Raptr "arbitrary"? You know one thing we can actually measure in game? It is the sPvP population. You said it was "fairly active". But go to the Mists and check it out yourself, during peak times there are about 300-500 people in there across all servers. Is that "fairly active" to you?
Sorry I missed that. All your posts seemed to revolve around GW2,
No harm done - By all means keep talking about Neverwinter in relevant forums...
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
We will never know. I am in Lion's Arch in Eredon's Terrace right now, and it is labeled "High". There are about 15 people combined near the bank/trader broker and the area in between. And only one thing has been said in chat for the last 10 minutes.
It was an example I used, I wasn't actually talking about Neverwinter.
According to Arenanet, they increased the population caps in each server several times now.
2 or 3 times during the first two weeks and then maybe another 2 times since.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
In Desolation (Very High) it looks like this.
This is just by the bank entrance and obviously there is culling and whatnot.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Sorry - Now I'm just lost...
I simply do NOT understand your "example"...
I need to reread, because you (implicitly) referred to Neverwinter in a GW2 convo. And your remark "I said Neverwinter, read it again". was:
1. Misread by me...
2. An example to emphasize something regarding GW2 pop being lower than (insert x-game)???
Hmm seriously "SomuchM***: On my way to bed - Giving the single-malt a rest... I suggest you do the same :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
I wasn't talking about Neverwinter. I said devs need to bring out actual numbers that matter and not PR talk. When Tera says it has 4+ million players, it means nothing. When GW2 says it sold 3 million copies it means nothing. When Neverwinter says it has 2 million player it means nothing.
A better metric would be active players. Either within the last month or even 3 months.
Seems like a huge discrepancy between Very High and High. Go guest on ER and check it out yourself.
Can't - Eredon is NA and Desolation is EU.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Really? I never heard this. I don't want to be petty, but I'm going to need proof to actually be won over. I definitely could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. Even if it does end up being the case, them saying that will not substitute for the actually numbers.
For example.
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Server-capacity-increased-again/first#post1799655
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_status_updates/Archive_1#Wednesday.2C_August_29.2C_2012
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
So I actually went to guest over there.
Around 30 people in JUST that area.
Looks like it's also one of the three least populated servers... in a game where at any point in time you can guest to a more populated server (Which can be useful for various purposes). During a time when Lion's Arch is at an all time low because so many people are running around in DR.
Not amazing, but not bad. I did notice you picked what is quite possibly the lowest population server that Arenanet has. Certainly in the bottom 3.