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No Raids/Endgame..

ManakarManakar toobuck, VAPosts: 103Member

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/everquest-next-interview-dave-georgeson/

 

Ok no raiding and no endgame.. I just do not see how they will keep content fresh for a long period of time without these things.. The world will only be able to change so much. Do they think doing rallying calls will keep people playing? And how long before you end up doing the same rallying calls over and over? I just do not see how they can have an unlimited number of completely different and interesting dynamic rallying calls..

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Comments

  • DragonMyth88DragonMyth88 Orlando, FLPosts: 242Member Uncommon

    rallying calls are 2-3 months so you can only finish 4-6 a year that give ample time to patch in more rallying calls.

  • ManakarManakar toobuck, VAPosts: 103Member
    Yeah I dont see people sticking around for that.. lol We will see though
  • CragfireCragfire Wilimantic, CTPosts: 38Member

    From my understanding, Rally Calls are singular, unique, events; for good or bad outcomes, it's how each server will differ from one another over time. It sounds as though (and, of course, I could be mistaken) this is the way new content will be added to the game instead of traditional expansions; and that they will be happening on a pretty regular basis.

     

    Raids, as we know them as 70+ people, or 24 people (eq2), might be a thing of the past, but I have a feeling we will still encounter extremely tough enemies (example the Iron golem from the video).

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member

    Raids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • ManakarManakar toobuck, VAPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by stayBlind

    Raids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    WoW didnt invent raids or endgame... They were around before WoW.. lol

  • NadiliNadili Grand Forks, BCPosts: 197Member
    I hope we get open contested again but feel like that is a pipe dream.  Make it lock to a group and if they wipe give it a  timer if they can't recover and get it going next group can give it a go.  Some real server competition wouldn't hurt the genre.

    image
  • DragonMyth88DragonMyth88 Orlando, FLPosts: 242Member Uncommon

    sine EQ next has no levels you theoretically start in the end game which is playing the way you want and playing the game.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    EQN is designed as a console game, so the target audience can't be asked to do complicated tasks, and raiding requires coordination and planning.

     

    Since there is also no endgame and no progression outside of scattered horizontal stuff and 40 classes to either earn or buy in the cashshop, that also hurts the need to have raids and / or guilds.

     

    The Rally's remind me more like some cross between traditional WoW dailys and GW2 themepark dynamic events, with some kind of randomness thrown in server to server .. some might be gnoll paws, some might be gnoll ears to collect, etc..

     

    This is a beautiful game with great engine capabilities .. unfortunately designed for casual gamers who only have 10 minutes here, or an hour next week .. all the while wanting what everyone else has (or buying what they can't get from the cashshop potentially).

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Manakar
    Originally posted by stayBlind

    Raids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    WoW didnt invent raids or endgame... They were around before WoW.. lol

    Yea, and they were just as boring then too!

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • ManakarManakar toobuck, VAPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Originally posted by Manakar
    Originally posted by stayBlind

    Raids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    WoW didnt invent raids or endgame... They were around before WoW.. lol

    Yea, and they were just as boring then too!

    Like you would know.. You tried to say WoW made raids and endgame.. You edited your post fast though huh?

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I am wondering where the longevity will be besides constructing and terraforming.

    I mean you can explore, do rally calls, but why?

    Is it going to be another game the purpose of playing which is "to have fun"?

    MMORPGs usually have some sort of long term goal / objective. I do not see it yet in EQN.

    People who really like constructing will have a game for many many years for sure :)

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Thank goodness.  I hate raids.  Sandboxes shouldn't have endgames.  Rallying Calls will just be one facet of their dynamic content.  I'd think of it more like Rifts' world events.  It's like a public quest on crack, with multiple phases.  Except that the end result will change a portion of the world permanently. 

     

    We've heard of being able to relocate entire mob spawns.  Them moving on their own based on player movements.  So the world and it's denizens will be moving around just as much as the players.  One month, you could run through an empty field, and the next month, you might run through the same field that is now infested with orcs.

     

    I can only use my experience with Ultima Online to explain not having raids.  UO was designed to allow any one single player to be able to take down any mob in the game.  Some of those mobs had to be handled very carefully, because they could one-shot you.  I do imagine there will be creatures like this.  Taking a group may be beneficial, but forcing players into time consuming raids doesn't seem like it fits what they have been preaching.  It's much more likely that they will have challenges appropriate to much smaller groups of players.  This makes what you would consider 'endgame' more accessible to the casual player.

     

    If there is housing, that is another time-sink.  Placing your home, maybe designing it?  Decorating it perhaps.  This could take up huge chunks of time.  We literally know nothing about this.  And to piggy back that, what about guild structures?  Castles and keeps that need defended.  We don't know about what they have in store for PvP, if it's open world or involves territory control.  Do we know if there will be arenas? 

     

    What about the explorers?  With the world they are creating, you can go deep into the ground.. and possibly flying mounts?  They did mention flying islands in an example when describing Rallying Calls.  Will there be ocean travel?  Will there be ocean content?  Cities?  Enemy NPC's?  Will there be a whole fishing system? 

     

    What about minigames?  Chess and Checkers?  Card games?  Gambling?  Musical instruments like in LOTRO?  You know, your basic fluff that ends up being a large time sink for the people who like those things.  Ultima Online had rare item collecting.  Those items spawned throughout the world rarely, and had no usefulness within the game.  It was like having some incredibly expensive and rare piece of artwork in real life. 

     

    Will there be an auction house?  Or perhaps a player bazaar where you have to actually peddle your wares face to face with other players.  Will there be NPC house vendors? 

     

    What about reputation grinds?  Achievement systems?  Easter Eggs?  We already know there will be over 40 classes to collect, and more being released on a regular basis.  We know there is going to be some sort of deity system, where gods will play some role in things. 

     

    I don't know if it will be enough, but I can see there being a lot more to do than your typical MMO. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by coretex666

    I am wondering where the longevity will be besides constructing and terraforming.

    I mean you can explore, do rally calls, but why?

    Is it going to be another game the purpose of playing which is "to have fun"?

    MMORPGs usually have some sort of long term goal / objective. I do not see it yet in EQN.

    People who really like constructing will have a game for many many years for sure :)

    So, within the context of the thread are you implying that the only thing to do at "end game" is raid?  After all these years of bitching about more of the same and wow clones we're down to bitching because we want something different that is exactly the same.  Why not just keep playing wow or rift?

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    I've always wanted to play MMOs where I can build and craft properly instead of just killing. Also, I've done my fair share of raiding since EQ and honestly doubt if I care about it anymore. I'm sure that I'm not the only one. Besides, I believe that EQN offers content similar to raiding, I just hope it won't be brainless faceroll zerg like GW2 champion fights.
  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common

    Anyone else tired of players worrying about running to end game?

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    Having watched the video and others I have to say...

    They have said there is no end game because there is no traditional vertical leveling and because they expect the procedural world to change enough to keep people interested but not once have I heard them state categorically no raiding.

    No End game =/= no raiding there could very well be dungeons that require large groups to do and they have said there will be story driven and procedurally generated dungeons.

    It may turn out there is no raiding ,or not in the traditional sense as Rally Calls could be considered unorganized raids that run several months,but Dave never actually said no raiding and hasn't in any interview I've seen.

    Unless some one can point me to an interview that does state that clearly.

  • bexinhbexinh MelbournePosts: 68Member
    Or there will be end game and raids but in different forms. Our definition of end game and raids may be different to their
  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member
    Originally posted by Manakar

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/everquest-next-interview-dave-georgeson/

     

    Ok no raiding and no endgame.. 

    Sold. I already won the raid.

    I liked raids when they were a special event. Originally in EQ, there simply weren't enough raid targets (and the ones that were in game were on 7 day respawn?), to raid every single night. Nightly raiding was the natural progression of a game that even the developers admitted wasn't future proofed. Sure, we did it for years in our house as we still loved the game and friends we'd made, but it got old - and then everything 'new' simply copied everything 'old'.

    We've been raiding since EQ, if I wanted raids - or to just keep playing a similar game over and over I'd play EQ, WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, SWTOR, AOC, Rift, or any of the others (that I've understandably forgotten) that follow the exact same model. While I'd choose EQ if I wanted a proper raid experience, there's certainly no shortage of choice for those that prefer a different paint job. 

    It's not like there's no options for people that still aren't sick to death of the raid game.

    Sorry, but I haven't seen the over all raid experience change in over a decade now - the numbers and settings have changed, but the experience is over all the same.

    Why not just stick with a game that does offer raids? What's wrong with the massive percentage of games that do have raids that their not holding your attention?

    Don't forget, people played SWG, UO, Horizons and other sandboxes for years without raids, as well as a ton of social MMOs, DAOC (which did have raids - though as any vet will tell you they were not the focus, in fact you could get your raid weapon in one night then just lvl it last I played), is also still going. I'm sure there are plenty more examples people could point to.

     

     

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    A game based on raiding and "endgame" design will not keep my attention for long, that's for sure.

    The whole "the real game starts at endgame" logic belongs in the past, for many reasons. I for one am very happy that some AAA devs FINALLY start to pick up the threads left by UO, SWG, EVE and other open-ended games, and leave the trinity-based PvE gear grinds to rot on the trash heaps of MMO history where they belong.

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manakar
    Originally posted by stayBlind

    Raids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    WoW didnt invent raids or endgame... They were around before WoW.. lol

    Everquest created them...

     

    And to not expand on them, but completely abandon them.... what part of this game is being designed for the old school everquest player?

     

    I am happy that casual players have one more game to play, but honeslty, if any game shouldve had raiidng it should be everquest. and its not ok to completely abandon the vets, i dont care what people seem to be saying on this forums to the contrary, its just not ok.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

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  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member

    it has public raids

    The game has Rallying Calls (public quests) that could take anything up to several month, like building a city, or defend a city from a iron golem.

    There are lots of ways to progress your character, just not the traditional leveling.

    40 classes, each one is advanced individually. There are tiers. A tier three warrior, in order to advance to tier four, has to collect a full suit of tier three armor. You have to have spent enough points in that class. You have to have accomplished a certain amount of things in the game in order to have advanced.

    Cannot progress both a paladin and a shadow knight at the same time. Basically you have to do bad things to get friendly with the SK people so you can up the SK skills, but you have to do good things to get in nice with the paladin folks to get trained in paladin things.

    Attributes will be faily rare in the game and something that gives significantly cool things: Giving yourself a point of strength means that maybe you jump higher as example.. and that’s one of the things you can progress and earn in the game.

    source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/08/03/everquest-next-interview/

    Btw it will not be easy to get all 40 classes at all. Probably will take even the most hardcore player years, because of the procedural generated world and emergent AI, the world is never the same. You cant alt-tab and read how you get the assasin class.  There is no ! and ? above NPCs.

  • ManakarManakar toobuck, VAPosts: 103Member
    Originally posted by Arcona

    it has public raids

    The game has Rallying Calls (public quests) that could take anything up to several month, like building a city, or defend a city from a iron golem.

    There are lots of ways to progress your character, just not the traditional leveling.

    40 classes, each one is advanced individually. There are tiers. A tier three warrior, in order to advance to tier four, has to collect a full suit of tier three armor. You have to have spent enough points in that class. You have to have accomplished a certain amount of things in the game in order to have advanced.

    Cannot progress both a paladin and a shadow knight at the same time. Basically you have to do bad things to get friendly with the SK people so you can up the SK skills, but you have to do good things to get in nice with the paladin folks to get trained in paladin things.

    Attributes will be faily rare in the game and something that gives significantly cool things: Giving yourself a point of strength means that maybe you jump higher as example.. and that’s one of the things you can progress and earn in the game.

    source: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/08/03/everquest-next-interview/

    Now think about what they can do to keep a rallying call interesting for months.. If you think you will be fighting for 2 to 3 months straight 24/7 you are kidding yourself... you will be gathering resources for months sure... thats fun.. lol with small fights here and there til the end event where its a full on zerg fest battle..

  • FionnFionn Austin, TXPosts: 68Member

    EQN Panels have ALL said there will be:

    Raids

    Dungeons

    Rallying Calls

    PVP

    Crafting

    Building Structures

    Horizontal Progression of your character

    Over +160 unique skills with over 40+ classes

    Tiered Leveling of your Armor, Weapons, and Skills.

     

  • Fish_TacosFish_Tacos LisbonPosts: 19Member
    Originally posted by Valkaern

    We've been raiding since EQ, if I wanted raids - or to just keep playing a similar game over and over I'd play EQ, WoW, FFXI, FFXIV, SWTOR, AOC, Rift, or any of the others (that I've understandably forgotten) that follow the exact same model. While I'd choose EQ if I wanted a proper raid experience, there's certainly no shortage of choice for those that prefer a different paint job. 

    It's not like there's no options for people that still aren't sick to death of the raid game.

    Sorry, but I haven't seen the over all raid experience change in over a decade now - the numbers and settings have changed, but the experience is over all the same.

    Why not just stick with a game that does offer raids? What's wrong with the massive percentage of games that do have raids that their not holding your attention?

     

    I agree with this. Raiding doesn't really seem sandboxy either (since EQN is supposed to be a sandbox according to what they've been saying).

     

    Even if there aren't raids in EQN, in addition to the games mentioned above, WildStar will still be coming out with raids, according to what I've read. I'm happy to see more games coming out that don't rely on the gear treadmill for "end game." I've had more than enough of that.

    image
  • FionnFionn Austin, TXPosts: 68Member

    Even if there aren't raids in EQN, in addition to the games mentioned above, WildStar will still be coming out with raids, according to what I've read. I'm happy to see more games coming out that don't rely on the gear treadmill for "end game." I've had more than enough of that.

    There are Raids in EQN.  David Georgeson has specifically said there was Dungeons and Raids in EQN.  Also EQ would not be the same without Raids and Dungeons, no matter how sand boxy it is.

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