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This is how some GIGANTIC BOSS fights should be in EQN and Next Gen MMOS in general

ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
But of course with more group oriented mechanics.  Big boss fights should give the EPIC feeling like this.  And not just hitting his ankles.  In every mmo you fight the every type of mob the same way.  Fighting a giant monster should be a totally different tactic and gameplay from fighting a normal small mob, not just targeting it and spam your best skills.
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Comments

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Here is an even bigger one
  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon

    Been there, done that:

     

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,451Member Uncommon

    Umm NO,that first video is rubbish.all the graphics are fogged out,there is only one color on the entire map,even the players is a grayish green color.

     

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Umm NO,that first video is rubbish.all the graphics are fogged out,there is only one color on the entire map,even the players is a grayish green color.

    I wasnt talking about the graphics, just how you fight giant bosses.

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon

    I would like to see something totally different. Let the (world) boss be big but able to use the surrounding area basically as a weapon (trees, rocks, the ground, etc). Seeing as the game is voxel, why not.

    Impress me.

     

    Edit -

    Scripted fights are becoming super boring.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

     

     

    Ummm no thats not what I mean, your just standing on his back hitting him like any other mob.  Im talking about climbing up, making him trip, trapping him, and other types of mechanics other than just tab target and spam skills.

  • KarbleKarble San Diego, CAPosts: 741Member

    World of Warcraft already did that to some capacity.

    I even remember a quest in Wrath of the Litch King where you got on top of a huge titan thing and used it to  crush large numbers of creatures in mass on the ground. It was quite fun. I don't think it's out of the question technology-wise and may be put in at some point..never know. What I hope for now though is the rest of the mechanics all work well together and that the  game gets released in a timely manor.

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

     

     

    Ummm no thats not what I mean, your just standing on his back hitting him like any other mob.  Im talking about climbing up, making him trip, trapping him, and other types of mechanics other than just tab target and spam skills.

    After playing GW2 and seeing how people couldn't simply jump 5 feet to an equal platform this, in my own opinion, would be hilarious to watch but it might be "too hard" for the general population.

    Would I like to see it done? Yes, I am all for progression that involves thinking and strategy. But I would be worried that the mass majority of people would complain and things would get "nerfed" down to "What number comes after 2?" fights.

     

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

    Ummm no thats not what I mean, your just standing on his back hitting him like any other mob.  Im talking about climbing up, making him trip, trapping him, and other types of mechanics other than just tab target and spam skills.

    Oh, so you mean like... every boss fight in God of War games?

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,458Member Uncommon

    I like it OP,.

    And I agree. As opposed to hitting at the bosses feet for 20 minutes and then he dies.

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

    Ummm no thats not what I mean, your just standing on his back hitting him like any other mob.  Im talking about climbing up, making him trip, trapping him, and other types of mechanics other than just tab target and spam skills.

    Oh, so you mean like... every boss fight in God of War games?

     

    Not exactly, god of war uses too many quicktime events but yes to the epicness.  Im talking more in the lines of this game and Dragons Dogma where there are no quick time events and scripted parts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkpIqQwrpyM 

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I like it OP,.

    And I agree. As opposed to hitting at the bosses feet for 20 minutes and then he dies.

     

    I agree how dumb it is hitting a giants toes for 3k crit really gets to get old after a while. But... how would this work in a raid? I to would love to see new ideas taken into boss fights =-)


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Now I want to buy ICO/Shadow of the Colossus on my PS3....
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Now I want to buy ICO/Shadow of the Colossus on my PS3....

    Those games were amazing for their time especially coming out in the PS2 era.  I cant wait for the next one coming for PS4 but it keeps getting delayed.

  • veritas723veritas723 ny, NYPosts: 38Member

    dynamic would never work in an MMO   ...even the simple aspects of the camera tracking would be a nightmare for a mmo to pull off.   how would that work with 10-15 -25-40 people each moving independently,  or having a different view

     

    nor would it be any fun.  essentially all that fight was, was some incredibly slow and obvious dodge giant rock thing mechanics and then a jump up and kill the glyphs?  

    i try and imagine a 10/25 group  doing that.   be a lot of standing around, and then a lot of jumping death.   

     

    also, imagine the silly of seeing large groups of people hanging by their fingertips on the edge of some giant monster.  would ruin the effect.  

     

    while i think mmos do need to step up their game.  from auto-track,  button spam that is going to be WoW's greatest enduring stain on mmo gaming.    there are interesting ways to incorporate large scale mobs while not being the silly ankle biter dynamics of WoW  and then just having particle spam.

     

    I also think mmos could do more to go smaller.  large group raids, that require groups to branch off and acomplish many small goals in concert  or... have various points of the map defended,  to enable exit ... instead of the same ultra tired.  trash wave, trash wave,  mini boss,  trash wave, trash wave.  main boss dynamic.  

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,458Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I like it OP,.

    And I agree. As opposed to hitting at the bosses feet for 20 minutes and then he dies.

     

    I agree how dumb it is hitting a giants toes for 3k crit really gets to get old after a while. But... how would this work in a raid? I to would love to see new ideas taken into boss fights =-)

    My thought is that players would have to find climable areas and that only a limited amount of players would be able to navigate the body.

    Then some players could either attack at range or "distract" the monster with melee. However, the monster could also move and shake players off.

    There very well could be several attack points on the body which players need to weaken.

     

  • TyranusPrimeTyranusPrime Sea of JapanPosts: 101Member Uncommon

    Interesting thought, tkreep.. I have contemplated the epic scale/gigantic boss battles before, but never thought about Shadow of the Colossus's take on it for an MMO.. Hmm.. I'll have to give it more thought.. *ponders*

     

    The standard "hit the boss's feet" might indeed need some tweaking after all this time.. Who knows when some canny villain will begin selling "Nike armored foot-gear for bosses" cause then we are all in trouble.. :)

    You have your fear, which might become reality; and you have Godzilla, which IS reality. - Ogata

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by veritas723

    dynamic would never work in an MMO   ...even the simple aspects of the camera tracking would be a nightmare for a mmo to pull off.   how would that work with 10-15 -25-40 people each moving independently,  or having a different view

     

    nor would it be any fun.  essentially all that fight was, was some incredibly slow and obvious dodge giant rock thing mechanics and then a jump up and kill the glyphs?  

    There are other bosses in that game that require different ways to kill them and are faster too, those were just two examples out of the 16 bosses in the game.  There are also flying, serpentine, and bosses that runs around fast where you had to use the horse to chase after it.

    But I understand that it would be different for groups of people trying to do this.  In mmos if theres a giant boss people in the group could be handling different body parts to cripple him or using environment and weapons like ballistas to also cripple him and maybe fight waves of smaller adds, while someone else in the group is trying to climb up to his weakest points and the rest of the group are keeping the boss down while he climbs. 

    Just try to envision all the movies where they have multiple people trying to take down a giant robot or monster, it would be something similar to that in a video game format. Kind of like in Gullivers Travels, or in Lord of the Rings they were taking down those big mammoth looking creatures. 

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I like it OP,.

    And I agree. As opposed to hitting at the bosses feet for 20 minutes and then he dies.

    I agree how dumb it is hitting a giants toes for 3k crit really gets to get old after a while. But... how would this work in a raid? I to would love to see new ideas taken into boss fights =-)

    My thought is that players would have to find climable areas and that only a limited amount of players would be able to navigate the body.

    Then some players could either attack at range or "distract" the monster with melee. However, the monster could also move and shake players off.

    There very well could be several attack points on the body which players need to weaken.

    I really like that idea.

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Good luck convincing people tkreep. If it is not a scripted snooze fest then it is not good enough for MMORPG players.

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,458Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by veritas723

    dynamic would never work in an MMO   ...even the simple aspects of the camera tracking would be a nightmare for a mmo to pull off.   how would that work with 10-15 -25-40 people each moving independently,  or having a different view

     

    nor would it be any fun.  essentially all that fight was, was some incredibly slow and obvious dodge giant rock thing mechanics and then a jump up and kill the glyphs?  

    i try and imagine a 10/25 group  doing that.   be a lot of standing around, and then a lot of jumping death.   

     

    also, imagine the silly of seeing large groups of people hanging by their fingertips on the edge of some giant monster.  would ruin the effect.  

     

    while i think mmos do need to step up their game.  from auto-track,  button spam that is going to be WoW's greatest enduring stain on mmo gaming.    there are interesting ways to incorporate large scale mobs while not being the silly ankle biter dynamics of WoW  and then just having particle spam.

     

    I also think mmos could do more to go smaller.  large group raids, that require groups to branch off and acomplish many small goals in concert  or... have various points of the map defended,  to enable exit ... instead of the same ultra tired.  trash wave, trash wave,  mini boss,  trash wave, trash wave.  main boss dynamic.  

    I don't think the camera would be an issue if the developers made a lot of space to allow for a large pan of the camera.

    They could either implement a good first person view (maybe something like mirror's edge?) or make it so the camera could, as mentioned, pan out.

    Only a limited amount of players would be able to do this. Having said that, the damage of falling/being shaken or "raked" off could be severe.

    I don't think having players crawling up a beast would be silly at all. It would certainly seem more realistic.

    Maybe part of the challenge is that players only have certain windows of opportunity to get "some" people up so there are different teams who have to do x, y and z in order to enable some sort of "boarding" party.

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,554Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Heretique
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

     

     

    Ummm no thats not what I mean, your just standing on his back hitting him like any other mob.  Im talking about climbing up, making him trip, trapping him, and other types of mechanics other than just tab target and spam skills.

    After playing GW2 and seeing how people couldn't simply jump 5 feet to an equal platform this, in my own opinion, would be hilarious to watch but it might be "too hard" for the general population.

    Would I like to see it done? Yes, I am all for progression that involves thinking and strategy. But I would be worried that the mass majority of people would complain and things would get "nerfed" down to "What number comes after 2?" fights.

     

    You are right seeing how Nintendo tested some players who couldnt beat the first level of the original Mario and thought the coins were enemies. lol

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Good luck convincing people tkreep. If it is not a scripted snooze fest then it is not good enough for MMORPG players.

    we're PvE'rs we love scripted epic fights. You can keep ganking lowbies, leave us alone to slay dragons.

    image

  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    Been there, done that:

     

     

    Standing there spamming keys while colorful numbers and words fill the screen isn't going to give you the same feeling shadow of the colossus gives you.

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Good luck convincing people tkreep. If it is not a scripted snooze fest then it is not good enough for MMORPG players.

    we're PvE'rs we love scripted epic fights. You can keep ganking lowbies, leave us alone to slay dragons.

    He doesn't speak for all PVErs. MMO's need more dynamic, changing, tactics-requiring content - period. From lev one fighting rats to taking on demons or gods. If some of the party doesn't die or come close or you never needed to change tactics then the devs have failed at their jobs.

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