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  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by karmath

    Please stop calling TES:O a MMORPG. The developers themselves have stated its a co-op rpg.

     

    Thanks.

    true it !

    and... makers of  five TES games Bethesda Game Studio not working on ESO,devs are Zenimax Online Studio,both devs are employers of  Zenimax  Game Company.

    Peoples mixing it.

    wrong it!

    It's an mmorpg...period.

     

    Post # 14... Paul Sage's answer to my question: 

    Originally posted by Iselin

    Hi Paul,

     

    Thanks for taking the time to come here and answer questions.

     

    There seems to have been a lot of talk lately about whether ESO is a real MMO prompted by some statements you guys made last month about it being playable as a single player experience. I've been following the development of the game closely for several months and I don't see any changes in the design of the game.

     

    Can you explain why the shift in emphasis on how you describe the game?

    I think this has to do with how we approach development. We were worried that the term MMO had become synonymous with a certain type of game with an almost exact set of rules. That was definitely a perception we felt, even internally. But we really wanted to be true to our IP first, and still have this amazing social game with thousands of players online. When I started on UO, MMO was a new term and there weren't limits on it. We don't dislike the term or the association, we love it. We just want to make sure people aren't expecting it to be a clone of certain games.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/390321/page/2

    Nowhere did he say the game was an MMO though.

    Its not a real MMO.  It is a multiplayer ES game.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by karmath

    Please stop calling TES:O a MMORPG. The developers themselves have stated its a co-op rpg.

     

    Thanks.

    true it !

    and... makers of  five TES games Bethesda Game Studio not working on ESO,devs are Zenimax Online Studio,both devs are employers of  Zenimax  Game Company.

    Peoples mixing it.

    wrong it!

    It's an mmorpg...period.

     

    Post # 14... Paul Sage's answer to my question: 

    Originally posted by Iselin

    Hi Paul,

     

    Thanks for taking the time to come here and answer questions.

     

    There seems to have been a lot of talk lately about whether ESO is a real MMO prompted by some statements you guys made last month about it being playable as a single player experience. I've been following the development of the game closely for several months and I don't see any changes in the design of the game.

     

    Can you explain why the shift in emphasis on how you describe the game?

    I think this has to do with how we approach development. We were worried that the term MMO had become synonymous with a certain type of game with an almost exact set of rules. That was definitely a perception we felt, even internally. But we really wanted to be true to our IP first, and still have this amazing social game with thousands of players online. When I started on UO, MMO was a new term and there weren't limits on it. We don't dislike the term or the association, we love it. We just want to make sure people aren't expecting it to be a clone of certain games.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/390321/page/2

    Nowhere did he say the game was an MMO though.

    Its not a real MMO.  It is a multiplayer ES game.

    Rofl...whatever. 

     

    So...what is happening in Cyrodiil? Is that not MMO enough for you?

     

    Maybe you can give us your definition of MMO and how it differs from a multiplayer game...in your own words.

     

  • AbrrahamAbrraham KopenhagenPosts: 149Member
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.

    Of course it's just hype. Amazing how some are taking the hype to heart and thinking it means something.

    I can almost tell you to the day, when the in late May Zmax mouthpieces (specially Paul Sage--Matt Firor seems to be a bit embarrased about the new hype) started emphasizing that it's "just like all other TES games but online with friends!"

    Nothing had changed with respect to game features at all...all that changed was their spin.

    However, haters, trolls and the uninformed all seized on that and started going on about how it's not an MMO.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-t_GvYBv4

     

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.

    Of course it's just hype. Amazing how some are taking the hype to heart and thinking it means something.

    I can almost tell you to the day, when the in late May Zmax mouthpieces (specially Paul Sage--Matt Firor seems to be a bit embarrased about the new hype) started emphasizing that it's "just like all other TES games but online with friends!"

    Nothing had changed with respect to game features at all...all that changed was their spin.

    However, haters, trolls and the uninformed all seized on that and started going on about how it's not an MMO.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-t_GvYBv4

     

    MMOs aren't primarily single player experiences.

    Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.

    Of course it's just hype. Amazing how some are taking the hype to heart and thinking it means something.

    I can almost tell you to the day, when the in late May Zmax mouthpieces (specially Paul Sage--Matt Firor seems to be a bit embarrased about the new hype) started emphasizing that it's "just like all other TES games but online with friends!"

    Nothing had changed with respect to game features at all...all that changed was their spin.

    However, haters, trolls and the uninformed all seized on that and started going on about how it's not an MMO.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-t_GvYBv4

     

    MMOs aren't primarily single player experiences.

    Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

    most MMOs are what you make of them. Yes, I agree that a lot of folks play them as single player games, but in most out there you can group if you want to, PVP with others if you want to, engage in crafting and the economy with others if you want to, usually there is content that requires others, but yea, there is a large audience out there that likes to treat MMOs as single player but still be able to chat with others or see others for whatever reason. I prefer all forms at different times.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.

    Of course it's just hype. Amazing how some are taking the hype to heart and thinking it means something.

    I can almost tell you to the day, when the in late May Zmax mouthpieces (specially Paul Sage--Matt Firor seems to be a bit embarrased about the new hype) started emphasizing that it's "just like all other TES games but online with friends!"

    Nothing had changed with respect to game features at all...all that changed was their spin.

    However, haters, trolls and the uninformed all seized on that and started going on about how it's not an MMO.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-t_GvYBv4

     

    MMOs aren't primarily single player experiences.

    Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

    Problem with that is you have no clue if ESO will be primarily a single player experience. They said you "can" go through it by yourself, but that capability doesn't automatically make it mostly single player.

    That is like saying if you never get help from anyone in real life, and do everything yourself, that the world isn't massive. The number of players are still there despite what you decide to do. This is why the game is called an MMO. Massive Mutiplayer Online, means exactly how it sounds. It isn't 100% necessary to get help from others.

    Chances are though, most people will gather parties. Why? Unlike other MMOs, the loot is obtainable despite no matter how many you have in your party. You do not lose out on items. I imagine you would not lose out on much if any experience either. Meaning their is no loss involved, and you only gain. The gain is dungeons are quicker, funner, and more entertaining with a group.

    I personally love MMOs, but I am a lone wolf. I like doing things myself as much as possible. That doesn't mean I ALWAYS play alone. That is why it's still an MMO at the end of the day. I still like meeting people. I still like dungeon runs with a party once in a while. I like to do some pvp now and then. If you experience the entire game all alone, you simply have major problems. That isn't the devs fault, that would be the persons fault for being socially retarded.  Just because some people are socially retarded, doesn't mean this isn't an MMO.

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    It's just a marketing decision to call it like that, of course it' not much different from any other MMO. They think their game is too good to be named with games like GW2, SW:TOR, ArcheAge, TSW and so on. They want to form a new genre. The super duper massive multiplayer game with singleplayer options - short SDMMGS.

    Of course it's just hype. Amazing how some are taking the hype to heart and thinking it means something.

    I can almost tell you to the day, when the in late May Zmax mouthpieces (specially Paul Sage--Matt Firor seems to be a bit embarrased about the new hype) started emphasizing that it's "just like all other TES games but online with friends!"

    Nothing had changed with respect to game features at all...all that changed was their spin.

    However, haters, trolls and the uninformed all seized on that and started going on about how it's not an MMO.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD-t_GvYBv4

     

    MMOs aren't primarily single player experiences.

    Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

    Problem with that is you have no clue if ESO will be primarily a single player experience. They said you "can" go through it by yourself, but that capability doesn't automatically make it mostly single player.

    That is like saying if you never get help from anyone in real life, and do everything yourself, that the world isn't massive. The number of players are still there despite what you decide to do. This is why the game is called an MMO. Massive Mutiplayer Online, means exactly how it sounds. It isn't 100% necessary to get help from others.

    Chances are though, most people will gather parties. Why? Unlike other MMOs, the loot is obtainable despite no matter how many you have in your party. You do not lose out on items. I imagine you would not lose out on much if any experience either. Meaning their is no loss involved, and you only gain. The gain is dungeons are quicker, funner, and more entertaining with a group.

    I personally love MMOs, but I am a lone wolf. I like doing things myself as much as possible. That doesn't mean I ALWAYS play alone. That is why it's still an MMO at the end of the day. I still like meeting people. I still like dungeon runs with a party once in a while. I like to do some pvp now and then. If you experience the entire game all alone, you simply have major problems. That isn't the devs fault, that would be the persons fault for being socially retarded.  Just because some people are socially retarded, doesn't mean this isn't an MMO.

    I like questing with one other person and leveling up that one character together for normal PVE. I always look to connect with one other person since Im not married who is into that kinda thing and supplements my west coast evening time frame :-), but I also like finding others to do group stuff with and I prefer the PVP to be massive, not scenarios. I usually join a guild for chatting or guild type events. Then I normally create an alt when whoever I play with isn't there and solo stuff until that other person is around. I guess I'm a good target for the game. I do hope they have some time of dynamic event system for sometimes joining in with others though, but not a deal breaker for me.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • ZaiDenTsuZaiDenTsu LegikoPosts: 11Member
    a bad choice for soe ,to make such a cartoony and ugly graphic. No one say to make it real life like soe maybe but at least decent and not cartoon ,was the thing 
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,772Member Uncommon

    OP, an mmo company can make their mmo the most visually realistic possible (a mirror of real life if you want to say that) BUT the game WILL SUCK HORRIBLY if they put more resources into the graphics and forget about game mechanics. Therefore, making a gorgeous looking game full of gameplay limitations.

     

    We have seen this a lot already, companies making realistic and even stylized ones that have over the top graphics being pretty but beyond mediocre products because they didnt put enough resources and effort into the rest of the game.

     

    I hope Zenimax take both sides into account before we end up with just another beautiful but awfully limited game.

    image
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    I really like fine detail and realism.AOC is the best launched game in that regard....imo
  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    This game looks like absolute crap. I don't care if you don't like cartoons. GW2 looks better than this game NOW. FFXIV:ARR looks better than this game (well hell everything really) NOW

     

    And this game is supposed to launch next summer

     

    I have no faith in this game at all, it animates like a stop motion clay movie with the hiccups. Hell AOC animates better than this game and how many years ago did that come out?

    This seems to contradict those who sat in front of the PC and played it. Have you?

    There Is Always Hope!

  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    The stylized graphics in EQNext allow for the constructable / destructable world, among other things.  I'll take those new features over the same ancient themepark crap from the likes of ESO any day.

     

    I have to agree with this, despite my love for ES lore. I am ready for innovation and freedom in an mmo, riding on the rails is getting old.

  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    This game looks like absolute crap. I don't care if you don't like cartoons. GW2 looks better than this game NOW. FFXIV:ARR looks better than this game (well hell everything really) NOW

     

    And this game is supposed to launch next summer

     

    I have no faith in this game at all, it animates like a stop motion clay movie with the hiccups. Hell AOC animates better than this game and how many years ago did that come out?

    This seems to contradict those who sat in front of the PC and played it. Have you?

    Well I know they're not going to have player housing at launch, which tells me a little about what they consider important and not important. Apparently the player isn't going to rank very high in their thought process. The old level system grind is in place, which is an especially weak ground for innovation.

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    This game looks like absolute crap. I don't care if you don't like cartoons. GW2 looks better than this game NOW. FFXIV:ARR looks better than this game (well hell everything really) NOW

     

    And this game is supposed to launch next summer

     

    I have no faith in this game at all, it animates like a stop motion clay movie with the hiccups. Hell AOC animates better than this game and how many years ago did that come out?

    This seems to contradict those who sat in front of the PC and played it. Have you?

    You could maybe defend the graphics, but the animations are indeed horrid.  Maybe they will be updated over time though.

    Originally posted by NagilumSadow

    Well I know they're not going to have player housing at launch, which tells me a little about what they consider important and not important. Apparently the player isn't going to rank very high in their thought process. The old level system grind is in place, which is an especially weak ground for innovation.

    Removing leveling isn't innovation, its just dumb!

    EQnext might pull it off, and I doubt it, but its a different type of game.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    This game looks like absolute crap. I don't care if you don't like cartoons. GW2 looks better than this game NOW. FFXIV:ARR looks better than this game (well hell everything really) NOW

     

    And this game is supposed to launch next summer

     

    I have no faith in this game at all, it animates like a stop motion clay movie with the hiccups. Hell AOC animates better than this game and how many years ago did that come out?

    This seems to contradict those who sat in front of the PC and played it. Have you?

    You could maybe defend the graphics, but the animations are indeed horrid.  Maybe they will be updated over time though.

    Originally posted by NagilumSadow

    Well I know they're not going to have player housing at launch, which tells me a little about what they consider important and not important. Apparently the player isn't going to rank very high in their thought process. The old level system grind is in place, which is an especially weak ground for innovation.

    Removing leveling isn't innovation, its just dumb!

    EQnext might pull it off, and I doubt it, but its a different type of game.

    I agree on both things you said here. However, they did mention they are looking to improve the animations and they are well aware of this already. So we can most certainly expect that to be improved as they said it will be. They really havn't lied to us yet so far, so I don't see a reason why they would start, so I trust them.

  • fistormfistorm Smalltown, WIPosts: 836Member Common

    I'm shocked my post is still going, I posted this thing like last week.  I read all the posts,  I looked at black desert, and it does look amazing, unfortuantly looks like its never going to be released in the states or atleast no plans yet for it. 

     

    As far as the its not an mmo game, I think the dev means this, and when you read the reply given to one of the posters by a dev was actually saying this in a coy way, "its going to be a solo type game like wow, or lotro and you wont be limited by forced group play, but on the other hand we don't want it to be looked at like a wow clone because it isn't because you can do anything as a group".  He couldn't say those words unless he wanted to piss off millions of wow players, so I'll say that for him. 

     

         I also wanted to address, the "stylized art" of eq next.  I wanted to say stylized is just another way to label something that we all know what it is in a more enlightened possistion, and for me to make this example I have to turn to my old comedian friend the one and only, George Carlie (R.I.P. my friend) who put honesty to fantasy in his piece on Soft Language, you can look it up on youtube if you want a good laugh about it  but bottom line....  Cartoons became Stylized Art, because the fear of it being called a cartoon is so great.  Maybe like Carlin, I wont ever have to die, I can just.... pass away!

     

  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Maquiame

    This game looks like absolute crap. I don't care if you don't like cartoons. GW2 looks better than this game NOW. FFXIV:ARR looks better than this game (well hell everything really) NOW

     

    And this game is supposed to launch next summer

     

    I have no faith in this game at all, it animates like a stop motion clay movie with the hiccups. Hell AOC animates better than this game and how many years ago did that come out?

    This seems to contradict those who sat in front of the PC and played it. Have you?

    You could maybe defend the graphics, but the animations are indeed horrid.  Maybe they will be updated over time though.

    Originally posted by NagilumSadow

    Well I know they're not going to have player housing at launch, which tells me a little about what they consider important and not important. Apparently the player isn't going to rank very high in their thought process. The old level system grind is in place, which is an especially weak ground for innovation.

    Removing leveling isn't innovation, its just dumb!

    EQnext might pull it off, and I doubt it, but its a different type of game.

     

    If you think more dynamically, you'd realize the level system is arbitrary. Replacing it would mean putting structure in its place and sublimating exploration.

     

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member

    I am SOOOO not sure about the look now.

    I watched this Quake-Con video again. And some... *other* sources. And boy... sorry but the screenshots look great. But ALL the videos I have ever seen of TESO look barren and bleak. Sorry, but that is my impression. Brown, Grey and oh look more brown and grey. NO I do NOT want Disney colourful fancypants either. But, sheesh, the videos show a world so damn barren. I can't say it otherwise, but nothing I saw in terms of visual world was aweing me. And everyone was wearing like brown sackcloth. All the same. All the time. Again all brown and grey.

    And then combat, maybe people were dumb, but it looked like HACK HACK HACK.

     

    Seeing those vids really disheartened me. I also read a preview on the German gamer mag 4Players who had a 2 hour session, and they too were not too thrilled and siad quests were just the boring same old we have seen 100 times. Like nothing to write home about.

    Sort of dampened my enthusiasm right now. :(

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • IridescentOrkIridescentOrk Ellicott City, MDPosts: 157Member
    not everybody will be playing in PC, many will play it in console, so does worried about hardware, there are options

    gameplay > graphics

  • RelGnRelGn halalaPosts: 494Member
    Originally posted by diabel

    Also ESO isn't a seamless world, that's like comparing a pool to an ocean.

    +2

    image
  • GrayImpactGrayImpact NetherlandsPosts: 983Member Uncommon

    Am i the only one who dislikes "Realistic" art styles?

     

    They age really poorly, will look like crap within a few years compared to other games, and even when freshly released these games usually just don't look appealing to me, i absolutely love my stylized graphics and am glad EQN is going with them.

     

    I'll still try ESO, but so far It looks quite poor to me visually.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Agoden

    Am i the only one who dislikes "Realistic" art styles?

     

    They age really poorly, will look like crap within a few years compared to other games, and even when freshly released these games usually just don't look appealing to me, i absolutely love my stylized graphics and am glad EQN is going with them.

     

    I'll still try ESO, but so far It looks quite poor to me visually.

    Seen Age of Conan lately? 5-years-old and still looks better than most MMOs.

    This "ages badly" thing is a left-over from the late 90's and early 2000's when both, CPUs and GPUs were changing drastically very quickly.

    Last 5 years? Not so much...changes have been gradual and incremental. Check-out any of the top games from 2008 (Dead Space, Crysis Warhead, GT IV, etc.) they all still look great even compared to the latest single player PC games.

    I wish people would just stop repeating this tired old marketing hype excuse for cartoony styles which are just a choice, nothing else.

     

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member

    The problem in the entire debate is, that everyone thinks of something slightly different in the terms cartoony and realism.

    Personally, when I look at TESO videos and Everquest Next videos, I see two extremes which are both too.. extreme for my sake. While EQN looks too cartoony to me, TESO videos I have seen look almost like devoid of colours! Like the famous Zero Punctuation quote: "What isn't brown is grey and what isn't grey is too dark to make out."

    I always favoured a balance between these two. Alas, realism too often in games means "dark and washed out". I do not want photorealism, or it would be nice, but I dont really need photorealism. I want acceptable realism. If you take GW2 and AoC you see not cartoony approaches, and both are colourful and vibrant worlds. Alas *so far* most vids from TESO do look waaaay too grey and brown like. That's not even realistic, because REAL landscapes rarely are like that everywhere.

     

    So as so often I'd prefer a balance: lush and colourful like a cartoon, but realistic and not over the top colours; realistic but not dull.

     

    So far, alas both EQN and TESO look too much like extremes at both ends to me.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Agoden

    Am i the only one who dislikes "Realistic" art styles?

     

    They age really poorly, will look like crap within a few years compared to other games, and even when freshly released these games usually just don't look appealing to me, i absolutely love my stylized graphics and am glad EQN is going with them.

     

    I'll still try ESO, but so far It looks quite poor to me visually.

    Seen Age of Conan lately? 5-years-old and still looks better than most MMOs.

    This "ages badly" thing is a left-over from the late 90's and early 2000's when both, CPUs and GPUs were changing drastically very quickly.

    Last 5 years? Not so much...changes have been gradual and incremental. Check-out any of the top games from 2008 (Dead Space, Crysis Warhead, GT IV, etc.) they all still look great even compared to the latest single player PC games.

    I wish people would just stop repeating this tired old marketing hype excuse for cartoony styles which are just a choice, nothing else.

     

    AoC had higher than average spec requirements when it launched.

    However, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FipOSKZI45A, is hardly the best looking MMO on the market atm. 

    The graphics are so meh, that it is only an iota above unplayable.

     

    Why are you listing single player games?   They are designed to be run on high end hardware.  That proves nothing in regards to MMOs!  Cartoon art styles stand the test of time.  Sorry, but that is just a cold hard fact!  Maybe some time in the future there won't be any noticeable difference between high end realistic graphics from one year to the next, but it won't be anytime soon.

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