Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Massively: It's OK if EverQuest Next is a niche game

TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member

"Enough is enough. Enough of the same game already. It's time to get some new ideas into the genre."

 

Last weekend's reveal had Dave saying this shortly after they began, and so Jef Reahard began his Tattered Notebook article with this quote to stress his point:  that EQN is going to be different.  He sums up the community's concerns fairly well, making notes of PvP, progression, trinity combat, raiding, and other highlights from threads this last weeks.  He even address the GW2 comparisons.  While Jef recognizes that the fans had expectations and hopes, the rest of the article hinges on the above quote by Dave; that change is coming, that it is needed, and, indeed, that even though the community has been clamoring for it for years the angst level is high now that change has arrived.

 

"As ever, the primary problem with MMOs in general and EQN in particular is people, especially those people who refuse to step outside of their comfort zone or, worse, who attempt to force EQN into the well-worn genre box that already limits EverQuest, WoW, and their thousands of offspring.

And I know, I know, we must be inclusive. Every new game must appeal to everyone and blah blah blah. Except no. Every new game does not need to appeal to everyone."

 

I found the article to be a very good read.  I have to say that I agree with it.  What do you think?

image
«13

Comments

  • NadiliNadili Grand Forks, BCPosts: 197Member
    I liked the article I think for players it's fine if it's niche, but SoE has all the eggs in the EQN basket right now I don't think they will be happy with 500k playerbase.  I haven't seen anything about budget yet but with outsourcing to storybricks and voxel it must be up there.  

    image
  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 760Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadili
    I liked the article I think for players it's fine if it's niche, but SoE has all the eggs in the EQN basket right now I don't think they will be happy with 500k playerbase.  I haven't seen anything about budget yet but with outsourcing to storybricks and voxel it must be up there.  

    VoxelFarm is made by a single guy. The license is probably pretty low considering it's used in a bunch of indie games. The main cost of games is salaries anyhow, SOE said they had 79 developers working on EQN right now. As comparison, SWTOR and GW2 had over 200 developers...

    Georgeson said at PAX East that he wasn't making a mass-audience game too. You can take that as you want.

  • FionnFionn Austin, TXPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Nadili
    I liked the article I think for players it's fine if it's niche, but SoE has all the eggs in the EQN basket right now I don't think they will be happy with 500k playerbase.  I haven't seen anything about budget yet but with outsourcing to storybricks and voxel it must be up there.  

    VoxelFarm is made by a single guy. The license is probably pretty low considering it's used in a bunch of indie games. The main cost of games is salaries anyhow, SOE said they had 79 developers working on EQN right now. As comparison, SWTOR and GW2 had over 200 developers...

    Georgeson said at PAX East that he wasn't making a mass-audience game too. You can take that as you want.

    Not to mention SOE is a freaking genius to use Everquest Next Landmark as a free way to get people to make great looking things in the game without paying for more devs.  I hate minecraft but you bet your Grandma's stinky baby powder undies that I will be playing in EQ Next Landmark!  

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon
    I think Dave is awesome, agree with most of what he says. But time will tell once we see the game and what it holds for the future of the genre.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • KuanshuKuanshu Des Moines, IAPosts: 272Member

    This may be an interesting venture indeed if they are having Everquest Next Landmark on Playstation 4

    Winter 2013-14 is going to be a good time for a workforce of millions

    Hell its going to be free and socially interactive

    The possibilities!

    LOL

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    I like the idea behind EQN but sorry I don't put much stock in massively articles they always positively spin everything until 6 months after release and public opinion has spoken...then you may see a slightly negative article.Same goes for Ten Ton Hammer.

    Just my opinion of course.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    I like the idea behind EQN but sorry I don't put much stock in massively articles they always positively spin everything until 6 months after release and public opinion has spoken...then you may see a slightly negative article.Same goes for Ten Ton Hammer.

    Just my opinion of course.

    The article is fairly critical of the reveal for lack of information, as well as the community for the histrionics that we've seen this last week.  I found it to be balanced.  Agreeing that the industry needs change is not spin.  While I do not follow Massively or TTH (for no particular reason), I thought this article in and of itself was a good summation piece.

    image
  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Heretique
    I think Dave is awesome, agree with most of what he says. But time will tell once we see the game and what it holds for the future of the genre.

    I agree.  Its just too early and we don't have enough information.  What we really need are some good combat videos that aren't staged demos.  For instance, one of overland exploration and encounters, a dungeon crawl (non-raid), and a boss encounter.  These will undoubtedly be shown later, but more than what we have would be a very good thing.

    image
  • KnyttaKnytta Corning, NYPosts: 348Member Uncommon

    I think it was a refreshing way to look at it. It might not be the way EQN is going to be but it is nice to read something that at least tries to understand what they are trying to do. Imagine if they can get Sims players, and people more interested in a Virtual world, then it will be a niche MMO but a big game.

    The level of negativity to EQN is huge on most forums at this moment, imagine that the game is not even in Beta and they are at least trying to do something new.

     

    Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.

    He who can describe the flame does not burn.

    Petrarch


  • FionnFionn Austin, TXPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by Knytta

    I think it was a refreshing way to look at it. It might not be the way EQN is going to be but it is nice to read something that at least tries to understand what they are trying to do. Imagine if they can get Sims players, and people more interested in a Virtual world, then it will be a niche MMO but a big game.

    The level of negativity to EQN is huge on most forums at this moment, imagine that the game is not even in Beta and they are at least trying to do something new.

     

    I find a lot of the forums are positive about EQN, not negative.  So I am not sure what you are talking about.  

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member

    <blockquote><i>Originally posted by Kuanshu</i>
    <br><b><p>This may be an interesting venture indeed if they are having Everquest Next Landmark on Playstation 4</p><p>Winter 2013-14 is going to be a good time for a workforce of millions</p><p>Hell its going to be free and socially interactive</p><p>The possibilities!</p><p>LOL</p></b></blockquote>
    <p> </p>
    /
    /
    /


    EQNext on Ps4 would so totally rock. When they announced it, I please put it on PS4
    /
    /
    /

    I don't think they will though because they want to sell games. If EQNext makes it to Ps4 I am going to be one happy person regardless.
    /
    /

    /
    I know they have a strong product already with the Ps4, but Eqnext and eqnext landmark would have tipped the scales tremendously.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    as well as the community for the histrionics that we've seen this last week.

    understatement of the week. and thank gahd for them, understatements that is, because we have had plenty of the histrionics.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Fionn
    Originally posted by Knytta

    I think it was a refreshing way to look at it. It might not be the way EQN is going to be but it is nice to read something that at least tries to understand what they are trying to do. Imagine if they can get Sims players, and people more interested in a Virtual world, then it will be a niche MMO but a big game.

    The level of negativity to EQN is huge on most forums at this moment, imagine that the game is not even in Beta and they are at least trying to do something new.

     

    I find a lot of the forums are positive about EQN, not negative.  So I am not sure what you are talking about.  

    I think he was roughly generalizing with the general sentiment of this last week, which, as you noted, has lightened up.  The lengthiest threads here still revolve around the trinity, graphics, combat AI and the perceived abandonment of EQ's roots.  Fortunately, the naysayers and less contributive seem to be finding other forums to continue their fist-shaking.

    image
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    IT won't be ok for SoE, they definitely are not targeting niche....They are trying to hodge-podge a lot of demographics into hopefully creating a perfect storm for those in the center of a lot games, EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG (they throw the crafting word around a lot), Minecraft, and GW2.

     

    I guarantee you they will be disappointed if it isn't a big hit.

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    SoE said they were not trying to make a game to bleed players from EQ1 or EQ2. They did keep to their word there. Hard core fans of the other EQ games are not gona like this game from what I have seen. Always the few exceptions to the rule but this is far from EQ1 or EQ2. I already have a life time sub to GW2, so.....


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Rockniss

     

    Originally posted by Kuanshu

    This may be an interesting venture indeed if they are having Everquest Next Landmark on Playstation 4

    Winter 2013-14 is going to be a good time for a workforce of millions

    Hell its going to be free and socially interactive

    The possibilities!

    LOL

     

    /
    /
    /

     


    EQNext on Ps4 would so totally rock. When they announced it, I please put it on PS4
    /
    /
    /

    I don't think they will though because they want to sell games. If EQNext makes it to Ps4 I am going to be one happy person regardless.
    /
    /

    /
    I know they have a strong product already with the Ps4, but Eqnext and eqnext landmark would have tipped the scales tremendously.

    There was a comment in the Q&A about EQN being released for the PS4 and Dave and Darrin (I think) said that they were aiming for the PC.  So, as of yet, there isn't a PS4 confirmation for EQN.

    image
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,394Member Uncommon
    I'm still reading lots of articles about EQN being different, but they don't mention HOW. So far, what I've seen isn't particularly different from GW2, so... well, EQN may be a good game. It may be much better than GW2. It may be rather unique as far as combination of elements go. It may even be the Next Big Thing, although I doubt it will be. Still, all this talk about it being niche and unique while the previews and videos all paint a picture of a game that's similar to the latest MMO offerings with a few nice touches and was said to be aimed at the mainstream market... I just don't see it.
  • IneveraskforthisIneveraskforthis Macros 7Posts: 374Member

    I don't think SOE wanted or aiming EQE to be a niche game at all.

    They are trying to appeal to the pretty much everyone in the mmo market except few.

  • ShezziShezzi Seattle, WAPosts: 126Member

    Good article.

     

    Should mention that even though I've seen some negative reaction here and there, most of what I've seen and heard among fellow gamers and online has been very positive.

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    I like the idea behind EQN but sorry I don't put much stock in massively articles they always positively spin everything until 6 months after release and public opinion has spoken...then you may see a slightly negative article.Same goes for Ten Ton Hammer.

    Just my opinion of course.

    The article is fairly critical of the reveal for lack of information, as well as the community for the histrionics that we've seen this last week.  I found it to be balanced.  Agreeing that the industry needs change is not spin.  While I do not follow Massively or TTH (for no particular reason), I thought this article in and of itself was a good summation piece.

    The article is very critical at all.  The writer expresses their concerns but overall it is a brown nosing article typical of game news sites that is defending EQN from all the criticism.  The guy bashes on GW2 combat and yet defends against comparisons of EQN to GW2 (which I would say it's more akin to Neverwinter than GW2).

    SOE has made all these claims and supposed features and yet nothing was proven or shown how it will work, all it was was talk marketing hype BS.  All this hype just for an announcement and a glimpse at the graphics then everything else was all talk which countless MMO companies have done for their games.

    WoW was the game that created the mainstream middle since everyone one and their cousin were copying WoW's designs, NOT EQ.  So according to the writer's mentality TITAN must be the game to take the genre out of the detour.

    I'm still waiting for SOE to SHOW us how all their "innovative" features being accomplished.  Ryan from Goblinworks has his doubts about all this and made a comment about the destructability will require heavy instances and that it takes the first M out of MMO.  EQN feels like it's gonna be another soloist MMO.

    And what was up with the "enough is enough" phrase that was repeated like 50 times?  Does a quote and does nothing to make that quote have any meaning.  Through and through this article is a brown nosing article in an attempt to quell the criticisms of EQN.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    I'm still reading lots of articles about EQN being different, but they don't mention HOW. So far, what I've seen isn't particularly different from GW2, so... well, EQN may be a good game. It may be much better than GW2. It may be rather unique as far as combination of elements go. It may even be the Next Big Thing, although I doubt it will be. Still, all this talk about it being niche and unique while the previews and videos all paint a picture of a game that's similar to the latest MMO offerings with a few nice touches and was said to be aimed at the mainstream market... I just don't see it.

    Tweet from Dave.

     

    Hopefully they are going to release this very soon.

    image
  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Shezzi

    Good article.

     

    Should mention that even though I've seen some negative reaction here and there, most of what I've seen and heard among fellow gamers and online has been very positive.

    I agree.  I think the dust is settling and the Committee of Discontent has moved along.  The forum seems to be rather positive now and the discussions have been pretty good.  I think its important to keep an eye out for news, as the sources seem to be rather scattered at this point.  I thought this article was a good summation of events, but I'd also like to see some with more substantial game information.

    image
  • leoo88556leoo88556 TaipeiPosts: 135Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    I like the idea behind EQN but sorry I don't put much stock in massively articles they always positively spin everything until 6 months after release and public opinion has spoken...then you may see a slightly negative article.Same goes for Ten Ton Hammer.

    Just my opinion of course.

    Reviews? Articles? Public opinion?... as long as it doesn't kill a game I don't find it extremely important.

    People and critics talk shit about MMOs like SWTOR, GW2, RIFT, TSW... but these games are still up and running. They even throw in a lot of DLC or free content in the meantime. They're good games with flaws, just like WoW. The only difference is WoW is the king of the hill because it came first.

    Remember... we live in an age in which CoD is one of the most famous game on the market.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by furbans
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    I like the idea behind EQN but sorry I don't put much stock in massively articles they always positively spin everything until 6 months after release and public opinion has spoken...then you may see a slightly negative article.Same goes for Ten Ton Hammer.

    Just my opinion of course.

    The article is fairly critical of the reveal for lack of information, as well as the community for the histrionics that we've seen this last week.  I found it to be balanced.  Agreeing that the industry needs change is not spin.  While I do not follow Massively or TTH (for no particular reason), I thought this article in and of itself was a good summation piece.

    The article is very critical at all.  The writer expresses their concerns but overall it is a brown nosing article typical of game news sites that is defending EQN from all the criticism.  The guy bashes on GW2 combat and yet defends against comparisons of EQN to GW2 (which I would say it's more akin to Neverwinter than GW2).

    SOE has made all these claims and supposed features and yet nothing was proven or shown how it will work, all it was was talk marketing hype BS.  All this hype just for an announcement and a glimpse at the graphics then everything else was all talk which countless MMO companies have done for their games.

    WoW was the game that created the mainstream middle since everyone one and their cousin were copying WoW's designs, NOT EQ.  So according to the writer's mentality TITAN must be the game to take the genre out of the detour.

    I'm still waiting for SOE to SHOW us how all their "innovative" features being accomplished.  Ryan from Goblinworks has his doubts about all this and made a comment about the destructability will require heavy instances and that it takes the first M out of MMO.  EQN feels like it's gonna be another soloist MMO.

    And what was up with the "enough is enough" phrase that was repeated like 50 times?  Does a quote and does nothing to make that quote have any meaning.  Through and through this article is a brown nosing article in an attempt to quell the criticisms of EQN.

    That is an interesting opinion.

    image
  • KharishaKharisha RigaPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Nadili
    I liked the article I think for players it's fine if it's niche, but SoE has all the eggs in the EQN basket right now I don't think they will be happy with 500k playerbase.  I haven't seen anything about budget yet but with outsourcing to storybricks and voxel it must be up there.  

    VoxelFarm is made by a single guy. The license is probably pretty low considering it's used in a bunch of indie games. The main cost of games is salaries anyhow, SOE said they had 79 developers working on EQN right now. As comparison, SWTOR and GW2 had over 200 developers...

    Georgeson said at PAX East that he wasn't making a mass-audience game too. You can take that as you want.

    Bollocks. this is not the case.

     

    For example new Blizzard MMO (Titan) was at development with 30-70 developers. The reason was that it was not in full production but it had the most experienced developers that created World Of Warcraft. SOE worked on EQN with the most talented developers they had and development was a secret. You can't develop a secret project with the full production. No one does that. It is contr-productive because when you work before showing a product your concept can fail (and that is exactly what happened with Titan for example)

    Everquest MUST be big because it is their Flagship title. If something goes wrong then Sony will be the only one that will destroy it's development team and SOE in general. EQ is the biggest money maker in the past . EQ 1 was WoW for it's time and do you really believe that Sony will go "Ahh ok... Develop this for niche audience with 250K ppl"

     

    + when it will go to the full production expect this game to have much bigger production team.

«13
Sign In or Register to comment.