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Why many adults need serious characters and game world they can identify with.

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  • wesmowesmo Roswell, GAPosts: 60Member
    Originally posted by Suraknar
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Saxx0n
    Most adults wouldn't even create or post in a thread like this.

    Which is probably why I had to start the thread, so its not all one sided.  Earlier the pole showed of all the eq players on mmorpg who voted 1/3 of them are not going to play eq next as it sits right now, thats 33%. 

    Most people who started playing eq were in thier teens, and are now adults, and make up the player base of EQ franchise.

     

    Ya, but I don't think most of that 33% suffer from depression. Or maybe they do, I don't know.

    Regardless, you should check out Elder Scrolls Online. That has a more dark and serious look to it. Not to mention Age of Conan which is already out. And the Secret World.

    That is a god idea actually I just watched this...


    http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/08/02/the-elder-scrolls-online-gameplay-quakecon-2013

    I think the OP will like this...

    I do not, I find it too Dark.

    Compared to the EQN videos I have been exposing myself in the past two days I would not be able to play elder scrolls with that darkness in to it. I like the art style of EQN much.

    It feels like a Fantasy world, and I think it fits it because it is supposed to be Fantasy.

    And I was a young adult when I started playing UO so... sorry for not fitting to your adult definition of preference here either OP... XD

     

     

    Ugly models, depressing environment, ugly combat moves, ugly horse movements. Dang, and people play this because nostalgia? Freaking emo gamers  lol

  • KrimzinKrimzin Fort Worth, TXPosts: 545Member Uncommon

    [quote] I'm 31, life isn't all puppies and rainbows.[/b][/quote]

    Depends on who you are. My life is all about puppies..

    image

    Life is good.

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


    It's an Orange thing
  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon

    I lol'd and my face didn't break!

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon

    I hate people who post well to bad this games not for you so go find one you do like but that being said... if you cant stand looking at your avatar and that is the start of what makes game play work for you. Well that leaves very little options. They were very clear why they picked this art style. Mostly it is the level of graphics that can handle everything else going on in the game as things blow up. Also it works very well with the tech they have that puts your expression in RL on your avatars face. 

    So this was not done to target kids as young and old play games like WoW that have a cartoony art style. The FACT is, if the game play is awesome and the combat is awesome and the other prats of the game like crafting, PvP etc are awesome. The game will do well. Look at the lego games, graphics did not sell a single game there. They were just fun to play.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Antarious

    Eh... You know in EQ1 I had this beastlord.   I used to really roleplay on him a lot and it was probably one of the few times I got that in depth with a character.

     

    So I will admit seeing the Lion King running around... kind of put me off.   However, I will just play a different race as the others didn't look so bad to me.   Altho I am not a very serious person so perhaps the Lion King will be a good one for me.   Especially since I can just lounge around in town while the females go out and hunt....

    Or you could play as one of the females.  Although these could just be alpha/beta models.  Remember the Sylvari in GW2?  They underwent a big design change between the initial announcement and the release.  Same for the Ferres in Archeage, numerous races in WoW, the Asmodions in Aion, etc.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
     
    The problem I have with that kind of Disney-like characters is that i associate them with a certain type of setting and storytelling. The storytelling in Disney movies is schmaltzy and shallow at the same time. It is not that they are always only funny, they often touch on serious topics like death and loss but they do it in a really shallow way. They tend to never really explore into it, instead they immediately glaze over it with a jolly song or a comedic relief. 
    The main characters in Disney movies always have this kind of bipolar personality. They are hyper emotional and swing back and forth between deep sadness and friskiness. 
    Disney films are the quintessential happy-end-movies. Nothing ever really has bad consequences, there always is a easy solution, and good always triumphs above evil. The movies are hammering down a "you can do it and look forward not backward"-message. While this may be empowering to kids, it is not serious storytelling, and I don't want that kind of flavor in my games. 
     
    I must admit this is also a gender specific thing. Disney movies are pretty much targeted towards girls. There are almost no appealing male characters. Most times males just have great hair. 
    Boys like power fantasies, badass guys that do badass things, and Disney movies don't deliver that. Ok you have Aladdin and Hercules, but they are not what boys like to identify with. 
     
    I can't identify with Disney characters and they stand for schmaltzy storytelling. And if the story is in fact not schmaltzy but serious this will cause some kind of cognitive dissonance for me because I know that kind of character does not belong there. 
     
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    I guess I don't get it.

    A company introduces a product idea and significant number of current and previous users have expressed unhappiness with the new version.

    In the world of products this happens all the time.

    Companies who are still formulating the design of their product have two choices......ignore the dissatisfaction.....or redesign

    products can not be all things to all people....MR Smedley has some decisions to make

    We as gamers have helped him see the future....if he makes no decision.

  • ShezziShezzi Seattle, WAPosts: 126Member

    I'm in my forties, and am fine with the new graphics. I think they're timeless, refreshing and generationally inclusive rather than exclusive.

     

    I disagree with the premise of this thread.  When gaming, my game characters are about taking a break from reality, rather than being submerged in it. For a more realistic flair, there are games like Skyrim, and bloodier ones too depending on how gritty people like it. I like things a bit fluffy, and the new style will hopefully cater nicely to that.

     

    My husband and daughter are also keen to try EQNext. Agewise, my husband is in his fifties, and my daughter's in her 20's She actually dislikes realistic graphics entirely, more extreme than me I suppose.

     

    I think the new style is genius. As gaming populations get old, Sony has to ensure that younger players like my daughter like what they see. The animation isn't as young as Free Realms in spite of some commentary to that effect, and yet isn't as old and stodgy as games like EQ1, EQ2, etc.

     

    My daughter is a Psychology major student (in her last year) and would read plenty of intergenerational age prejudice into some of the wordsmithing in the art debate. Bad enough that she's always analyzing us without showing her this mess, there are times when we have to step lightly. :P

     

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    soooo, what the OP is saying here is that games should be less fun and more serious, because he is too adult for "child stuff" :)

     

     

    iiiiiii see what you do there.... rest didn't so far *G*

    if you want "serious" gaming.... errmmmmm.... yea... no idea what to say to that 

     

    "let's play hide and seek! but the mature version here plox! the normal one is so childish and i am waaaaay to old for kidsplay!"

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • BlakkrskyrrBlakkrskyrr Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 230Member

    get happy.  stop being so depressing.  I'm sure there will be serious undertones to certain character creation options.  More creases and wrinkles on the faces, and grey hair.  I'm 22 and still in touch with my inner child.  Maybe you should share the load, as Sam Gamgee said, and maybe become a little more innocent, and believe that there is some good in this world, and that it's worth fighting for.  Disney or PIxar like character models can be fun, especially if you want to make a Flynn Rider character.  I call it!

    image

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVeCOqm22M

  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Saxx0n
    Most adults wouldn't even create or post in a thread like this.

    Which is probably why I had to start the thread, so its not all one sided.  Earlier the pole showed of all the eq players on mmorpg who voted 1/3 of them are not going to play eq next as it sits right now, thats 33%. 

    Most people who started playing eq were in thier teens, and are now adults, and make up the player base of EQ franchise.

     

    And that number is jaded as hell.   It is a F2P game, so you create an account and try it.  Bam.  Every single person who has the smallest desire that they want to play it will at least try it.

     

    As for your original post, I have no idea what you posted.  I can't imagine living a life to where you can't be happy.  I could be dying and my whole world falling apart (kids getting some kind of terminal illness about the only thing I can see making that happen) but you sure in the hell bet I'll still crack a smile and be happy.  Be more optimistic.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • BlakkrskyrrBlakkrskyrr Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 230Member
    Originally posted by Antarious

    Eh... You know in EQ1 I had this beastlord.   I used to really roleplay on him a lot and it was probably one of the few times I got that in depth with a character.

     

    So I will admit seeing the Lion King running around... kind of put me off.   However, I will just play a different race as the others didn't look so bad to me.   Altho I am not a very serious person so perhaps the Lion King will be a good one for me.   Especially since I can just lounge around in town while the females go out and hunt....

     

    lounging on a rug and roar, "BRING ME FOOD WOMAN!!"

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,552Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanio

    The industry is chasing console gamers, have been for the last decade and it's showing in all of our modern MMOs.  Complex, PC oriented MMOs are probably going extinct after Final Fantasy XIV.  Action combat, 6 ability hotbars, cheesy graphics that only a console video card could love, simplistic, twitchy / arcadish gameplay, dumbing down if not outright removal of the need to think or do puzzles or frankly, much of anything outside of combat.  This is the future I'm seeing unfolding right in front of me and I find myself getting really sad.

    Are GW2 and Neverwinter targeting consoles?  Final Fantasy XIV is on consoles, so was Final Fantasy 11 for the past 10 years. Cheesy graphics? The Division and Destiny, mmos that are coming to consoles have the most realistic graphics I've seen in the genre. Planetside 2 is coming to PS4 also with max settings and 2000 players on map.  In fact majority of the console market appeal to the games with the most realistic graphics like Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Splinter Cell, Gears of War, Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, i could go on.  The game portal a puzzle game happen to be very popular, same for Zelda on consoles. And on top of that there plenty of indie puzzle games that are becoming popular on consoles, games like Flower and Journey.  Little Big Planet is big and thats a very creative game.

    PC gamers love twitchy arcadish gameplay just as much otherwise games like unreal tournament and quake wouldnt have been so popular.  In fact consoles slowly adopt whats been popular on PCs.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    I can see somewhat where the OP is coming from.  I've tried to spark up conversations around here about adult-targeted MMOs.  My line of thinking was around modeling a game that was basically "rated R" in style and content.  Even most rated Mature games these days are pretty tame, such as The Secret World.

    Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies had drug use (Spice) for buffs, and you would even come down, and your character would emote puking.  That's considered pretty hardcore by today's standards, and they pulled it out of the NGE.  Pipeweed smoking in LOTRO is too.  

    http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Spices

    MMOs just cost so much to make that it's prohibitive to deal with a niche market like "adult gamers who want a truly rated-R style game".   Then again, when you look at games like GTA, the market for such a thing may be bigger than anyone knows. Trouble is getting a developer to take the leap.

    As far as graphics in EQN go, well, I still believe that the procedural generated land and assets dictated to some extent what the art was going to have to look like.  The character's overall art matches the world right now, though I don't see why that had to limit having some mean looking characteristics to harden them up a little.

    Really we don't know yet.  We have an idea what they look like, but we haven't see a character generator.  This is one of those issues that I would be sure to provide feedback about and get the player base to rally around it, because it wouldn't be hard for SOE to at least make sure we can make some mean looking cartoonish-style characters.  I know this isn't what the OP wants, but unless there is a MASSIVE outcry about the current models, they likely won't do much about them before release.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • neurojameneurojame Bloomington, INPosts: 26Member

    In general I'm a fairly happy person. But in my MMO I don't want to play a character that looks like a cartoon.

     

    I understand that the enlarged facial features may make it easier to see emotions and I understand the uncanny valley arguement. But this games facial features go so far back off from the realistic side of uncanny valley that they have fallen right off of  cartoon gulch.

     

    This game will be successfull. But it would be more successfull if they changed the facial features.

     

    If you can't relate to your avatar then this is a major immersion breaker.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    I just nver got the whole argument of art style. Not that it is more 'cartoony' I suppose 'less realistic' but how people can have the mentality its 'disney' or 'childish'. Don't know, to me people who have that mind set are very childish themselves. If you think that an art style suddenly makes things child like and can't be adult, watch the move Up. Go ahead, watch it and return to me after. Sure the first 10 minutes alone could work plenty for that but go see the whole movie.

     

     

     

     

    ... Keep watching it, I'll wait and continue after you finish...

     

     

     

     

    ...Yeah, there hasn't been a "mature" movie that tugged at your heart so much as up huh? "Depressing" huh, yet managed to give a more upbeat and sure tear jerking but happy moment at the end? Amazing how a movie can reach not only children, but adults and do so far better then any "mature" movie has done lately with gritty scenes and 'adult' content? Its fine for you not to like an art style, trust me, its not a big deal. Its when you throw it instantly into being 'childish' or 'for kids' that you really are stepping out of line and it feels more as if you are trying to fight desperately to say you are 'grown up', like a tween does trying to disassociate themselves from cartoons even if they do use to love them to be 'cool' and 'older'.

    Don't like it for being more 'cartoon like' but NEVER EVER associate it with being childish. That in itself is a childish way to handle things.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kilun
    Originally posted by fistorm
    Originally posted by Saxx0n
    Most adults wouldn't even create or post in a thread like this.

    Which is probably why I had to start the thread, so its not all one sided.  Earlier the pole showed of all the eq players on mmorpg who voted 1/3 of them are not going to play eq next as it sits right now, thats 33%. 

    Most people who started playing eq were in thier teens, and are now adults, and make up the player base of EQ franchise.

     

    And that number is jaded as hell.   It is a F2P game, so you create an account and try it.  Bam.  Every single person who has the smallest desire that they want to play it will at least try it.

     

    As for your original post, I have no idea what you posted.  I can't imagine living a life to where you can't be happy.  I could be dying and my whole world falling apart (kids getting some kind of terminal illness about the only thing I can see making that happen) but you sure in the hell bet I'll still crack a smile and be happy.  Be more optimistic.

    That number is also small.

    EQ at it's highest point had 450,000 subscribers.

    Assuming 100% of the player base was polled (which of course, didn't happen): 33% is 148,500 people.

    Now, that's not really a small number, but at the same time I really doubt EQN was designed to cater to 150k people. That would be financial ruin. So when you see people say, "SOE is turning off A LOT of people with their aesthetic." or "ALL my friends hate it." Well that may be the case, 150k is a lot of people and all of your friends may hate it, but you're still the minority by a fair margin.

    Not only does SOE have the remaining 66%, but they also have new players who didn't play EQ and currently play MMOs - which is in the millions. So even if they grab a small fraction of those available players, it'll still be more than the 33% of original EQers.

  • diabeldiabel KoszalinPosts: 26Member
    Maybe it's just me but your logic is flawed so i stopped reading. You lost me at LOTRO's realistic graphics... Did we play the same game? Maybe you played some moody adult version that I havn't heard of?
  • neurojameneurojame Bloomington, INPosts: 26Member

    Puritzul- "Amazing how a movie can reach not only children, but adults and do so far better then any "mature" movie has done lately with gritty scenes and 'adult' content? Its fine for you not to like an art style, trust me, its not a big deal."

     

    I agree that you can have empathy for characters whether its in a cartoon or not. Overall I think that the artwork in the environment is beautiful. Everquest landmark is also a fantastic idea. Everquest next will be successful .But the avatar that you make has to be something you can relate to.

     

    I can watch 'Up' and be emotionally moved by the characters. Do I want the character that I play for hundreds of hours to look like the grandpa from up?... I dont think so.

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