It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Originally posted by thinlizzy Originally posted by Torgrim What you call misstake me and many other calls success. We all can't love the same thing but calling it a misstake is an opinion not a fact.
Everything posted here is opinion, even your opinion that my opinion is an opinion.
Having said that, the devs have indicated they are hoping for a game that holds players for 10+ years, not 6 months and thats all GW2 managed.
(F2P games that cant manage 1m+ players are not in a good space, P2P games only need abut 100k+ players to be in good shape)
Whilst EQN may hold people due to a great crafting system, more dynamic world and solid explorational environment.
I doubt they will get many people (obviously you) excited over limiting people to 8 skills at any one time (except my 4yo son)
Considering Anet isn't talking about expansions it seems to me GW2 got hold of more than 1 million players 12 months after realease.
Currently playing: GW2Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Piechunks People don't want to be challenged when playing games. They don't want want to make decisions for themselves. They don't want to reason. They just want something readily accessible without any kind of learning process involved. For that very reason Call of Duty has been very popular and for that very reason they are dumbing down MMORPG combat to accommodate the masses.
Didn't the original EverQuest have a limited skill bar?
Having all skills accessible all the time just means you don't have to make choices of what skills to take, what areas you going to be strong and which areas you will be weak and reliant on your party.
Limited decks and drafting cards to make decks are extremely popular systems.
24 keys in this game, much more entertaining to watch than GW2 that's for sure. I prefer games that make me try and pay attention, IE not GW2, and probably not Wildstar at this rate.
The difference between GW1 and GW2 is that all the skills on your bar were extremely important in GW1, In GW2 it's more 1,1,1,1,2. Also in GW1 you had much more freedom with your skills and weapon.
Anyways, I love spectacle pvp.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
By extremely popular in the MMO genre, you must mean GW2 and GW1. LoL is not a MMORPG.
If you're looking to maximize the number of choices you have to make you actually have to go N/2, where N is the maximum number of available skills from elementary combinatorics.
8 is nowhere near half of the available skills and even considering the possibility of 24+ skills at once implies more depth in actual combat, instead of leaving the depth for a one-time planning phase that is a very small part of actual gameplay.
Originally posted by Piechunks Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Extremely popular as in CCGs and board games (Dominion for example).
And in games with 80+ skills the game still devolves into a rotation of a few skills.
GW1 was a lot more tactical than multi-hotbar MMOs have ever been. All my characters in EQ1 / EQ2 have been dumbed down into supermacros. Currently playing my SK and Fury on EQ2, both have a single supermacro and about 5 situational skills. 99% of the time I am just spamming that supermacro.
I have no idea why anyone would think that is preferable to actually having a few meaningful skills that are tactical.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter Originally posted by Piechunks Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Only in a RIAD DPS situation.
Any game that "devolves into a rotation of a few skills." in solo play, small group play and PvP is quickly forgotten.
Warhammer...no "rotation of a few skills"
TERA...no "rotation of a few skills"
RIFT...no "rotation of a few skills"
AoC...no "rotation of a few skills"
even SWtOR...no "rotation of a few skills"
Is ONLY when you are doing a tank and spank RAID fight that "rotation of a few skills" ever becomes the situation
and EVEN then, in most of the good raiding games you will not be doing your job well if you just do a "rotation of a few skills"
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
Originally posted by thinlizzy Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter Originally posted by Piechunks Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Were you even playing the same games?
I didn't play WAR, but on TERA, Rift and SWTOR it most certainly was a rotation of a few skills. All of those games follow simple skill priorities, all of them were played using simple macros. Even in PvP, solo and small group play. Aside from 1-2 situational skills (usually crowd control or temp buffs) the combat was very very simple, and easily handled by a macro.
AoC made it harder by the way combat worked (following up with 1-3 based on the combo), but you still had skill priorities.
I'm happy to see EQN unstricken by the hotbar plague. It has been a serious pet peeve of mine.
Were you even playing the same games? I didn't play WAR, but on TERA, Rift and SWTOR it most certainly was a rotation of a few skills. All of those games follow simple skill priorities, all of them were played using simple macros. Even in PvP, solo and small group play. Aside from 1-2 situational skills (usually crowd control or temp buffs) the combat was very very simple, and easily handled by a macro. AoC made it harder by the way combat worked (following up with 1-3 based on the combo), but you still had skill priorities.
clearly you have not played TERA either or you would know there are NO macros in TERA
But back to a previous post I made... IF you can MACRO the game to a simple set of moves the game has failed.
In WoW you could macro your DPS for a RIAD and you would SUCK next to a player who knew what they were doing.
A decent ROTATION in RIFT (only useful in RIADs) would often have over 8 moves just in the DPS part of the rotation and would change based on movement and the state of the fight.
let me just throw this out there...
If you only have 8 avalable skills in a game that has ANY variation in skills (more than .. I hit you hard and I hit you harder)
then you are NOT going to have those situational skills that make the difference between a nub player and someone with skill.
Go watch an old video of drakedog WoW warlock pre 1.5 kicking ass with a skill set way biger than most could ever handle.
Now you should not HAVE to play like that, but the opportunity to play like that and work for that benefit is nice to have.
Movment, dodging blocking and the things found in action combat (like TERA) are nice, but they are NOT enough in an MMO
Originally posted by thinlizzy
That has been the effort of game developers since the inception of call of duty: removing that barrier entirely, so nobody ever feels inadequate.
Originally posted by Piechunks Originally posted by thinlizzy
The only way to make the inadequate feel adequate is by hindering the adequate.
The inadequate must strive, practice, and learn to be adequate.
Suck is the manner of ALL things.
We humans wish to rail against forces of nature and prove it wrong. We shall fail.
So... the rush to the bottom.
Which puts us back to the many posts before this one.
EQN is aimed at a different group of players.
They are after GW2 players and good luck to them.
I love some of the things they have done and what we are talking about here MAY NOT BE the way many of us think it is.
But if it is, this game will not be for me or anyone else I know over the age of 6
Yeah as others have stated I think it's a console issue. The problem I have with this is maybe a little off topic, but console players and pc players are not one and the same. Sure there is crossover but people chose their medium to experience games for various reasons, and trying to appeal to all could be a bad move.
Another thing to consider is the companies resources have to naturally be split up if it is being offered on console. And since we have two major consoles, XBone and Ps4, resources are not going to be fully utilized for pc. Console is horrible for talking to others unless you have a keyboard or use voice programs. As far as keyboard goes, having a keyboard and typing stuff on my coffee table would be really uncomfortable, and voice sucks for role play. I don't necessarily mind voice if it's just guildies, but general chat with voice will be an abuse fest due to all the morons out there.
Originally posted by Kyleran I'm not a fan of this design, but the decision has been made, likely to ensure good playability on consoles. I'll have to adapt assuming other elements of the game interest me.
I have to say that I agree with this. It was hinted at more than enough times at the SOE event that it could come to the Playstation 4. In any case it's being designed to be controller friendly. All we can do is hope that they get it right, and that it is still enjoyable while being a simplified user interface.
Thinking more on the topic I've yet to come to a solid conclusion of what my opinion is on the limited skills.
I don't know why we're all so mad at the limited weapon skills, me included. Thinking back on it while I was playing AoC and most other games for that matter you would only get a few primary attack skills. In this case there were 3-5 for my 2H as a Barbarian and then every few levels you'd just get an upgrade of those same skills. So technically I've just been spamming the same skills over and over for 3 years.
I think I had Maybe 15 skills in total that I used all the time and that isn't all that much compared to majority of hotbar mmos. All the skills felt useful, especially as I mostly did PVP but they were just as useful in Raid scenarios. I had to carefully time my buff activations with my burst opportunities, use stuns/kb to disable or interrupt the opposition while having anti cc of my own to avoid getting into those situations. I didn't feel overwhelmed by the number of skills and they were relatively easy to pull off quickly once properly bound. As useful as these skills were and after hearing the SOE team referencing Dota2 I thought maybe these skills didn't have to be on my skill bar.
Most of these buffs/anti cc were instant casts and then SOE also mentions that gear will play a major role in skills etc. This makes me think they might have additional activated abilities on the gear it self, which is maybe why among other possible things they were referring to Dota2. Maybe this is wishful thinking but that technically does still use only 8 skills slots.
The post above is correct.
They have made this choice to suit console players.
SO... cheers to all you console MMO players you will be happy.
Because so much of everything else about this game is what MMO players have wanted for years.
For me, I guess its TESO and ArcheAge.
Untill some other developer works out that RTS play and dynamic worlds and quality AI and
difficult BUT accessible ( as in... dont have to play 12 hours strait to be involved) is the way to go
Originally posted by Vidir EQnext more and more sound like a GW2 clone to me witch I dont like.
Then don't play. If you don't like it don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to play it, so don't.
Everyone, please stop complaining. If you don't like the way the game is turning out, then don't play it. Or do.
Just stop complaining.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Originally posted by MadDemon64 Originally posted by Vidir EQnext more and more sound like a GW2 clone to me witch I dont like.
Or you give feedback to the devs and they might change their mind depending on how many people would agree with a change.