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Can we do better?

kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member

 

Game mechanics aside.  Graphics aside. 

Do you think if the the old heads, the core groups, and the role players of those who played UO/AC/EQ/EQ2/SWG/AO/DAOC for the fun of it, for the social aspects.. got behind EQN and actually started spreading the good word we could bring the magic back?

 

Am I the only one that longs for that again?  I came to the conclusion a few weeks ago - the community made those old games fun.  Surely there was more to it than just combat and raid groups.  Of course there were epic battles, but were there not special times all around the combat and the thrill of leaning a new game and the fun of sharing in the experience?  Could we not have those same times again.  Are we so selfish for our own needs that we can bend a little for the greater good?

 

Have we all forgotten that?  I want it back.  I liked World of Warcraft as much as anyone - but do we want WoW to be the best game our genre could give?  My hope is the real gamer in all of us can get behind THIS game. EQN.  Whether we like it or want it changed, surely we can do better than we have over these last few weeks and give Everquest Next its fair shake? 

Comments

  • CragfireCragfire Wilimantic, CTPosts: 38Member

    Community, real comminuty, and exploration have been slowly striped out of Triple A title MMOs over the past 10 years. Most MMO gamers came into the scene after and never got to trully experiance Community and Exploration in any impactful way, and as a result can't trully understand how important these two things are.

    • Community is far more then looking for someone to fill the last group slot.
    • Exploration is far more then finding the next quest hub (themepark).
     
  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    I'm getting it back in FFXIV. Is that alright with you? :)

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cragfire

    Community, real comminuty, and exploration have been slowly striped out of Triple A title MMOs over the past 10 years. Most MMO gamers came into the scene after and never got to trully experiance Community and Exploration in any impactful way, and as a result can't trully understand how important these two things are.

    • Community is far more then looking for someone to fill the last group slot.
    • Exploration is far more then finding the next quest hub (themepark).
     

    What are you talking about? Vanilla WoW brung in a lot of new MMO gamers and it had a great community. I met lots of new people in WoW back then. More so than any other game really.

    image

  • Scorp2778Scorp2778 Swanton, OHPosts: 31Member
    I would love to have some similar experiences to what I had in UO, EQ and EQ2 that weren't solely progression based. I was in an amazing guild in EQ2. I am willing to give EQN a chance to bring back some UO and EQ "magic". I agree with you that community is what made the experiences fun. My guilds had a lot to do with the experience. I guess one way to bring back the community aspect is to find a guild that enjoys that part of an MMO.
  • CragfireCragfire Wilimantic, CTPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Cragfire

    Community, real comminuty, and exploration have been slowly striped out of Triple A title MMOs over the past 10 years. Most MMO gamers came into the scene after and never got to trully experiance Community and Exploration in any impactful way, and as a result can't trully understand how important these two things are.

    • Community is far more then looking for someone to fill the last group slot.
    • Exploration is far more then finding the next quest hub (themepark).
     

    What are you talking about? Vanilla WoW brung in a lot of new MMO gamers and it had a great community. I met lots of new people in WoW back then. More so than any other game really.

    I agree with you. I had mentioned slowly and over the last 10 years. WoW launched, bassically 10 years ago (9 years 6 months, or so). It indeed brought a lot of new people into the genre.

    Lets bring up another game example, TOR. Can be played from start to end solo. Poeple can group but the majority of the game can be played solo. As far as exploration went, it had a linear-themepark approch. It's just not real exploration. I only used TOR as one example but it can be said for quite a few titles that came out, say, after 2006.

  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I'm getting it back in FFXIV. Is that alright with you? :)

    Already got my CE for FFXIV ordered. I think FFXIV will satisfy my oldschoold itch for a while and I will certainly play it as hard as I play every MMO. 

     

    But I hope you catch my drift in the OP.  All I'm saying for EQN is I want the community behind it.  Not torn in 30 pieces.  One group as a whole behind it - like the original games.

     

     

    /hmm if the FFXIV crowd can forgive Square for dorking a launch and seemingly fix everything wrong with it (we hope) certainly the EON crowd could at least give the game a chance to be great?

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Cragfire

    Community, real comminuty, and exploration have been slowly striped out of Triple A title MMOs over the past 10 years. Most MMO gamers came into the scene after and never got to trully experiance Community and Exploration in any impactful way, and as a result can't trully understand how important these two things are.

    • Community is far more then looking for someone to fill the last group slot.
    • Exploration is far more then finding the next quest hub (themepark).
     

    What are you talking about? Vanilla WoW brung in a lot of new MMO gamers and it had a great community. I met lots of new people in WoW back then. More so than any other game really.

    I normally do not nit-pick on grammar, but please PLEASE do not ever use that word again :(

    Sorry, reading that word reminded me of an old English teacher of mine who would make our lives miserable when we slipped up and used a word such as that :(

    As for your reply to Cragfire - You are correct, Vanilla WoW started off with a good community as there were a lot of old school MMOers playing the game at launch. However, overtime the community did begin a dive into dude-broville. I remember taking a year off and when I came back chat was just horrible, groups never really talked and the overall feel of the playerbase began to remind me of a middle school lunchroom.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by krulux

     

    Game mechanics aside.  Graphics aside. 

    Do you think if the the old heads, the core groups, and the role players of those who played UO/AC/EQ/EQ2/SWG/AO/DAOC for the fun of it, for the social aspects.. got behind EQN and actually started spreading the good word we could bring the magic back?

     

    Am I the only one that longs for that again?  I came to the conclusion a few weeks ago - the community made those old games fun.  Surely there was more to it than just combat and raid groups.  Of course there were epic battles, but were there not special times all around the combat and the thrill of leaning a new game and the fun of sharing in the experience?  Could we not have those same times again.  Are we so selfish for our own needs that we can bend a little for the greater good?

     

    Have we all forgotten that?  I want it back.  I liked World of Warcraft as much as anyone - but do we want WoW to be the best game our genre could give?  My hope is the real gamer in all of us can get behind THIS game. EQN.  Whether we like it or want it changed, surely we can do better than we have over these last few weeks and give Everquest Next its fair shake? 

    I don't think the comminity of Dark Age of Camelot can ever be brought back again unless a game brings back the realm pride factor, when everyone was willing to drop what they were doing at the drop of a hat and do what was best for the realm. I miss that feeling from DAoC. Wow brought out the greed and pure personal reasons for playing that game. Hopefully it comes back in maybe ESO, or in a few years Camelot Unchained.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member
    Yea, I had a blast in DAOC as well. Albion Menace!
  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by krulux
    Yea, I had a blast in DAOC as well. Albion Menace!

    I loved killing Albs on my spear hero!

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I'm getting it back in FFXIV. Is that alright with you? :)

    This

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,656Member Uncommon

    From watching all the interviews/panels, it seems they really want to bring back a sense of community. They are really really focusing on building/crafting and working together.

    I can see it now, I'm building my little house by the river and the guy down the road comes over and asks to borrow some bricks for the shop he is building. I say sure and he gives me some leather hides in return. Or heck, he stops for a bit and actually helps me build my house.

    Or I'm out exploring the world and notice something odd in a hillside. I start digging and BAM, a hole opens to a black abyss below. Do I jump in alone or do I call out for some help from those near by and form a group to check this place out.

    I see a lot of areas where someone could go the lone wolf approach, but a lot more chances for meeting random players and having a fun adventure with.

    Tight knit groups will always be around to, but the random people doing their own thing make up a large chunk of the population and community.

    I doubt that same feeling will come back from EQ/DAoC or even early WoW for me, but that isn't going to stop me from trying to get a new experience for the next era of gaming. If they make some meaningful PVP that builds community instead of destroys it even further, I will be all over it.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by krulux
    Originally posted by Foomerang I'm getting it back in FFXIV. Is that alright with you? :)
    Already got my CE for FFXIV ordered. I think FFXIV will satisfy my oldschoold itch for a while and I will certainly play it as hard as I play every MMO. 

     

    But I hope you catch my drift in the OP.  All I'm saying for EQN is I want the community behind it.  Not torn in 30 pieces.  One group as a whole behind it - like the original games.

     

     

    /hmm if the FFXIV crowd can forgive Square for dorking a launch and seemingly fix everything wrong with it (we hope) certainly the EON crowd could at least give the game a chance to be great?


    Anything's possible. I wouldn't judge an in game community based on these forums or any forums for that matter. Forums are for when you can't play.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by Cragfire

    Community, real comminuty, and exploration have been slowly striped out of Triple A title MMOs over the past 10 years. Most MMO gamers came into the scene after and never got to trully experiance Community and Exploration in any impactful way, and as a result can't trully understand how important these two things are.

    • Community is far more then looking for someone to fill the last group slot.
    • Exploration is far more then finding the next quest hub (themepark).
     

    What are you talking about? Vanilla WoW brung in a lot of new MMO gamers and it had a great community. I met lots of new people in WoW back then. More so than any other game really.

    What are YOU talking about?

     

    Their post has nothing to do with a game bringing players into the MMO genre.  It has to do with the mindset of the community playing the game.  I played WoW for several years, and I never felt that the community matched anything even remotely close to what I experienced in Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot.  If you've never experienced and embraced some of the older games with community mechanics, you likely wouldn't understand.

     

    That's what their post was about.  Is it bad for me to say that it's typical that a WoW-backer would completely miss the point?  There is a huge difference in the people that you'd meet back in the golden age of MMO's and the people you'd meet now.  You wouldn't know if you never experienced it and you'd probably think that things are as good now as they were back then.  You simply don't know better, and that's not really your fault.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by Allein

    From watching all the interviews/panels, it seems they really want to bring back a sense of community. They are really really focusing on building/crafting and working together.

    I can see it now, I'm building my little house by the river and the guy down the road comes over and asks to borrow some bricks for the shop he is building. I say sure and he gives me some leather hides in return. Or heck, he stops for a bit and actually helps me build my house.

    Or I'm out exploring the world and notice something odd in a hillside. I start digging and BAM, a hole opens to a black abyss below. Do I jump in alone or do I call out for some help from those near by and form a group to check this place out.

    I see a lot of areas where someone could go the lone wolf approach, but a lot more chances for meeting random players and having a fun adventure with.

    Tight knit groups will always be around to, but the random people doing their own thing make up a large chunk of the population and community.

    I doubt that same feeling will come back from EQ/DAoC or even early WoW for me, but that isn't going to stop me from trying to get a new experience for the next era of gaming. If they make some meaningful PVP that builds community instead of destroys it even further, I will be all over it.

     

    Those are things that I miss.

     

    I remember meeting a player who was mining ore.  I was bored and I started to help him.  I didn't ask for a tip, I was just being nice.  I knew how much effort it took to be a good blacksmith.

     

    I also remember when myself and a friend walked up to a fisherman.  They were laying their catch along the pond that they were fishing from.  He said we could take all that we wanted because he couldn't carry it all.  It was a small gesture, but something you just don't see from people today.

     

    Back then, it was commonplace to meet up with strangers and create your own quest.

     

    My very first memory from Ultima Online was the worst and best memory that I had gaming.  I logged in and was going about my own business trying to learn the basics, when I met a mage for the first time.  This mage created a portal and told me to enter, as it would take me to a safe city.  So not knowing any better, I jumped at a chance to see what was on the other side.  Little did I know.

     

    I was greeted with darkness and crackling noises.  I tried to go back through the portal, sensing danger obviously, but as quick as I entered, the portal vanished.  So here I am, with no light spell or torch.  I can barely see anything and within moments, I'm being chased by skeletons.  I'm literally straight out of the womb, so even petty skeletons are a serious challenge and I'm running for my life.  I came to a dead end, and of course it was a liches room.  Just a normal one luckily, but still considerably more powerful than me.  I ran, but it didn't matter.  One flamestrike and I was sleeping.  So I am now a ghost, in a place I know nothing about.  I have no idea where I am or how to get out.  Well, that's when I met a player named Kalis, whom I became friends with for quite a long time.  He happened to be able to speak to ghosts, which was a largely useless skill, but not at this moment.  it was likely that I would have quit playing the game entirely if this certain set of circumstances never came about.

     

    So he resurrects me and asks me how I got to be in the bottom of a dungeon without much of anything to defend myself.  I recount my story, which he finds amusing of course.  Then he hands me a suit of a armor and a sword.  He tells me to stay behind him and we enact revenge on the lich that earlier made a joke of me in an instant.  I thought he was the most powerful player in the world.  He led me out of danger, called a mage friend of his to aid, and his friend pored us to Britain.  We talked awhile, he lended me a few thousand gold and as I said, we become friends for quite a while.  Had many adventures together and even played other games like Quake 2 and Diablo 1. 

     

    I haven't had anything as great as that happen in any community.  Some good moments, sure, but nothing where a complete stranger risks his life for you, only to become your mentor and best gaming friend for years, and for no other reason than the goodness of someones heart.

     

    And no, I never saw that evil mage again, who was just trolling me.  So yes, there were those people too.  They were much fewer and further between though.

  • LoverNoFighterLoverNoFighter Star CItyPosts: 294Member

    I miss SWG. That was a good MMO even after the disaster called the NGE.

    Once someone actually make a good MMO, the community will follow.

    Sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon.

  • FionnFionn Austin, TXPosts: 68Member
    I'm cracking up when people are saying the FFXIV is going to be reminiscent of a good MMO.  The first one failed hard core and they had to redesign the game because it was "that bad."  Watching the trailers to this game and player videos from Beta.. I can easily say this is not an MMO I would consider in the top tier of quality MMOs like EQ1.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fionn
    I'm cracking up when people are saying the FFXIV is going to be reminiscent of a good MMO.  The first one failed hard core and they had to redesign the game because it was "that bad."  Watching the trailers to this game and player videos from Beta.. I can easily say this is not an MMO I would consider in the top tier of quality MMOs like EQ1.

    No one is saying it's an old school MMO. What they are saying is that it's the closest thing offered to we used to have in an Old School MMO. It's only my impression, but I'd place it in the "old School" scale probably better than say Wrath of the Lich King, but not as good as TBC.

     

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

         Depends on what the intent is.. SOE's intent here is to make money off the cash shop.. PERIOD.. That is how F2P games stay alive.. SOE doesn't care about the community working together, unless it's conducted through "player studio" where they get a cut of the action like Mafia.. LOL

         I would rather see this game be a B2P or cheap P2P game focusing on game play, then finding tricky ways of getting MONEY.. I notice how the cash shop topic was "ignored" and just how exactly does SOE plan on turning a significant profit?  I'm glad my bowling alley doesn't go F2P.. They'll charge me for each pin I take down..  Something tells me that a good chuck of ALL this fun the panels are talking about will be behind a paywall..

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common

    OP, the magic an be re-obtained, and it not just buried in nostalgia, for certain.

    The magic is likely just this formula

    "the magic feeling" = fear (of dying) + wonder (of what's out there) + community (needing people to survive)

  • kruluxkrulux Atlanta - South, GAPosts: 229Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    OP, the magic an be re-obtained, and it not just buried in nostalgia, for certain.

    The magic is likely just this formula

    "the magic feeling" = fear (of dying) + wonder (of what's out there) + community (needing people to survive)

    Excellent post... I think your formula sums up how I feel nicely.  If EQN is better than average, it should easily allow us to experience the wonder again.

     

     

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    big game companies = big budget = mush(a game trying to be all things to all players)
  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member
    I'm hoping there'll be room for a lot of this with those rallying calls.
  • CragfireCragfire Wilimantic, CTPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by krulux
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    OP, the magic an be re-obtained, and it not just buried in nostalgia, for certain.

    The magic is likely just this formula

    "the magic feeling" = fear (of dying) + wonder (of what's out there) + community (needing people to survive)

    Excellent post... I think your formula sums up how I feel nicely.  If EQN is better than average, it should easily allow us to experience the wonder again.

    Agreed. Great post by both of you. People hated corpse runs that could take hours, nakid - on the other hand - when death becomes the poor-mans teleport, it has zero impact and all risk is removed. These are extremes and hopefully EQN will have a healthy balance. This is just one of those areas that's gotten too soft in gameplay over the years.

    I can't count the number of stories I have, and friends of mine have, of where they were out exploring in EQ1 and due to the harsh death penility, there was actual fear and excitement. Kithicor Forest at night anyone? In a game that had a trully black night, that was unforgetable. I remember following someone at night though that zone and they dissapeared and over the phone I hear all kinds of cussing. He died. I froze in spot till the sun came up in game. I didn't move a pixel. haha. :)

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Allein

    From watching all the interviews/panels, it seems they really want to bring back a sense of community. They are really really focusing on building/crafting and working together.

    I can see it now, I'm building my little house by the river and the guy down the road comes over and asks to borrow some bricks for the shop he is building. I say sure and he gives me some leather hides in return. Or heck, he stops for a bit and actually helps me build my house.

    Or I'm out exploring the world and notice something odd in a hillside. I start digging and BAM, a hole opens to a black abyss below. Do I jump in alone or do I call out for some help from those near by and form a group to check this place out.

    I see a lot of areas where someone could go the lone wolf approach, but a lot more chances for meeting random players and having a fun adventure with.

    Tight knit groups will always be around to, but the random people doing their own thing make up a large chunk of the population and community.

    I doubt that same feeling will come back from EQ/DAoC or even early WoW for me, but that isn't going to stop me from trying to get a new experience for the next era of gaming. If they make some meaningful PVP that builds community instead of destroys it even further, I will be all over it.

     

    Those are things that I miss.

     

    I remember meeting a player who was mining ore.  I was bored and I started to help him.  I didn't ask for a tip, I was just being nice.  I knew how much effort it took to be a good blacksmith.

     

    I also remember when myself and a friend walked up to a fisherman.  They were laying their catch along the pond that they were fishing from.  He said we could take all that we wanted because he couldn't carry it all.  It was a small gesture, but something you just don't see from people today.

     

    Back then, it was commonplace to meet up with strangers and create your own quest.

     

    My very first memory from Ultima Online was the worst and best memory that I had gaming.  I logged in and was going about my own business trying to learn the basics, when I met a mage for the first time.  This mage created a portal and told me to enter, as it would take me to a safe city.  So not knowing any better, I jumped at a chance to see what was on the other side.  Little did I know.

     

    I was greeted with darkness and crackling noises.  I tried to go back through the portal, sensing danger obviously, but as quick as I entered, the portal vanished.  So here I am, with no light spell or torch.  I can barely see anything and within moments, I'm being chased by skeletons.  I'm literally straight out of the womb, so even petty skeletons are a serious challenge and I'm running for my life.  I came to a dead end, and of course it was a liches room.  Just a normal one luckily, but still considerably more powerful than me.  I ran, but it didn't matter.  One flamestrike and I was sleeping.  So I am now a ghost, in a place I know nothing about.  I have no idea where I am or how to get out.  Well, that's when I met a player named Kalis, whom I became friends with for quite a long time.  He happened to be able to speak to ghosts, which was a largely useless skill, but not at this moment.  it was likely that I would have quit playing the game entirely if this certain set of circumstances never came about.

     

    So he resurrects me and asks me how I got to be in the bottom of a dungeon without much of anything to defend myself.  I recount my story, which he finds amusing of course.  Then he hands me a suit of a armor and a sword.  He tells me to stay behind him and we enact revenge on the lich that earlier made a joke of me in an instant.  I thought he was the most powerful player in the world.  He led me out of danger, called a mage friend of his to aid, and his friend pored us to Britain.  We talked awhile, he lended me a few thousand gold and as I said, we become friends for quite a while.  Had many adventures together and even played other games like Quake 2 and Diablo 1. 

     

    I haven't had anything as great as that happen in any community.  Some good moments, sure, but nothing where a complete stranger risks his life for you, only to become your mentor and best gaming friend for years, and for no other reason than the goodness of someones heart.

     

    And no, I never saw that evil mage again, who was just trolling me.  So yes, there were those people too.  They were much fewer and further between though.

    Oh yeah.. i miss UO, too. Maybe we can get some of that magic back

    But as with your example.. you more often then not need danger and or jerks that good things can even happen. Because without the "evil" it is hard to find anything "good". And nowadays everything is with a safety belt

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