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Cartoon Graphics - The New Trend? (Even though it was the old trend)

TalintTalint Ypsilanti, MIMember Posts: 165 Uncommon

Earlier this month I posed these two questions - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392626/page/1 ; and  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392500/Why-Are-People-Against-the-Holy-Trinity-in-Games.html

 

Now I pose this question to the community.  Are cartoon graphics here to stay?  Cartoon graphics bring the immersion and real feeling down for me.  I understand that in  the earlier times of MMOs, cartoon graphics were a way to make the game look nice with the technology we had then.  Now we have unbelievable technology that can make games look close to real-life.

Why then, are these companies still falling back on the cartoon graphics?  Is it because it is what they think we like?  Is it because it is what has to be done if you want to see hundreds of people on your screen at once without lagging? or is it simply because that is what they have done, and will always do?

 

I look forward to hearing your reactions,

Talint

Non sibi sed patriae

image

Comments

  • DandalusDandalus Wichita, KSMember Posts: 13

    You say cartoony, when I say "stylized." Very important difference, at least to me. The problem with art is that so much is left up to the person viewing it. I will say, however, that the Kerran could use a bit more work...but that is just my take on an artist's rendition of what THEY wanted them to look like.

     

    If you watch the vids showing the tremendous range of facial expressions available using these "cartoony graphics", then maybe you might see the brilliance in it. If not, not sure what to say to change your mind.

  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MaineMember Posts: 11,866 Uncommon

    gameplay matters to me more than any art direction

    gameplay determines if I'm having fun

  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXMember Posts: 198

    It worked for WoW and it takes so long to develop an MMO that unless you think ahead instead of just copying what's hot when you started the project, you end up with (for example) an art style that's dated or over used by the time your product ships.

    I think Sony copied Disney more than Blizzard but WoW proved to the execs that a cartoony art style can sell big numbers.

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIMember Posts: 591
    Well back in the old days (late Middle Ages and early Renaissance) art tried to replicate real life as close as possible. Once the photograph became widely avaible art started to go in the direction of abstraction.

    What am I saying? Even once games are indistinguishable from reality there will be a place for non-realistic games as a form of expression.
  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXMember Posts: 198
    Originally posted by Dandalus
    You say cartoony, when I say "stylized." Very important difference, at least to me. The problem with art is that so much is left up to the person viewing it. I will say, however, that the Kerran could use a bit more work...but that is just my take on an artist's rendition of what THEY wanted them to look like.   If you watch the vids showing the tremendous range of facial expressions available using these "cartoony graphics", then maybe you might see the brilliance in it. If not, not sure what to say to change your mind.

    Brilliance?  Looks no different than any Saturday morning cartoon my kids are watching.

  • SephastusSephastus New Brunswick, NJMember Posts: 455 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    Originally posted by Dandalus
    You say cartoony, when I say "stylized." Very important difference, at least to me. The problem with art is that so much is left up to the person viewing it. I will say, however, that the Kerran could use a bit more work...but that is just my take on an artist's rendition of what THEY wanted them to look like.   If you watch the vids showing the tremendous range of facial expressions available using these "cartoony graphics", then maybe you might see the brilliance in it. If not, not sure what to say to change your mind.

    Brilliance?  Looks no different than any Saturday morning cartoon my kids are watching.

    And that is bad why exactly? Art style should take a back seat to gameplay, and if you believe that it is ever more important than gameplay, your prioritizing is not following what the majority of players want, and hence, your opinion is only valid for those with similar thoughts to yours...

  • KhebelnKhebeln DoncasterMember Posts: 721 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talint
    Earlier this month I posed these two questions - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392626/page/1 ; and  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392500/Why-Are-People-Against-the-Holy-Trinity-in-Games.html   Now I pose this question to the community.  Are cartoon graphics here to stay?  Cartoon graphics bring the immersion and real feeling down for me.  I understand that in  the earlier times of MMOs, cartoon graphics were a way to make the game look nice with the technology we had then.  Now we have unbelievable technology that can make games look close to real-life. Why then, are these companies still falling back on the cartoon graphics?  Is it because it is what they think we like?  Is it because it is what has to be done if you want to see hundreds of people on your screen at once without lagging? or is it simply because that is what they have done, and will always do?   I look forward to hearing your reactions, Talint

    The technology for mmorpg games is not even close to single player games, i would not expect the trend to change in next 3-5 years till the technology catches up.

    image
    (Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2

  • tedgptedgp vthth, ALMember Posts: 33
    Graphics in the EQN presentation were placeholder graphics in very late alpha.   It would be stupid in the extreme to suggest those are the release graphics.
  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXMember Posts: 198
    Originally posted by Sephastus
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    Originally posted by Dandalus
    You say cartoony, when I say "stylized." Very important difference, at least to me. The problem with art is that so much is left up to the person viewing it. I will say, however, that the Kerran could use a bit more work...but that is just my take on an artist's rendition of what THEY wanted them to look like.   If you watch the vids showing the tremendous range of facial expressions available using these "cartoony graphics", then maybe you might see the brilliance in it. If not, not sure what to say to change your mind.

    Brilliance?  Looks no different than any Saturday morning cartoon my kids are watching.

    And that is bad why exactly? Art style should take a back seat to gameplay, and if you believe that it is ever more important than gameplay, your prioritizing is not following what the majority of players want, and hence, your opinion is only valid for those with similar thoughts to yours...

    Its not bad, and I didn't mean it that way.  But it seems a cop out to really putting some energy behind a living breathing world.  Sorry but cartoons are just goofy, I cant take anything seriously that uses that art style.

    Its just a let down to me.

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJMember Posts: 498
    As long as they are well done I can play either style graphics. It's sad how I almost feel greedy wanting a great game and great graphics together, but shouldn't it be expected at this point.
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember Posts: 2,758 Uncommon

    Im retired and have the money to spend on games but I will not spend anything on this one because of bad graphics in my opion.

    image

    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COMember Posts: 3,578
    it's the art style you are complaining about, not the graphics
  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAMember Posts: 278
    Originally posted by Talint
    Earlier this month I posed these two questions - http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392626/page/1 ; and  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/392500/Why-Are-People-Against-the-Holy-Trinity-in-Games.html   Now I pose this question to the community.  Are cartoon graphics here to stay?  Cartoon graphics bring the immersion and real feeling down for me.  I understand that in  the earlier times of MMOs, cartoon graphics were a way to make the game look nice with the technology we had then.  Now we have unbelievable technology that can make games look close to real-life. Why then, are these companies still falling back on the cartoon graphics?  Is it because it is what they think we like?  Is it because it is what has to be done if you want to see hundreds of people on your screen at once without lagging? or is it simply because that is what they have done, and will always do?   I look forward to hearing your reactions, Talint

    Please define cartoon, as you say.  

    Soft shading w/ bloom and specular falloff does not necessarily mean cartoon.  In a role playing setting, in a perilous world meant for adventure, i'd argue that this artwork is not cartoony.  

    Despite the fact that the game postulates around heroic poses and not satire or humor, i'm interested to know your reasoning.

    As for the orange text i've highlighted, it does not seem like you understand what is required of a system in an MMO setting.  Not mentioning subsystem needs for sound, animation, physics, latency considerations for players, skills, and monsters, resource management, and data streaming, we still need to consider their new technology, voxel->poly conversions.  They would be rather dumb to try and achieve a processor intensive look in this setting, as most systems will never achieve the realistic look.  Then, your base will differ hugely.  Having a game that looks the same everywhere has merit and is desired.

    For the image i've posted below, they have done a fantastic job matching the world to the player models.  For this game, it seems the world comes first in the design, not the characters. Anyone who thinks they have failed is mis-informed.

    Image example:

    http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/0/3/8/8/5/1375475281_human_wizard_in_ashfang.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/890x-1/format/jpg/free-everquest-next-hd-desktop-wallpaper.jpg

  • RictisRictis UnknownMember Posts: 1,298 Uncommon

    I think gamers need to be more open minded when it comes to aesthetics. Because a lot of these posts coming up have to do with aesthetics moreso then graphics. You would be surprised how many people confuse the two. The game shots and vids for EQN look good. I know for a fact that not all of us can afford brand new toys, at the very least I know I can't. I usually upgrade every 4 years give or take. Sony is making a smart decision on going with this approach as opposed to realism, most of the times games that use realism tend to burden computers a lot more. Add the fact that you have  destruction and potentially pvp later and you have a huge issue.

    I understand people prefer things a certain way, but at the end of the day you want to make sure your making a game that can work well on older computers and still look good enough maxed out on newer computers. EQ2 is a perfect example of what goes wrong when you try to aim for the high end aesthetic looks.

  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAMember Posts: 278
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    Originally posted by Sephastus
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    <snip>

    Its not bad, and I didn't mean it that way.  But it seems a cop out to really putting some energy behind a living breathing world.  Sorry but cartoons are just goofy, I cant take anything seriously that uses that art style.

    Its just a let down to me.

    Please define "cartoony".

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember Posts: 2,758 Uncommon
    Originally posted by djazzy
    it's the art style you are complaining about, not the graphics

    The guy with the pony tail said he had to get back to work and put on Oculus Virtual Reality Headset ! Starting at 300.00 bucks when they come out. I would say that is qraphics in my opion.

    image

    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSMember Posts: 321 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talint

    Why then, are these companies still falling back on the cartoon graphics?  Is it because it is what they think we like?  Is it because it is what has to be done if you want to see hundreds of people on your screen at once without lagging? or is it simply because that is what they have done, and will always do?

     

    This puzzles me greatly. The graphic advancements over the years with vid cards is simply amazing and yet all devs what to give us is Saturday morning cartoons.

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSMember Posts: 321 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Oberholzer
    As long as they are well done I can play either style graphics. It's sad how I almost feel greedy wanting a great game and great graphics together, but shouldn't it be expected at this point.

    May I ask why not? The advancements in cpu's and vid cards have come along way even since EQ2.  Don't tell me they have to go backwards to make a modern MMO.:)

  • DerrosDerros Member Posts: 1,168 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    Originally posted by Dandalus
    You say cartoony, when I say "stylized." Very important difference, at least to me. The problem with art is that so much is left up to the person viewing it. I will say, however, that the Kerran could use a bit more work...but that is just my take on an artist's rendition of what THEY wanted them to look like.   If you watch the vids showing the tremendous range of facial expressions available using these "cartoony graphics", then maybe you might see the brilliance in it. If not, not sure what to say to change your mind.

    Brilliance?  Looks no different than any Saturday morning cartoon my kids are watching.

    Give me adventure time, the new ninja turtles, fairly odd parents, scooby doo, mystery inc, any day over gritty crime drama #47921

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member Posts: 2,184 Uncommon

    New Trend ?

    I will never have a cartoon character represent me on a mmog.

    Or any why weren't their concerns for cartoon characters for Planetside 2..if their is such concern for dated artwork

    You don't think the fact SONY owns playstation has anything to do with the EQN  downgraded/console  graphics do you ?

  • JabshakkJabshakk Independence, MOMember Posts: 16 Uncommon
    I think Eqn has done well with the art direction, its not overly cartoony, its like a happy medium. 
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJMember Posts: 1,165 Uncommon
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