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SOE Please don't kill healing.

solochoowookiesolochoowookie Redmond, WAPosts: 35Member

Hi.

My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.

I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.

It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”

One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.

I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.

My name is Chris, and I am healer.

«1345

Comments

  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member

    I'm sure there'll still be plenty of abilities that heal people that you can use.

     

     

  • solochoowookiesolochoowookie Redmond, WAPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    I think the game should have classes with abilities that specializes more in healing than other classes with standard healing mechanics.  Make them important and beneficial to other players, just dont make them "absolutely" necessary for every single group oriented content.  Like the hardest dungeons and of course raid type content should require them the most.
  • asdarasdar Tequesta, FLPosts: 662Member Common

    I'm a healer too, and I hope they have something for us too.

    I'm not afraid of change, and I don't mind the trinity dying or being expanded so it includes everyone and no piece is too important to be missing.


    Doing away with the hate meter is a good thing, that's progress, and the improved AI is also progress and I think that's a huge step forward if true.

    We haven't heard a single thing about a healing spell or healing class in game. GW2 only has minor self heals, and since it looks a lot like GW2 it's reasonable to think that might be the case.


    I hope that EQN looks at the right game for guidance. GW1 had multi classing, they had opponents that were as intelligent as people, because they were people (PVP) and they had a healer in game.


    You didn't need it, but you could have it. Give us a multi class healer in game and let us decide what's too hard. We'll mix the healer up with some good motion and we'll prove that it can be done. If mobs attack only us we'll set up traps and play the kiter or the tank. If they don't we'll heal and then do the same.

    Yes take away artificial hate and stupid AI, but don't take away all healing classes.

    Asdar

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by solochoowookie
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

    Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by solochoowookie
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

    Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

    I have to agree even though I hate saying that because I really wanted to this to be my next mmo..

     

    I just hope it's not gonna be like a ping pong game and basically be a DPS race to down the mobs quick as possible.......

    And I also want more information on healing they have already mentioned that people can tank but without traditional taunts/aggro generation now what about HEALING they always seem to ignore that part........

    This game is suppose to be about how you can have all this freedom to play what you want but if I'm funneled into being a DPS how is that playing what I want?

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    I agree that waiting for a tank or healer back in EQ was terrible sometimes on slow nights or in out of the way zones, but usually wasn't too bad. My opinion is they should keep role dependency but not any one role/class. Example: have 2 cc or support types to make up for lack of tank or healer (would be more tactically challenging at times as well-good fun. Or make other combos viable (support, dps, semi-tank and 2 druid-type backup heal/cc combo). So keep roles just adjust the dependency so no one class absence takes away chance of success. This way groups would still want healers but not forced to wait.

    My real fear is that the roles will be trivialized to the point where no one even needs to group in Rallies and zergs ensue.

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by solochoowookie
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

    Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

    Buzz words like Smed saying... Oh yeah, we will have EQN playable at SOE live and I don't mean a beta... LMAO!

    Right, so, GW2 tried the only viable option as I can see it without the trinity system. Been trying to figure out how one can set this up, probably like so many others. I just can't figure out a version how they would implement a non-trinity system that works, unless the fights are so damn super easy that there is no way that you will ever need heal or a tank that's taking the damage.

    No, I'm with you on this one Nanfoodle. My excitement is at the bottom of the well. The reveal killed it completely for me.

    Also wouldn't surprise me if inside that black box, they are panicking like crazy because nobody wanted the GW2 solution. Now they have no other plan, but of course, they can't say that so they're trying to maybe secretly tweak the trinity system, then come out and say. Hey! Nobody has done this before, which wont be a lie but will be laughable because we know what they've done. lol

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nationalcity
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by solochoowookie
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

    Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

    I have to agree even though I hate saying that because I really wanted to this to be my next mmo..

     

    I just hope it's not gonna be like a ping pong game and basically be a DPS race to down the mobs quick as possible.......

    And I also want more information on healing they have already mentioned that people can tank but without traditional taunts/aggro generation now what about HEALING they always seem to ignore that part........

    This game is suppose to be about how you can have all this freedom to play what you want but if I'm funneled into being a DPS how is that playing what I want?

    No no, they have said there is no way to tank. You can have a defensive role but you cant tank. Maybe its things stuns and shield bash for a knock back. But is was said very clearly more then once, there is no tanking. At this point it makes me think of GW2 where everyone is really DPS with 10% flavor of CC, Healing or some other form of support. My Guardian in GW2 can heal but the more I specked into healing the less I became useful in a team but we were told not to compare EQN to GW2 because its not the same lol. No tanking at all, not sure how that works and still has good team synergy. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,850Member Uncommon
    Hi Chris!

    I think the switch from absolute required healers came from your kind not being numerous enough for everyone to play the game when they needed to. Not that it's anyone's fault, it just happened tht way.

    Just like the concerns from the tank crowd, the only hinting we have from SoE right now is that those play styles are there, just not "required". Now, that just means that it can be done but how easy is up to SoE. If they make the content hard enough then having "tank" or "healer" roles should be desirable to a group.

    As a side not I think GW2 did a good job of allowing support to do just that. They may have blurred the lines between some roles but being able to heal/shield/CC for your group is there. Hopefully EQN is more defied than that though.
  • AabelAabel Irvine, CAPosts: 32Member
    I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.
  • asdarasdar Tequesta, FLPosts: 662Member Common


    Originally posted by Aabel
    I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.


    Watch again, they never discuss so much as a healing spell let alone a healing class. Since SoE the devs have come out and said specifically that there would be tanks, but that they'd be different. Why mention tanks, but not mention a single time since SoE about healers?

    Asdar

  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    Just think this to the end: The roles are there but not required.

    So you can take the role of a tank, but it is not required at all.

    You can take the role of a healer, but it is not required at all.

    You can take the role of a crowd controler, but it is not required at all.

    If they are all not required, why play them ? You obviously need dps to kill the mob, but the rest... not required.

    Sorry, I just can't imagine good group play without fixed roles. And I have yet to see an MMO which found a solution. And please don't mention GW2 as it's group play is awful. I give EQN the chance to prove me wrong, but I doubt they will. But I really hope they do of course. Maybe I am just nuts. ;)

  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    I don't mind playing clerics in MMOs...but only for soloing or playing with my guild. What I dislike is getting tells from players (PUGS usually) begging me to join their group because they need a healer. The less gameplay depends on one type of role, the better. As others have stated, it sucks having to wait for that key role in order to finish content.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asdar

     


    Originally posted by Aabel
    I love playing clerics in table top AD&D. I hate playing them in MMORPG's. Healing in MMORPG's is not fun for most people, so few people play those classes. Those classes being mandatory leads to a lot of waiting around for everyone else. I did not get from the class discussion that healing was being removed, rather it was being made to be more fun like it is in table top RPG's.

     


    Watch again, they never discuss so much as a healing spell let alone a healing class. Since SoE the devs have come out and said specifically that there would be tanks, but that they'd be different. Why mention tanks, but not mention a single time since SoE about healers?

    People keep saying that but they said very clearly there is no way to tank in this game. Done!!! There is no tanking. You could play a defensive role but you cant tank. GW2 has that, you have no aggro control but when the mob does hit you, you can stay in the fray for 10 seconds longer then anyone else lol. You can pass on buffs to make your team last longer but in no way can you tank. EQN says it will not be done like GW2 but like GW2 you will never be able to tank. Done.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • RalstlinRalstlin Las PalmasPosts: 234Member
  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.  

    They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers.  They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass.  Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.

    Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.


  • WhytewulfWhytewulf Winston-Salem, NCPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    Hi.

    My name is Chris, and I am a healer. Healers, I love to play them. I know that is abhorrent behavior for many of you, but I love it. My EQ Next fervor is tainted with fear. Fear they don’t want me or my kind.

    I am excited about EQ Next in a big way, but I am also concerned the multiclass system will be much like GW2 and take a crap on anyone who wants to heal. I really wanted to play that game, but it seemed at every turn the dev team put things in place to keep my kind out. DPS Wars was no fun for us support class gamers.

    It is sad, but ultimately “I am afraid my play style is now considered niche and I won’t have a place in the new EQ.”

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    I believe in creative destruction, am interested in the new AI, love SOEmote, but accept when things change some things might go away. I am still sadden though.

    I still want to heal. In this game. Please SOE, let me heal.

    My name is Chris, and I am healer.

    I hope EQNext is not GW2, for one, we already have GW2.  MMO's have gotten away from the multi-player aspect in my opinion too much.  I am ok with not needing a group for standard questing, but when I go into a dungeon, yes, I may need someone to specialize in certain things, such as healing.  Multi-class may give us the ability to say ok Bob will heal, Jim will tank lisa will DPS, etc.  Those roles may have morphed to a certain extend, by removing hate meters and such, But I liked specializing.  I think others did too.  It was nice to be known as a top tank or ranged DPS.  It was a skill.  I want to play a role.  I understand change is inevitable, but to me I play MMORPGs for the people. And sometimes you have to force people together, by creating requirements.  I mean we knew certain dungeons, were better with ranged vs. melee or needed someone who could sleep or cc a certain way.  I look at it a lot like the WOW Druid or even the EQ Druid, I had to choose going in to some respect, but if our healer went down, even though I wasn't geared heal, I could switch up in a pinch and maybe finish out a group till we could rez.  That was fun, and even added a level of skill.  Bob is secondary healer if something happens to Jane.  Anywho, long live roles!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.  

    They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers.  They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass.  Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.

    Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.

    They already have the answer to not enough healers and tanks to get things done, multiclass. Give everyone the option to take their turn to tank and heal when people who like to play that type of role is not around. Lots of people in Rift (myself in cluded) played as many roles as they could to make teams work. They better have something really good if they have removed the trinity. I think its just gona be pong.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.  

    They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers.  They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass.  Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.

    Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.

    They already have the answer to not enough healers and tanks to get things done, multiclass. Give everyone the option to take their turn to tank and heal when people who like to play that type of role is not around. Lots of people in Rift (myself in cluded) played as many roles as they could to make teams work. They better have something really good if they have removed the trinity. I think its just gona be pong.

    If it based around AI, why not snare the mob and voilà! The mob attacks the tank.  Can't get to healer.  Give that toon something that plays against the mob personality, and he will prioritize that character (your tank) over the other melee.

    How is that pong?  Creative players will win in this game, people need to start thinking outside the box.

  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by nationalcity
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by solochoowookie
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This is the root of my concern. I have yet to see it done. I have seen it removed, but not done right.

    Its removed, they say its not gona end up like GW2 zerg combat and they will be telling us soon how it works. That they have something new never done before thats going to bring a new synergy to combat so people who like organized combat wont be upset. To me this sounds like buzz words that I just have never seen happen as promised. I will wait but my excitement has dropped on this game. 

    I have to agree even though I hate saying that because I really wanted to this to be my next mmo..

     

    I just hope it's not gonna be like a ping pong game and basically be a DPS race to down the mobs quick as possible.......

    And I also want more information on healing they have already mentioned that people can tank but without traditional taunts/aggro generation now what about HEALING they always seem to ignore that part........

    This game is suppose to be about how you can have all this freedom to play what you want but if I'm funneled into being a DPS how is that playing what I want?

    No no, they have said there is no way to tank. You can have a defensive role but you cant tank. Maybe its things stuns and shield bash for a knock back. But is was said very clearly more then once, there is no tanking. At this point it makes me think of GW2 where everyone is really DPS with 10% flavor of CC, Healing or some other form of support. My Guardian in GW2 can heal but the more I specked into healing the less I became useful in a team but we were told not to compare EQN to GW2 because its not the same lol. No tanking at all, not sure how that works and still has good team synergy. 

    Yeah, should have been more specific that's basically what I meant there is no traditional tank it's gonna be more along the lines of slows, knock backs maybe some kind of bubbles or guards to take dmg from others something along them lines....

    But as far as healing we have heard not a peep about if there is gonna be any kind of healing abilities at all. I don't expect traditional since they ruled that out but if I can't actually play a semi-healer then there is no place for me in this game.......

     

    I really hope it's not like a GW2 setup I just can't take another PONG.......

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon

    LOL!

    Currently, there is 1 guy at SOE that is smarter than the 1000's on this forum. Because it doesn't matter how we twist and turn, none has yet to come up with a viable solution to a no-trinity system that people like.

    No, I don't believe this bullshit that comes from SOE about this. I also bet that they are reading like crazy here and sees that all the solutions that's been talked about is not positive ones. I wonder, if the smart ass at SOE has one of those solutions as the brainy one. LOL

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wizardanim
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by st3v3b0
    Originally posted by solochoowookie

    One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.

    And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group?  Then what...  Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?

    Quit fearing change.  Change is necessary to evolve into better situations.  With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people.  Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.

    This excuse is just as ridiculous now as it was in the EQ Next reveal.  

    They have tons of classes and could easily make several viable healers.  They've also given the ability to both change classes, and multiclass.  Thats THREE ways they've already rectified the problem, without having to remove key elements of fantasy rpg gameplay.

    Its not change we're afraid of, its stupidity.

    They already have the answer to not enough healers and tanks to get things done, multiclass. Give everyone the option to take their turn to tank and heal when people who like to play that type of role is not around. Lots of people in Rift (myself in cluded) played as many roles as they could to make teams work. They better have something really good if they have removed the trinity. I think its just gona be pong.

    If it based around AI, why not snare the mob and voilà! The mob attacks the tank.  Can't get to healer.  Give that toon something that plays against the mob personality, and he will prioritize that character (your tank) over the other melee.

    How is that pong?  Creative players will win in this game, people need to start thinking outside the box.

    Thats called aggro control and thats not in this game. You will have no control over how what mob hits what player. Be it by skills or actions. You can control the battle field but unless they have collision tanking. Then each battle would have to be set up to keep the defensive class in the area that was getting hit. Remove from your mind any way to get the mob to do what you want and now tell me how a class can tank. SoE was also very clear there was only defensive roles (maybe pass on buffs to team mates like a Paladin with AC and Heal aura) but you in no way could tank. I get your pain, I wish there was. Im not saying this to troll but you cant tank.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

    LOL!

    Currently, there is 1 guy at SOE that is smarter than the 1000's on this forum. Because it doesn't matter how we twist and turn, none has yet to come up with a viable solution to a no-trinity system that people like.

    No, I don't believe this bullshit that comes from SOE about this. I also bet that they are reading like crazy here and sees that all the solutions that's been talked about is not positive ones. I wonder, if the smart ass at SOE has one of those solutions as the brainy one. LOL

     

    UO, SWG, EVE, and GW1 are all games without the trinity.

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