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I have grouped and found the community feeling in every "solo" MMO. Maybe YOU are the problem

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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,903Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I ride trains all the time and I dont talk to anyone in them or require to talk to ride the train.

    Maybe you should ask yourself if MMO are for you then. A lot of people would be better off playing single player games.

     There's nothing wrong with wanting to play solo at times or during certain types of situations like leveling. When you're with a group, you're playing how they are, at their pace and on their time, being forced into that at all times would get old fast. People talk about mechanics removing freedom, nothing would remove it more than having to play that way.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I ride trains all the time and I dont talk to anyone in them or require to talk to ride the train.

    Maybe you should ask yourself if MMO are for you then. A lot of people would be better off playing single player games.

    That's like telling someone they shouldn't go to a party because they are shy and like to stand in the back and be around people rather than out dancing with them.  Some just like to be with other people even if they aren't talking to them.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,903Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Distopia

     

    Most of my ice-breakers in SWG came from the SW material, same with AOC and the Conan material. Most build discussion I had any part in were on the forums. I met my guild because I did decent in PVP. None of my long term social relationships in SWG came from asking questions about game mechanics.

    If the topic here was about talking in passing I'd agree, but building community and friendships goes far beyond that. You have to want that to form that, without the want it doesn't happen. There are many games I didn't care enough about to care to make friends there. I think that's the issue many others have as well. But hey that's just my view.

     


     

    Of course. Im not saying the game mechanics made people have lasting friendships. Im saying that SWG offered so many ways to initiate a conversation. Once you talked to someone a few times about game stuff, it makes it that much easier to segue into real life. Ice breaking is all it is. But thats an important step to discovering new friendships. Games like SWG by their design allowed for a TON more ice breaking opportunities than mainstream MMOs today.

    I get what you're saying. I'm not saying your point is off, it just doesn't mirror my own experience, or how I played. I'm sure many would feel the same way as you about it.

    I'll go a little deeper in regard to my last point above. I just look at the games that didn't turn out so hot for fans of games like SWG or EQ. They have communities and pretty tightly wrapped ones, they as a community have something in the game they can relate around.

    For many of us we get into a game see this or that lacking and think to ourselves, so what's the point? WE don't go much farther than that.  When you ask yourself that it's likely the game isn't what you want. WIth this type of outlook on the game, there's really going to be a lack of motivation in terms of socialization, not to mention playing long term.

    When you find your game, this topic typically isn't given a thought not even a miniscule one. As you've found something you will stick with, you couldn't care less who leaves or stays, you just know you'll be playing with those who do.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,516Member Uncommon

    Asheron's Call had the best grouping system, it didnt force you to group, but it encouraged you to group.

    If you by yourself you got 100% exp

    2 people (55% I think you got) (rather than just 50% split)

    all the way up to 9 people in your group, you got 25% exp (not exactly sure of number) where in other games you would get that much exp at 4 players.

    It encouraged grouping, people wanted to join, talk and be friendly.

    BRING THIS BACK

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I ride trains all the time and I dont talk to anyone in them or require to talk to ride the train.

    Maybe you should ask yourself if MMO are for you then. A lot of people would be better off playing single player games.

    It is for me because I like soloing and grouping and having the options to do so when i want.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Distopia   Most of my ice-breakers in SWG came from the SW material, same with AOC and the Conan material. Most build discussion I had any part in were on the forums. I met my guild because I did decent in PVP. None of my long term social relationships in SWG came from asking questions about game mechanics. If the topic here was about talking in passing I'd agree, but building community and friendships goes far beyond that. You have to want that to form that, without the want it doesn't happen. There are many games I didn't care enough about to care to make friends there. I think that's the issue many others have as well. But hey that's just my view.  
      Of course. Im not saying the game mechanics made people have lasting friendships. Im saying that SWG offered so many ways to initiate a conversation. Once you talked to someone a few times about game stuff, it makes it that much easier to segue into real life. Ice breaking is all it is. But thats an important step to discovering new friendships. Games like SWG by their design allowed for a TON more ice breaking opportunities than mainstream MMOs today.
    I get what you're saying. I'm not saying your point is off, it just doesn't mirror my own experience, or how I played I'm sure many would feel the same way as you about it though.

    I'll go a little deeper in regard to my last point above. I just look at the games that didn't turn out so hot for fans of games like SWG or EQ. They have communities and pretty tightly wrapped ones, they all have something in the game they can relate with as a community.

    For many of us we get into a game see this or that lacking and think to ourselves, so what's the point? WE don't go much farther than that.  When you ask yourself that it's likely the game isn't what you want. WIth this type of outlook on the game, there's really going to be a lack of motivation in terms of socialization not to mention playing long term.

    When you find your game, this topic typically isn't given a thought not even a miniscule one. As you've found something you will stick with, you couldn't care less who leaves or stays, you just know you'll be playing with those who do.



    There is definitely that. Ive been a part of those types of game communities. I think partof it may be also that there is just so much to choose from there is no comiseration anymore haha. People struggled through broken mmos together because it was the best it could get. Now theres so many choices, we can hop over to a never ending stream games.
  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by Ecoces
    Originally posted by munx4555

    Truth be told I don't mind if grouping isnt forced, however in a mmo there should be significant advantages to grouping over soloing, which hasnt really been the case since eq1, which is a problem.

     

    go solo in WoW and try to get the best loot in the game

     

    Thank you for this, it was amazing.

    If my community was like this, I'd get out as fast as possible.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by keenber
    I can't speak for GW2 but EQ2,WoW and Rift ain't solo games all three of them promote group play and use the trinity and have tab targeting. The solo games are Tera,NW and every other action based modern mmo that has been released in recent years.

    Tera has a hard trinity system and was very much group oriented.

    NW has 2-3 group dungeons available at any given time starting at about lvl 10 I think.

    Tera and NW are no more or less solo-esk than WoW, EQ2, current EQ, Rift or GW2.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I ride trains all the time and I dont talk to anyone in them or require to talk to ride the train.

    Maybe you should ask yourself if MMO are for you then. A lot of people would be better off playing single player games.

    Have you ever ridden the subway in NY?

    The T in Boston?

    The only time anyone really talks is to say "Help!" or "What you looking at?" or "Please stop peeing on me!"

    They are all pretty much silent encounters unless you boarded with friends. Then it's you and them whispering...

     

    Having options such as soloing and grouping are needed in an MMO. While soloing you may just run into someone who needs help, you form a group. Then someone else joins...

    Socializing comes down to the player, not the mechanic. I have been in many groups in early EQ where we would be grouped for hours and the only words uttered were "Pulling" "Brb" "Afk 1min" or "OOM Meding" other than that complete silence.

     

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


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  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,903Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     



    There is definitely that. Ive been a part of those types of game communities. I think partof it may be also that there is just so much to choose from there is no comiseration anymore haha. People struggled through broken mmos together because it was the best it could get. Now theres so many choices, we can hop over to a never ending stream games.

     

    That is probably a big part of it as well. One I didn't think to mention as it does have some numerical evidence, F2P consistently seems to go up and down on a steady basis, mostly around content updates. OR it could just mean there's a crap ton of us floating from game to game hoping to find the one. :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member

    People will group for necessity, they will communicate if they wish but also if it will benefit them.

     

    Personally, I feel people never fail to disappoint, I group with friends and I carefully pick my guildies because I like to play at a high challenge (if that could be said) level.  Yes...I would consider myself elitist, in game, in life, at work, and in most every aspect of my life.  This is a benefit in my opinion, I am extremely critical of myself and those around me (more myself) which is why I rarely group unless it's necessary.

    Does this mean MMOs aren't for me?  No.  That's asinine.

     

    MMOs and 1-player games differ in more ways than just being MMO.  When I play an MMO it's because there is no end, I can continue to progress, I can choose to solo, I can choose to group, I have options but in the end there is no "ending".  I don't care, at all, about story (Bastion is really the only exception here, brilliantly implemented story) and the great thing about MMOs....very little story unless you want it.

     

    MMOs are like sexuality.  There are the normal ways that people choose to engage/enjoy/etc, but there are MANY ways for each and every person to enjoy the acts involved or many varied acts, as it were.  No one way is the right way or the wrong way, the point is enjoyment, so be accepting and leave it at that.  You may choose to enjoy x in y way, that doesn't make it any better or right than my way.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

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  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Foomerang  
    There is definitely that. Ive been a part of those types of game communities. I think partof it may be also that there is just so much to choose from there is no comiseration anymore haha. People struggled through broken mmos together because it was the best it could get. Now theres so many choices, we can hop over to a never ending stream games.  
    That is probably a big part of it as well. One I didn't think to mention as it does have some numerical evidence, F2P consistently seems to go up and down on a steady basis, mostly around content updates. OR it could just mean there's a crap ton of us floating from game to game hoping to find the one. :)

    Yeah I have a personal checklist of features I look for in an mmo. But sometimes I feel that list wont matter if I find a good group of gamers to play the same game with. Maybe my list isnt so much the features themselves but the type of gamers they hopefully will attract.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I ride trains all the time and I dont talk to anyone in them or require to talk to ride the train.

    Maybe you should ask yourself if MMO are for you then. A lot of people would be better off playing single player games.

    Have you ever ridden the subway in NY?

    The T in Boston?

    The only time anyone really talks is to say "Help!" or "What you looking at?" or "Please stop peeing on me!"

    They are all pretty much silent encounters unless you boarded with friends. Then it's you and them whispering...

     

    Having options such as soloing and grouping are needed in an MMO. While soloing you may just run into someone who needs help, you form a group. Then someone else joins...

    Socializing comes down to the player, not the mechanic. I have been in many groups in early EQ where we would be grouped for hours and the only words uttered were "Pulling" "Brb" "Afk 1min" or "OOM Meding" other than that complete silence.

     

    Same with DC metro and Northern VA, hell sometimes people look at me like im gonna do something lol. And he act like I dont socialize just because I dont talk to people on the train.  Just like in modern mmos, parts of my real life I solo and other parts I socialize.   And nothing is forced.  The whole point I play mmos is having that virtual world feeling, because even when im soloing its cool to know im still effecting other players in small ways like through crafting and economy or sometimes maybe run into them and help them out with something and then go back to whatever I was doing.

    Its like being wolverine whos a loner most of his life and find the x-men and do big things with them but still goes out and does his own thing time to time.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by ego13

    People will group for necessity, they will communicate if they wish but also if it will benefit them.

     

    Personally, I feel people never fail to disappoint, I group with friends and I carefully pick my guildies because I like to play at a high challenge (if that could be said) level.  Yes...I would consider myself elitist, in game, in life, at work, and in most every aspect of my life.  This is a benefit in my opinion, I am extremely critical of myself and those around me (more myself) which is why I rarely group unless it's necessary.

    Does this mean MMOs aren't for me?  No.  That's asinine.

     

    MMOs and 1-player games differ in more ways than just being MMO.  When I play an MMO it's because there is no end, I can continue to progress, I can choose to solo, I can choose to group, I have options but in the end there is no "ending".  I don't care, at all, about story (Bastion is really the only exception here, brilliantly implemented story) and the great thing about MMOs....very little story unless you want it.

     

    MMOs are like sexuality.  There are the normal ways that people choose to engage/enjoy/etc, but there are MANY ways for each and every person to enjoy the acts involved or many varied acts, as it were.  No one way is the right way or the wrong way, the point is enjoyment, so be accepting and leave it at that.  You may choose to enjoy x in y way, that doesn't make it any better or right than my way.

    About time you said something smart enough I could agree with.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
    Yes you can group in those games but its kinda like having 5 people to screw in a light bulb......
  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon

    What I have found in the modern MMO (GW2, SWTOR, etc.) is most group content is based around speed runs. I see people here discussing how it makes the game more social, I totally disagree. I have been in countless groups back when I played GW2, SWTOR and other recent releases where I tried to engage in conversation with a pick up group and nobody responded.

     

    It was literally ok we are doing this content, skipping this, or in some cases not a word said the entire time. No social interaction at all. We have guilds for big time social interaction, but group content social interaction has been sorely lacking.

     

    Now with that said, I'm all for having group content. And this is where the key is in my view. In EQ and EQ2, communication meant something. You almost had to communicate and feel comfortable with your teammates even in a PUG. I can't tell you the amount of interesting conversations that were had regarding class builds, content, the dungeon we were running or countless other things BEFORE we even started the content in EQ and EQ2. In other words it wasn't one giant zerg that required little to no interaction to complete.

     

    I still want solo or more to the point duo content as my wife and I play together, but I also want challenging group content as well. How do they plan on striking the balance in EQnext is what we don't know yet and how they are going to strike the balance with how groups work together will determine alot.

  • munx4555munx4555 moiPosts: 169Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Yes you can group in those games but its kinda like having 5 people to screw in a light bulb......

    ding ding, this is the problem, outside of raiding and dungeons it becomes counter productive to group up, I don't belive grouping should be forced, It should however be strongly encouraged.

  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    if you need a game to promote mechanics that FORCE people to group with you ... you are the problem. I have run with groups constantly in EQ2, WoW, Guild Wars 2, Rift and countless other "solo MMORPGs".

     

    see thats the beauty of MMORPGs right now,  people have options, they can either solo or they can group IF THEY WANT. recently in guild wars 2 my guild took 2 groups and started over, just running from event to event leveling up some new players from another guild game. it was amazing and fun but if someone wanted to go and do their own thing they could by themselves.

     

    forced grouping to do anything in a game is bad game design, sorry but someone has to say it. sure there should be some content that can only be done as a group however designing the whole game NOW around the concept of "you must group or get left behind" is destined to fail.

     

    so to all those out there saying they can't find groups or the community feeling and games need to force grouping. its most likely YOUR attitude that's keeping people from interacting and grouping with you.

     Agreed!

     

    Also I am one of those advocates who after 14 years playing MMO's still consider Guilds the perennial social construct and interactive mode.  That's not to say I've never carried on a cool and enjoyable conversation or have never interacted with others in an MMO but the primary way I do so is through my guild mates. Other players are just there to create the sense of virtuality that a single player game can not recreate.  Look at it like this, do you converse with every person you meet during the course of a day?  I suspect most do not, they go about their own business....this is the same scenario in an MMO.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    Do you seriously think people in games are your real friend ?  A lot of the time they are just using you so they can obtain something for themselves.

     

    Human interaction tho is what people seek in mmo's .  

     

    There is global chat which are just spam fests and full of trolls usually so remove that.

    Remove trade auction houses

    Remove mailbox

    Remove automatic group finders.

     

    Force people to actually have to type in some sort of words like "hi can I join your group ?

     

    camps were great for that in EQ , you knew where the camps were so finding them and asking to join the group was easy .

     

     

     

     

  • supertouchmesupertouchme corpus christi, TXPosts: 68Member

    The OP misses the point of "encouraged" grouping. The social dynamic is completely different when you're tackling obstacles with other people and having to depend on them to survive and succeed.

    If you don't understand that there are social nuances you can't experience while soloing your way through a game then I don't know what to tell you.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,903Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by supertouchme

    The OP misses the point of "encouraged" grouping. The social dynamic is completely different when you're tackling obstacles with other people and having to depend on them to survive and succeed.

    If you don't understand that there are social nuances you can't experience while soloing your way through a game then I don't know what to tell you.

    I'm just trying to figure out how you've come to such a conclusion. Who said anything about there being a problem with mechanics or content that encourages grouping? Every MMO has that, solo oriented or not.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by munx4555
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Yes you can group in those games but its kinda like having 5 people to screw in a light bulb......

    ding ding, this is the problem, outside of raiding and dungeons it becomes counter productive to group up, I don't belive grouping should be forced, It should however be strongly encouraged.

    The message is clear.  Grouping needs to be encouraged.  It takes more time and effort.  It has more risk and dangers.  It needs to be superior method of progressing in the game.  Gear should be better / more frequent.  Exp / skill gains should be quicker, etc.

    But soloing should be there for those who want it.

    A healthy medium between solo content availability and group content viability.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Halp! I want to leave the city, but I can't go solo! I've been here for three weeks! Please group with me!!!!!!!!!

    Has there ever been a game other than FXI where everything your level would kill you and it was impossible to solo?  That is honestly the only one I can think of where it wasn't possible to solo.  Well at least back in the day it wasn't, I know it has changed over the last few years.

     

    Well, I can't really think of another way to force grouping without making the mobs so tough that trying to solo them would mean certain death.

     

    So fill the world with hard to kill elite mobs and corral the soloists inside the cities until they finally bend to the groupers demands. 

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Halp! I want to leave the city, but I can't go solo! I've been here for three weeks! Please group with me!!!!!!!!!

    Has there ever been a game other than FXI where everything your level would kill you and it was impossible to solo?  That is honestly the only one I can think of where it wasn't possible to solo.  Well at least back in the day it wasn't, I know it has changed over the last few years.

     

    Well, I can't really think of another way to force grouping without making the mobs so tough that trying to solo them would mean certain death.

     

    So fill the world with hard to kill elite mobs and corral the soloists inside the cities until they finally bend to the groupers demands. 

    The answer is simple.

    You don't try to force people to group all the time.

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Halp! I want to leave the city, but I can't go solo! I've been here for three weeks! Please group with me!!!!!!!!!

    Has there ever been a game other than FXI where everything your level would kill you and it was impossible to solo?  That is honestly the only one I can think of where it wasn't possible to solo.  Well at least back in the day it wasn't, I know it has changed over the last few years.

     

    Well, I can't really think of another way to force grouping without making the mobs so tough that trying to solo them would mean certain death.

     

    So fill the world with hard to kill elite mobs and corral the soloists inside the cities until they finally bend to the groupers demands. 

    The answer is simple.

    You don't try to force people to group all the time.

     

    But I thought soloing was the Deviljuice...

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