Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

This game has too many unresolved issues.

12467

Comments

  • CalamarCalamar IgualadaPosts: 116Member
    Originally posted by Sajman01
    Do you guys that want the old trinity system play tanks or healers?

    Well, I loved playing my  Chanter (EQ) and my Coercer (EQ2), heavy focused CC classes that worked really well with a trinity system.

    Lately what I enjoy playing are healers (either in pve or pvp).

    Never liked playing a pure DPS class, I find them boring.

    The thing is, talking about my previous expectations,  my Hope was that EQ next would bring back roles like CC, buffer and debuffer to the trinity.

    How wrong I was O.o.

    Not going to trash/praise  EQNext/SOE until I can see the full thing working but what I have seen by now   has been a letdown for me.

  • CelciusCelcius Posts: 1,001Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Antarious
    Originally posted by Telondariel

     

    Class Panel part 2

     

    Forward to 13:30 and then 19:18

     

    You can't get any clearer than that to dispel the misinformation that is running rampant here.

     

     

     

    Thank you for posting that.   Its kind of sad that you have to post that... and it is very clear what they are trying to do and why.. even how.    Its amazing how many threads are in this forum... that simply ignore the fact that this data is out there.

     

    Again.. thank you for posting that.

    You are very welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, not everyone had the chance or the time to see the panels being streamed.  A lot of people just come here or elsewhere to read the forums with the expectation of getting real information.  Then, they are met with multiple threads created by people who are not doing the community any good whatsoever by spreading blatant, intentional, misinformation. 

     

    As you can see, the real information is out there and it is very much the opposite of what is being reiterated here as fact.

    Honestly I think this was the biggest misstep so far. The basic premise is clear of what they want to accomplish, but the messaging is breaking down currently. I am sure it will clear up over time and we will get a much more defined idea of what the systems actually entail. I actually watched the panels and am still somewhat unclear on a lot of things. A lot of people are complaining that they did not talk about crafting or pvp, but tbh I am glad they didn't. I could only imagine how complex those systems are if the ones they mentioned are this complex. Hopefully they can express the details of these systems further before overwhelming everyone.

    This was a challenge that GW2 faced very much so and I believe still faces on some levels to this day. It really is hard to explain change to people, especially when we have nothing to base the concepts on other then stuff we are used to, so it is easy to speculate and make assumptions. 

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,763Member Uncommon
    The "everyone is DPS" response is what al lthe non trinity games say.....True MMORPGs are pretty much gone at this point.....I agree though taht this game has alot of things to patch up before it launches.....Right now I am not liking what I am hearing as a former EQ player.
  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Antarious
    Originally posted by Telondariel

     

    Class Panel part 2

     

    Forward to 13:30 and then 19:18

     

    You can't get any clearer than that to dispel the misinformation that is running rampant here.

     

     

     

    Thank you for posting that.   Its kind of sad that you have to post that... and it is very clear what they are trying to do and why.. even how.    Its amazing how many threads are in this forum... that simply ignore the fact that this data is out there.

     

    Again.. thank you for posting that.

    You are very welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, not everyone had the chance or the time to see the panels being streamed.  A lot of people just come here or elsewhere to read the forums with the expectation of getting real information.  Then, they are met with multiple threads created by people who are not doing the community any good whatsoever by spreading blatant, intentional, misinformation. 

     

    As you can see, the real information is out there and it is very much the opposite of what is being reiterated here as fact.

    the highlighted bit is what concerns me the most. you have people who, if not willfully lying, are willfully not paying attention. they don't want answers they want their initial gut reaction to EQN to be right.

    i can respect differences of opinion and interpretation, but not this.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    check wow ! one thing I hated as a tank in pvp !you cannot use the tank skill to agro foe !so you meet swifty you cannot taunt him toward you?why put a freaking skill that is only usable in pve ! I always hated these skill ! me I say if a skill cant be put in pvp ?don't put it in the game at all period !
  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    as for the info, I t is all avail on everquestnext!
  • vorpal28vorpal28 MIddlesbroughPosts: 103Member

    Don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but I see alot of people complaining about that fact it has 8 skill buttons, for the uninformed original EQ only had 8 skill buttons to (for casters) and if my memory serves me correctly the same for combat skills (although you could click the arrow to to get more)

     

    It meant that you had to make hard choices as to what to have available to you, I know it meant you had to have SKILL to play and not just smash buttons...

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Antarious
    Originally posted by Telondariel

     

    Class Panel part 2

     

    Forward to 13:30 and then 19:18

     

    You can't get any clearer than that to dispel the misinformation that is running rampant here.

     

     

     

    Thank you for posting that.   Its kind of sad that you have to post that... and it is very clear what they are trying to do and why.. even how.    Its amazing how many threads are in this forum... that simply ignore the fact that this data is out there.

     

    Again.. thank you for posting that.

    You are very welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, not everyone had the chance or the time to see the panels being streamed.  A lot of people just come here or elsewhere to read the forums with the expectation of getting real information.  Then, they are met with multiple threads created by people who are not doing the community any good whatsoever by spreading blatant, intentional, misinformation. 

     

    As you can see, the real information is out there and it is very much the opposite of what is being reiterated here as fact.

    Honestly I think this was the biggest misstep so far. The basic premise is clear of what they want to accomplish, but the messaging is breaking down currently. I am sure it will clear up over time and we will get a much more defined idea of what the systems actually entail. I actually watched the panels and am still somewhat unclear on a lot of things. A lot of people are complaining that they did not talk about crafting or pvp, but tbh I am glad they didn't. I could only imagine how complex those systems are if the ones they mentioned are this complex. Hopefully they can express the details of these systems further before overwhelming everyone.

    This was a challenge that GW2 faced very much so and I believe still faces on some levels to this day. It really is hard to explain change to people, especially when we have nothing to base the concepts on other then stuff we are used to, so it is easy to speculate and make assumptions. 

    You've hit the nail on the head.

     

    See, the MMO community has been  stagnating for years.  Everyone knows that.  The boredom of cookie-cutter clones being pumped out one after another for 8 years has reached its peak of tolerance.  How many threads on this site alone have been created on the topic revolving around needed change of the current MMO system.

     

    Well, now someone made one!  Its different, yes, and the concepts are complex and need more time for elaboration.  What happened this last weekend was just the black box being opened:  an introduction of some of the core components.  In the Q&A, Dave and Dev's bring this up clearly.  A lot more information is going to come out, with entire chunks of it being dedicated to crafting and PvP, amongst other topics.

     

    Its going to take time for people to get their head around some of what EQN proposes.  They aren't doing what has been done for the last 15 years anymore.  That concept alone is fundamentally huge.

     

    Its important, IMHO, given the information that we do have, to correct and counter the people here who are actively misinforming the people who need accurate quotes from the EQN team.  It builds a better, informed community.

    image
  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
         There is NOTHING new with action based twitch combat.. It's been done recently by a number of companies and NONE of them are Earth movers and shakers.. Every single action game has evolved into dps zerg fights for the most part..  To deny that is just denial to one self and others.. We'll see if EQN falls in line in being the next dps ZergQuest ..
  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by aspekx
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by Antarious
    Originally posted by Telondariel

     

    Class Panel part 2

     

    Forward to 13:30 and then 19:18

     

    You can't get any clearer than that to dispel the misinformation that is running rampant here.

     

     

     

    Thank you for posting that.   Its kind of sad that you have to post that... and it is very clear what they are trying to do and why.. even how.    Its amazing how many threads are in this forum... that simply ignore the fact that this data is out there.

     

    Again.. thank you for posting that.

    You are very welcome!

     

    Unfortunately, not everyone had the chance or the time to see the panels being streamed.  A lot of people just come here or elsewhere to read the forums with the expectation of getting real information.  Then, they are met with multiple threads created by people who are not doing the community any good whatsoever by spreading blatant, intentional, misinformation. 

     

    As you can see, the real information is out there and it is very much the opposite of what is being reiterated here as fact.

    the highlighted bit is what concerns me the most. you have people who, if not willfully lying, are willfully not paying attention. they don't want answers they want their initial gut reaction to EQN to be right.

    i can respect differences of opinion and interpretation, but not this.

    Yes, it's highly counter productive.  There is nothing wrong with healthy debate and having a counter opinion-- that's what these forums are for.  However, there is a small handful of people that have crossed that line and are willfully creating pollution here.  Thankfully, there are built-in tools here to control them.  Also, its important to post accurate information to counter them.  Eventually they will just dwindle away and disappear.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,122Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bexinh
    This is exactly what i concern. No level ok but no tanks or heals its gonna be disaster. Imagine u wear heavy metal armor and casting fire balls, or everyone just go range dps and screw melee. Oh oh... so we can ping pong the boss from 1 side to the other. And there goes my last hope of MMO. Havent played any game for months and hoping for EQN to bring back my memory i will stay buy and play it give it a fair go but... we just gonna have to wait and see

    That's just it, armor and healing can't mean anything in an action game unless everyone can use them and if everyone can use them, then the content is adjusted for it and you're stuck with doing damage, running away for a few seconds to avoid red area, then run back in and do damage, back and forth ad nauseum.  It really promotes self preservation and takes away from team tactics and turns everything into "simon says".  For me, it becomes exhausting, frustrating and is the reason why I fled from arcade games to RPGs and avoid console games like the plague.

    image
  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         There is NOTHING new with action based twitch combat.. It's been done recently by a number of companies and NONE of them are Earth movers and shakers.. Every single action game has evolved into dps zerg fights for the most part..  To deny that is just denial to one self and others.. We'll see if EQN falls in line in being the next dps ZergQuest ..

    Has it been done in a sandbox mmorpg before? If so please enlighten me. Because last time I checked all the sanbox mmorpgs I've played in the past used the traditional mmo mechanics and they were all zerg fights... There was no holy trinity, so try again.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by bexinh
    This is exactly what i concern. No level ok but no tanks or heals its gonna be disaster. Imagine u wear heavy metal armor and casting fire balls, or everyone just go range dps and screw melee. Oh oh... so we can ping pong the boss from 1 side to the other. And there goes my last hope of MMO. Havent played any game for months and hoping for EQN to bring back my memory i will stay buy and play it give it a fair go but... we just gonna have to wait and see

    That's just it, armor and healing can't mean anything in an action game unless everyone can use them and if everyone can use them, then the content is adjusted for it and you're stuck with doing damage, running away for a few seconds to avoid red area, then run back in and do damage, back and forth ad nauseum.  It really promotes self preservation and takes away from team tactics and turns everything into "simon says".  For me, it becomes exhausting, frustrating and is the reason why I fled from arcade games to RPGs and avoid console games like the plague.

    You're still looking at this from a themepark perspective. Those roles and mechanics may not be optimum for themepark based progression like raids or dungeons but then again this isn't a themepark mmorpg. GW2's problem was they took a traditionally themepark system, like the holy trinity, and turned it on it's head without thinking through how to handle the gameplay elements that allowed it to thrive, namely raids and dungeons.

     

    But in the case of EQN this is a sandbox mmorpg and the semi-action based mechanics may actually work in this setting. The only people that seem to have issue are those programed to think a themepark progression based way is the only way. I say wait for the gameplay elements to surface to see how their combat system can deal with it before condemning it.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • DSWBeefDSWBeef phoenix, AZPosts: 791Member
    It astounds me how you vets which are probably 25+ act like such children. Weve seen extremely small tidbits of pre alpha gameplay, and NOTHING on how monster AI works. You all jump to conclusions and spout such garbage as "GW2 CLONE LULZ FAIL, MINECRAFTQUEST LOLOLOLOL", ect ect. Im not saying that I dont have my own concerns but I dont become a 5 year old voicing them.

    Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
    Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,122Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by bexinh
    This is exactly what i concern. No level ok but no tanks or heals its gonna be disaster. Imagine u wear heavy metal armor and casting fire balls, or everyone just go range dps and screw melee. Oh oh... so we can ping pong the boss from 1 side to the other. And there goes my last hope of MMO. Havent played any game for months and hoping for EQN to bring back my memory i will stay buy and play it give it a fair go but... we just gonna have to wait and see

    That's just it, armor and healing can't mean anything in an action game unless everyone can use them and if everyone can use them, then the content is adjusted for it and you're stuck with doing damage, running away for a few seconds to avoid red area, then run back in and do damage, back and forth ad nauseum.  It really promotes self preservation and takes away from team tactics and turns everything into "simon says".  For me, it becomes exhausting, frustrating and is the reason why I fled from arcade games to RPGs and avoid console games like the plague.

    You're still looking at this from a themepark perspective. Those roles and mechanics may not be optimum for themepark based progression like raids or dungeons but then again this isn't a themepark mmorpg. GW2's problem was they took a traditionally themepark system, like the holy trinity, and turned it on it's head without thinking through how to handle the gameplay elements that allowed it to thrive, namely raids and dungeons.

     

    But in the case of EQN this is a sandbox mmorpg and the semi-action based mechanics may actually work in this setting. The only people that seem to have issue are those programed to think a themepark progression based way is the only way. I say wait for the gameplay elements to surface to see how their combat system can deal with it before condemning it.

    Combat mechanics have nothing to do with themepark or sandbox.  Progression exists in either setting.  You can't balance action combat the same way you can with tab target combat.

    image
  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Rydeson
         There is NOTHING new with action based twitch combat.. It's been done recently by a number of companies and NONE of them are Earth movers and shakers.. Every single action game has evolved into dps zerg fights for the most part..  To deny that is just denial to one self and others.. We'll see if EQN falls in line in being the next dps ZergQuest ..

    Has it been done in a sandbox mmorpg before? If so please enlighten me. Because last time I checked all the sanbox mmorpgs I've played in the past used the traditional mmo mechanics and they were all zerg fights... There was no holy trinity, so try again.

    WHAT?    The style of combat has nothing to do with whether a game is theme park or sandbox..... You can have trinity (roles) in both , and you can have twitch in both... I fail to see what you're trying to discuss..

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by bexinh
    This is exactly what i concern. No level ok but no tanks or heals its gonna be disaster. Imagine u wear heavy metal armor and casting fire balls, or everyone just go range dps and screw melee. Oh oh... so we can ping pong the boss from 1 side to the other. And there goes my last hope of MMO. Havent played any game for months and hoping for EQN to bring back my memory i will stay buy and play it give it a fair go but... we just gonna have to wait and see

    That's just it, armor and healing can't mean anything in an action game unless everyone can use them and if everyone can use them, then the content is adjusted for it and you're stuck with doing damage, running away for a few seconds to avoid red area, then run back in and do damage, back and forth ad nauseum.  It really promotes self preservation and takes away from team tactics and turns everything into "simon says".  For me, it becomes exhausting, frustrating and is the reason why I fled from arcade games to RPGs and avoid console games like the plague.

    So, you have a time machine and played EQN, then came back to tell us how will play like? 

     

    The problem with making assumptions like this, is that they are based off of negative personal experiences and bias.  The Dev team has been actively playing games like GW2 and NW to see what is wrong with those systems and improve on them.  You can find that info in this Class Panel.

    image
  • LizardEgyptLizardEgypt Yarmouth, NSPosts: 337Member
    For everything really good about EQN I find something equally horrible. I for one am really positive about their decision to focus on the world and trying to make content in dynamic cycles and systems rather than fully scripted, but at the same time I feel like part of the audience they are trying to hit would still be content with standard scripted raid style gameplay if done RIGHT. A lot of the industry's current complaints isn't necessarily about what the developers are doing, but rather how poor or how faceroll the content ends up being. In the case of EQN, I sense a great deal of exciting exploration that ends up leading to relatively unrewarding content. We'll see. It's truly impossible to tell. As for lack of trinity; if you're going to have no group coordination (For the record, no one dislikes support roles, look at MOBA's for example. Total bullshit to assume no one likes playing support.) might as well not even have classes at all. 40 or so classes (Glorified skill bars?) limited to tiny amounts of abilities that don't really need to coordinate with each other isn't a proper design choice IMHO. Whatever though. They've pushed some interesting ideas and it seems like the project is very focused, but it's not really an everquest game. 

    Currently playing - FF14ARR
    Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    There are no unresolved issues...there is no game for there to be unresolved issues in yet.There are no details or facts to logically extrapolate any issues to resolve yet.

    The only unresolved issues are in people's minds right now.

  • PluppetsPluppets Black FlagPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by Mardy

    Weird how it was ok for people to speculate about what EQN for the past year or two, and nobody minded all the good things people dreamed up.  But now that people have seen a lil bit of the game, and SOE finally let the cat out of the bag, people can't seem to question things without being mocked.  I suppose imagination is only ok if people are saying what you want to hear.

     

    ^^^ x1,000,000 Internets

    I see equal share of the blame on the both the troll's AND the fanboy's side of the fence.

     

    "I hate it already"  //  "misinformation!  heresy! GTFO"

    "EQN is the new Jesus."  //  "I LIEK IT WHEN YOU AGREE WITH ME!"

     

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,399Member Uncommon
    The game hasn't even been released yet. Hell, the game hasn't even had the NDA lifted. Please stop the knee jerk reaction threads, they make you look ridiculous.
  • uidCausticuidCaustic acworth, GAPosts: 128Member

    They just announced beta sign ups and OP is soap boxing "unresolved issues"...

     

    This is why I hate gamers.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Watching the Q&A panel made me realise, as I suspected, that this team has no solution for the inherent problems of action combat that GW2 has.

    Someone asked the question how a lack of trinity, is going fix the issue of tanks and healers in the game, and how they are going to avoid the issues GW2 has. Their answer is simply:

    "Everyone is DPS"

    It's like they don't realise the issues with action combat or didn't anticipate these questions.

    I think this game is severely underdeveloped and they have no idea whatsoever on how to fix gameplay issues when they copy the action combat system and remove trinity and aggro.

    Let alone all the community and raid issues this system creates.

    The fact they said earlier in the video that they think having to rely on other classes in a raid is a bad system, but don't offer an alternative except making everyone DPS and removing tanks and healers, is staggering.

    It's completely mindboggling how this game that has more holes in their system than swiss cheese got "best MMORPG of E3"

    I completely agree and it seems so many people are on this cloud 9 hype / fanboi train that they can't even see how many issues there are.  Look at my post history before the reveal and see how excited I was, but I'm no spineless fanboi who just eats everything up with a spoon.  I could see plain as day how much of this game is still in theory mode and just on paper, and how a lot of it just doesn't seem to add up.  But whatever, let the people going ape shit over it have their fun.  What you didn't know knocking a wall over was changing the mmo genre completely?  This site and tentonhammer sure did.  :P

  • DeipherDeipher SOmewherePosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    I haven't seen a game yet, just mostly a concept on paper which is sounding ok and in some parts great to me. I will judge the game when we are able to play the public 'beta'.

    As for the mentioned potential issues by the OP, are just that. It is potentially a problem, depending on how you want to perceive their answers.

    If a developer says : we don't want you having to rely on other classes, it could mean :

    - there is no mandatory class needed for a raid, meaning most classes can spec themselves as different roles

    - there is no support class.

    - the groupcontent is just zerg (which GW2 dungeons are not, to use the OP's example)

    My impression is that they meant that there is no mandatory support class for group content. The oldschool healerclass that only watched hp bars is not going to be in EQNext. This doesn't mean that the old holy trinity setup is bad, it was just bad that this setup was locked into specific classes. Which became mandatory to have in your group for that reason. This posed to be a problem with forming groups in any MMO with healing classes I played. So I agree with their vision. But, it is still just on paper, who knows how it will be implemented.

    I am not a fan of GW2's combat either, but having no static holy trinity classes, is one of the things I like about GW2.

     

     

    That's so funny how people are complaining about things they don't know :)

    SoE said that there will be roles. If you want to tank you will able to and same as heal.

    And they also said that the support class will be welcomed in groups/raids too.

    You can play the role you want.  You guys are arguing based on your knowledge and experience of classic MMORPG. As they said the trinity rule is broken in this game, you should think in a whole different way.

     

    I suggest you guys stop complaining about assumptions and just wait for the game to go live. and LET US DREAM a little bit !!!!

     

    And please stop comparing this game to any other one. This one suggest a new kind of MMO. Gw2, WoW they are the old style MMORG. Try to think different.

    SoE has the best experience in MMORPG : Eq1, Eq2, UC, SWG .... You can at least trust in what they're doing.

  • DeipherDeipher SOmewherePosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn

    There are no unresolved issues...there is no game for there to be unresolved issues in yet.There are no details or facts to logically extrapolate any issues to resolve yet.

    The only unresolved issues are in people's minds right now.

    +1

     

    I totally agree.

Sign In or Register to comment.