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Rift: Hartsman Returns to Trion as CEO

2

Comments

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by ste2000

    I never understood why Trion moved away from MMORPGs

    Defiance and End of Nation bombed spectacularly, I didn't have any doubt about it

    So with Hartsman is back to the MMORPGs roots then...................... good.

     

    Make sure Archeage is a winner.............and no swimwear and cars pls.

    the problem there is that they don't own the game. and those things you hate so much are quite common with asian games and in particular Korean games. check out the cash shops in a lot of Korean games and you will find similar items. so it is quite unlikely you will get your wish.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • gatherisgatheris Charlotte, MIPosts: 995Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by steelwind

    Awesome news!

    Now here's to hoping he can get some momentum behind AA and get it released!

    no kidding

    like how about any information at all

    at least some vague timeline even

    image

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,207Member Uncommon

    Guess the "highly successful" Defiance isn't even profitable enough to carry it's own studio.

    At least they have a new excuse to even further delay the DLCs -yes, those which people already paid for month ago.

    image
  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by Volgore

    Guess the "highly successful" Defiance isn't even profitable enough to carry it's own studio.

    At least they have a new excuse to even further delay the DLCs -yes, those which people already paid for month ago.

    ya its in rough shape, imo.

     

    its funny but folks told them the same thing they told them at the launch of Rift: you cannot base a game on just one or two activities (rifts/arkfalls) and expect folks to stick around for it. they could have done a really cool and contextual crafting system based around vehicles and guns. made scavenging and looting the equivalent of harvesting and gone from there.

     

    those two things coupled with an auction house might have kept me around for a bit longer.

     

    but it was b2p and i got it on sale (sadly not he steam sale) so i do feel i got my money's worth. i just don't know if they got their's.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member

    I'd say it's good news.  I thought Trion was the best MMO company when Rift first came out.  They pulled off a good WoW clone that added in some new content options (all the planar content) and they provided enough progression to keep people occupied.  They were putting out an onslaught of content and new features that IMO should've embarrassed every other company in the genre, especially bliz since bliz makes ungodly bank on WoW and gives customers next to nothing other than the right to login for their sub buck AND charges microtransactions for a lot of services (that were free in Rift when it was sub-based) on top of the sub.

     

    IMO Rift is one of the better MMORPGs right now, even with SL being a less than stellar xpac (kinda bland content and assuming and balancing around the idea that ALL players pounded endgame and are running around in full epics might not have been the best approach - newer players hitting SL content in 1-50 leveling gear get pimpslapped into a new reality).

     

    Mechanically I think Rift is better than WoW.  Rift pretty much has everything WoW has gameplay wise along with a slicker character/talent/skill system and more content variety.  I'm not quite sure what it is that Rift lacks.  The fact that all races are basically human is something.  The leveling content is a bit more generic and less interesting and there's no real outdoor "elite" content to speak of.  Rift has deep enough lore and is somewhat fantasy but lacks a lot of the typical fantasy mobs and as much as people claim to be sick of that, I think that lack of familiarity and bond is an issue.  Rift has a somewhat bleak feel to it overall.  It has superior graphics to WoW but the somewhat more realistic at times environments often end up feeling more bland and generic.  The repetitive things that NPCs say kind of make you wanna punch a baby but you can say that about most RPG NPCs.

     

    Dunno.  Be interesting to see what direction changes, if any, Rift takes along with Trion in general.  I doubt much changes for Rift because I think Rift has one of the better cash shop and F2P implimentations in the whole sea of F2P dookie, even if REX is company facilitated cheating, and I suspect Trion is doing nicely from it all.  You don't wanna rock the cash boat.

     

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • BlackJack_ShellackBlackJack_Shellack Ventura, CAPosts: 3Member
    sorry for the folks at the San Diego office
  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Garbrac
    People are still playing it, that makes it successful.  

    People are still playing Mortal Online also, but I can't imagine anyone other than the most die-hard of fans calling it successful.  I'm not saying that Rift isn't successful, I'm just saying that because people play it doesn't make it a success.  

  • AysonoAysono Toronto, ONPosts: 164Member
    Originally posted by marz.at.play
    Didn't he leave because RIFT was going F2P and he said he'd never be a part of it...or was that someone else at Trion? Memory is shady.

    He said something like "it would be a big negative for RIFT to go free-to-play" then came the news shortly he was no longer with Trion.

     

    But in an interview with Forbes earlier this year he changed his tone and said: "free-to-play models has really opened up the door for a new audience"

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/03/05/scott-hartsman-talks-the-future-of-mmorpgs/

  • AlomarAlomar Middle Earth, NJPosts: 446Member Uncommon
    Trion is my last hope when it comes to mmo developers, wish them the best.

    Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marz.at.play
    Didn't he leave because RIFT was going F2P and he said he'd never be a part of it...or was that someone else at Trion? Memory is shady.

    i think the f2p conversion was the reason of him leaving but i dont remember anyone at Trion ever publicly announcing "i want no part in f2p so im out".

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aysono
    Originally posted by marz.at.play
    Didn't he leave because RIFT was going F2P and he said he'd never be a part of it...or was that someone else at Trion? Memory is shady.

    He said something like "it would be a big negative for RIFT to go free-to-play" then came the news shortly he was no longer with Trion.

    But in an interview with Forbes earlier this year he changed his tone and said: "free-to-play models has really opened up the door for a new audience"

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/03/05/scott-hartsman-talks-the-future-of-mmorpgs/

    I've read his blog for a while and watch interviews he does.  I get the impression he's become more open as well. I'm curious why, but I doubt we'll ever get the skinny on that.

  • AtrocitusAtrocitus Oa, CAPosts: 77Member Uncommon
    Welcome back Scott!  This a good thing...
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by kevjards
    Originally posted by achesoma
    "...highly successful game Rift."

    That's a bold statement.

    how do you come to the conclusion its not successful..its made a fortune.and just because it doesn't have WOW numbers does that mean its a fail..don't think so.rift is an enjoyable game to a point although its more of the same.has far as I know it made its money back in the first 2 months..from what I heard..development was about 40 million or just around that.on release and after it sold about 2 million copies so that's its money back and profit.

    There is a difference between successful and highly successful.

    Rift without question had short term success.  Its first month was highly successful.  beyond that was note remotely 'highly successful' in any reasonable sense of the word.

    However, the game did manage to launch a real expansion, which is something many of its peers didnt get to do.  However, the f2p wasnt a 'keeping up with the times' thing, it was a 'well, the expansion didn't work' thing.

    The game turns a profit though im sure.

    But then, so does SWTOR which has a greater population.

    I would call it a minor success, only because it didnt have big expectations.  if it didnt sell so well the first couple months and have such poor retention i think it would be viewed more favorably from a success standpoint (again, more people play SWTOR and its a huge disappointment-because of the expectations)

  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member

    One day they may be able to get the combat animations down pat for Rift.  Till then I'll not give the game it's 7th shot. (LOL)

     

    Hoping they can remove most of the Eastern influences from ArcheAge and get it to looking like an European gritty world and not some manga/anime world the game looks like in Korea.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Voqar

     

     Mechanically I think Rift is better than WoW.  Rift pretty much has everything WoW has gameplay wise along with a slicker character/talent/skill system and more content variety.  I'm not quite sure what it is that Rift lacks.  The fact that all races are basically human is something.  The leveling content is a bit more generic and less interesting and there's no real outdoor "elite" content to speak of.  Rift has deep enough lore and is somewhat fantasy but lacks a lot of the typical fantasy mobs and as much as people claim to be sick of that, I think that lack of familiarity and bond is an issue.  Rift has a somewhat bleak feel to it overall.  It has superior graphics to WoW but the somewhat more realistic at times environments often end up feeling more bland and generic.  The repetitive things that NPCs say kind of make you wanna punch a baby but you can say that about most RPG NPCs.

     

     

    The thing you arent quite sure what rift lacks is soul.

    You said it yourself-generic, boring races.  generic content.  

    Also:  the combat is not as good as WoW.  WoW is smoother.  There is also a trade off for the soul system: the WoW classes have more depth to them than any particular Rift spec.  WoW's PvP is much better.

    And now the big thing that Rift had over WoW, faster content additions, has reversed itself.  Rift is slow to update and WoW has picked up its pace a little..

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Voqar

     

     Mechanically I think Rift is better than WoW.  Rift pretty much has everything WoW has gameplay wise along with a slicker character/talent/skill system and more content variety.  I'm not quite sure what it is that Rift lacks.  The fact that all races are basically human is something.  The leveling content is a bit more generic and less interesting and there's no real outdoor "elite" content to speak of.  Rift has deep enough lore and is somewhat fantasy but lacks a lot of the typical fantasy mobs and as much as people claim to be sick of that, I think that lack of familiarity and bond is an issue.  Rift has a somewhat bleak feel to it overall.  It has superior graphics to WoW but the somewhat more realistic at times environments often end up feeling more bland and generic.  The repetitive things that NPCs say kind of make you wanna punch a baby but you can say that about most RPG NPCs.

    The thing you arent quite sure what rift lacks is soul.

    You said it yourself-generic, boring races.  generic content.  

    Also:  the combat is not as good as WoW.  WoW is smoother.  There is also a trade off for the soul system: the WoW classes have more depth to them than any particular Rift spec.  WoW's PvP is much better.

    And now the big thing that Rift had over WoW, faster content additions, has reversed itself.  Rift is slow to update and WoW has picked up its pace a little..

    I don't really agree.  I like Telara a lot more than Azeroth.  I find the soul system to have a lot more depth than WoW's build system too.  I just think Rift is a better game all around.  If I didn't I wouldn't still be playing it.

  • SinsaiSinsai Reno, NVPosts: 236Member Uncommon

    Good to hear

     

    image

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    Here is an interesting interview with Hartsman back in May.  It explains a lot.  Here is a link: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/22/hartsman-the-traditional-aaa-style-of-development-and-distribu/

    You've said before that F2P wasn't a good match for RIFT because the game wasn't designed with it in mind. How much work is involved in retrofitting a game like RIFT for a totally new business model?

    A lot of work -- far more than I imagine most people realize. If you can come up with a model that fits your audience, put a sufficiently sized team on it for enough time, and implement it very well, it absolutely can work. Most companies aren't in that position, however.

    My commentary back then was more about F2P conversions that alienate existing customers and end up being counterproductive to the long term health of a service -- the ones where content or level gates get added as quickly as possible, advancement rates get slowed down, a store gets added, and developers hope enough of their problems get solved in the precious little time they have to do the job.

    Over the last year, we've also seen a lot wider acceptance of free-with-genuine-value-add models in core gaming, where players are paying for enjoyment or as a way to say thank you, not paying to remove pain, like the original free models were. Model, game, and audience have to be a good fit. The customer has to feel he is getting a genuine value for his dollar, no matter the model. That all has to work together. That's the important part.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal st clair shores, MIPosts: 809Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Garbrac
    People are still playing it, that makes it successful.  

    People are still playing Mortal Online also, but I can't imagine anyone other than the most die-hard of fans calling it successful.  I'm not saying that Rift isn't successful, I'm just saying that because people play it doesn't make it a success.  

    Your joking right, have you ever ran a business ever? well I have and I make money, I don't lose, so guess what its successful and have a great base as well, i'm I rich, no, does that mean I failed no because I make a profit and a decent one to, just like Rift, Mortal online does as well they don't have the high costs that AAA's do, so guess what makng Indie games cost less way less, so they don't need to make as much, nor do they care... Its about the love  of what they are doing, so please before you try and troll think next time , because that was a fail..

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal st clair shores, MIPosts: 809Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darkcrystal
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Garbrac
    People are still playing it, that makes it successful.  

    People are still playing Mortal Online also, but I can't imagine anyone other than the most die-hard of fans calling it successful.  I'm not saying that Rift isn't successful, I'm just saying that because people play it doesn't make it a success.  

    Your joking right, have you ever ran a business ever? well I have and I make money, I don't lose, so guess what its successful and have a great base as well, i'm I rich, no, does that mean I failed no because I make a profit and a decent one to, just like Rift, Mortal online does as well they don't have the high costs that AAA's do, so guess what makng Indie games cost less way less, so they don't need to make as much, nor do they care... Its about the love  of what they are doing, so please before you try and troll think next time , because that was a fail..

     

    By the way I meant Mortal online as the Indie not Rift.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal st clair shores, MIPosts: 809Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volgore

    Guess the "highly successful" Defiance isn't even profitable enough to carry it's own studio.

    At least they have a new excuse to even further delay the DLCs -yes, those which people already paid for month ago.

     

    They do this alot in this business no need for the office , so why have it?? This is common in gaming world, it cut costs...

  • Pin_CushionPin_Cushion charleston, SCPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by SirFubar

    ...About EvE, you really think everyone pay for their sub in EvE? You know you can get your sub for free by buying PLEX from other players? Again, you're still wrong about EvE.

    So yeah, again another clueless guy with false information. 

     

    Every PLEX is purchased by someone for $15 (give or take, considering occasional discounts).

    That means every active account nets CCP $15/month, no matter who's paying it.  Some people pay $30/month because they need credits.  Some people pay $0/month because they can farm credits in-game easily.  It doesn't change the fact that CCP is making around $7m per month in revenue on a 10-year old game.  The true numbers are likely less, as they'll have to give their Chinese publisher a cut of the top-line for their China arm.  Still, it's a boatload of cash.

    I'd call that a wildly successful MMO.

  • ThraxsisThraxsis Bells, TNPosts: 1Member
    Yeah what he said :)
  • sbrite10sbrite10 Vancouver, WAPosts: 71Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by Garbrac
    People are still playing it, that makes it successful.  

    False

     

    People would still be playing SWG, but it was closed because of a conflict of interest and a lack of money coming in.

     

    Money = Success to the business world. Rift is barely making any money, so they're not really successful.

     

    EvE on the other hand, is making hand over fist with about 500,000 subscribers paying $15/month. So yea.....

    So you have intimate knowledge of Rift Financials? I think not. The game is doing well. Tons of people playing when I'm logged in. Cant see that anything but successful. Its no different than SWTOR which is making money now that its F2P.

  • RolleZRolleZ FalkenbergPosts: 37Member Uncommon
    Trion might want to hire some skilled coders for once.... Rift runs like a dog since beta onward.
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