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How can the console be bad for EQN?

Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?
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Comments

  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon

    Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If  game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles.  PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.

     

    Of course SOE is selling it to you as cartoon graphics and few abilities. Comically people here eat it up and defend the idea as if it "is what is best" when in reality they are simply being told what to think.

     

     

    Edit: Something else to add as well. PC's make advancements all the time. Every year or two things are improving. This allows MMORPG to evolve into more sophisticated games over their life. EQ1 for example is light years ahead of where it was tech wise at release. Now what if a game is on console? Consoles do not evolve during their lifetime. They run until played out and then a new generation comes out. So by focusing the game on consoles SOE is basically limiting any advancement to what this generation of consoles can handle.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    I understand that it has to be optimized for the system. But wouldn't just be a flick of switch to like medium or low graphics? I am going to play on PC, because it is more powerful. But I don't understand how it would effect me as a pc gamer if this cross platform.
  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    To your edit. But they are specifically targeting PC gamers first. The developers already stated its PC first and foremost. After the PC product is out then they will look at the possibility of consoles later.
  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burdoc101
    To your edit. But they are specifically targeting PC gamers first. The developers already stated its PC first and foremost. After the PC product is out then they will look at the possibility of consoles later.

     

    What they say and what they are actually doing is two different things. They aren't going to come out and say "ya we are focusing this on consoles" look at the backlash they are already getting just from people reading between the lines.

    It would make absolutely no sense to build a game for PC first and then maybe port it to console. If it were truly built for PC, a console could never handle it. The only chance EQnext ever has of making it to console is if it is being built from the ground up with that in mind. The combat and graphics tell me that is exactly what is happening.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,449Member Uncommon
    The New Playstation is suppose to be plenty good for any game on the market and seeing how EQN will be a bit on the lower end,it should be fine on console.Same goes for the new xbox as well,however i get the feeling it will only be  a Playstation title.


    Samoan Diamond

  • ghorgosghorgos NirgendwoPosts: 190Member Uncommon

    Well most technical issue for the consoles are gone with the new generation but the mindset for design of console games is still there. Lets assume this mindset would not affect EQN that would leave us with the remaining issues. One of the biggest is the controls and as a result of this the ui. Not having a keyboard is with a single exception a minor issue as a gamepad can have a lot buttons/combinations as well. The single exception is not being able to chat and thats a huge issue. Voice chat isn't a solution that works outside of groups and a good mmo involves much more communication. The second and huge issue with the consoles is the lack of the mouse. I don't realy have words for how big that issue realy is...just try to play a couple of pc games(no console-ports and no pure action games) without your mouse. There are workarounds for the mouse-part but this means a highly altered ui for the game and usualy this ui is horrible compared to what is posible on pc resulting in a game that simply is below its potential.

     

    Of course there is always the solution of using mouse/keyboard for the console but most sonole players don't do that and pretty much none of the developers wants to force them.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar

    Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If  game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles.  PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.

    Power wise, both PS4 and XBOne are much more powerful than the average modern PC and could easily max all current MMOs. If we were talking about the current, outdated generation of consoles, you'd be right, but not in this case.

    No, the thing that could really harm EQN is the way consoles are controlled. Console games have to work well with controllers and that often leads to consolitis in UI and gameplay design. Defiance is a good example of this.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Looking at some of the PS4 games, graphics aren't to shabby. They are no NVidia Titans, but still for the average gamer I could see it running EQN just fine. And at E3 most of the games from Xbox one to PS4 were actually being run on computer with NVidia to show off the game better. And some of the best console games were fully developed on pcs first then dumb down later in the process. Those games are (some) of the best ports.
  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Vutar

    Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If  game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles.  PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.

    Power wise, both PS4 and XBOne are much more powerful than the average modern PC and could easily max all current MMOs. If we were talking about the current, outdated generation of consoles, you'd be right, but not in this case.

    No, the thing that could really harm EQN is the way consoles are controlled. Console games have to work well with controllers and that often leads to consolitis in UI and gameplay design. Defiance is a good example of this.

     

    No point even arguing if you believe that.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member

    Besides the difficulties of porting the game to consoles. Is there anything negative to the PC consumer? So far the only one I have spotted is chat. And UI it seems would just be changed for the console?

     

    [EDIT]

    When I say chat, I am talking about cross platform talk. Maybe they can have some type of FFXI quick chat buttons?

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Actually the timing is pretty good for a console port. Usually new consoles when they come out are comparable in horsepower to lower mid range gaming desktops, which is precisely the performance curve SOE is shooting for.
  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,034Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vutar
    No point even arguing if you believe that.

    Even if not true (I am do not know the specs that well of the PS4, so can not judge) MMO often are aimed at lower-end machines anyway. So I am sure it will not even make full use of the power of the console anyway. However when talking about growth then your defintly right. Look at long running games like EQ1 and even RuneScape. They all graphicly evolve and help them to stay healty. 

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,034Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn16BUL-Fc8

    Because those people do not have a PC. I mean everyone who owns a console will never ever play a MMO on a PC. Right?

  • trinixtrinix ZwollePosts: 51Member Uncommon

    There are a lot of small issues with porting it to consoles. First we have to wonder if the game is not pre-butchered like others are mentioning. That you only end up with 8 buttons or something like that. While I do understand why people wonder this, I do think it adds to a game to have less buttons. I don't want EQ2's 50 buttons on my screen and a tiny window of view. My problem is what they decided to do with the 8 buttons that's more of an issue than the controller limit though.

    You always have to consider that they lie, deceive or tell up front but it's still no good, and they make a console version and port it to the computer. You will see translation errors (press random xbox/ps4 button rather than the pc button that has it), you see the graphics being pushed back, you see the controls feeling sluggish without a gamepad and the need for the one or two analog sticks. 

    Keyboard. People don't understand how important communication with the keyboard is. That's your way of asking for help, talking to people, discussing things, disagreeing or agreeing on builds and how your class is played, grouping, communicating.

    And to people who think consoles are ahead you do realize that most gamers run 1 mid end graphics card. You know how often I was looking at the new release of cards or cpu's and think oh cool, time to get a new one. Then a minute later oh wait, why would I buy a new piece of computer gear if every game I play plays on max or high, I have zero issues with anything and no need to upgrade at all. If tomorrow the new consoles would be released everyone would buy a new mid-end graphics card, some people might have to upgrade their core2 cpus maybe and after that play on high and max for the next 5-8 years, because high end cards are useless with ports. It's not that gamers don't have high end cards because they can't buy them, but more that they don't have high end cards because they don't need it. 

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Actually the timing is pretty good for a console port. Usually new consoles when they come out are comparable in horsepower to lower mid range gaming desktops, which is precisely the performance curve SOE is shooting for.

    The new consoles should have video cards similar to a 7870 power wise, decent 8-core CPUs and 8 Gb of RAM. They're noticeably more powerful than the PCs MMORPGs are generally made for. As usual, their fixed architecture also allows for better optimization

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    I'm just going to wait for the ps4 version myself. I would like to play day one, but I would also rather play it on ps4, so when thier ready I will be too. In the meantime bring on ESO, Destiny, PS2, FF ARR, The Division, and all the other goodness coming down the pipe.
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,984Member Uncommon

    I see 2 problems:

    1. Controls. A PC game and a console game should really have rather different controls and for good reasons. If they actually bother to make separate combat mechanics for the different version then fine but if they want both versions to be exactly the same neither get as fun as they should have been if the game were for that platform only.

    2. Bad porting. If the PS4 version suck all the bad talk on the net would hurt PC sales as well and cost many potential players. We seen more than a few bad ports from PC to console or the other way around.

    Dumbing down menues and combat mechanics so the game can run on both the platforms would be a very bad decision, if they instead could use the different systems advantages right the game could be great on both platforms but that takes more work than a bad compromize so most companies go for the later.

    And of course, console players and PC players should not play on the same servers.

     

  • ujbeenujbeen Boston, MAPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by Vutar

    Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If  game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles.  PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.

     

    Of course SOE is selling it to you as cartoon graphics and few abilities. Comically people here eat it up and defend the idea as if it "is what is best" when in reality they are simply being told what to think.

     

     

    Edit: Something else to add as well. PC's make advancements all the time. Every year or two things are improving. This allows MMORPG to evolve into more sophisticated games over their life. EQ1 for example is light years ahead of where it was tech wise at release. Now what if a game is on console? Consoles do not evolve during their lifetime. They run until played out and then a new generation comes out. So by focusing the game on consoles SOE is basically limiting any advancement to what this generation of consoles can handle.

     

    Originally posted by Loke666

    I see 2 problems:

    1. Controls. A PC game and a console game should really have rather different controls and for good reasons. If they actually bother to make separate combat mechanics for the different version then fine but if they want both versions to be exactly the same neither get as fun as they should have been if the game were for that platform only.

    2. Bad porting. If the PS4 version suck all the bad talk on the net would hurt PC sales as well and cost many potential players. We seen more than a few bad ports from PC to console or the other way around.

    Dumbing down menues and combat mechanics so the game can run on both the platforms would be a very bad decision, if they instead could use the different systems advantages right the game could be great on both platforms but that takes more work than a bad compromize so most companies go for the later.

    And of course, console players and PC players should not play on the same servers.

     

     

    Just truth here, seriously. Good posts.

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor FalkirkPosts: 222Member Uncommon

    We don't want the KKK* in our MMOs! They should have been PC only from the word go.

    The anti-social disease is already killing MMOs without brats with no keyboards spurting "Faster! Pick me! now! more!" on vent or TS. :(

     

    *Konsole Kiddies Klub! ;)

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    Ah the old pc versus console debate. You guys realize EQOA and FFXI both came out on consoles right? Besides they are taking a pc first approach. Any adjustments made for console on the pc side will be minor.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Burdoc101
    As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?

     An MMO designed around the PC makes a bad console MMO.

    An MMO designed around a console makes a bad PC MMO.

    Its just the facts. They know not all console owners are going to get a keyboard/mouse so they must make it so it can be played with a controller and that vastly limits the games design/depth. While there will be plenty of "shut up and take my money" types adding to the sales and the "its new so ill play it no matter what" types that will add players, how many players will either never buy or stop playing because of it?

    Need to face the fact that the vast majority of MMO players in the world, those that play/played WoW, Lineage, GW and the other most popular MMOs (over 2 million players) are not into the action combat, FPS style MMO games. So making EQN a console game is basically choosing to go with the smaller niche market.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Originally posted by Burdoc101
    As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?

     An MMO designed around the PC makes a bad console MMO.

    An MMO designed around a console makes a bad PC MMO.

    Its just the facts. They know not all console owners are going to get a keyboard/mouse so they must make it so it can be played with a controller and that vastly limits the games design/depth. While there will be plenty of "shut up and take my money" types adding to the sales and the "its new so ill play it no matter what" types that will add players, how many players will either never buy or stop playing because of it?

    Need to face the fact that the vast majority of MMO players in the world, those that play/played WoW, Lineage, GW and the other most popular MMOs (over 2 million players) are not into the action combat, FPS style MMO games. So making EQN a console game is basically choosing to go with the smaller niche market.

     

    What does the projected growth of this niche market look like? How does it compare to the pc market niche pc market of mmo players?
  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    For me it brings in a crowd of gamer's that I prefer to steer clear of.  Hopefully console and PC players will each have their own set of servers and not cross.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,453Member Uncommon

    More people own PC then they do consoles. So designing a UI or game to function on a console and they sell it to PC users means their product is inferior to all the other MMOs designed for the PC. Play DCU on a PC and the UI drives you nuts. Play FF14 on a console and try and do simple things like navigate a map, again drives you nuts. 

    2nd reason is when a new console launches it close in tech to an above average PC, not a gaming PC just a regular rig but consoles tech dont change for 5-8 years and PC quickly out pace the old console. So updates need to be scaled to the console and the PC gamer gets screwed. I get CPUs are getting a roof become of heat but there is many ways to get by that like motherboards that can use more then one CPU, so a PC with 2-4 4 core CPUs. PCs is the way to go with MMOs. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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