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Doom and Gloom, and Much ado about nothing.

evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member

I suppose it was all expected, I don't remember a time when there was ever as much positive reaction to anything here as the mounds of negativity.

 

I get the feeling that if Smedley saved a baby from a burning building people would say "He probably set the building on fire"

 

Or if EA donated millions to funding cancer research, people would opine "Yeah but you have to buy the Cure separately"

 

----

 

That said, to  what this post is actually about. I wanted to bring up a couple trends I've been noticing :

 

Everyone has their own opinion of what a sandbox is :

I mean literally EVERYONE, hell, some people see any structure at all as anti-sandbox. I don't understand what people expect..some of the descriptions I've seen or gripes about EQN would make UO or SWG seem like they werent sandbox games.

 

People are very paranoid about Landmark :

 

We all cry for a sandbox. We're literally given one to play in and the cries turn to "They're outsourcing development and making us do it!" or "It's too much like minecraft"

 

This should be a crafter's wetdream..but I suppose everyone is too focused on any idea of intellectual property (which considering you're using all of their tools and resources..would be very hard to argue, even down to textures)

 

The cartoony art-style :

 

Yes...I freaking hate it, I don't feel like it fits with the serious nature of EQ and it makes the game seem like a joke. That said, its still early and I can hope they alter things a little, its too late to change the style, but it can be toned down (The human female wasn't awful, most of the outrage is over Mufasa)

 

Also, bare in mind EQ2's art-style initially was very much the "clay-look" that we saw for EQN, so there is at least precedent in eq games for that.

 

 

Endless Speculation : 

The reveal was kinda crap, we learned very little about the game. This has led people to run around screaming doom and gloom. It's frustrating from both sides, but hopefully that will change as more information is released.

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Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,602Member Uncommon
     

    If a baby was saved from from a fire, it wasn't Smedley who did it, no mater what he says.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon

    Great write up OP.  I agree with everything you wrote.  It's a shame that mmo players are so bitter or trolltastic these days that when they are given a sandbox they burn it to the ground instantly.

     

    I for one will be playing Landmark, and EQN until the end of time.  I don't mind the art style at all, but I do wish they would turn the Kerran into a Kerran and not what we saw at the reveal.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member
    Yeah, they really picked possibly the worst looking stylized character they could have in the Kerran...it looks just, so bad.
  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    I think the face of the Kerran was cool, you know they will add different cat types.  But the body was just holy crap wtf is that.  Ogre body with Kerran head haha

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • TicklepinkTicklepink Ferrum, VAPosts: 119Member
    No..I don't know they're going to give us options. I was SURE that the wallpaper they released had nothing to do with the actual graphics..right?..how could it?..They couldn't possibly be considering a WoW look alike?..right?...then the release came.

    image
  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 
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  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member

    I'll be glad when only the fans are left to play.  Games are so much better post - failure.

     

    /2cents

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Crafters wet dream?  How so?  We don't know anything to say so....Them saying it is, doesn't make it so.

     

    As for sandbox, yeah people have different ideas for their ideal sandbox, I say ideal, because it ties into themepark, people use their ideal sandbox as what they want to call a sandbox, just as if you asked what would be people ideal themepark, you would get 100 different things.  People get caught up on this on both sides, when what people want from a themepark is not defined any better.

     

  • evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member
    Originally posted by ThomasN7
    When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 

    Don't make assumptions. The vocal minority might not like the art style, but they picked it with good market research,

     

    Also, the whole "8 skills" thing is the next phase of MMOs, Eq2 is stupid with how many skills you get, and its very difficult to balance. WoW has tons of just useless crap and a rotation of maybe 5 skills you use (that's being generous)

     

    So the question became..all the fluff ? or just make it realistic.

  • evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member
    Originally posted by ThomasN7
    When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 

    This is kind of how I feel..unless they are genuine about using the Roundtable to change the game. I'll believe that when they put something meaningful up there (like combat, classes, trinity, art style) instead of..."Do you like Ratonga?"

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon

    Alrighty the naysayers and trolls have found there way in.  Let me see here...

     

    - No Levels/Horizontal Progression

    - Voxel built world/fully destructable

    - Minecraft building style ability throughout Norrath

    - 8 starting classes, up to 40 interchangeable advanced classes

    - Permanent changes to the world via Rally Calls (PQ's), described as being the lore of the game as you shape the world.

    - Layered world, able to break through to deeper parts of the planet.

    - Factions that matter, like in EQ1. KOS to certain towns/guards

     

    I could go on, but with a starting list like this what else do you people want? Set aside the character models, and set aside the limited hotbar.  WHAT ELSE COULD YOU POSSIBLY WANT!

     

    And how the hell can you still call this a themepark?

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    I say there's too much Doom and Gloom and too much Glee and Praise for a game that right now is just Smoke and Mirrors.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    The interesting thing is the Doom and Gloomers are mostly EverQuest fans...which I thought were the target audience. I guess I was wrong...and now I know why. You can't please people who refuse to be pleased.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,297Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    The interesting thing is the Doom and Gloomers are mostly EverQuest fans...which I thought were the target audience. I guess I was wrong...and now I know why. You can't please people who refuse to be fooled.

    fixed that for you image

  • ShezziShezzi Seattle, WAPosts: 126Member

    Lol, fun post OP.

     

    Yup, Sony's going out a limb and is doing all kinds of exciting stuff with EQNext's multilayer, destructible, changing virtual world concept, and I'm very excited to play it.

     

    It's early days and we've only just started hearing about the various facets of the game. Info is still rather sketchy. eg. wonder what the other 35 classes are, and what Sony's plans for PvP are....

     

    Personally, I don't mind the art, buy hey, differences of opinion are to be expected. We humans are a contentious lot, and how we feel about art is more of a personal thing.

     

  • StrangerousStrangerous ny, ILPosts: 165Member

    I agree...however

     

    Nothing ticks me off more than reading post after post about a game being a sandbox, then getting into the game and finding out im forced to run a linear storyline quest, and theres npc's telling me what I need to do and determining who my enemies are...

     

    oh but it had time based progression and no class limits (other than the actual limits on classes) and your character walked around and did shit while you were off line....

     

    im looking at you wushu.... *prays the wushu ad-bot doesn't show up*

     

    I see the same thing with AA, look at the videos of Koreans quest hub hopping and I facepalm.

     

    I don't care if its sandbox or not, just don't BS me as to what type of game it really is just because the term sandbox is trendy (while all the sandboxes are 100% ignored by the community here)

     

    Either way, just want to play the game for what it is, no BS.

     

    Ill be playing this game for sure, eventhough I hate F2P mmorpgs...I have a lot of station cash left over from PS2 and I don't see any other opportunity to really get some use out of it.

     

    Certainly the game promises to be groundbreaking...but...how many times have we heard big promises that turn out to be...well the same old with a twist.  Hope this game isn't that.

     

    Also...not sure how I feel about an EQ game with horizontal progression...its very...un EQ like...in fact a lot about this game isn't very EQ-like...though the EQ thing has been beaten to a bloody pulp by the wow clones...

     

    I hope its half as good as SOE is saying it is...and I hope their Forgelight game engine doesn't wreck a third launch with issues, as it made Eq2 nearly unplayable to this day, and gave PS2 tons of issues with optimization issues.  Hope they got that all settled.

     

     

  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,059Member Uncommon

    Dont particularly think theres any more doom and gloom now than there was before the reveal.  If anything, people seem even more hopeful, although you'll notice a lot of people, myself included have adjusted their hype rating now that we have some facts.  

    Theres no doubt that SOE is back on top as far as concept is concerned, the problem most of us are having is with their desire to abolish so many good features that made us so passionate about Everquest, all in the name of innovation.  We expected them to, in some ways, go back and fix what Warcraft ruined with their all-inclusive catering to the lowest common denominator, but instead they've made it completely apparent that they intend to one up blizzard by breaking down every convention that makes a game challenging writing them off as "unnecessary", "excessive", "stupid", or exclusionary.  We expected more of them, but I guess the idea of having only a few million raving hardcore MMO fans couldn't measure up to the prospect of poaching as many dollars as possible from the casuals in their cash shops.


  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Dullahan

    Dont particularly think theres any more doom and gloom now than there was before the reveal.  If anything, people seem even more hopeful, although you'll notice a lot of people, myself included have adjusted their hype rating now that we have some facts.  

    Theres no doubt that SOE is back on top as far as concept is concerned, the problem most of us are having is with their desire to abolish so many good features that made us so passionate about Everquest, all in the name of innovation.  We expected them to, in some ways, go back and fix what Warcraft ruined with their all-inclusive catering to the lowest common denominator, but instead they've made it completely apparent that they intend to one up blizzard by breaking down every convention that makes a game challenging writing them off as "unnecessary", "excessive", "stupid", or exclusionary.  We expected more of them, but I guess the idea of having only a few million raving hardcore MMO fans couldn't measure up to the prospect of poaching as many dollars as possible from the casuals in their cash shops.

    Or maybe they're simply innovating by removing tired and worn out mechanics and replacing them with something far superior?

    Millions of "hardcore" mmo fans?  Ya we see how many millions are out there who would bite into the sandwich your selling.  Darkfall, Mortal Online, Eve.

    There ain't 900k players between the 3 of those games.  What makes you think rehashing more of the same, and slapping a "Hardcore" coat of paint on it would do any better?

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • ace80kace80k Lorton, VAPosts: 151Member Uncommon
    100% agree with the OP. I find the people who are complaining about the graphics/character models kind of funny. That's your opinion. Stop spouting off as if your opinion is as fact. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. Time to grow up and get out of the "me me me" phase because everything's not all about you. I have no problem with people pointing things out in a constructive manner, but some of you sound completely ridiculous and superficial. They said the game would be different, so you were warned. No need to be so surprised. Change is good (usually!).
  • DragonMyth88DragonMyth88 Orlando, FLPosts: 242Member Uncommon

    Pretty sure this hype train can't be derailed by just a few asshats speculating negatives about the game, but I could say the same for the people speculating positives but these positives are backed by EQnext 4 holy grails so its ok.

  • VentlusVentlus spanaway, WAPosts: 96Member
    well its just the vocal minority that you see the negativity with, alot of people don't even post on forums, so eq will have alot of players most likely either way 
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by evianwater
    Originally posted by ThomasN7
    When all you have is a tech demo I don't think it was wise idea to show anyone without solid gameplay because first impressions are everything. SOE is their own worst enemy. Then again it wouldn't have mattered anyway, very few  like the art style and the GW2 style combat with only 8 skills per class. 

    This is kind of how I feel..unless they are genuine about using the Roundtable to change the game. I'll believe that when they put something meaningful up there (like combat, classes, trinity, art style) instead of..."Do you like Ratonga?"

    Yeah that round table thing is a placebo.

    I'll be shocked if they ask anything close to:

    -Should we have more weapon abilities available for each weapon?

    -Should DPS be the only relevant class?

    -Are two weapons per class enough?

    -Would you prefer to have an alternate combat style available as an option?

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • DracockDracock Eugene, ORPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Yeah that round table thing is a placebo.

    I'll be shocked if they ask anything close to:

    -Should we have more weapon abilities available for each weapon?

    -Should DPS be the only relevant class?

    -Are two weapons per class enough?

    -Would you prefer to have an alternate combat style available as an option?

    Maybe they should go deeper.

    -Should we EQN be high fantasy? Why not futuristic?

    -Should David Georgeson stop beating his wife?

    -Why only 40 classes and not 80?

    -Vote on weather EQN should be an MMO

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by krulux

    Games are so much better post - failure.

    That requires an actual release first, right?

    I mean, we can award games that are still vapor, but we cannot actually play them...nor can they "fail" in any real sense of the word.

    Relax. Lots and lots of Doom Prophet activity still to go; but it's a normal function of this, and every other, gaming forum. And this title will not be delivered tomorrow.

    The more often Don Quixote straps on his Fanboy Armor and goes to joust the Hater Knight, the more intense the anti-fan movement grows. General Pyrrhus has a few words to deliver to you, before you begin your holy quest.

     

    Ya'll have forgotten the GW2 Fan Swell -> Hater Swell lesson? That was only six months ago.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    I doubt there will ever be another game on site that dredges up the amount of fan emotion released in the SWTOR forums on this site. And, as an ordinary poster I say bring it on bitches. I want to see the nerve wracking trauma, personal grudge matches. death threats, actual paid forum trolls, all the whining can't we all just get along vs screw you its my game losers,  and especially all the negative ninny vs positive penny posting angst. You know why right?

     

    Its a game forum. Even the posts need to be entertaining. It sure is better that sitting around gossiping over thin and banal developer quotes that have no context yet. :)

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