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World Size and a Few Questions

After the huge deflation from eqnext, I started looking for a mmo to start on and came across FF14.  As a long time Vanguard player this game looks really interesting.  So here if you don't mind are a few questions to those that might have better insight than me.

 

  • Is the World large?  Any comparisons, like for instance Rift or Vanguard.  Is it seemless, are there many dungeons to explore?
 
 
 
  • I read this game brings back some old school challenges from older games, that would be great is this true?
 
 
  • Is the dungeon grouping just have the tank round up everything with aoe taunt then burn down, or is there a bit more challenge involved like cc.
 
 
  • Does everything have oversized armor and weps or is there some resemblance of a western mmo.  I can live with some eastern styles as long as there's a variance of western mixed in.  From I've seen so far it doesn't look to shabby.
 
 
 
That's all I have right now, kinda just stumbled on this game so really have no info on it except from what I've been reading.
 
Thanks for the input.
 
 
 

Comments

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    The world is rather large, id say zones are on par or larger than rifts. they;re not seamless though. there is several dungeons, not sure on the exact amount, but there was 7 instances to run in the beta, and there's at least 11 in the starting 3 regions. I believe there's 2 more regions at live. we got pics on our site up of the 3 zones and instances drawn up so theyre linked: http://trf-guild.com/forums/index.php?action=gallery;cat=10 (we stole it)

    Yea...i think some of the fights are challenging, alot of people seemed to get stuck on the level 15 solo instance quest and there was lots of complaints about ifit being too hard for some people. if you're a veteran MMO player experienced in raiding, you wont find these things low level things difficult though. I believe the higher level stuff is certainly harder.

    sofar its been rather tank and spank, but the midlevel fights(at around level 30) are becoming more complex. you can certainly CC mobs though, it will greatly heap with healing.

    Nah i think the arts pretty good, certainly not overstylzed on the weapons or anything.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • Curt2013Curt2013 Dallas, TXPosts: 24Member

    Thanks for the link, this game is really peaking my interest.  Do all races have there own starting city or can you choose your city?

     

    I remember playing FFXI and it was quite good, but was playing eqoa so had to choose and stuck with the eqoa.

  • JayFiveAliveJayFiveAlive Arvada, COPosts: 534Member Uncommon

    I'd love to know if there are multiple starting cities as well.

     

    I go back and forth with this game... to pre-order or not.. to play or to not....

  • FoxyShoxzyFoxyShoxzy Dallas, TXPosts: 119Member

    There are 3 different starting "city states", and where you start depends on what class you pick (not your race).

    http://eorzeareborn.com/a-guide-to-classes-in-ffxivarr/

     

    As to the armor models, I don't find them too big at all. If you download the character creation benchmark, you can see the race specific gear, as well as the level 20, 30, 40, and Artifact level Paladin sets. I think they look amazing; so much detail, and not exaggerated for my tastes. YMMV.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Here are various armor sets, without spoilering endgame.  Included are many Artificat Armor sets (classic FF job sets), crafting/gathering sets, grand company sets, many primal weapons etc.
  • Black-MagicBlack-Magic SydneyPosts: 99Member Uncommon
    Ty for the Link it looks good. The gear looks great.

    image
  • LambonLambon New York, NYPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    After the huge deflation from eqnext, I started looking for a mmo to start on and came across FF14.  As a long time Vanguard player this game looks really interesting.  So here if you don't mind are a few questions to those that might have better insight than me.

     

    • Is the World large?  Any comparisons, like for instance Rift or Vanguard.  Is it seemless, are there many dungeons to explore?
     It's an illusion really. Very linear world. You can get through it relatively quickly.
     
     
    • I read this game brings back some old school challenges from older games, that would be great is this true?
     Not really...you just have to use a simple rotation...there's no skill trees or AA so everyone is basically the same... There's not really any coordination either. The game is very simplified in that respect. It can be a bit boring.
     
    • Is the dungeon grouping just have the tank round up everything with aoe taunt then burn down, or is there a bit more challenge involved like cc.
     You can CC with Sleep and Repose, but it's useless in low level dungeons; unless they beef it up for retail.
     
    • Does everything have oversized armor and weps or is there some resemblance of a western mmo.  I can live with some eastern styles as long as there's a variance of western mixed in.  From I've seen so far it doesn't look to shabby.
     
     The armor is fine. The weapons are huge and ridiculous...They are stupid big...
     

     
     
     

     

  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,357Member Uncommon
    Armor model is very... final fantasy like. very...lord of the rings like but better. This is not your typical korean MMO with big swords and flashy big armor or tight g-string armors that cover nothing, Armors here are nice, they work, they are realistic but still have that fantasy touch to them.

    image

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Lambon
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    After the huge deflation from eqnext, I started looking for a mmo to start on and came across FF14.  As a long time Vanguard player this game looks really interesting.  So here if you don't mind are a few questions to those that might have better insight than me.

     

    • Is the World large?  Any comparisons, like for instance Rift or Vanguard.  Is it seemless, are there many dungeons to explore?
     It's an illusion really. Very linear world. You can get through it relatively quickly.
     
     
    • I read this game brings back some old school challenges from older games, that would be great is this true?
     Not really...you just have to use a simple rotation...there's no skill trees or AA so everyone is basically the same... There's not really any coordination either. The game is very simplified in that respect. It can be a bit boring.
     
    • Is the dungeon grouping just have the tank round up everything with aoe taunt then burn down, or is there a bit more challenge involved like cc.
     You can CC with Sleep and Repose, but it's useless in low level dungeons; unless they beef it up for retail.
     
    • Does everything have oversized armor and weps or is there some resemblance of a western mmo.  I can live with some eastern styles as long as there's a variance of western mixed in.  From I've seen so far it doesn't look to shabby.
     
     The armor is fine. The weapons are huge and ridiculous...They are stupid big...
     

     
     

     

    While you certainly have a right to your opinion and not to like the game, I don't see how the world size is an illusion or linear.  Most modern MMORPG's have linear zone progression, whereas here you are sent all over the world to different regions as early as level 15.  Combat is not simple rotations, jobs have complex mechanics like Black Mage astral fire (damage and cost ramping)/umbral ice (mp regeneration) aura's and thundercloud (free proc changing Thunder from a DoT to a non-cost instant damage of all DoT damage), monks have 3 interlocking forms with multiple abilities in each and the ability to speed up their combat through proper use, dragoons have a number of ways they can power their attacks and jumps in order to deal spike damage, and summoners have a variety of pets for different roles and a pretty unique take on a DoT based DD class with extensions, stacking, and spreading mechanics.

     

    Let me put it this way, if you say that combat is simple rotations then post your simple rotation for all jobs so we can see and critique it.

     

    The person also asked if dungeons were able to be AOE mowed through, that is not the case even on easy introductory dungeons.  DD trying to AOE their way through everything like in WoW or many other modern titles will find themselves dead fairly quickly.  Also sleep/repose is not useless, you can survive without it but you are spam healing more by having multiple mobs attacking your tank (hopefully) where you could be helping out with damage.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    After the huge deflation from eqnext, I started looking for a mmo to start on and came across FF14.  As a long time Vanguard player this game looks really interesting.  So here if you don't mind are a few questions to those that might have better insight than me.

     

    • Is the World large?  Any comparisons, like for instance Rift or Vanguard.  Is it seemless, are there many dungeons to explore?
     
     The world is fairly large, from what I was able to see, and some of the backdrops are simply gorgeous. I find myself just staring at some of the horizons in certain zones. That said, the world is very much broken up into non-seamless zones. So far there are a good number of dungeons, that start to pick up at around ~lvl15/16 or so. However there were some gaps, one of which was mid-late 20s (which they had an NPC to auto-lvl you up). That said, there was a good amount, and there's supposed to be a lot more come launch.
     
    • I read this game brings back some old school challenges from older games, that would be great is this true?
     A lot of people on these forums are saying that. The best explanation I can give for this, is that it's a final fantasy game (gives some of that final fantasy nostalgia a bit). I too played Vanguard, as well as a host of other oldschool MMOs, and there are a lot of differences. FFXIV (so far) seems like it falls somewhere in between FFXI and GW2. It's still primarily quest driven (not unlike FFXI), but instead of the monster camps & such a lot of older games had, it has more kill-quest grinding & dynamic events via the FATE system (which are basically dynamic events) and leves (which are mostly all repeatable kill-quests, or delivery quests for the crafting classes).
     
    The combat is also more simplified than in a lot of those older games. Limit breaks are now limited to 1 per group, instead of each individual person having their own, or having the ability to chain them together (like in FFXI / EQ2). Now, there are supposed to be endgame raids & such, but they aren't available in the game yet, so no one knows for sure what they will be like. I will say that, so far, I've only found 1 quest in the game that was difficult, and the rest were WAY too easy.
     
    • Is the dungeon grouping just have the tank round up everything with aoe taunt then burn down, or is there a bit more challenge involved like cc.
     Dungeons atm are basically tank rounds up & AoE taunt / damage, while everyone else just burns them down. There is CC in the game (like Sleep), but I found it unnecessary for most fights. Like I said, currently the dungeons in this game are far too easy. I've even seen videos of people doing dungeons like Sastasha (the first one), without realizing the boss mechanic, and just facerolled him anyway.
     
    There's also a threat meter for each person, so you can see how close each party member is to getting aggro. Kind of a nice feature, but it does make things pretty simple as a tank (especially when u can spam Flash through most fights).
     
    • Does everything have oversized armor and weps or is there some resemblance of a western mmo.  I can live with some eastern styles as long as there's a variance of western mixed in.  From I've seen so far it doesn't look to shabby.
     Weapons and armor are very much Final Fantasy. If you ever played FFXI you'll see a lot of similarities, including that god awful subligear -.-. If I had to compare it to non-FF games I'd say they do a pretty even mix between encorperating more western gear-types (i.e. knights via the Paladin) and some more eastern styles. Overall the armor & weapon skins are very, very good. The graphics & art of this game are definitely one of the game's strengths.
     
     
    That's all I have right now, kinda just stumbled on this game so really have no info on it except from what I've been reading.
     
    Thanks for the input.
     

    Answers in the quote. Hope that helps!

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member

    I just want to point out that spamming flash is a terrible way to tank.  Please don't take the person above's advice if you are planning to tank.  Flash is a great instant aoe enmity grabber for mobs that recently spawned, or to use occasionally to keep your enmity up on mobs you are not fighting so you don't lose aggro to heals.

     

    However against any DD not falling asleep at their keyboard, spamming flash is not a good way to keep aggro on you.

     

    However as mentioned there is a threat meter, so if your DD are nice they really have no excuse to pull aggro no matter how terrible of a tank you are.

     

    Also in general the community is pretty great, so you even people who don't play their roles very well can be carried through low level content (which isn't designed to be very difficult anyways) and you won't get screamed at like the youtube videos of people playing WoW. 

     

    Basically from 1-35 you are eased into grouping in MMORPG's in a lot of low stress situations, where you are encouraged and in many cases forced to pay attention to new mechanics and gradually more complex roles.  The goal being in the producer's own words, that for simple introductory content they wanted random dungeon finder groups to be able to complete them with little drama or issue that would turn people away from grouping (because so much of the game's content is group centric).  Later on it becomes gradually more difficult, but the idea is that hopefully most people will learn how to play and want to play in groups (which most people have been turned away from in recent years it seems).

  • Curt2013Curt2013 Dallas, TXPosts: 24Member

    Geeze why would they add a threat meter, that kinda takes a little of the fun out of it.  Yes I usually prefer to play tanking classes, but I would prefer a game that didnt allow for such gather then aoe down. 

     

    Would be nice if the world was seemless but not too bad i suppose if the the only loading screen is for zoning.   It appears the first launch of the game was really bad? So its much better now?

     

    Regards

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    Geeze why would they add a threat meter, that kinda takes a little of the fun out of it.  Yes I usually prefer to play tanking classes, but I would prefer a game that didnt allow for such gather then aoe down. 

     

    Would be nice if the world was seemless but not too bad i suppose if the the only loading screen is for zoning.   It appears the first launch of the game was really bad? So its much better now?

     

    Regards

    You can't gather and AOE down, AOE tank skills are either very high TP cost (warrior) or not strong enough to compare to AOE attacks from BLM or Archer.  If you try to just "gather and aoe" your DD are going to take aggro and way too much damage as even trash mobs can be lethal to non-tanks.

     

    It is more efficient for everyone to focus on one mob in the group at a time.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    Geeze why would they add a threat meter, that kinda takes a little of the fun out of it.  Yes I usually prefer to play tanking classes, but I would prefer a game that didnt allow for such gather then aoe down. 

     

    Would be nice if the world was seemless but not too bad i suppose if the the only loading screen is for zoning.   It appears the first launch of the game was really bad? So its much better now?

     

    Regards

    You can't gather and AOE down, AOE tank skills are either very high TP cost (warrior) or not strong enough to compare to AOE attacks from BLM or Archer.  If you try to just "gather and aoe" your DD are going to take aggro and way too much damage as even trash mobs can be lethal to non-tanks.

     

    It is more efficient for everyone to focus on one mob in the group at a time.

    With all the content available in the game currently, Flash is absolutely able to hold AoE aggro (as long as you stay alive as the tank, and you're actually hitting all targets with it). That's where proper positioning comes into player. I've even had a few linkshells in beta try and recruit me for my tanking, while I was just spamming flash & marking targets. Easy.

    With Marauder, you're right the TP cost is fairly high, however it also does a decent amount of damage compared to flash. Currently, you only AoE trash, so they tend to die before you run out of TP.

    And I agree, spamming Flash isn't necessarily a good way to tank, but that was kind of my point. Atm that's all that's required from dungeons. Spamming flash (and the sword slash that gives you MP) is enough to hold aggro for every single dungeon currently playable. I am hoping that the dungeons they add passed lvl 34 will be more demanding, but as none of us can play them yet, there's no way to comment on them.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    Geeze why would they add a threat meter, that kinda takes a little of the fun out of it.  Yes I usually prefer to play tanking classes, but I would prefer a game that didnt allow for such gather then aoe down. 

     

    Would be nice if the world was seemless but not too bad i suppose if the the only loading screen is for zoning.   It appears the first launch of the game was really bad? So its much better now?

     

    Regards

    You can't gather and AOE down, AOE tank skills are either very high TP cost (warrior) or not strong enough to compare to AOE attacks from BLM or Archer.  If you try to just "gather and aoe" your DD are going to take aggro and way too much damage as even trash mobs can be lethal to non-tanks.

     

    It is more efficient for everyone to focus on one mob in the group at a time.

    With all the content available in the game currently, Flash is absolutely able to hold AoE aggro (as long as you stay alive as the tank, and you're actually hitting all targets with it). That's where proper positioning comes into player. I've even had a few linkshells in beta try and recruit me for my tanking, while I was just spamming flash & marking targets. Easy.

    With Marauder, you're right the TP cost is fairly high, however it also does a decent amount of damage compared to flash. Currently, you only AoE trash, so they tend to die before you run out of TP.

    And I agree, spamming Flash isn't necessarily a good way to tank, but that was kind of my point. Atm that's all that's required from dungeons. Spamming flash (and the sword slash that gives you MP) is enough to hold aggro for every single dungeon currently playable. I am hoping that the dungeons they add passed lvl 34 will be more demanding, but as none of us can play them yet, there's no way to comment on them.

    I'm not sure I would brag about random linkshells recruiting you in a beta.  It is not sufficient aggro because it does not produce as much enmity as even the first step in the Gladiator's 1st +enmity chain.  I realize that you held aggro, what you seem to not realize is that the DD were holding back to allow this.

     

    Due to the threat meter if a DD were to pull aggro it would be their fault, no matter how little enmity you are generating.  Just because you beat some introductory dungeons this way does not mean you were playing properly, it means that your group carried your poor play and adapted to it. 

     

    It is a praise of your group mates, the community and likely the duty finder.  But as I pointed out earlier that is how they are designed, to allow people like you to LEARN how to play without penalizing your group with denying them any progress in content that is supposed to be a teaching process (open to all, able to be done in a random group) not a rigorous test of your skills.  The purpose of the content is to teach people to group, and to get people interested in grouping so that they can put it to use for more difficult encounters.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Curt2013

    Geeze why would they add a threat meter, that kinda takes a little of the fun out of it.  Yes I usually prefer to play tanking classes, but I would prefer a game that didnt allow for such gather then aoe down. 

    Would be nice if the world was seemless but not too bad i suppose if the the only loading screen is for zoning.   It appears the first launch of the game was really bad? So its much better now?

    Regards

    Ya, the threat meter does kind of take some of the fun out of it. Yoshi P's really keen on making the game as accessible to everyone, and that's why it's been simplified in a lot of areas compared to FFXI.

    That said, the game is MUCH better than the original release of FFXIV. Not only is there more features, but the crafting has gotten a nice overhaul. They also reduced the reliance on leves heavily, and the addition of FATEs is pretty nice, though unexpected.

    They also fixed the zones so they aren't all copy+paste and feel a lot more unique.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by aesperus
    **snip for length**

    With all the content available in the game currently, Flash is absolutely able to hold AoE aggro (as long as you stay alive as the tank, and you're actually hitting all targets with it). That's where proper positioning comes into player. I've even had a few linkshells in beta try and recruit me for my tanking, while I was just spamming flash & marking targets. Easy.

    With Marauder, you're right the TP cost is fairly high, however it also does a decent amount of damage compared to flash. Currently, you only AoE trash, so they tend to die before you run out of TP.

    And I agree, spamming Flash isn't necessarily a good way to tank, but that was kind of my point. Atm that's all that's required from dungeons. Spamming flash (and the sword slash that gives you MP) is enough to hold aggro for every single dungeon currently playable. I am hoping that the dungeons they add passed lvl 34 will be more demanding, but as none of us can play them yet, there's no way to comment on them.

    I'm not sure I would brag about random linkshells recruiting you in a beta.  It is not sufficient aggro because it does not produce as much enmity as even the first step in the Gladiator's 1st +enmity chain.  I realize that you held aggro, what you seem to not realize is that the DD were holding back to allow this.

     You're right, the Gladiator's single-target attack chain does = higher emnity. However, as I stated repeatedly, it's not currently necessary. I've tested this with multiple group comps. Tested this with Archers (a class that's supposedly broken, when it comes to how much threat they generated), Lancers, THM's AoE nuking, and never any issues.

    - As for random linkshells complimenting my tank skills. I'm actually not trying to brag. I don't consider myself a good tank. It's not even my main class, I was just testing all classes during beta (war, magic, hand, & land). Which again, is my whole point. You don't NEED to be a good tank in this game to hold aggro and stay alive. It's just not that difficult, or demanding.

    Due to the threat meter if a DD were to pull aggro it would be their fault, no matter how little enmity you are generating.  Just because you beat some introductory dungeons this way does not mean you were playing properly, it means that your group carried your poor play and adapted to it. 

     Most players I found in beta, didn't even realize there was a threat meter in the game. It's fairly subtly slipped into the game, and many were surprised when I pointed it out. While you're technically right that a good DD should be watching that, that doesn't mean that most people actually are. Indeed I found that most groups (especially ones using the duty finder) didn't know what that meter was. They didn't pay attention to it if they did. And they just spammed whatever their highest damage attacks were over and over. Again, these 'introductory dungeons' are all that's available in the game. If you misunderstand my point, then please reread my post. I cannot comment on content not available in the game yet. None of us can. I can only comment on stuff I've played and tested. As I've mentioned. Repeatedly.

    It is a praise of your group mates, the community and likely the duty finder.  But as I pointed out earlier that is how they are designed, to allow people like you to LEARN how to play without penalizing your group with denying them any progress in content that is supposed to be a teaching process (open to all, able to be done in a random group) not a rigorous test of your skills.  The purpose of the content is to teach people to group, and to get people interested in grouping so that they can put it to use for more difficult encounters.

    - If you're trying to imply that the beta is more of a tutorial for the game. Then I seriously hope you're wrong. The current beta only goes up to lvl ~35, and there's only supposed to be 50 lvls in the released game. What's in the game is all people have to base it on. Logically it doesn't make to assume that the game will magically be different come release, which is more or less a month from now.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by aesperus
    **snip for length**

    With all the content available in the game currently, Flash is absolutely able to hold AoE aggro (as long as you stay alive as the tank, and you're actually hitting all targets with it). That's where proper positioning comes into player. I've even had a few linkshells in beta try and recruit me for my tanking, while I was just spamming flash & marking targets. Easy.

    With Marauder, you're right the TP cost is fairly high, however it also does a decent amount of damage compared to flash. Currently, you only AoE trash, so they tend to die before you run out of TP.

    And I agree, spamming Flash isn't necessarily a good way to tank, but that was kind of my point. Atm that's all that's required from dungeons. Spamming flash (and the sword slash that gives you MP) is enough to hold aggro for every single dungeon currently playable. I am hoping that the dungeons they add passed lvl 34 will be more demanding, but as none of us can play them yet, there's no way to comment on them.

    I'm not sure I would brag about random linkshells recruiting you in a beta.  It is not sufficient aggro because it does not produce as much enmity as even the first step in the Gladiator's 1st +enmity chain.  I realize that you held aggro, what you seem to not realize is that the DD were holding back to allow this.

     You're right, the Gladiator's single-target attack chain does = higher emnity. However, as I stated repeatedly, it's not currently necessary. I've tested this with multiple group comps. Tested this with Archers (a class that's supposedly broken, when it comes to how much threat they generated), Lancers, THM's AoE nuking, and never any issues.

    - As for random linkshells complimenting my tank skills. I'm actually not trying to brag. I don't consider myself a good tank. It's not even my main class, I was just testing all classes during beta (war, magic, hand, & land). Which again, is my whole point. You don't NEED to be a good tank in this game to hold aggro and stay alive. It's just not that difficult, or demanding.

    Due to the threat meter if a DD were to pull aggro it would be their fault, no matter how little enmity you are generating.  Just because you beat some introductory dungeons this way does not mean you were playing properly, it means that your group carried your poor play and adapted to it. 

     Most players I found in beta, didn't even realize there was a threat meter in the game. It's fairly subtly slipped into the game, and many were surprised when I pointed it out. While you're technically right that a good DD should be watching that, that doesn't mean that most people actually are. Indeed I found that most groups (especially ones using the duty finder) didn't know what that meter was. They didn't pay attention to it if they did. And they just spammed whatever their highest damage attacks were over and over. Again, these 'introductory dungeons' are all that's available in the game. If you misunderstand my point, then please reread my post. I cannot comment on content not available in the game yet. None of us can. I can only comment on stuff I've played and tested. As I've mentioned. Repeatedly.

    It is a praise of your group mates, the community and likely the duty finder.  But as I pointed out earlier that is how they are designed, to allow people like you to LEARN how to play without penalizing your group with denying them any progress in content that is supposed to be a teaching process (open to all, able to be done in a random group) not a rigorous test of your skills.  The purpose of the content is to teach people to group, and to get people interested in grouping so that they can put it to use for more difficult encounters.

    - If you're trying to imply that the beta is more of a tutorial for the game. Then I seriously hope you're wrong. The current beta only goes up to lvl ~35, and there's only supposed to be 50 lvls in the released game. What's in the game is all people have to base it on. Logically it doesn't make to assume that the game will magically be different come release, which is more or less a month from now.

    Not the beta, but introductory content surely is.  You played gladiator terribly, I'm sorry but that is all there to it.

     

    Your group mates were likely moaning to their friends about your play.  As a PGL or DRG you cannot even get off your full combo vs. a GLA spamming a flash without pulling aggro.

     

    Your DD would have to sit there and wait, not attacking, or switch to another target for a few attacks just so they didn't pull aggro off of you.  Forget about using damage buffs, or using up all of their TP in a fight.  That isn't enjoyable as a DD to be hampered by a bad tank and have to hold back barely doing anything just because someone is too lazy to use more than one ability.

     

    Your whole party was slowed down by your poor play.  That is punishment enough for your bad play.  Thankfully being introductory content they at least made some progress (plus they cleared the needed quest), however all of them would have been better off soloing if you are going to tank like that.    Dungeons are very good EXP if the group is playing well together and chaining mobs fast enough to get the max bonus, but when you don't try you are wasting their time (if they are there also for leveling).

     

    Please in the next beta try a little harder at your role, or play solo if you are going to (knowingly) play so poorly and drag the rest of your group down with you (who likely had no choice in grouping with you since you were probably playing via the duty finder).

     

    IMO they need to add the ability to put people on ignore cross-server, it would allow people to avoid griefers if they wanted (personally I don't use blacklists, but I have a lot of patience).  Learning the game is one thing, and no one needs to play "perfectly" in an introductory leveling dungeon.  However purposely sabotaging your group just so you can play lazily is not good for the community, and turns people off of systems like the duty finder.  When good players choose to avoid it because of this then those who have to rely on the duty finder to see content get a bad picture of what the community is really like.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by aesperus
    **snip**

    Not the beta, but introductory content surely is.  You played gladiator terribly, I'm sorry but that is all there to it.

    Let's try this again: "I agree that is a terrible way to play gladiator" That's right, I was agreeing with you on that! Now pay attention, because this is the important part of the conversation:

    It didn't matter one bit!

    Playing a terrible Gladiator made absolutely NO difference. NONE. When it came to holding aggro. And that is precisely the issue.

    Your group mates were likely moaning to their friends about your play.  As a PGL or DRG you cannot even get off your full combo vs. a GLA spamming a flash without pulling aggro.

     Again, I get you love to make assumptions about people. But it has nothing to do with this discussion. If it helps you sleep at night to pretend things about random people on a forum, then that's fine. But try and contribute to the discussion, please, or don't participate.

    ***snip***

    I get it, you think I'm a horrible player. We've established that. It's time to move on and start reading the topic at hand.

    I'll say it one last time, but re-read what I've posted. Not just this last post, but the the previous ones.

    The topic at hand has nothing to do with whether or not you think I'm a bad player. We're talking about game mechanics. Not your own personal assumptions about me.

    - And btw, did you ever stop and ask yourself why you find it so important to insult me? Rather than attempt an intelligent discussion? Are you that worried about this game that you feel the need to try and slander or insult anyone who criticizes it?

    I haven't insulted you at all during this discussion. I've made no attempts to assume what kind of person or player you are. I'm talking about the game here. I get that you take the game very seriously, and have some kind of personal investment in this title; but that doesn't mean that everyone feels the same. This is twice now that you've tried to insult me for helping to give accurate information to someone curious about the game.

    I've never said this game is bad, just that it's not perfect. Like any game, it has it's flaws, and there is absolutely no reason to pretend that those flaws don't exist. The game's still in beta, there's a phase 4 coming up. Hopefully most of this stuff will get resolved and become a non issue. Until then, we can't assume things will be there that don't exist.

    P.S. Here's an experiment for you. Next beta phase, try out a gladiator (or marauder). Equip some defensive skills / heals just incase you're about to die, and do the following. When you go into a dungeon (PUG it for all I care, doesn't matter), go in ahead of your group, round up all the enemies, and spam your AoE threat skill (and if you're a glad, alternate that w/ the sword skill that gives you MP). See how often you actually lose threat to your party members. If you're healer can't keep up w the damage, you have the cooldowns to help.

    And again, I KNOW it's not the best way to tank.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by aesperus
    **snip**

    Not the beta, but introductory content surely is.  You played gladiator terribly, I'm sorry but that is all there to it.

    Let's try this again: "I agree that is a terrible way to play gladiator" That's right, I was agreeing with you on that! Now pay attention, because this is the important part of the conversation:

    It didn't matter one bit!

    Playing a terrible Gladiator made absolutely NO difference. NONE. When it came to holding aggro. And that is precisely the issue.

    Your group mates were likely moaning to their friends about your play.  As a PGL or DRG you cannot even get off your full combo vs. a GLA spamming a flash without pulling aggro.

     Again, I get you love to make assumptions about people. But it has nothing to do with this discussion. If it helps you sleep at night to pretend things about random people on a forum, then that's fine. But try and contribute to the discussion, please, or don't participate.

    ***snip***

    I get it, you think I'm a horrible player. We've established that. It's time to move on and start reading the topic at hand.

    I'll say it one last time, but re-read what I've posted. Not just this last post, but the the previous ones.

    The topic at hand has nothing to do with whether or not you think I'm a bad player. We're talking about game mechanics. Not your own personal assumptions about me.

    - And btw, did you ever stop and ask yourself why you find it so important to insult me? Rather than attempt an intelligent discussion? Are you that worried about this game that you feel the need to try and slander or insult anyone who criticizes it?

    I haven't insulted you at all during this discussion. I've made no attempts to assume what kind of person or player you are. I'm talking about the game here. I get that you take the game very seriously, and have some kind of personal investment in this title; but that doesn't mean that everyone feels the same. This is twice now that you've tried to insult me for helping to give accurate information to someone curious about the game.

    I've never said this game is bad, just that it's not perfect. Like any game, it has it's flaws, and there is absolutely no reason to pretend that those flaws don't exist. The game's still in beta, there's a phase 4 coming up. Hopefully most of this stuff will get resolved and become a non issue. Until then, we can't assume things will be there that don't exist.

    P.S. Here's an experiment for you. Next beta phase, try out a gladiator (or marauder). Equip some defensive skills / heals just incase you're about to die, and do the following. When you go into a dungeon (PUG it for all I care, doesn't matter), go in ahead of your group, round up all the enemies, and spam your AoE threat skill (and if you're a glad, alternate that w/ the sword skill that gives you MP). See how often you actually lose threat to your party members. If you're healer can't keep up w the damage, you have the cooldowns to help.

    And again, I KNOW it's not the best way to tank.

    It makes a ton of difference, the only reason your group mates didn't pull aggro was that they were holding back.

     

    That is the difference, you are handicapping them with your improper aggro management.  They just want to play and enjoy themselves, but they have to stop short of playing their roles as effectively as possible, because you only used one ability.

     

    For someone learning to tank it is excusable, but for you to knowingly hamper your group and then claim "it doesn't matter" when in fact they are forced to conform to your play is insulting to them.  It takes you what?  30 seconds to get a group as a tank in the duty finder, some of those poor DD you were paired with probably waited 10-20 min, or sometimes even as much as an hour.  Then they get in all excited to play a new dungeon, and oh great Mr. I only need flash because SE didn't make the dungeon hard enough is the tank. 

     

    Time to settle in for a dungeon run that will unnecessarily take 15 more minutes, and be about 15% as fun to play as a DD simply because someone wants to make a point about the "difficulty" using the one mechanic (aggro) that really only affects how much YOUR GROUP has to hold back.

     

    It is the equivelant of in FFXI if you were preventing your group from getting past chain 2, thus pretty much wasting their time as far as leveling goes.  Sure you "could do it", but most people wouldn't have the patience and would have kicked you especially after you explained to them that you knew how to play better but just didn't feel like you "needed to" because the crabs weren't hard enough.

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