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Housing system is REALLY bad, needs to change

2

Comments

  • muchavezmuchavez asdf, VAPosts: 200Member

    Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

    Xsyon

    Wurm

    Darkfall

    archaege

    the repopulation

     

    all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

     

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by muchavez

    Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

    Xsyon

    Wurm

    Darkfall

    archaege

    the repopulation

     

    all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

     

    And look at those games and the houses you can make in those games.  Do you think they compare to the housing in Black Desert from an artistic and visual perspective?

     

    I don't think non-instanced housing has to be done Black Desert's way.   However, I also think that every other game doesn't come close to Black Desert in terms of the detail and types of houses players can own.

     

    Im sure the developers realised early on that in order to maintain the artistic integrity of their gameworld, it would be very difficult for them to also allow players the ability to place and build their own houses in that same space.  In fact, the developers have mentioned explicitly that the reason they did not adopt a system like Archeage (where players can build houses) is because they didn't want to compromise on the environments or have players ruins them.

     

    Name one game where you can achieve Black Desert's level of detail with a player-created housing system.  The reason you cannot name one is because no developer (and certainly not an indie startup like Pearl Abyss) is capable of doing it yet.  I think we will have to wait a while before we can expect this.

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon

    Only the richest will own a house. You got a problem with that? :)

  • AsboAsbo ManchesterPosts: 796Member Uncommon

    Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

    If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

    Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

     

    Bandit.

    Asbo

  • Kuro1nKuro1n GothenburgPosts: 771Member
    Originally posted by muchavez

    Not sure why several people in this thread still think un-instanced housing has to be done black desert's way.

    Xsyon

    Wurm

    Darkfall

    archaege

    the repopulation

     

    all of the above games have un-instanced housing that use some form of upkeep rather than putting up your house for sale after x amount of time no matter what you do.

     

    Um... in darkfall you cant have houses anywhere. They are some spots and when they are taken the prices for houses are skyhigh. GG much.

    ArcheAge may have a funny system but it looks like shit with houses and decoration all over the place.

  • nikobellicnikobellic bangkokPosts: 10Member
    isn't it funny how much discussion goes about a "housing system" that the devs said it will simply not exist.. 1,000 players will fight over a dozen houses - end of storry. the rest will be backpacking and sleeping in tents... hahaha
  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member

    "We plan to provide limited quantities of houses, approximately a few thousand houses.

     

    Moreover, there will be inns and hotels in each village or city where users without houses can experience the function of normal houses to a certain degree."

  • blutigfaustblutigfaust Granite City, ILPosts: 98Member Common

    I've seen some pretty awesome homesteads in Xsyon, where they have terrain alteration as well. Houses are built from individual parts, like walls, roofs, floors etc. but you cant really decorate them, which is a bummer.

     

    This Black Desert way sounds terrible to me, and yes I think housing is important. Guess this is just one more game I may pass on waiting for Divergence to let me in alpha, beta, or whatever. I'm starting to get more selective in the games I play, as not to encourage Developers to make trash to feed us, for their income.

    The "bid" system implies the auction will have an ending time, which sounds like every other auction in every other game, where people will wait until the last min, then bid some extreme amount until it turns into the haves and have nots..guess we now know where the Devs plan to get their money from.

    Current games playing: Archeage
    Games being watched: Repopulation, and Divergence
    Favorite played games: SWG, RomaVictor, and Xsyon

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    While I do not like that version of housing, at least the game has housing.  IMO it is one of those little features that give so much longevity to an MMO that to refuse to design it is a travesty to the genre.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NightBandit

    Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

    If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

    Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

     

    Bandit.

     Your opinion is wrong.  Point blank wrong.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,044Member Uncommon
    Now there's a mature post lol. It's his opinion. Doesn't mean it's wrong.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muchavez

    So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.

    I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

    Win the bid... 3 months is a long time in mmoworld. Win the bid twice, and you will have had the house for 9 months! I don't have a problem with this system. There needs to be away of taking care of vacant houses, and limited space.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by NightBandit

    Not sure what all the fuss is about housing as I personally think it ruins MMO's as it makes people stay in one area when in fact it would be better having folk on the move all the time and gets people working together in groups if you on the move. Housing is just ego stuff showing off your assets. To me housing is just a gimmick and a waste of space and resources.

    If you going to have housing the allow people to put houses where they want anywhere on the map and then defend the plot or loose it. What this will do is get people building houses together and protecting them as a team. The further adrift you build your house on the frontier the more chance you should have of loosing it for many reasons. That is how housing should be done and if you leave the game for any reason then your house should fall apart over a period of six months or so unless it gets raided and burnt to the ground. Or you could have NPC's take it over and use it as a base until they are killed or forced to move on.

    Most other housing I've seen in games is just fluff and I feel developers are missing a trick here personally. When developers start to think outside the box then we can expect to see some decent innovation.

     

    Bandit.

     Your opinion is wrong.  Point blank wrong.

    uuh, what's wrong with it? I agree that the housing we've seen recently is pretty blah, even a waste of resources. His idea of having to defend, which builds communities is pretty sound to. Ofcourse there needs to be more particulars, but yeah.

     

    Why do you feel he's wrong?

  • KirexyKirexy SkaraPosts: 21Member

    I must answer this

     

    I understand some of you feel you will not have your house permanently and so, but having an option to keep it forever with no risk of competitors taking it, would have catastrophalical effects in the end. Like many of you have said, in case people can claim houses permanently, it will be those players who play the game early who gets the houses. All new players will find that these houses are already occupied and you will never get one of those.

    That being said, permanent housing disattracts new players as it gives them litterally no chance to get ownership of a house. And there is a difference between ArcheAge housing and many other housing systems as you can build houses yourself, in BD, there is about 2000-3000 houses for 10000 players in each server. There simply isn't enough room for anyone to be able to claim a house permanently. If the houses would be able to be kept permanently, I'm sure fewer than 500 houses would be put on sale when time comes and man, those houses would be expensive.

    This means, that not only do they need to clear up houses of players who stopped playing the game, they also need to make sure everybody gets a chance enjoying the cake. I know it sucks somebody might take something away from you, but doesn't it suck even more for the players who cannot even get a little little small taste of the cake? They want cake too, you know.

    But as you say, there is one big issue, people grouping together just to get that specific house. Well, I must explain something here. Firstly, now when MMOs are in a such a broad market category, it can't really satisfy everyone. Some people wants to play online games but solo, some people really want to group up to do things, some people prefer to do things only in small groups etc.

    Black Desert is going to resemble around Guilds, its the guilds who has the major powers in the games and it will be the guilds who control the market. Pearlabyss' vision is that having the housing bid system will make guilds start fighting over the strategic positions of houses and bidding at the right houses will be a strategic important part of this.

    Besides, I bet many of us here wont even afford a personal house in BDO as it will really be a Luxury. If there are 3000 houses for 10k players, many of these houses will be set for Guilds. This means even fewer houses for the players. Perhaps, even getting your guild to own a house will be a big accomplishment.

    Thus, housing of the game seem to be a type of end-game content. Perhaps you could share a house with your friends and then it will be easier to afford the house renting. Probably, there will be very few peopel who live Alone in their house. If everybody shared one house with 2-3 other people, that would make it enough for everybody on the server to have one house.

    But not everybody will need a house, not everybody will bid for a house, so if just people will see this possibility, you will be able to share houses with others, this problem will become much lower.

    I mustn't be the only one here to play MMORPGs for the social factors. Surely, many of you here have met one or two new friends at an online game and perhaps you have some so called "RL" friends playing that game too. Wouldn't it  feel awesome to say "this is our house" too rather than simply "my home"? It really brings some meaning to be social in the game.

    Now, this basically means that 3000 houses actually isn't so few as it sounds. If people would just see the possibility of sharing your house with a "room-mate" the houses will probably not be put up to extreme prices, assuming they are regularly put on auction. The issues would remain if people had permanent ownership of houses (I explained the issues above). If you are smart, and want to live at the same place for a long time, you do not purchase the house in the most populous part of the game. You don't purchase the best-looking house everybody wants because there will be more people willing to bid for that house later. If you're smart, you bid for a house that isn't particularly special, but simply a normal house. If there are 10k people on one server, not all of them will even bid for the houses. And if people share houses together, there will be a big chance you will keep your house.

    Just think strategically.

    And besides, 3 months is a REALLY long time, I swear many of you switch your MMORPGs in 3 months. This is a quarter of a year and 3 World of Warcraft subcriptions. 3 Months is a lot of time for you to settle down in your home. And when you think about it, in the real world it is 1 month.

    So, to end with, probably, it wont be as hard as you think to keep your house if you just work together with someone else and pick a house that isn't central to the game. After all, housing is said to be viewed as a luxury and not everybody will even have a house. Complete, personal houses will be very rare, probably. But it may be very possible to live with another person or group of people. And this is probably what is going to happen. I think it sounds fun, actually.... to work together as a group, I mean.

    Because this issue really bases itself under the question if you are ready to play an MMORPG as an actual Mutiple Player game, or if you want to play it as a solo game. Lately, many MMORPGs are designed to be played as solo-games but online. Black Deserts seems to alter the game to be played with groups of people. Whether you like it or not, this is probably what should define the MMORPG genre, multiple player cooperation. If you would like to survive completely alone in Black Deserts, it is going to be really hard, you need the contacts just like in the real world.

    After all, MMORPGs are meant to be played together with others, not together alone.

  • blutigfaustblutigfaust Granite City, ILPosts: 98Member Common

      I'm sorry, I don't buy this nonsense about limiting houses for people. I don't know of anyone in SWG that was denied the opportunity to build one...or even several if they could afford it. How long ago did SWG hit the market? If they could do it back then, with the improvements in technology since then, I'm sure it can be done today, only better. Stop making excuses for companies that want to shovel their game into our sandbox experience.

      Xsyon has a way to remove abandoned tribal areas, which have houses as well as other items in them. So saying the world would be full and none could ever be removed is just wrong.

     

     So, buy it if you want, but I say it's nonsense.

    Current games playing: Archeage
    Games being watched: Repopulation, and Divergence
    Favorite played games: SWG, RomaVictor, and Xsyon

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by alyosha17
    Originally posted by BatCakez Guess you'll be moving around a lot, eh? I know what you mean though, it's good to come 'home' to your little piece of privilege and privacy after a long day of adventuring. That's something I loved about UO and EQ2. You cannot grow attached to it if you aren't there very long. EQ2 had renting, and you could still stay in it. Just poor implementation of the housing system, IMHO. It indicates to me that they don't really know how to do it right.
    But what do you think the alternative is? 

    <snip> 




    Just have people pay rent every three months. That's the kind of solution you'd get if the developers wanted people to have housing and keep it.

    Though, it doesn't sound like they really want people to have houses. I'm not sure why they are there if they don't really want people to keep them. It couldn't possibly be some way to make money off the game, and force players to keep paying for something and then pay more and more for something through a bidding system. That's just crazy talk.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SanHorSanHor ZagrebPosts: 336Member Common
    I can see this sistem work for premade luxury villas that could be used as guildhalls but common folks should be able to build their own homes and pay rent to keep them.
  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by alyosha17

    Originally posted by BatCakez Guess you'll be moving around a lot, eh? I know what you mean though, it's good to come 'home' to your little piece of privilege and privacy after a long day of adventuring. That's something I loved about UO and EQ2. You cannot grow attached to it if you aren't there very long. EQ2 had renting, and you could still stay in it. Just poor implementation of the housing system, IMHO. It indicates to me that they don't really know how to do it right.
    But what do you think the alternative is? 

     

     

     



    Just have people pay rent every three months. That's the kind of solution you'd get if the developers wanted people to have housing and keep it.

    Though, it doesn't sound like they really want people to have houses. I'm not sure why they are there if they don't really want people to keep them. It couldn't possibly be some way to make money off the game, and force players to keep paying for something and then pay more and more for something through a bidding system. That's just crazy talk.

     

    I explained why renting would be bad for new players who didn't snap up all the good houses on release.  In a world where (on release) there will not be enough houses for everyone, it is only fair for there to be a mandatory expiry date for lease.

  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Maybe we should just wait and see how it actually plays out. It wouldn't be my preferred way of doing it, but it's gonna depend on the overall atmosphere of the game.
  • TicklepinkTicklepink Ferrum, VAPosts: 119Member
    In EQ2 housing was great..different sectors of the city had different price ranges and housing was instanced. 300 ppl could live at one spot (or more) and there was weekly rent.. The really great thing that I LOVED about that housing system was they combined it with turning your home into a store front.(No sitting on an invisible chair while waving your hand in the town marketplace) You would get the opportunity to see what people had collected and how they had decorated their homes by visiting their store/home. Hopefully it will be something like this.

    image
  • charlizdcharlizd sydneyPosts: 922Member

    Yeah to me it sounds like a cash grab option, some of these korean games actually have gold selling places work for them, they actually advertise it in game and not by the usual asdwerzxc spamming the chat channels, they have system messages  pointing ppl to there gold selling site. So this could very well be just another way to make money out of ppl, any way i thought this was going to be a sandbox game so if it was there should not be restrictions on how long you can own your house, if you purchase a house then it should be yours, but to me it also sounds more like renting rather than ownership.

    Either way i can see it being an absolute pointless aspect of the game if it just keeps getting recycled i mean give the 12 months of being live and no one will give 2 fucks about grinding gold just to rent a house for 3 months lol unless it gives some special bonuses for owning it.

    image

  • RewhymoRewhymo otttawa, ONPosts: 53Member

    star wars galaxies did this best. Players cities where you can essentially build where ever you wanted and stay there so long as  you payed up keep. if you didnt pay your house was removed. And i never ever saw a planet run out of room. There was always room.

    Star wars galaxies hands down the greatest MMO to live. Destroyed by CU / NGE.

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Ticklepink
    In EQ2 housing was great..different sectors of the city had different price ranges and housing was instanced. 300 ppl could live at one spot (or more) and there was weekly rent.. The really great thing that I LOVED about that housing system was they combined it with turning your home into a store front.(No sitting on an invisible chair while waving your hand in the town marketplace) You would get the opportunity to see what people had collected and how they had decorated their homes by visiting their store/home. Hopefully it will be something like this.

    That sounds shit.  Why?  Because it was instanced.

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Rewhymo

    star wars galaxies did this best. Players cities where you can essentially build where ever you wanted and stay there so long as  you payed up keep. if you didnt pay your house was removed. And i never ever saw a planet run out of room. There was always room.

    Star wars galaxies hands down the greatest MMO to live. Destroyed by CU / NGE.

    Player cities which were totally functionally irrelevant?  If that's the best, then MMOs have a long way to go.  At least in Black Desert, the cities won't be ghost towns, since you will be owning a part of a real city with NPC and player life, not just some vacant outpost dressed up as a "city".

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Maybe they'll use it as a tool to generate RMT which in that case most logical players wont be interested in anyways.
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