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Originally posted by ignore_me Yeah SWTOR's lack of responsiveness and non-interruptible animations are awesome. And the TAB TARGETING is super exciting. Bravo! Bravo!
don't forget the magnificent pvp engine going to 1fps when pvp contains more then 2 players where either one uses a aoe. :P
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by Genadi Originally posted by tixylix Lets be honest here there hasn't been a good complete MMO since WoW and I'm talking Vanilla...
I often hear people use WoW Vanilla as a benchmark of sorts, obviously didn't play on launch. Game was far from complete and bugs everywhere. Combat was ok if you like clicky auto target kid type stuff I suppose, the open pvp made it fun though not the combat system.
Obviously you never played the game at launch.
It was the most polished and complete MMO that ever launched and why it got reviewed so highly and everyone loved it. I don't remember many bugs and the only problem they had was servers because they didn't expect the amount of people to play. That was back during a time when they actually didn't expect the numbers because no other MMO had the popularity of WoW before.
Originally posted by Muke Originally posted by tixylix I think WOW is the best MMO ever made.
OP: Fixed that wall of text for ya.
I actually think SWG Pre CU Is and I think EVE and PS are pretty amazing too, though Planetside 2 sucks.
WoW is probably my 4/5th fave, however I cannot ignore how much Blizzard got right, they got the combat and classes better than anyone.
Originally posted by tixylix I'm gonna say this now, I hate this strive for action based combat, mainly because no MMO has gotten it right. They always feel like this awkward mix between the tabbed based system and some poor TPS and have some focus on AOE and it always feels shoddy. No MMO has gotten it right and I don't think they will due to the conservative approach on the genre, they make too many compromises due to the stress on the network and what tech can do these days on modest systems. I loved SWTORs combat when the game came out, it was about the only thing that game got right. World PVP was so fun (when you managed to get it) and it reminded me of a mix between WoW and SWG. It was almost as fluid as WoW but the combat had the length of SWGs battles, I just loved 1 v 1s in SWTOR, fights could last like 10 mins. You could take hits and recover, it wasn't game over and you could just act really smart and pull it back. It used the traditional trinity system and got it right, tabbed based tank/dps/healer combat hasn't died, GW2 proved that it's the better system. I just find it a shame that SWTOR made the combat pace faster and ruined it since, I don't find the combat fun any more. However pre 1.2 and whatever else they've done to it since was amazing, I really hope EQN uses a similar system and not some stupid action based system that will suck like every other MMO that has attempted it. Lets be honest here there hasn't been a good complete MMO since WoW and I'm talking Vanilla, not the butchered fan service MMO it has become. I loved EQ, PS, SWG, EVE and even thought PS2 was good but needed another year of development. When I think about it, it's been 8 years since I played an MMO and felt like it was home, one that I wanted to play every day, though tbh at all lol.... There has been this big focused on action and streamlining, it hasn't worked. SWTOR came closest but that game failed from not having a game world and ppl playing MMOs want to feel like they're in a world.
1) For somebody being so turned off by cartoony graphics, you sure flip flop on what makes a good game.
2)SWTOR's combat was TERRIBLE. Seriously, are you REALLY going to say that SWTOR's combat is 'almost as fluid as WoW'? Really? You must not have a real good feel for character controls and combat. SWTOR had ability delay. SWTOR had out of sync global cooldown. SWTOR had a broken raid targeting. SWTOR's controls were shit - even Warhammer Online did it better.
3) Just because SWTOR copied WoW extensively and used a similar combat system (i.e tab targeting, multiple abilities, 3 talent trees per class...ect.) doesn't mean they were on the same level of WoW's combat. GW2's combat is far, FAR superior to SWTOR.
4) SWTOR's combat system was lazy. They copied but did not improve. SWTOR should be the poster child on how to fuck up a hundred million dollar project.
OP, I am actually going to agree that SWTOR had some of the more entertaining combat all the way up to level cap where gear broke it apart terribly particularly in PVP. I really enjoyed the personality and play style options of each class and wish more games would pick up on that theme. I even appreciated the auto facing when playing off my laptop (should never have been nerfed in today’s multi-device play environment.) I am not sure what it plays like now as I haven't touched it since like three months after launch.
SWTORs combat wasn't the best, but it definately was goodish and on par with WoW.
In general I prefer tab-target-combat over FPS-controls in a MMORPG, as I like my combat slower and more tactical instead of twitching around.
Looking at the last 12 years of playing MMOs I actually liked the combat of TSW very much, as you needed to decide which skills to pack beforehand instead of having 40 skills in your hotbars, and the dodging in TSW was making a difference aswell as casting while moving. And EvE Online, allthough very diffferent was very tactical and more about thinking beforehand aswell.
With this in mind Wildstar seems rather good, as it has alot of what TSW had.
I dont know how people say its combat was good.
Not only does it to this day suffer from ability delay, but it really brought nothing new to the genre outside of hutball. Not saying you need to revolutionize the market, but most of the abilities were taken directly from WoW.
The Engine cant handle massive OWPvP, and they are still in ranked preseason from over a year ago for rated BGs.
PvE-wise, the raiding was easy and buggy as hell.
I'm not going to outright say it was bad, but it wasn't and isnt anything to write home about.
Originally posted by Yalexy SWTORs combat wasn't the best, but it definately was goodish and on par with WoW. In general I prefer tab-target-combat over FPS-controls in a MMORPG, as I like my combat slower and more tactical instead of twitching around. Looking at the last 12 years of playing MMOs I actually liked the combat of TSW very much, as you needed to decide which skills to pack beforehand instead of having 40 skills in your hotbars, and the dodging in TSW was making a difference aswell as casting while moving. And EvE Online, allthough very diffferent was very tactical and more about thinking beforehand aswell. With this in mind Wildstar seems rather good, as it has alot of what TSW had.
on par with wow? definately NOT, and the numbers prove that
ability delay, GCD misfires, swtor has all the bad Things an mmo can have in that category
I will say that SWTOR's combat felt solid. The animations were smooth and responsive, the sound effects were meaty, the characters had weight and the pace was decent.
Originally posted by Foomerang I will say that SWTOR's combat felt solid. The animations were smooth and responsive, the sound effects were meaty, the characters had weight and the pace was decent.
I really liked the way all of the blasters sounded the same, and that sound they used was not at all like the blasters in Star Wars.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Originally posted by ignore_me Originally posted by Foomerang I will say that SWTOR's combat felt solid. The animations were smooth and responsive, the sound effects were meaty, the characters had weight and the pace was decent.
People act like WOW's combat didn't have horrendous delay and clunkyness to it in the first 1-2 years. Well, as an old timer who played from release, it was way worse than TOR.
TOR's combat is pretty solid, the animations are fantastic and the variety between the classes is one of the main draws that makes me dabble in a few hours of TOR a day (above all the story of course). Probably the first theme-park i've bothered to play since the first 2 months of Aion's release.
City of Heroes' pre-issue 11 combat was awesome, you heard it here folks. I also loved the animation of some of the professions in pre-NGE SWG, pikeman, TKA and fencer were all about art and looking fancy doing it- and Jedi had some of the sickest moves.
TOR's combat is too generic, typical combat that you see in just about every MMORPG game these days.
Originally posted by furh98 Originally posted by D_TOX Originally posted by Foomerang I will say that SWTOR's combat felt solid. The animations were smooth and responsive, the sound effects were meaty, the characters had weight and the pace was decent.
I agree with both of these. You read all the negative posters its always "SWTOR HAD", "the game HAD" , "HAD" is the key word in all their negative posters post. Two years in they have fixed all the combat issues "THEY HAD", and no WOW did not HAVE the most fluid combat at launch.
These negative posters will never talk about all the content they have added, why servers have been full the last two weekend, why there are tons of people on forming groups, running raids, doing datacron hunts, and taking down world bosses and so on and so on. Oh no they are to fixated at HAD HAD HAD...Well it FIXED FIXED FIXED most of what the negative posters have to say.
2 full instances on the fleet does not mean anything, since it used to have 4+ full instances on the fleet. Even 5! That was before the instance limits were lowered to boot (lower players per instance now help lag in a bad engine).
If you meant full servers, I don't think even TORStatus caught that on tape. Shows a flatlined zero for full servers worldwide. (http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends) .. check "full" also .. it's unmarked by default because it's useless data, but if you want to see zeros across the board, check it off.
I even looked at the server usage and I missed it too, because most I saw was Heavy (not Very Heavy, definitely not Full).
But I do think that SWTOR had better combat than WoW, with it's choreographed combat. Visually very nice (when not a lot of people are around of course!)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcpRecognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Originally posted by rojo6934 Originally posted by IridescentOrk Age of Conan owns combat in every single way.
i have to say that Age of Conan (along with GW2) have my two favorite combat systems ever. AoC combat is just fantastic.
AoC's combat is still pretty good - the original one (in beta before release) was the best melee combat IMO ever.
Then they dumbed it down for release - it was still decent, you could do animation canceling with some skill, but they took away the granularity of attacks.
Then they dumbed it down again (no animation canceling possible, fewer combo keys) - and that's what's in AoC today.
It's still decent, but nowhere near as good as it once was, and still way ahead of most other games.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by rojo6934 Originally posted by IridescentOrk Age of Conan owns combat in every single way.
you can still cancel animations, but they changed the fact that a canceled animation will not do any dmg anymore, it will dmg aslong u are doing the animation
Originally posted by furh98 Originally posted by Karteli Originally posted by furh98 Originally posted by D_TOX Originally posted by Foomerang I will say that SWTOR's combat felt solid. The animations were smooth and responsive, the sound effects were meaty, the characters had weight and the pace was decent.
Full as in active...we had 4 instances on fleet on Friday, 5 on Hoth, 4 in the new area, and i was leveling up on Alderaan there were 2 instances. I don't follow websites just so i can post stuff on a website especially when I probably don't even play the game. But thats just me I guess.
Well at least I know your definition now. As in, not "full" with a queue.
You play on a pretty active server (one of the top 2?) The max in zone instances was lowered anyways, to what, half what it used to be?
Just an off note, if you criticize others so badly on all your accounts here, why not spend more time playing the game you love? It boggles actual SWTOR fans who want to make the game better..
Focus on the superior combat of SWTOR .. yet the horrible engine ... or the comparison between SWTOR's usage of hotbar combat versus generic console games (twitch based). I dunno.
If you are trying to promote your favorite game, accusing fans of never playing the game isn't going to win any cookies.
Originally posted by Mad+Dog Originally posted by aesperus Originally posted by Waterlily lol
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
Originally posted by simplius a bunch vs. a few,,is that balanced PVP? yes, you could get a few kills in those battles, but that stopped, when they FIXED THE GAME and it didnt exactly help the lonely leveller, when meeting a ganksquad in the levelling process, did it? the essence of your post is: i liked PVP, when it was broken, and against newbie opponents
This was from awhile ago but the thread's still at the top so...
I did not say that the game wasn't broken in some ways in Vanilla times. But one way in which the game has been worse since the first expansion:
1 pvp geared character can kill almost any number of non-maxxed characters. 5, 10, 15... maybe if they formed a raid and the guy stood still for them? Before the first expac a bunch of lowbies could fight off a max level assassin stomping lowbies (not just because of exploits - gear and stats weren't much higher on most at top level in Vanilla). Since the first expansion those lowbies need a bodyguard on call because the max level characters became invulnerable Mac trucks. That disparity killed world pvp in the lowbie areas and I do miss it. It was an element of leveling and a perk of being on pvp server - much more exciting.
this is the effect of power creeping
the game was balanced, before the expansion
after that, PVPers had a new, and more powerful tier of PVP gear
but the lowbies would still be the same
add the fact, that a lvl 70 hits harder, than a lvl 60
Combat systems are a matter of taste.
For me, AoC had the best combat system, followed really by SWTOR.
I also found Tera's combat system really entertaining, but as said, its a matter of what you like.
After playing for a whole decade the tab-targeting thing, i found myself enjoying the action and targetskill based combat systems a lot more fun.
Is OP serious here?
Tactical hotbar combat is actually what I prefer but SWTOR's version of it is terrible. Seriously, LOTRO,Rift,Vanguard, pretty much any hotbar game I've played has combat that feels better to me than SWTOR's.
I enjoyed the story in SWTOR, hated pretty much everything else, especially the combat.
Originally posted by iridescence Is OP serious here? Tactical hotbar combat is actually what I prefer but SWTOR's version of it is terrible. Seriously, LOTRO,Rift,Vanguard, pretty much any hotbar game I've played has combat that feels better to me than SWTOR's. I enjoyed the story in SWTOR, hated pretty much everything else, especially the combat.
stories, and companions, i liked
the combat felt very grindy, as if, every mob has the duty , to keep the player, for a certain time
i know, they cant just throw the shinies on the ground, and let the players have it all at once
but, other games have the decency , to deliver far more, easier mobs, and in more different zones
hacking away with a lightsabre, on a , supposedly, unarmored opponent doesnt feel right
Originally posted by tixylix I loved SWTORs combat when the game came out, it was about the only thing that game got right.
You got to be kidding on this one... It was actually one of the worst part of the game. Clunky as hell, LoS wasn't even working properly, delayed abilities because of animations, UI poorly coded that allowed you to cheat pretty easily and made some abilities OP as hell. If this is your definition of "good combat" or "combat done right" you clearly don't know much about how combat works in a MMO.