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NCsoft quarterly report is out... not looking good for gw2...

caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
Numbers don't lie fellas...

http://www.ncsoft.net/global/ir/earnings.aspx
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Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/14/ncsoft-sales-are-up-income-is-down/


    So what's fueling these numbers? Lineage 1 remains the backbone of NCsoft's financials, boasting "an all-time high" in the sales department. Aion is reportedly doing well in China, and Guild Wars 2 is providing "stable" profits.

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    I'll go by the official earnings reports over massively's article of opinions... but you are free to try and spin the numbers if you want.
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon

    GW2 is, apparently, doing quite well. Also, TC's post history makes me smile. No wonder I though I'd seen this guy somewhere.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by caetftl
    I'll go by the official earnings reports over massively's article of opinions... but you are free to try and spin the numbers if you want.

    read page 4 header of the ncsoft report

     

    Revenues grew on the back of historical high L1 and stable GW2 OP also increased reflecting solid revenues and limited increase in expenses

     

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by caetftl
    I'll go by the official earnings reports over massively's article of opinions... but you are free to try and spin the numbers if you want.

    read page 4 header of the ncsoft report

     

    Revenues grew on the back of historical high L1 and stable GW2 OP also increased reflecting solid revenues and limited increase in expenses

     

     

    I prefer the actual numbers, which are down 20% from last quarter... Also operating profits while important, aren't nearly as telling as sales.... Operating profit could be increased for example, by the initial wave of release players quitting, so anet being able to layoff CSR staff because they are only supporting a fraction of the initial customers. That is an example of a way you can increase your operating profit, by lowering operating cost.
  • nastyjmannastyjman New York, NYPosts: 161Member
    Oh no! Profits are down, better stop playing and enjoying teh game. /s
  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    Meh, I don't really care what anyone says about numbers, that's the developer's job.  This same shtick comes out when Blizzard releases their quarterly reports.  It doesn't matter to me one bit.  I wouldn't care if Blizzard lost 6 million players in the next quarter...I'm still playing and having a good time, for me, that's all that matters.  If you care about what everyone else is doing, then more power to you, but I'm sure I can't be the only one that couldn't care less about numbers in any game.

     

    Reminds me of iPhones.  Anyone that knows anything about the main phones, they'll tell you that iPhones are poorly made.  Breathe on one, and watch what happens...it'll probably break lol.  But everyone has to have an iPhone because everyone has to have one...no thanks.  I want a phone that can fall out of my holster, slide down off a roof and land on a sidwalk of concrete, and the only damage is a chip in the corner paint...thanks samsung :)

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    Meh, I don't really care what anyone says about numbers, that's the developer's job.  This same shtick comes out when Blizzard releases their quarterly reports.  It doesn't matter to me one bit.  I wouldn't care if Blizzard lost 6 million players in the next quarter...I'm still playing and having a good time, for me, that's all that matters.  If you care about what everyone else is doing, then more power to you, but I'm sure I can't be the only one that couldn't care less about numbers in any game.

     

    It's pretty intuitive to care about numbers, because MMOs are a business first unfortunately, and if the numbers aren't good the game usually suffers for it.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by caetftl
    I'll go by the official earnings reports over massively's article of opinions... but you are free to try and spin the numbers if you want.

    read page 4 header of the ncsoft report

    Revenues grew on the back of historical high L1 and stable GW2 OP also increased reflecting solid revenues and limited increase in expenses

    I prefer the actual numbers, which are down 20% from last quarter...

    whos twisting ?  

    I quoted the financial highlights of the ncsoft report and you have your personal twist on what ncsoft reported

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Meh, I don't really care what anyone says about numbers, that's the developer's job.  This same shtick comes out when Blizzard releases their quarterly reports.  It doesn't matter to me one bit.  I wouldn't care if Blizzard lost 6 million players in the next quarter...I'm still playing and having a good time, for me, that's all that matters.  If you care about what everyone else is doing, then more power to you, but I'm sure I can't be the only one that couldn't care less about numbers in any game.

     

    It's pretty intuitive to care about numbers, because MMOs are a business first unfortunately, and if the numbers aren't good the game usually suffers for it.

    I'll play the game until it isn't fun anymore.  If it's due to money problems or something, that doesn't matter to me...there's plenty of other games to play.  I'm just saying that it really doesn't matter to me.

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    Does that show just the sales figures cause most companies or I should say mmo's do count monthly fees as sales and GW2 has none they only have there Store and I can tell you on my server people use it. But like you I have no factual proof of what A-net makes from there earning from the store or sales. See NC-Soft is the publisher not the producer of the game its the same with many companies they help get the game going by publishing it and only take so much of the total earnings NCsoft owns Lineage 1 and 2 but they dont own A-net so just because you see figure it means little to the actual amount they could be making for all we know A-net could be making above WoW but we don't know we don't have those figures. Thats why this does not count in if the games doing well or not.

    Hers a fact GW2 would have to be making money or A-net would not be looking for graphics designers, Q&A, and many more employees right now on there site they would be letting people go.

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    Guild Wars 2 went from $32.5 million the previous quarter down to $25.8 million this quarter.


    Why are the GW2 fans being so hardcore defensive?


    It didnt make as much money, its a fact.

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by caetftl
    I'll go by the official earnings reports over massively's article of opinions... but you are free to try and spin the numbers if you want.

    read page 4 header of the ncsoft report

    Revenues grew on the back of historical high L1 and stable GW2 OP also increased reflecting solid revenues and limited increase in expenses

    I prefer the actual numbers, which are down 20% from last quarter...

    whos twisting ?  

    I quoted the financial highlights of the ncsoft report and you have your personal twist on what ncsoft reported

     

    I actually didn't twist anything, I am talking about sales, you are talking about operating profit, which can actually temporarily grow as a game tapers off in success.

    Things like lowering staff as a game loses players, lowering bandwidth as there is less demand on the game etc... can increase operating profit by lowering operating cost.

    As I said the numbers are numbers... you may care more about the fluff, but I care more about the accounting, because money speaks most in this industry.

    Operating profits can be related to internal decisions, sales themselves are directly indicative of the demand in the game.... and sales are down 20%
  • IkonicIkonic Clarksville, TNPosts: 303Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nolic1

    Does that show just the sales figures cause most companies or I should say mmo's do count monthly fees as sales and GW2 has none they only have there Store and I can tell you on my server people use it. But like you I have no factual proof of what A-net makes from there earning from the store or sales. See NC-Soft is the publisher not the producer of the game its the same with many companies they help get the game going by publishing it and only take so much of the total earnings NCsoft owns Lineage 1 and 2 but they dont own A-net so just because you see figure it means little to the actual amount they could be making for all we know A-net could be making above WoW but we don't know we don't have those figures. Thats why this does not count in if the games doing well or not.

    Hers a fact GW2 would have to be making money or A-net would not be looking for graphics designers, Q&A, and many more employees right now on there site they would be letting people go.

    NCsoft no longer owns ArenaNet? 

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Guild Wars 2 went from $32.5 million the previous quarter down to $25.8 million this quarter.
    Why are the GW2 fans being so hardcore defensive?
    It didnt make as much money, its a fact.

     

    This is good news for everyone, if it remained successful we would have got more gw2 clones, we only need one of those, one is more than enough. Hopefully this next quarter it drops at least another 10 million annd with a little luck they will have shut servers down. Send the game world a message "We hate these crappy games, please stop making them!!!"
  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by Rockniss

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Guild Wars 2 went from $32.5 million the previous quarter down to $25.8 million this quarter.
    Why are the GW2 fans being so hardcore defensive?
    It didnt make as much money, its a fact.

     

    This is good news for everyone, if it remained successful we would have got more gw2 clones, we only need one of those, one is more than enough. Hopefully this next quarter it drops at least another 10 million annd with a little luck they will have shut servers down. Send the game world a message "We hate these crappy games, please stop making them!!!"

     

    GW2 will have another temporary spike when they release in china... but the game is too shallow for chinese players to stay interested long term. Not only do chinese mmo players tend to prefer more challenging games, there is much more competition in china in the f2p mmo market than over in the west.
  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by ichihaifu
    [mod edit]

     

    I know it's crazy to me to see that game still doing so well, but it can run on any computer these days pretty much and has so much momentum.
  • HappyThoughtsHappyThoughts Thunderdome, LAPosts: 22Member
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    GW2 is, apparently, doing quite well. Also, TC's post history makes me smile. No wonder I though I'd seen this guy somewhere.

     

    It's down 20% from last quarter... As I said before, the numbers don't lie... people will try to spin them, but I prefer to deal in reality... and the numbers are numbers...

     Isnt that what you are trying to do?  Spin numbers?

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by viruzex

    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    GW2 is, apparently, doing quite well. Also, TC's post history makes me smile. No wonder I though I'd seen this guy somewhere.

     

    It's down 20% from last quarter... As I said before, the numbers don't lie... people will try to spin them, but I prefer to deal in reality... and the numbers are numbers...

     Isnt that what you are trying to do?  Spin numbers?

     

    Not at all, their sales are down 20% there is no spin to that, that is fact....
  • teakbois2112teakbois2112 metuchen, NJPosts: 47Member

    This site has all kinds of hopeful people that believe something that is false because they desperately wish it would be true.  The GW2 is a failure/doing poorly group are one of the most prominent examples of this.

    GW2 was a success.

    Its still VERY popular.

     

    Even though GW2 is only game of a very large portfolio, a mediocre company report clearly means the end is near for GW2!!!!

     

     

  • ZandilZandil templestowePosts: 234Member Uncommon
    Who cares what the numbers say, it's this simple if you like the game play it if you don't like it don't play it.

    image
  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nolic1

    Does that show just the sales figures cause most companies or I should say mmo's do count monthly fees as sales and GW2 has none they only have there Store and I can tell you on my server people use it. But like you I have no factual proof of what A-net makes from there earning from the store or sales. See NC-Soft is the publisher not the producer of the game its the same with many companies they help get the game going by publishing it and only take so much of the total earnings NCsoft owns Lineage 1 and 2 but they dont own A-net so just because you see figure it means little to the actual amount they could be making for all we know A-net could be making above WoW but we don't know we don't have those figures. Thats why this does not count in if the games doing well or not.

    Hers a fact GW2 would have to be making money or A-net would not be looking for graphics designers, Q&A, and many more employees right now on there site they would be letting people go.

    They do own ArenaNet. They were acquired by NCSoft in 2002. They may take a hands off approach, but they still own ArenaNet and ArenaNet still reports to them.

    That isn't necessarily true. Some companies respond as you described, and others throw money at the situation to fix it. This is especially true of companies who are reliant on a sole product for as a revenue stream. This is obviously the case as the original Guild Wars isn't producing a significant enough profit to be accounted for individually in the earnings report. I was in a similar situation in a company recently where we tried to stem a decline by throwing more money and personnel into development. Unfortunately it didn't work for us.  There is most like a reason for ArenaNet's change in direction for Guild Wars 2. Obviously they weren't getting the results from previous plan so they have gone to this bi-monthly update plan to try to increase profits. I have to commend them for recognizing a need for a change and attempting to implement something different. Not many companies would do that. 

    I don't understand the surprise at the drop in box sales. It is a B2P game and they will eventually saturate the market with their sales. This happens with every game to include P2P ones. Their cash shop sales are what matter and I would imagine this change in direction on the development of new content is meant to increase those. What will be interesting will be the next report to see if these changes have had an impact. Only time will tell if they will be able to sustain this style of development pace.

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member

    The game is buy to play.  They cannot sustain unit sales forever, and I doubt they expected to.  The game is making profit and relying more and more on the CS for revenue.  What is the issue here?  It has less and less sales since the quarter it launched.  That does not indicate the game is dying.  The question I have to the OP is what do you hope to gain from pointing out what NCsoft has made public?

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ikonic
    Originally posted by nolic1

    Does that show just the sales figures cause most companies or I should say mmo's do count monthly fees as sales and GW2 has none they only have there Store and I can tell you on my server people use it. But like you I have no factual proof of what A-net makes from there earning from the store or sales. See NC-Soft is the publisher not the producer of the game its the same with many companies they help get the game going by publishing it and only take so much of the total earnings NCsoft owns Lineage 1 and 2 but they dont own A-net so just because you see figure it means little to the actual amount they could be making for all we know A-net could be making above WoW but we don't know we don't have those figures. Thats why this does not count in if the games doing well or not.

    Hers a fact GW2 would have to be making money or A-net would not be looking for graphics designers, Q&A, and many more employees right now on there site they would be letting people go.

    NCsoft no longer owns ArenaNet? 

    You're correct they do own a part of it. 

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • caetftlcaetftl Los Angeles, CAPosts: 358Member
    Originally posted by nolic1

    Originally posted by Ikonic
    Originally posted by nolic1
    Does that show just the sales figures cause most companies or I should say mmo's do count monthly fees as sales and GW2 has none they only have there Store and I can tell you on my server people use it. But like you I have no factual proof of what A-net makes from there earning from the store or sales. See NC-Soft is the publisher not the producer of the game its the same with many companies they help get the game going by publishing it and only take so much of the total earnings NCsoft owns Lineage 1 and 2 but they dont own A-net so just because you see figure it means little to the actual amount they could be making for all we know A-net could be making above WoW but we don't know we don't have those figures. Thats why this does not count in if the games doing well or not. Hers a fact GW2 would have to be making money or A-net would not be looking for graphics designers, Q&A, and many more employees right now on there site they would be letting people go.

    NCsoft no longer owns ArenaNet? 

    You're correct they do own a part of it. 

     

    Let's not try to downplay how much they own, they are the parent company of anet.
    Originally posted by vmoped

    The game is buy to play. They cannot sustain unit sales forever, and I doubt they expected to. The game is making profit and relying more and more on the CS for revenue. What is the issue here? It has less and less sales since the quarter it launched. That does not indicate the game is dying. The question I have to the OP is what do you hope to gain from pointing out what NCsoft has made public?Cheers!

    The point i'm trying to make is simple... I am trying to give people real evidence to formulate their perceptions on. I am a firm believer in education and knowledge...I prefer people to discuss things with a proper understanding of them, instead of just making wild assumptions.

    A lot of gw2 players here try to misrepresent how well gw2 is doing. Some even believed it was capable of retaining 80+% of the playerbase. I myself just want to make sure as many people as possible can see real facts.

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