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Never felt so alone...

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  • lazerlike42lazerlike42 Chelmsford, MAPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    Originally posted by Serelisk
    I really hate to come here and defend Guild Wars 2 after it has me so disenchanted for so many reasons recently, but the social issue in this game is not one of those problems. **Snipped for length**
    There's more than just mentioned above, but the point is that this game does more than most to encourage a social experience while not forcing it for those people who don't want to rely on or be forced to adhere to a required social connection just to play the game at all. What it sounds like from most of the comments on this thread, and what has likely caused so many "it's your own fault" responses, is that people have just ended up in these circumstances of having not seen or heard other players talking, or have not had the same experience they supposedly had in another game, and instead of making a case for why this did or did not happen, have decided to blame some element of the game for it. Whether this does or doesn't hold up is usually going to be based on almost 100% anecdotal experience, but there's people who will tell you that they have not suffered from the same issues, and all of us aren't ArenaNet white knight fanboys willing to suspend logic and reasoning to defend their honor like some on the official forums actually are. It's because we have had a social experience and have made those "real friends" people keep alluding to.

    If this is the case, then why do you believe you have had social experiences and found these real friends when so many have not?  

    Is it not possible that you are the exceptions, that you are simply lucky, as opposed to others having been unlucky?  After all, I've given very precise reasons why it seems that I have yet to have any meaningful social experience in GW2, as have others.  You're another one of these "join a guild" types, but how do I go about joining a guild?  I'm sorry, I'm not going to respond to someone spamming chat or posting on a forum saying they are recruiting.  I'm not going to say "Looking for guild" in chat and accept the first invite I get, because the reality is that 99.9999999999% of the guilds that take people in that way are terrible, both in terms of skill and in terms of "personality."  If I am going to join a guild, I want to do so because I've come to know some of them over time and recognized that socially and talent-wise they are a good fit for me, or because an officer notices my performance and thinks I'd be a good addition to the guild - and these kinds of things just don't and in fact because of the design can't happen in Guild Wars 2.

    At the end of the day, there are a lot of MMOs out there, and a lot of people complaining about them on the internet, but GW2 is the only one that I have really ever seen with consistent complaints about the social aspects of the game.  Other games get attacked for content, ease, grind, unoriginality, cash shops, balance, etc. etc. etc., but you just don't see folks whining about the social side of things.  With GW2, you do, often, and folks need to take off whatever rose colored glasses they have on and realize that this means something.

    While I don't normally come to defend a Blackgate, in this case I'll make an exception. I can also attest to what Serelisk has said, and have experienced the same myself on many occasions. Both of HoD, & FA when I was there, but also on SoR. Serelisk isn't the exception. What he describes is extremely common in GW2. It's all about 'do you want to make the effort to be social & part of a group? or not?' That's one of the beautiful things about the game. It doesn't force guilds to hold on to toxic players, because they need an extra healer, or tank. If you're being a dick, or don't contribute at all to your server, or guild, or friends, they are NOT obligated to entertain you.

    Now, there's a HUGE problem with the paragraph you wrote, which I've highlighted in green. Care to guess?

    You are blatantly admitting to avoiding quite a few ways the game has provided to meet people. What you are saying amounts to 'the game is anti-social, because I don't want to ask about guilds, nor respond to guilds looking for new members'. In essence, you are expecting people to magically come to you, get to know you, and form a guild around you, for no reason at all. And I'm sorry, but that's not how the world works. It makes no sense for anyone to do that. None.

    If you want to meet people, you actually have to take it upon yourself to go out and meet them. Talk, interact. Ask about some of those guilds that are recruiting. Guilds in this game are EASY. If a guild sucks, leave it, no harm done. If you want to make a more tight-knit group, then you probably need to make some friends FIRST. Heck, most of  those guilds you are describing either come from the remaining members of an older guild, friends who know each other in real life, or people who actively try and recruit & maintain a guild of a tighter-core group.

    I can tell you for a fact that these guilds exist, and are often oriented around some specific aspect of the game. There are guilds just for friends, guilds for dedicated fractal / dungeoneering groups, guilds for sPvP / tourney's, guilds for havok / roaming in WvW. If you want to be in one, then you need to either make the effort to find one, or make the effort to make one and maintain it. It's that simple.

    Most people in  this game are also in multiple guilds by now. You can't expect everyone in the game to want to do what you want all the time.

    I disagree with a great many things you have said.

     

    First, if one game requires effort to find social contact and in another it happens without effort, then which game has a better social aspect and which has a more questionable social aspect? 

     

    Second, you say it makes no sense for anyone to reach out to me but that I must reach out to them.  Do you really believe this?  Is this how it works anywhere, either in life or in game?  Of course not.  After all, why on earth would I ever want to be "friends" with people who don't consider me worth talking to?  In life and in games, sometimes we get to know people because we said hi to them, and sometimes its because they said hi to us.  You're really painting a very bleek picture of the community in GW2 as a group of self-important folks who are too good for anyone else.  I certainly hope that that's not how everyone is in this game.

     

    Third, you have echoed the same assertion as many others have: "talk to people."  "Say hi."  "Invite people to groups." Etc.  - all despite the fact that multiple people here have reported trying these things repeatedly only to be repeatedly ignored.

     

    Most importantly, I want to very, very strongly disagree with the characterization of my "green paragraph."  You are putting it forth as though I am avoiding doing things which the game provides for meeting people. I see it quite differently: I avoid these things precisely because I believe that they are not good ways for meeting people.  I have played many games in my life, and all my experience has showed me beyond doubt that joining guilds as the first step to meeting people is an awful idea.  On the contrary, joining a guild needs to be the last step which is made after you have already met a good group of people.

    I will repeat: any guild which recruits in chat or on forums is almost certainly a guild of poorly skilled players with questionable social qualities.  Guilds with talented, fun people to be around don't go around recruiting like that - precisely because they want to maintain themselves as groups of talented and/or fun people.  I can speak even from experience as a very high ranking officer in a popular guild in another game: if you go around recruiting this way, you bring in players who are either bad at the game or socially problematic or both.  Rather, almost every guild which is worth being in I have ever known in any game brings people in after they have gotten to know the person just from seeing them "around the server."  Unfortunately, GW2 just really doesn't afford an opportunity to get to know people in this way, especially when it comes to PvP.  

    Could I try out this guild, try out that one, try out another one until I found a fit?  Yes, but this wouldn't really result in any kind of positive outcome because, as I said, all guilds which recruit in this way are generally bad places to be, so I would be doing nothing more than jumping from one bad spot to another.  I know it sounds like a harsh thing to say, but it just is how it is.  Moreover, being a "guild hopper" is just a bad thing.  It makes it more and more difficult to ever actually find a good home.

  • page975page975 Scranton, PAPosts: 312Member

    I really like this Laiserlike42 guy above me.......He tells it like it is, better than most could put it into words.

     

     

    GW2 is not designed for a community.  Players that are calling it home have to FORCE IT !!!!...I must say some are doing a good job, no thanks to the developers.  But this leaves a lot of players without a community.

     

    - Heavy on the Dynamic events.  Why group ?... this had been stated over and over and over ! Yet it falls on def ears.

    - Zones - Now this is another major killer...  How you ask ?.....Well, ill tell ya.  In most mmos you have Zones just like GW2, but in GW2 you have mini quest hubs made for two levels with only one objective, then you move on.  Who is whare ?  I can't Recognize anyone. In and out like a thief in the night !

    -Fast paced, tooooooo fast. Events are too easy with no thinking, no planing. 20 people can suck and it does not matter. Do you really care about people doing this ?....ITS NOT THEIR FAULT, but game design.

     

    Find a good guild my butt !...........I'm a level 11, I'm having some fun for now with this game that is not an mmo.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,135Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    Originally posted by aesperus
    *snipped for length*

    I disagree with a great many things you have said.

    First, if one game requires effort to find social contact and in another it happens without effort, then which game has a better social aspect and which has a more questionable social aspect? 

    Second, you say it makes no sense for anyone to reach out to me but that I must reach out to them.  Do you really believe this?  Is this how it works anywhere, either in life or in game?  Of course not.  After all, why on earth would I ever want to be "friends" with people who don't consider me worth talking to?  In life and in games, sometimes we get to know people because we said hi to them, and sometimes its because they said hi to us.  You're really painting a very bleek picture of the community in GW2 as a group of self-important folks who are too good for anyone else.  I certainly hope that that's not how everyone is in this game.

    Third, you have echoed the same assertion as many others have: "talk to people."  "Say hi."  "Invite people to groups." Etc.  - all despite the fact that multiple people here have reported trying these things repeatedly only to be repeatedly ignored.

    Most importantly, I want to very, very strongly disagree with the characterization of my "green paragraph."  You are putting it forth as though I am avoiding doing things which the game provides for meeting people. I see it quite differently: I avoid these things precisely because I believe that they are not good ways for meeting people.  I have played many games in my life, and all my experience has showed me beyond doubt that joining guilds as the first step to meeting people is an awful idea.  On the contrary, joining a guild needs to be the last step which is made after you have already met a good group of people.

    I will repeat: any guild which recruits in chat or on forums is almost certainly a guild of poorly skilled players with questionable social qualities.  Guilds with talented, fun people to be around don't go around recruiting like that - precisely because they want to maintain themselves as groups of talented and/or fun people.  I can speak even from experience as a very high ranking officer in a popular guild in another game: if you go around recruiting this way, you bring in players who are either bad at the game or socially problematic or both.  Rather, almost every guild which is worth being in I have ever known in any game brings people in after they have gotten to know the person just from seeing them "around the server."  Unfortunately, GW2 just really doesn't afford an opportunity to get to know people in this way, especially when it comes to PvP.  

    Could I try out this guild, try out that one, try out another one until I found a fit?  Yes, but this wouldn't really result in any kind of positive outcome because, as I said, all guilds which recruit in this way are generally bad places to be, so I would be doing nothing more than jumping from one bad spot to another.  I know it sounds like a harsh thing to say, but it just is how it is.  Moreover, being a "guild hopper" is just a bad thing.  It makes it more and more difficult to ever actually find a good home.

    Life requires you to put effort into socializing. There's isn't a single exception to this that I can think of. While we have tools to make socializing easier (not unlike the tools already present in GW2), none of them does all the work for you. Unless you count watching a movie with dialogue as 'socializing'.

    Secondly, YES. It DOES NOT make sense for random people (who do not know who you are from a hole in the wall) to reach out to you. This, again, is part of how the real world works. Look at job interviews for example. What often happens with jobs is that they first ask the people already working there (already part of that community) if they know anyone who can do the job they need, and do it well. When that fails, they then generally refer to some database of applicants, in which other people they know have vouched for them. When that fails, they'll look at the people who sought them out, and give them a try. The one exception to this is with things like conventions where they go out and advertise 'hey we exist, maybe you'd be interested in joining!'. Even then, they get you to come to them at the end of the day. This trend extends passed jobs to things like user groups, clubs, etc. It's how the social nature of human beings works.

    To go back to what you said about guilds. If you wanted to get more people into a guild you were making, how would you do it? Would you go out and advertise around the game? Or would you walk up to each person 1 by 1, and say 'lets be best friends right now!' ? It just doesn't make any sense.

    - I just logged off from the game, and guess what? There's people running around various zones, pinging events, goofing off, and chatting. There's people in Lion's Arch fartin' around, crafting, playing the TP, and chatting. There's people in Divinity's Reach, enjoying the new content & chatting. There's people pinging events & world bosses. There's people posting dungeon, & fractal groups on gw2lfg.com. 2 of my guilds are running events. People are chatting in our server-wide teamspeak. There's WvW going on. Some sPvP groups & tourneys. Guilds advertising.

    If that doesn't do it for you, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. I've been playing MMOs since EQ, and while I've had fond memories and enjoyed many of those games, I know they didn't have half the things I just mentioned.

    ***P.S.***

    Please don't mistaken me saying 'it doesn't make sense for random people to reach out to you' to mean that it doesn't happen. People talk. I'm merely pointing out that you can't expect every person in the game to do it. Or that the people that do will somehow be next to you all the time. That's an incredibly self-centered viewpoint. You don't know what other people have got going on. Many have already found friends to talk to, are busy chatting with other people, etc. But that doesn't stop things like random social interactions from happening. It does mean you need to talk if you want to be heard.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Seems like the today gamers want everyone else to spark that first "enter key" to start a conversation, pretty much like 5 guys standing in the corner of a school dance and were to scared to make contact to the girls across the room until that cool kid stepped up.

    And NO, Social interaction are NOT raid/dungeons of any sort, you join a pug do the shit you have to do and either insult everyone for wiping or saying thanks great run and leave the group or you doing it with the guild on farm mode are not social interaction.

    Using emotes are not social interaction it only helps with the roleplay aspect and we all know the RP players are few, so dont even bring that shit up.

    Social interaction are you and only you reaching out, taking the first step with the chat, getting something going and go from there, dont blame the game, blame yourself  for waiting on that special guy who suppose to make all the magic happen.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,135Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Seems like the today gamers want everyone else to spark that first "enter key" to start a conversation, pretty much like 5 guys standing the corner of a school dance and were to scared to make contact to the girls across the room until that cool kid stepped up. And NO, Social interacation are NOT raid/dungeons of any sort, you join a pug do the shit you have to do and either insult everyone for wiping or saing thanks great run and leave the group. Social interaction are you and only you reaching out either on main chat or in local, I bet plenty will respond.

    Well said.

    I'm amazed at how much explanation is needed for such a simple concept.

    EDIT: Though I will say, just once more, if you aren't seeing anything in chat (I don't play on every single server, so I dunno; maybe you're playing on one of the servers I've never been to), transfering in this game isn't that expensive (~65g to transfer to the highest populated servers). Seek out a server that fits what you're looking for, and JOIN it. I play on one of the tier1 NA servers, and never have a problem finding people to talk to or play with. I can also vouch for the tier2 & tier3 servers. If you are tier4 or below, well then maybe most of the people who cared about the community moved to a new server. I dunno.

    Each server has their own community, and some are more inclusive of all timezones, while others aren't. I know some of my friends guest to other servers during off-peak hours. It's really not that much trouble.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Seems like the today gamers want everyone else to spark that first "enter key" to start a conversation, pretty much like 5 guys standing the corner of a school dance and were to scared to make contact to the girls across the room until that cool kid stepped up. And NO, Social interacation are NOT raid/dungeons of any sort, you join a pug do the shit you have to do and either insult everyone for wiping or saing thanks great run and leave the group. Social interaction are you and only you reaching out either on main chat or in local, I bet plenty will respond.

    Well said.

    I'm amazed at how much explanation is needed for such a simple concept.

    EDIT: Though I will say, just once more, if you aren't seeing anything in chat (I don't play on every single server, so I dunno; maybe you're playing on one of the servers I've never been to), transfering in this game isn't that expensive (~65g to transfer to the highest populated servers). Seek out a server that fits what you're looking for, and JOIN it. I play on one of the tier1 NA servers, and never have a problem finding people to talk to or play with. I can also vouch for the tier2 & tier3 servers. If you are tier4 or below, well then maybe most of the people who cared about the community moved to a new server. I dunno.

    Each server has their own community, and some are more inclusive of all timezones, while others aren't. I know some of my friends guest to other servers during off-peak hours. It's really not that much trouble.

     

    I've been drunk writning here so I had made many correction with my post hehe

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • lazerlike42lazerlike42 Chelmsford, MAPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    Originally posted by aesperus
    *snipped for length*

    I disagree with a great many things you have said.

    First, if one game requires effort to find social contact and in another it happens without effort, then which game has a better social aspect and which has a more questionable social aspect? 

    Second, you say it makes no sense for anyone to reach out to me but that I must reach out to them.  Do you really believe this?  Is this how it works anywhere, either in life or in game?  Of course not.  After all, why on earth would I ever want to be "friends" with people who don't consider me worth talking to?  In life and in games, sometimes we get to know people because we said hi to them, and sometimes its because they said hi to us.  You're really painting a very bleek picture of the community in GW2 as a group of self-important folks who are too good for anyone else.  I certainly hope that that's not how everyone is in this game.

    Third, you have echoed the same assertion as many others have: "talk to people."  "Say hi."  "Invite people to groups." Etc.  - all despite the fact that multiple people here have reported trying these things repeatedly only to be repeatedly ignored.

    Most importantly, I want to very, very strongly disagree with the characterization of my "green paragraph."  You are putting it forth as though I am avoiding doing things which the game provides for meeting people. I see it quite differently: I avoid these things precisely because I believe that they are not good ways for meeting people.  I have played many games in my life, and all my experience has showed me beyond doubt that joining guilds as the first step to meeting people is an awful idea.  On the contrary, joining a guild needs to be the last step which is made after you have already met a good group of people.

    I will repeat: any guild which recruits in chat or on forums is almost certainly a guild of poorly skilled players with questionable social qualities.  Guilds with talented, fun people to be around don't go around recruiting like that - precisely because they want to maintain themselves as groups of talented and/or fun people.  I can speak even from experience as a very high ranking officer in a popular guild in another game: if you go around recruiting this way, you bring in players who are either bad at the game or socially problematic or both.  Rather, almost every guild which is worth being in I have ever known in any game brings people in after they have gotten to know the person just from seeing them "around the server."  Unfortunately, GW2 just really doesn't afford an opportunity to get to know people in this way, especially when it comes to PvP.  

    Could I try out this guild, try out that one, try out another one until I found a fit?  Yes, but this wouldn't really result in any kind of positive outcome because, as I said, all guilds which recruit in this way are generally bad places to be, so I would be doing nothing more than jumping from one bad spot to another.  I know it sounds like a harsh thing to say, but it just is how it is.  Moreover, being a "guild hopper" is just a bad thing.  It makes it more and more difficult to ever actually find a good home.

    Life requires you to put effort into socializing. There's isn't a single exception to this that I can think of. While we have tools to make socializing easier (not unlike the tools already present in GW2), none of them does all the work for you. Unless you count watching a movie with dialogue as 'socializing'.

    Secondly, YES. It DOES NOT make sense for random people (who do not know who you are from a hole in the wall) to reach out to you. This, again, is part of how the real world works. Look at job interviews for example. What often happens with jobs is that they first ask the people already working there (already part of that community) if they know anyone who can do the job they need, and do it well. When that fails, they then generally refer to some database of applicants, in which other people they know have vouched for them. When that fails, they'll look at the people who sought them out, and give them a try. The one exception to this is with things like conventions where they go out and advertise 'hey we exist, maybe you'd be interested in joining!'. Even then, they get you to come to them at the end of the day. This trend extends passed jobs to things like user groups, clubs, etc. It's how the social nature of human beings works.

    To go back to what you said about guilds. If you wanted to get more people into a guild you were making, how would you do it? Would you go out and advertise around the game? Or would you walk up to each person 1 by 1, and say 'lets be best friends right now!' ? It just doesn't make any sense.

    - I just logged off from the game, and guess what? There's people running around various zones, pinging events, goofing off, and chatting. There's people in Lion's Arch fartin' around, crafting, playing the TP, and chatting. There's people in Divinity's Reach, enjoying the new content & chatting. There's people pinging events & world bosses. There's people posting dungeon, & fractal groups on gw2lfg.com. 2 of my guilds are running events. People are chatting in our server-wide teamspeak. There's WvW going on. Some sPvP groups & tourneys. Guilds advertising.

    If that doesn't do it for you, I'm not really sure what you're looking for. I've been playing MMOs since EQ, and while I've had fond memories and enjoyed many of those games, I know they didn't have half the things I just mentioned.

    ***P.S.***

    Please don't mistaken me saying 'it doesn't make sense for random people to reach out to you' to mean that it doesn't happen. People talk. I'm merely pointing out that you can't expect every person in the game to do it. Or that the people that do will somehow be next to you all the time. That's an incredibly self-centered viewpoint. You don't know what other people have got going on. Many have already found friends to talk to, are busy chatting with other people, etc. But that doesn't stop things like random social interactions from happening. It does mean you need to talk if you want to be heard.

    Making social connections isn't the same as finding a job.  It's a two way street - it has to be, otherwise how is there really any kind of "friendship" present at all?  Let me give an example.  A few years ago there was a young lady I was interested in.  We spoke now and then and had a variety of interactions.  However, it became apparent at a certain point that every single interaction, I initiated.  Every conversation was by my doing, never hers.  I realized that she was uninterested and stopped talking to her. Now I could have continued starting up conversations, but what would have been the point?  Why would I want to talk with someone who was uninterested in me enough to never start anything?  

    On the other hand, I do have friends. Some of these friendships began because I heard something interesting in their conversation and said hi, while others happened because they reached out to me.  The point is, again, social connections aren't a one way street.  Saying that I need to be the one to reach out to people to meet anyone is, to be frank, absurd.  It implies that nobody considers anyone else of enough value to say hi.  That's just not how friendships form, either in games or in life.  

     

    As for guilds, remember: I am in guilds in other games, and indeed am a high ranking officer (2nd in charge) in one.  How do I bring new people in?  The same way every other guild of any quality that I am aware of does it: we invite people that we know from having seen them over the course of days and weeks playing the game and who we've developed a social connection with.  It's an incredibly false dichotomy to put forth the choice you suggest.  Here's how it works:  I play the game with my guildies.  In playing the game, I and my guildies each see a number of faces over and over in the game.  As a result, some people become "friends" with one another.  Alternatively, I or other guildmates may see a given player performing well over the course of days or weeks.  People in the guild suggest new members to myself or the other officers, citing their consistent performance and/or their good "social qualities" as reasons.  We then might invite that person to the guild.  Another way it can work is that one of these people plays over the course of days or weeks and has fun playing with people from my guild.  Because of this, they ask if they can join.  

     

    In other words, the relationships and the personal recognition come first, and then the guilding up happens - not the other way around.  The problem I have had in GW2, and which others have cited as well, is that the particular design of the game makes it very unlikely to see the same person more than once, let alone over the course of days or weeks.  Lots of folks can find a person to group with on any one day for any one bit of content, but its significantly more rare to actually see a person consistently enough to feel any kind of connection to them and want to join up with them for something like a guild.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    I find that GW2 can be lonely if you choose to be less social, which I usually am.  My guild is always doing things together and I will often just continue doing my own thing, but I've been in groups with them before, tons of people doing events, dungeons, and guild challenges and having a blast, forging friendships, etc.  I know that GW2 isn't a lonely game, but I can choose to be alone if I want. I did have one problem with the current Living Story, however.  I mean, it's an MMO right?  What's with the Queen's Gauntlet challenges being A.) really hard and B.) being solo content?  A minor nitpick, sure, but it seemed out of place.

    What you say is definitely true. It  very much comes down to personal choice.

    When it comes to queen's guantlet, most of that stuff is definitely soloable. However, I guess it depends on your class. As my necro I was tearing through those champions no problem. And outside of the guantlet (which is supposed to be a test of individual strength) everything else is very group oriented.

    I heard the same thing from a friend (re: the Necro), saying he burned down that wind chick, whatever her name was, very quickly using his condition build, but alas, all my work has gone into my tough/vit/power Guardian so burning her down before too many tornadoes form is unlikely lol

  • twruletwrule Daly City, CAPosts: 1,251Member
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    It seems that there are at least 3 primary types of responses to the "problem of lonliness" being made here. 1) Folks who say they understand this feeling but assert that the lonely just need to go above and beyond and be super-social to meet people 1) Several people here have reported trying to be super-social and still found no success with this.  Moreover, we all seem to report that in other games we've had no trouble making connections without the need to behave out of the ordinary, so why ought we need to do so here?   Perhaps more importantly, can a person really in fact make meaningful connections by behaving differently than he normally would?  For example, I am a more quiet person in life (much less so in games).  I have a harder time making friends because of this.  It has been suggested to me to be more outgoing to make friends, but in doing so I would be making friends with others who are themselves more outgoing and therefore not really a good match for me.  By simply "being myself," I make friends with those whose personalities are compatible with mine.

    I hope you didn't mean to lump my response into this, because that is certainly not what I meant. I never would ask anyone to be 'super-social' or 'more out-going'. I don't even see the sorts of typical 'social' relations you can expect to get through an MMO as something desirable or as a cure to loneliness. If you want meaningful relationships with other people, where you can 'be yourself', you can't expect that they will be developed without effort though, even if opportunities for them happen to fall into your lap. Eventually you have to concern yourself as much or more with the other person and their concerns than with yourself, even if it means bending some of the things society expects of you or (in gaming) that the mechanics usher you toward.

    As an 'introverted' person myself, I have, for much of my life, had the same attitude, that I shouldn't have to act 'inauthentic' - and there is truth to that - you shouldn't have to. I don't think there is anything special about being 'extroverted' either. But you can be authentic and still put in that little bit of extra effort, when the opportunity presents itself, to engage others. That doesn't mean you need to go flagging down every person you pass, you just need to develop a sense for who is willing to relate to you and who isn't.

    Sadly, most people are not so receptive, and that carries over into games. Other games disguise it better than others, but GW2 lays it bare. You could say that is a fault of GW2 for not pushing us to form superficial relations with others, and if that was all you were after, it would make sense to, but I get the feeling you would not be satisfied with that. I think it's worth questioning yourself on just what sort of relationship you are expecting to find, and thinking about how it could come about.

  • lazerlike42lazerlike42 Chelmsford, MAPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by twrule
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    It seems that there are at least 3 primary types of responses to the "problem of lonliness" being made here. 1) Folks who say they understand this feeling but assert that the lonely just need to go above and beyond and be super-social to meet people 1) Several people here have reported trying to be super-social and still found no success with this.  Moreover, we all seem to report that in other games we've had no trouble making connections without the need to behave out of the ordinary, so why ought we need to do so here?   Perhaps more importantly, can a person really in fact make meaningful connections by behaving differently than he normally would?  For example, I am a more quiet person in life (much less so in games).  I have a harder time making friends because of this.  It has been suggested to me to be more outgoing to make friends, but in doing so I would be making friends with others who are themselves more outgoing and therefore not really a good match for me.  By simply "being myself," I make friends with those whose personalities are compatible with mine.

    I hope you didn't mean to lump my response into this, because that is certainly not what I meant. I never would ask anyone to be 'super-social' or 'more out-going'. I don't even see the sorts of typical 'social' relations you can expect to get through an MMO as something desirable or as a cure to loneliness. If you want meaningful relationships with other people, where you can 'be yourself', you can't expect that they will be developed without effort though, even if opportunities for them happen to fall into your lap. Eventually you have to concern yourself as much or more with the other person and their concerns than with yourself, even if it means bending some of the things society expects of you or (in gaming) that the mechanics usher you toward.

    As an 'introverted' person myself, I have, for much of my life, had the same attitude, that I shouldn't have to act 'inauthentic' - and there is truth to that - you shouldn't have to. I don't think there is anything special about being 'extroverted' either. But you can be authentic and still put in that little bit of extra effort, when the opportunity presents itself, to engage others. That doesn't mean you need to go flagging down every person you meet, you just need to develop a sense for who is willing to relate to you and who isn't.

    Sadly, most people are not so receptive, and that carries over into games. Other games disguise it better than others, but GW2 lays it bare. You could say that is a fault of GW2 for not pushing us to form superficial relations with others, and if that was all you were after, it would make sense to, but I get the feeling you would not be satisfied with that. I think it's worth questioning yourself on just what sort of relationship you are expecting to find, and thinking about how it could come about.

    First, I'd like to compliment you on a reasoned response. 

    Second, I'd like to answer your third paragraph with my experiences from TOR. In that game, I feel like I have a number of good connections with people, and I don't feel like I got them by "superficial" means or by being much anything other than my naturally introverted self.  I PvP a lot, and so over the course of time I just come to recognize names in the warzones.  While on the fleet waiting for matches, many of these same names talk in chat.  Now at the same time, folks being to recognize me in warzones, and they also see me talking in the chat in between matches.  There is also the opportunity to do emotes to one another and things like that.  It is all small, but it all adds up to getting invited to join groups, to having people talk to me about joining the guild, and to in general having a sense of community.  I'm "close" with some of these people, and I'm more casually "acquainted" with others.  

    The point is that I know these people, and they know me.  From this simple process of doing the same thing with folks over the course of time, there are dozens of other players who I have some relationship with, and some of them "closer" relationships.  On the other hand, who are the PvPers that I tend not to feel this way about?  The randoms that invite me to groups because I got top damage in a warzone they were in or something.  I usually never see them again after that day.  Ultimately, I feel like GW2 provides the chance for this second kind of "socialization," but not the first, extended kind that it seems to me actually produces friendships and relationships.

  • time007time007 Posts: 750Member Uncommon
    Why do I want to talk or group with anyone?  I don't need them.  I can level tons faster alone without these guys slowing me down.  I guarantee you, I can kill the 10 wolves, and pick up the 10 apples faster without you guys slowing me down.  I'm definitely not transferring servers, to find a new group of people to pick apples and kill wolves with. 

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
    image

  • time007time007 Posts: 750Member Uncommon
    Oh plus I just finished.  I'm gonna go turn this in, bye!

    IMPORTANT:  Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING.  Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally.  If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead.  I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING.  Thank you.
    image

  • DeaconXDeaconX Posts: 3,051Member Uncommon
    Play with some friends and it's a blast - especially if you learn how to really work well together.

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • FaelsunFaelsun Brandon, MSPosts: 492Member Uncommon

    Personally I dislike forced grouping and any kind of forced party progression but that had nothing to do with why my toons felt empty or I felt bored. The sense of emptiness or lack of accomplishment people has is just that. One of the fundamental flaws of the game is that no ones toon is useful to anyone else. In UO you could be very solitary but still make money on the private market doing any number of things from crafting to headhunting for gold. There is no way to make yourself useful to other players other than a superficial way in GW2. This translates into every part of the game, crafting, pvp, character progression. You start off in a starting zone and are then launched on a chaotic good crusade like a pack of lemmings out the door. Since none of you need each other for anything it looks like a pack of hyenas looking for bones to chew on coming out the starting gate. 

    You are in a very safe bubble gum world, don't have to worry about pvp or any real danger THEN the actual pvp is as shallow as the character development, which in itself starts at a very shallow unrewarding character stat/skill system that is extremely inflexible and simple.  So you go about making your "hybrid" which after 1000s of attempts always ends up being some kind of dps battery spam machine. You take your spam bot into whatever pvp map you wanted to be on with the other spam bots and spam the crap out of each other. Everyone is so predictable and all the skills have such low cd and low duration and range at least for the average players its a souless zergfest.  

     

    I think the problem is a varied lack of social options across the board. As is you option is join frenzied zerg and complete quests and whatnot. I can take any popular sandbox or Themepark and my social options are highly varied. In EVE or WOW if I wanted to make a solo style world pvp assassin style toon I could do that, crafter check, raider check, in GW2 you are not defined by those choices because you cant make them. I think when you mix that with a very unrewarding and simplistic skill system that denies any real theorycraft and you make crafting utterly  useless in the game world then you end up with a game where people stop and ask 20+ levels into it " why am I doing this?" which until GW2 I had never done before. 

  • observerobserver Posts: 3,586Member Rare
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    I find that GW2 can be lonely if you choose to be less social, which I usually am.  My guild is always doing things together and I will often just continue doing my own thing, but I've been in groups with them before, tons of people doing events, dungeons, and guild challenges and having a blast, forging friendships, etc.  I know that GW2 isn't a lonely game, but I can choose to be alone if I want. I did have one problem with the current Living Story, however.  I mean, it's an MMO right?  What's with the Queen's Gauntlet challenges being A.) really hard and B.) being solo content?  A minor nitpick, sure, but it seemed out of place.

    This is how i am in MMOs too.  I socialize when i want to, and participate when i want to.  I don't need any game mechanics forcing me to group in order to have fun or progress my character.  I like having the options to do content when i want.

    I agree with you on the Living Story.  I felt disconnected with this update, when compared to the rest of the world.

  • hettllohettllo SofiaPosts: 1Member

    Guild Wars 2 is a great game as far as temporary satisfying one's needs. Or at least my needs. Simply put: this MMO is too casual oriented / friendly. The freedom of choice to go solo and do whatever you want sounds awesome at first, but it completely destroys the sense of competitiveness once you reach end-game. Sure, there's the PvP thing, but its ranking system  is "meh" and it really does not matter at all.

    Do not get me wrong - I played GW2 daily for over 3 months when it first came out, but after the initial excitement settled down, I got bored. Long story short - there is nothing that this game has to offer in a long-term "relationship", there isn't much you can achieve and the lack of attention-span drawing content tops off the disappointment, which OP is experiencing. Other players really do not give a flying rat's ass about this game, because there isn't much to give a flying rat's ass for.

  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 586Member Uncommon
    The only efficient way I've found to get someone to care about you in GW2 is responding to one of the zillion guild recruitment spammers in the chat. You tell them you want to join their guild, that will work. They'll invite you to their guild, but not to socialize, but to force you to represent it so they can get benefit off your playtime. After that, it's back to being ignored by the game community, even the members of your own guild.

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • twruletwrule Daly City, CAPosts: 1,251Member
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    Originally posted by twrule
    Originally posted by lazerlike42
    It seems that there are at least 3 primary types of responses to the "problem of lonliness" being made here. 1) Folks who say they understand this feeling but assert that the lonely just need to go above and beyond and be super-social to meet people 1) Several people here have reported trying to be super-social and still found no success with this.  Moreover, we all seem to report that in other games we've had no trouble making connections without the need to behave out of the ordinary, so why ought we need to do so here?   Perhaps more importantly, can a person really in fact make meaningful connections by behaving differently than he normally would?  For example, I am a more quiet person in life (much less so in games).  I have a harder time making friends because of this.  It has been suggested to me to be more outgoing to make friends, but in doing so I would be making friends with others who are themselves more outgoing and therefore not really a good match for me.  By simply "being myself," I make friends with those whose personalities are compatible with mine.

    I hope you didn't mean to lump my response into this, because that is certainly not what I meant. I never would ask anyone to be 'super-social' or 'more out-going'. I don't even see the sorts of typical 'social' relations you can expect to get through an MMO as something desirable or as a cure to loneliness. If you want meaningful relationships with other people, where you can 'be yourself', you can't expect that they will be developed without effort though, even if opportunities for them happen to fall into your lap. Eventually you have to concern yourself as much or more with the other person and their concerns than with yourself, even if it means bending some of the things society expects of you or (in gaming) that the mechanics usher you toward.

    As an 'introverted' person myself, I have, for much of my life, had the same attitude, that I shouldn't have to act 'inauthentic' - and there is truth to that - you shouldn't have to. I don't think there is anything special about being 'extroverted' either. But you can be authentic and still put in that little bit of extra effort, when the opportunity presents itself, to engage others. That doesn't mean you need to go flagging down every person you meet, you just need to develop a sense for who is willing to relate to you and who isn't.

    Sadly, most people are not so receptive, and that carries over into games. Other games disguise it better than others, but GW2 lays it bare. You could say that is a fault of GW2 for not pushing us to form superficial relations with others, and if that was all you were after, it would make sense to, but I get the feeling you would not be satisfied with that. I think it's worth questioning yourself on just what sort of relationship you are expecting to find, and thinking about how it could come about.

    First, I'd like to compliment you on a reasoned response. 

    Second, I'd like to answer your third paragraph with my experiences from TOR. In that game, I feel like I have a number of good connections with people, and I don't feel like I got them by "superficial" means or by being much anything other than my naturally introverted self.  I PvP a lot, and so over the course of time I just come to recognize names in the warzones.  While on the fleet waiting for matches, many of these same names talk in chat.  Now at the same time, folks being to recognize me in warzones, and they also see me talking in the chat in between matches.  There is also the opportunity to do emotes to one another and things like that.  It is all small, but it all adds up to getting invited to join groups, to having people talk to me about joining the guild, and to in general having a sense of community.  I'm "close" with some of these people, and I'm more casually "acquainted" with others.  

    The point is that I know these people, and they know me.  From this simple process of doing the same thing with folks over the course of time, there are dozens of other players who I have some relationship with, and some of them "closer" relationships.  On the other hand, who are the PvPers that I tend not to feel this way about?  The randoms that invite me to groups because I got top damage in a warzone they were in or something.  I usually never see them again after that day.  Ultimately, I feel like GW2 provides the chance for this second kind of "socialization," but not the first, extended kind that it seems to me actually produces friendships and relationships.

    I wasn't questioning that society or game mechanics can ultimately push one into places where they find opportunities (to put in the effort) for relationships that are not merely superficial, I was just questioning the degree to which you seem to want to rely on such mechanisms. I think it is fallacious to look back on what got you those "close" relationships and conclude that it must have been primarily the game mechanics, so you put your faith in such mechanics to do the same work for you in the future...the mechanics may have been a factor, but they were more likely incidental beside the effort you and your friends put into them; nothing in the system itself makes the difference between a superficial or mere acquaintanceship and a "close" relationship - that's up to the persons involved.

    Again, I'm not here to defend GW2 or disparage any other game, you may be right that we can think of an MMO as a system or set of systems whose goal is to yield certain species of socialization. But in my view, 'close' relationships are something entirely qualitatively different from any form of mere 'socialization', so they are by definition something the system can't hope to yield on its own. Whether these relationships arise amidst the other forms of socialization has more to do with persons than systems, and it seems backwards to put our faith in an impersonal system to save us from a loneliness brought on by the lack of adequate interpersonal relations...it seems to me to be just that sort of attitude which is a contributing source to the problem of loneliness in the first place.

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