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An open statement to MMO Inc. Why don't you make MMOs for MMO players again?

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Comments

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    Don't hate the game... hate the players....

     

    Players have proven time and time again that what they really want is WOW... Now every AAA producer is trying to steal the formula to the secret sauce but can never quite get it right...

     

    Back in the day when MMO's were niche... having a sub/player base of 250,000 was a HUGE monumental success... iirc games like EQ (back int he day piqued at 500-600k...

     

    You want AAA developers to "make the game for you  (the MMO fan)" but no one(at least in the super corporate "gaming business world" will take that risk... SoE (love'm or hate'm) is really the first to be taking such a risk and people are shitting all over them... While I am still on the fence and want to see more I am not going to the shed to get the pitchforks and torches out.

     

    Gamers have to really take a long hard look at themselves and not put so much EXPECTATION on entities they have (for the most part) zero influence on and just except it the way it is... People don't look at Picaso's work and say he should have used more purple... no they just marvel at it's brilliance and if there are those who happen to like Matisse better they aren't going all over forums and museums bashing Picasso and spreading hate... Gamers are all fkn spoiled over entitled brats they feel the need to bitch about anything pertaining to their so called passion... Oh and GOD FORBID you have to pay for it...

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by xeniar

    How can people know that they will not like something (old MMORPG principels) when they have never tried it. What im seeing is a very large portion of the pre-wow players wanting just that. a tiny fraction is oke with the crap being made right now. And all those post-wow players have never experienced it. You cannot say that they will not like it.

    That's just a bald assertion that people will like it, but the fact remains, no significant number of people are telling developers that they want to play that kind of game or developers would be making that kind of game.  Why should developers take a chance with millions of dollars and years of development time on a concept that nobody is asking for, just on your say-so that they might possibly like it?

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • KaledrenKaledren , NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by xeniar

    How can people know that they will not like something (old MMORPG principels) when they have never tried it. What im seeing is a very large portion of the pre-wow players wanting just that. a tiny fraction is oke with the crap being made right now. And all those post-wow players have never experienced it. You cannot say that they will not like it.

    That's just a bald assertion that people will like it, but the fact remains, no significant number of people are telling developers that they want to play that kind of game or developers would be making that kind of game.  Why should developers take a chance with millions of dollars and years of development time on a concept that nobody is asking for, just on your say-so that they might possibly like it?

    I see many people asking for it constantly on this site as well as others, and backing Indie developer's working on such games. EQ Next has the potential as well.

    One other proble is people like you and several others that need not be named because they are obvious and known that fight tooth and nail to drowned out anyone who doesn't want instanced, soloable to cap, rewards every 3 steps, map- GPS driven, linear lobby games with your same tired babble and "know it all about the "market" attitudes.

    I personally think you guys work for gaming companies and are in place to insure to keep the lemmings in line with your way of thinking here and on other sites. Would explain the post counts and constant monitoring and posting in any "old school" type of threads with anti-talk.

    Why can't you guys just butt out of threads you don't care for and let those who want to discuss it free to do so? Is it that hard?

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kaledren

    Why can't you guys just butt out of threads you don't care for and let those who want to discuss it free to do so? Is it that hard?

    I keep asking the mods for a private topic where I can discuss things only with people who completely agree with me.

    They refused to give me General in The Pub, though. Go figure.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • KaledrenKaledren , NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Kaledren

    Why can't you guys just butt out of threads you don't care for and let those who want to discuss it free to do so? Is it that hard?

    I keep asking the mods for a private topic where I can discuss things only with people who completely agree with me.

    They refused to give me General in The Pub, though. Go figure.

    Shocking you commented in such a way. /sarcasm off.

     

    Anyways...it's fairly easy to avoid topics you don't care for. I don't go into every WoW thread making comments, nor any other modern MMORPG praising thread to make blanket statements and semi-trolling statements. That can be a two way road. It's not that tough. Well...I guess for you guys it is.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kaledren
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Kaledren

    Why can't you guys just butt out of threads you don't care for and let those who want to discuss it free to do so? Is it that hard?

    I keep asking the mods for a private topic where I can discuss things only with people who completely agree with me.

    They refused to give me General in The Pub, though. Go figure.

    Shocking you commented in such a way. /sarcasm off.

     

    Anyways...it's fairly easy to avoid topics you don't care for. I don't go into every WoW thread making comments, nor any other modern MMORPG praising thread to make blanket statements and semi-trolling statements. That can be a two way road. It's not that tough. Well...I guess for you guys it is.

    Shocking that you'd be sarcastic /sarcasm off.

    It's fairly easy to avoid people you don't like on your forums. You could, perhaps, use an official private forum of the company in question?

    This forum is a public forum. Thus, you sometimes have to deal with the public.

    Further, it's a General section of a public forum, not restricted to "Only fans of GameX allowed." The op chose to put it here.

    If you really don't like dealing with any opinion that might be contrary. I'd suggest you avoid forums altogether. But most certainly this one, lots of people with lots of very different ideas. You might even learn something once in a while.

    Alternatively, take advantage of the block feature. Block everyone who doesn't worship your particular poison, and there you go. Insular, closed, and protected from blasphemous thoughts.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member
    Originally posted by Tierless

    I'm not talking about smaller companies, I'm talking about the big "AAA" type companies.

    I know I know, were only like 500k and were a niche so why bother making a game for us true MMO fans? Especially considering we love MMOs so we try every new MMO regardless right? So instead of making MMOs for us you make MMOs that are trying to get players from others popular games. It makes sense but you forget one thing. We are kinda like the mega nerdy niche. We are loyal as hell and we are practically intravenously hooked up to our PCs. If you have our backs and if you appeal to us we do things for you and long loooong after the non fans abandon your MMO we will do everything we can to keep it live and well. I'm not asking you to cater only to us, but it would be nice if you could start your MMO and make it fairly functional for us first, THEN add in features to draw in players that don't support your games.

    I know I'm old school but I've always believed if you make a great product that impresses people that are interested in that type of product then branch out form their it's a better and easier battle but who am I? I'm just some guy with a PC and an internet connection. I'm not even rich so I'm probably not worth listening to anyway. /shrug thanks for reading :)

    thanks,

    Tierless

     *we're

     

    English isn't my native language but even I can see that this must be wrong.

    Regardless, I agree with your post.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by xeniar

    How can people know that they will not like something (old MMORPG principels) when they have never tried it. What im seeing is a very large portion of the pre-wow players wanting just that. a tiny fraction is oke with the crap being made right now. And all those post-wow players have never experienced it. You cannot say that they will not like it.

    That's just a bald assertion that people will like it, but the fact remains, no significant number of people are telling developers that they want to play that kind of game or developers would be making that kind of game.  Why should developers take a chance with millions of dollars and years of development time on a concept that nobody is asking for, just on your say-so that they might possibly like it?

    Had to be done.

    image
  • KaledrenKaledren , NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Kaledren
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Kaledren

    Why can't you guys just butt out of threads you don't care for and let those who want to discuss it free to do so? Is it that hard?

    I keep asking the mods for a private topic where I can discuss things only with people who completely agree with me.

    They refused to give me General in The Pub, though. Go figure.

    Shocking you commented in such a way. /sarcasm off.

     

    Anyways...it's fairly easy to avoid topics you don't care for. I don't go into every WoW thread making comments, nor any other modern MMORPG praising thread to make blanket statements and semi-trolling statements. That can be a two way road. It's not that tough. Well...I guess for you guys it is.

    Shocking that you'd be sarcastic /sarcasm off.

    It's fairly easy to avoid people you don't like on your forums. You could, perhaps, use an official private forum of the company in question?

    This forum is a public forum. Thus, you sometimes have to deal with the public.

    Further, it's a General section of a public forum, not restricted to "Only fans of GameX allowed." The op chose to put it here.

    If you really don't like dealing with any opinion that might be contrary. I'd suggest you avoid forums altogether. But most certainly this one, lots of people with lots of very different ideas. You might even learn something once in a while.

    Alternatively, take advantage of the block feature. Block everyone who doesn't worship your particular poison, and there you go. Insular, closed, and protected from blasphemous thoughts.

    Anyways..so the much shorter answer is people are A-holes. Especially on the internet where they are more likely to act out as jerks and unlikely to refrain from remarking in areas they care little about because they can't be punched in the face for it.

    No one has to "worship" what I say, or completely agree with my opinion that may be contrary. I simply stated that if people don't care about the content of a thread or don't agree with it, they should simply stay away from it.  Again...I do it and it isn't hard. But even in threads I care to enter the discussion of...there that same group is.

    But a certain group here...that I am willing to bet can be named by most here after being on the site for a mere week...make a constant habit of pushing some kind of "Make MMORPG's all Lobby games" agenda in any and every old school titled thread that pops up.  Work for gaming companies and pay this site to do as they please? Possibly.

    Last portion highlighted was simply unnecessary douchebaggery. I will use the block feature very soon ty....when I have the time to enter the names. But again...a certain group can seemingly say what they want without being warned or banned for instigating flames, etc and it boggles the mind. I've said less  and have been warned or banned for it before. Hell...will probably get a warning for this.

     

  • OfficialFlowOfficialFlow HelsinkiPosts: 111Member
    one of these posts again... why should i even bother and write something witty and smart?
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon

    I'm a MMORPG player. 95% of the games I play are MMOs. The last few non-MMO games I've played are Skyrim, Minecraft, and a bit older, the Assassin's Creed games and the Force Unleashed games. Everything else is a MMOs. Even the car racing games I sometimes play for a change are MMOs (Need for Speed World and Test Drive Unlimited 2). I actually have 12 different MMOs installed on my PC (the advantage of having two 1TB Velociraptors in Raid 0 config for games and data rather than a tiny SSD). And I'm definitely also "old school", I started in MUDs when many here didn't even know what a computer is, even less a modem or an Internet access.

    I have plenty of games to satisfy me as a MMO player, and I don't allow the OP to talk in my name. I think the MMO market has never been better and never offered such a wide variety of different games to choose from, and the future looks even brighter with more games going away from the "EQ/WoW clone" model and trying something different.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Tierless

    I'm not talking about smaller companies, I'm talking about the big "AAA" type companies.

    I know I know, were only like 500k and were a niche so why bother making a game for us true MMO fans? Especially considering we love MMOs so we try every new MMO regardless right? So instead of making MMOs for us you make MMOs that are trying to get players from others popular games. It makes sense but you forget one thing. We are kinda like the mega nerdy niche. We are loyal as hell and we are practically intravenously hooked up to our PCs. If you have our backs and if you appeal to us we do things for you and long loooong after the non fans abandon your MMO we will do everything we can to keep it live and well. I'm not asking you to cater only to us, but it would be nice if you could start your MMO and make it fairly functional for us first, THEN add in features to draw in players that don't support your games.

    I know I'm old school but I've always believed if you make a great product that impresses people that are interested in that type of product then branch out form their it's a better and easier battle but who am I? I'm just some guy with a PC and an internet connection. I'm not even rich so I'm probably not worth listening to anyway. /shrug thanks for reading :)

    thanks,

    Tierless

     Well OP the reason is two fold.  Primarily the games that were designed for that old school crowd are:

    1. Still playing those old School games, they'll never leave the games they enjoy for so long.   Ithink we all know people who continue to play original EQ or other.  I recently went back to Asheron's Call and the same 4-5 Huge Allegiances are still running strong with the same monarchs.  Another example is my Best Friend's dad who is in his 70's still plays Panzer General 3-4 hours every day.  This mentality leads to:
    2. Those games will never draw in the critical mass needed to fund the development of what you want.  Lets' face it, if EQ or AC or UO were released tomorrow with the same core features but with new graphics their player base would never top the original.  Majority of people wear rose tinted glasses because the truth is only a small segment of the MMO player base find those archaic things like Corpse runs, 30 min buffing sessions or forced grouping fun and enjoyable.
    Your best bet if you enjoy those old school games is to play those old school games.  Which is why I still play Asheron's Call.  If you crave a graphical upgrade then your best bet is to look for an indie company to make the games you crave.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Wighty

    Don't hate the game... hate the players....

     

    Players have proven time and time again that what they really want is WOW... Now every AAA producer is trying to steal the formula to the secret sauce but can never quite get it right...

     

    Back in the day when MMO's were niche... having a sub/player base of 250,000 was a HUGE monumental success... iirc games like EQ (back int he day piqued at 500-600k...

     

    You want AAA developers to "make the game for you  (the MMO fan)" but no one(at least in the super corporate "gaming business world" will take that risk... SoE (love'm or hate'm) is really the first to be taking such a risk and people are shitting all over them... While I am still on the fence and want to see more I am not going to the shed to get the pitchforks and torches out.

     

    Gamers have to really take a long hard look at themselves and not put so much EXPECTATION on entities they have (for the most part) zero influence on and just except it the way it is... People don't look at Picaso's work and say he should have used more purple... no they just marvel at it's brilliance and if there are those who happen to like Matisse better they aren't going all over forums and museums bashing Picasso and spreading hate... Gamers are all fkn spoiled over entitled brats they feel the need to bitch about anything pertaining to their so called passion... Oh and GOD FORBID you have to pay for it...

    Dear god you might be on to something here.  Game X comes out with all new original and innovative ideals and people claim it isn't like game Y, yet those same people will bash Game Z because it's too identical to Game Y.  It's a vicious cycle that hurts my brain.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • KazaraKazara merritt island, FLPosts: 1,075Member Uncommon
    Bottom line - There is a lot more money to be made in making cheaper, shallow F2P theme parks that cater to the casuals. It is also a lot less risky financially. Sadly, I think we will be seeing much more of the cash shop driven MMOs for quite some time. image

    image

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    I mostly agree with the OP, but I wonder what AAA MMOs he thinks will actually be coming out this year or the next?

    We need P2P for a AAA and we have only one P2P/B2P release this year so far (please update me if I am wrong) and it is now August. Unless we are going to get F2P AAA MMO's and F2P has yet to receive the funding needed to be AAA. I am not holding by breath that a handful of AAA MMOs are on the horizon.

    I am not even confident that we will get another P2P/B2P MMO out this year. And remember that means that next year there will be no great former P2P MMOs going F2P.

    There is a partial solution, stick with a good guild, you can at least ignore some of the crap modern MMOs have come up with if you do that.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Scot

     

    We need P2P for a AAA and we have only one P2P/B2P release this year so far (please update me if I am wrong) and it is now August. Unless we are going to get F2P AAA MMO's and F2P has yet to receive the funding needed to be AAA. I am not holding by breath that a handful of AAA MMOs are on the horizon.

    Well, may be there is no AAA "MMOs" .. but only because you are only limiting your thinking to traditional MMOs. There are plenty of AAA development that provides games close enough to MMO. Destiny and Division for example. They are AAA. They are most likely B2P. Some sites even call them AAA.

    Secondly many existing MMOs will add content. There is no lack of content to play.

     

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