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Well .. yet another nail in the p2p coffin .. even EQN is F2P

nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

I wonder how SOE is going to monetize though. No more levels and xp, so xp potion is out of the question.

Pets? Vanity items? A cut from player to player sales? (making a sword, and sell to another player for real money?)

The good news is that no matter what, now i don't have an excuse not to check it out. Most i can lose is what? 15 min?

Comments

  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member

    I tend to agree...

    This game had a few, not a great deal, but a small amount of features so far that is boosting up its potential. However, the moment I heard about the 'player run real cash' economy, I thought about D3, and how this will affect the overall game. If you've ever played Second Life, this is what EQNext is equating to. A Second Life 2, in a sense, except it's less complex and the creators hand everyone a dumbed down map on how to make their own stuff and try to profit. Throw into that, that it'll likely be F2P, and regardless P2P or F2P, SoE is known to ship out micro transactions even with a subscription fee. It's actually turning into a bit of a sick joke. I would've understood if they were a little more subtle, but they basically held out the sign of greed with this one. Landmark is causing so much hype, because it's 'so cool and involved'.

    Yes, because the creators don't want to build the rest of your world for you. So, they seem to be grabbing what they can and making a run without anyone noticing the reality of the situation. =/

     

    Oh.. and I'm wondering what keeps devs from making stuff and selling it on the market for profit. Use better tools to make something a lot more quickly, mass produce, and throw it on the market. Sneaky, right? I hope it's not the case, but I'll admit I'm curious..

  • kragekrage Miami, FLPosts: 419Member

    This is a good question, possibly the most real thing that can negatively affect the community aside from some disliking the aesthetics of the two character models we've seen.

    They will probably push the player forge hard for profit, plus a cash shop much like GW2 I assume. Instead of XP boosters they may have boosters for other things like a karma equivalent, or influence/rep with any factions. Hmm, I really dunno what else they can monetize, maybe a small subscription to rent a plot of land for housing or customizable instance? 

    I also fully expect SOE devs to create items for the player forge, it be great for the individual devs to earn some extra cash and create some high quality stuff. A win-win if you ask me.

    image
  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLPosts: 460Member

    it would also be another nail in the f2p coffin...I can only wonder how many f2p games, that wont  get any money from box sales or monthly subs, will see their playerbase leaving to play EQN when it gets released.

    basically a f2p with no players has never made any money at any point in its lifespawn. EQN will likely kill a decent chunk of F2P games 

     

    but....considering how restrictive the F2P model is/starts being for SOE games, I wouldnt wet my pants just yet guys

    I foresee oceans of tears from people realizing that their free game isnt actually free enough

     

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I wonder how SOE is going to monetize though. 

    to me its really simple. things SOE will charge for:

     

     

    all the classes except the starting 8

    raids

    top tier equipable items

    mastercraft level 

    etc

     

    in a nutshell: a glorified extended trial that you will have to pay for/sub to if you want to get any real juice out of it

  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member
    Originally posted by Sagasaint

    it would also be another nail in the f2p coffin...I can only wonder how many f2p games, that wont  get any money from box sales or monthly subs, will see their playerbase leaving to play EQN when it gets released.

    basically a f2p with no players has never made any money at any point in its lifespawn. EQN will likely kill a decent chunk of F2P games 

     

    but....considering how restrictive the F2P model is/starts being for SOE games, I wouldnt wet my pants just yet guys

    I foresee oceans of tears from people realizing that their free game isnt actually free enough

    Personally, I don't see this being the glory that it's trying to amount as being. This is SOE, and they wasted no time in reminded me of that fact on the 2nd. F2P games will still go on, and this will turn out just like the rest of them. I think it stands a chance, but only if they implement the concepts correctly, go P2P, and ditch the real life economy. However, I don't see that happening, so...

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    If PS2 is any indication of their cash shop expect this game to be a grind your eyeballs out or spend buckloads of money to be competitive.
    You can play decent with no money spend in PS2, but to get each and every unlock you need to play hardcore till the point you get burned out.

    I much prefer a sub, if only to keep most free loaders out of the game, not to mention bots.....
    Expect third party money grabbing site's clapping their hands already.

    There is nothing you can do to keep bots away from ruining your econemy, not even Blizzard could do it and at one point they banned thousand and thousands of bots only to see Blizzard gave up and dint care that much anymore.

    In free to play mmo's this is a tenfold more scary as it doesnt cost a dime to create accounts.

    SOE had major problems with PS2 where hackers wher just using twitch live to show how good their bots where and could hack for hours days or weeks without getting caught.


    I hope they are prepared to spend a big chunk of their revenue to tackle bots, or it might become the #1 problems that will haunt EQN.

  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLPosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    If PS2 is any indication 

     

    personally I think it wont be. I dont think they will monetize their last EQ as they did with their shooter...they probably monetize it as they did with their other EQs.

     

    that is, remarkably restrictive "free" gameplay.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I wonder how SOE is going to monetize though. 

    to me its really simple. things SOE will charge for:

     

     

    all the classes except the starting 8

    raids

    top tier equipable items

    mastercraft level 

    etc

     

    in a nutshell: a glorified extended trial that you will have to pay for/sub to if you want to get any real juice out of it

    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    I have no idea what this team is smoking.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member

    Is it just me? Or are these "P2P is dead" threads are about a year late?

    image
  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member

    While P2P may be on the way out, I don't think F2P is the best option.

    I hate playing an incomplete game; having to shell out money everytime you need bagspace not only brakes immersion, but feels like a complete rip-off.

    In my opinion, B2P would be best for us players in terms of what we get for our money, but sadly even consoles are doing F2P now ...

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    I wonder how SOE is going to monetize though. 

    to me its really simple. things SOE will charge for:

     

     

    all the classes except the starting 8

    raids

    top tier equipable items

    mastercraft level 

    etc

     

    in a nutshell: a glorified extended trial that you will have to pay for/sub to if you want to get any real juice out of it

    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    I have no idea what this team is smoking.

    Wow, you are wrong on everything you just said

    image
  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLPosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    then maybe restricted access to public events. or restrictions to do something meaningful or impactful during those events

    also, progression may not be thru equipment, but characters will certainly "gear up" somehow...whatever it is, expect to see the top tier being paid only

     

    another typical restriction could be limits to the amount of money a freeloader can hold, efectively barring them from ingame economy unless they resort to bartending or open their wallet...see escrow in DCUO

     

    but tbh, just the fact that all classes beyond the starting 8 are 99,99999999% likely offlimits should a total, absolute dealbreaker for most people...and for the few who can stomach that, restrictions to craftng levels in a sandbox game will probably do the trick

  • DeolusDeolus DoncasterPosts: 392Member

    This is the way I think they are going to make their money:

    They are giving us the tools to make our own items and structures i.e. Player Studio and EQN Landmark.

    We design the item / structure and submit it to SOE for approval.

    If it is approved it is added to the market as a template that players can buy. The original designer will get a % of the template's sale price.

    Player's search the market for the template for the item or structure they want and buy it. Each template has a resource cost associated with it.

    To make an item you need the template and the resources that go with it. Then use a crafting station to make it.

    To place a structure you need a template, the resource cost and a plot to build on. You then build the structure at your plot.

    You can use other players designs within your own designs. E.g. if someone designs a tower, you can buy the template for the tower and create your own castle using four towers and the rest of the castle would be your own design. If SOE approves your new design and it goes on the market, you would get a % of the market price, and the designer of the tower would also get a % of the market price.

    That is my take on how this is going to work.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    then maybe restricted access to public events. or restrictions to do something meaningful or impactful during those events

    also, progression may not be thru equipment, but characters will certainly "gear up" somehow...whatever it is, expect to see the top tier being paid only

     

    another typical restriction could be limits to the amount of money a freeloader can hold, efectively barring them from ingame economy unless they resort to bartending or open their wallet...see escrow in DCUO

     

    but tbh, just the fact that all classes beyond the starting 8 are 99,99999999% likely offlimits should a total, absolute dealbreaker for most people...and for the few who can stomach that, restrictions to craftng levels in a sandbox game will probably do the trick

    Ok so i didnt want to have to type all about the lies the guy you quoted is saying but its obvious we have people who dont read up on stuff.

     

    EQN will have raids.  They said it multiple times in interviews.  In the Q&A session they said they wanted to talk about raiding so bad but cant right now.  They ONLY thing about raids that not traditional that they did talk about was the combat.  Boss fights will never be a traditional "tank and spank" type encounter.

    As for the Gear?  Gear progression is there.  3 times specifically I can remember gear progression being talked about. 1st was about tiers.  There will be tiers of level difficulty and one way to get your toon ready for higher tiers is thru higher tierd gear.  2nd was about crafting.  Gear is important and crafters will be an important part in aquiring that gear.  The thirds was a dev specifically stated "The gear grind is in EQN, I love the gear grind and its in there".

    image
  • SagasaintSagasaint Miami, FLPosts: 460Member
    Originally posted by jerlot65
    Originally posted by Sagasaint
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    then maybe restricted access to public events. or restrictions to do something meaningful or impactful during those events

    also, progression may not be thru equipment, but characters will certainly "gear up" somehow...whatever it is, expect to see the top tier being paid only

     

    another typical restriction could be limits to the amount of money a freeloader can hold, efectively barring them from ingame economy unless they resort to bartending or open their wallet...see escrow in DCUO

     

    but tbh, just the fact that all classes beyond the starting 8 are 99,99999999% likely offlimits should a total, absolute dealbreaker for most people...and for the few who can stomach that, restrictions to craftng levels in a sandbox game will probably do the trick

    Ok so i didnt want to have to type all about the lies the guy you quoted is saying but its obvious we have people who dont read up on stuff.

     

    EQN will have raids.  They said it multiple times in interviews.  In the Q&A session they said they wanted to talk about raiding so bad but cant right now.  They ONLY thing about raids that not traditional that they did talk about was the combat.  Boss fights will never be a traditional "tank and spank" type encounter.

    As for the Gear?  Gear progression is there.  3 times specifically I can remember gear progression being talked about. 1st was about tiers.  There will be tiers of level difficulty and one way to get your toon ready for higher tiers is thru higher tierd gear.  2nd was about crafting.  Gear is important and crafters will be an important part in aquiring that gear.  The thirds was a dev specifically stated "The gear grind is in EQN, I love the gear grind and its in there".

    tyvm for the clarification, jerlot

    I repeat my previous points, then: raids (definetly) and the top tier gear (highly likely) will be subject to monetization

  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Sagasaint Originally posted by nariusseldon I wonder how SOE is going to monetize though. 
    to me its really simple. things SOE will charge for:     all the classes except the starting 8 raids top tier equipable items mastercraft level  etc   in a nutshell: a glorified extended trial that you will have to pay for/sub to if you want to get any real juice out of it
    They said there won't be standard raids, only public events. And they said characters won't gear up through gear.

    I have no idea what this team is smoking.


    I think they are making many many big mistakes.
    Public Events are more casual things then endgame contend.
    Public Events need to scale to the people present, and due to this they cant create contend that challange players as its always going to be how many people are present.
    You can spawn more mobs, you can give the boss more hitpoints, but you will never make it do to much damage as you cannot heal trough it with 50 random people around you and no dedicated healers.

    This is one of my biggest fears for EQN.....
    GW2 coulnt do it with their dynamic events, and Arenanet aint a bad studio....
    I have a realy hard time believing public events will be anything like EQ raids or WoW raids...


  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    If EQN has a sub like... well all the other SoE games it will be very much P2P for those that want the most the title can offer. Everyone wins though. Subs get the most options, free players get to enjoy it and shady "F2P gains x market share" articles can deceptively include EQN's numbers.

    Everyone's happy... well most people.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    As a side note... wow, so much misinformation on what is already limited info. Each of the panels are on YouTube now including the keynote and interviews. Anyone that has not seem them personally should check them out.
  • LithuanianLithuanian vilniusPosts: 205Member Uncommon

    Well, looks like they made a mistake.

    I am free player myself, spend no cash on MMORPGS (grind is not that bad after all...) - but what I can see is a failure. Failure to understand one simple fact: when all games were p2p, somebody tried f2p and won; then, every game went f2p with just few veterans remaining p2p.

    Solution? If devs asked me - I would advice: make subscription-only based with no ingame shop. In my opinion, it could be the best way to advertise game. You paid, you got: only stuff to be sold would be expansions. Be different from the crowd

    [offtopic] this is where CU is going to succeed[/offtopic]

  • SephastusSephastus New Brunswick, NJPosts: 448Member Uncommon

    Wow... so much misinformation on this thread alone...

     

    EQN is not "F2P"... it is a sub game with a limited "Free" trial. The limit, however, is not in a time, or level aspect, but instead in other aspects, which have yet to be stated.

     

    If you consider EQN F2P, then so is WoW, and many other games that have a "free" portion to them.

     

    Another method that EQN is going to monetize, will be through their "Player Studio". You and me make content for the game... be that a meticulously made castle, farm, catacomb, pool... you name it. They place this in "Player Studio", and those playing the actual game will pay station cash to buy said pre-built architecture. Sony gets parts of the proceeds, and you get the rest, for every purchase made. Make something really popular that people are willing to dish out real cash for? Then both you and Sony make money out of it. All they have to do is host what you made, and its win/win.

     

    And by all means, please check the game out... that is the entire reason for the Free trials. They are confident enough in their product that they can offer this. Heck, if good artistic tendencies, I welcome it. You will be paid for your services, and you might NEVER have to spend a single dime on the game, yet make tons of money from those of us that like your creations.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Sephastus

     

    EQN is not "F2P"... it is a sub game with a limited "Free" trial. The limit, however, is not in a time, or level aspect, but instead in other aspects, which have yet to be stated.

     

    You are the one giving out misinformation.  Here is what is said on the EQN OFFICIAL website.

    https://www.everquestnext.com/eqn-faq

    "EverQuest Next will join our family of free-to-play games. Learn more about SOE's free-to-play games here. We will announce plans for optional in-game purchases via the EverQuest Next Marketplace and Station Cash in the future."

    Don't tell me you think you know their business model better them themselves.

     

This discussion has been closed.